# Petition for an Ammo version with P83 instead of -none **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823 "2008-01-23T20:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/21 "2008-05-10T09:18:27Z")
> [@Mecca](#): > > what is the purpose of no none. Lets get back to biology 101 Testesterone is the male sex hormone. Without it men would be phenotypically women. No testosterone means womenhood by default. I jsut dont see the biology of it. Please explain sex without 🙂 🙂 testosterone, sexual or social aspect or not makes no sense. Well, you seem to forget that if you are a man you already produce androstenone naturally, right? 😉 The whole thought of an Ammo version with P83 instead of Androstenone was to provide a product for the ones that already produce so much androstenone naturally that they can’t use -none products… The P83 is meant to enhance the sexual factor provided by one’s own androstenone output… ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/22 "2008-05-10T09:21:09Z")
I think there might be a some confusion between testosterone, which is a hormone and androstenone, which is a pheromone. A very strong one at that. When ever you see -none, -rone, etc. it’s in reference to [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/), not hormones. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 9:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/23 "2008-05-10T09:28:14Z")
> [@data4](#): > > I think there might be a some confusion between testosterone, which is a hormone and androstenone, which is a pheromone. A very strong one at that. When ever you see -none, -Androsterone, etc. it’s in reference to pheromones, not hormones. > > -D4 You are right, but the two (androstenone and testosterone) are directly related, as androstenone is a metabolite (is this actually an english word? 😃) of testosterone… ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 10:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/24 "2008-05-10T10:19:10Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > You are right, but the two (androstenone and testosterone) are directly related, as androstenone is a metabolite (is this actually an english word? 😃) of testosterone… True. I was just looking at Mecca’s post and thought perhaps there was a misunderstanding. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![ntr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/898d66/32.png) [@ntr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ntr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/25 "2008-05-10T15:55:44Z")
I would like ammo to be offered without the added scent so I can mix it with my own cologne. ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/26 "2008-05-10T16:33:46Z")
> [@ntr](#): > > I would like ammo to be offered without the added scent so I can mix it with my own cologne. You can! Next time put a bottle of Ammo in your cart, then go to ‘Custom Additions’ -\> ‘Men’s Fragrance Customization’ and choose ‘Unscented’ and ‘Ammunition’. But it will cost 10$ more. ---
**Author:** ![ntr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/898d66/32.png) [@ntr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ntr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/27 "2008-05-10T20:23:19Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > You can! Next time put a bottle of Ammo in your cart, then go to ‘Custom Additions’ -\> ‘Men’s Fragrance Customization’ and choose ‘Unscented’ and ‘Ammunition’. But it will cost 10$ more. That’s good to know. I might do that next time I order. ---
**Author:** ![Mecca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e79b87/32.png) [@Mecca](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mecca)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/28 "2008-05-10T21:07:10Z")
pheromone or hormone. Both are truly related. Social mammals the alpha male have higher levels of testosterone and related higher none signature. One cannot be separated for another. The higher testosterone and none comes with a price. Testosterone levels which are high, is associated with higher metabolic rate and thus shorter life span. For instance, the younger lion which is hitting his prime with high testosterone usual oust the silver back older alpha male, and the hierachry is established via pheromone signature not, aggression. therefore the testosterone and none are related. the purpose of ammo is to elevate the none signature fooling the female that there is ahigher testosterone level.. just my two cents 🙂 🙂 🙂 in ammo we trust ---
**Author:** ![LaPew](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lapew/32/330_2.png) [@LaPew](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LaPew)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/29 "2008-06-28T06:42:26Z")
I’m still way too green to try this myself, but why don’t some of the advanced users try to concoct this themselves? The Androstenone in Ammo is 2.5mcg and the total pheromone content is 7.5mcg (+/- 5%) per spray. So all you have to do is figure out what the Androsterone and Alpha Androstenol ratio is plus the ideal amount of p83 needed to act as a Androstenone replacement. If this noob had to guess I’d bet they put in a slightly larger amount of A androstenol to act as a buffer. However this is only a hypothesis based on things I’ve read. (maybe incorrectly) ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/30 "2008-09-05T02:22:37Z")
Ummm try the new AMMO test pack and see what you think. You never know could be some [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) in one of those 🙂 Jazzy did mention that they want to release low or a no anone version of AMMO retail because its so volatile and hard to use if you dont understand mones. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![WildFlower](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wildflower/32/1260_2.png) [@WildFlower](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/WildFlower)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/31 "2008-09-05T21:25:58Z")
Trisha how does p83 make you feel compared to none? Does it cause arousal, attraction, interest like none does? The reactions I get from p83 are some of the most blatant of pheromone reactions I’ve seen but it’s hard to pin point how it’s making others feel. I can predict and see paterns in peoples behaviour when wearing it but I can’t grasp how it makes people feel. ---
**Author:** ![capone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/capone/32/587_2.png) [@capone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/capone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/32 "2008-09-06T02:46:25Z")
IMO it would be great to have some other product like Ammo but adding some p74+p83+betanol, but I suppose that’s whats the new mixes are about. Anyway I don’t think it would be appropiate to rip-off -none from that mix, but maybe lower the dose so we could use lots of sprays and get the positives of the other pheros(a-nol,b-nol,-rone,p-83,-p74 and those little secret components) without ODs ourselves with -none. I know Ammo is supposed to be a very well balanced mix and it would be difficult to find a balanced mix with those new pheros. Anyway I have always seen the 2.5mcg ratios in Ammo a little arbitrary and subliminally conditionated, it’s very curious that the perfect ratio is same quantity of -none, -ols, etc… but maybe it’s just a coincidence and those are perfect ratios (as many other products out there use more or less that ones). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/33 "2008-09-06T21:21:11Z")
Jasmin just dropped a hint over in the store feedback section that a [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) based test pack was in the pipeline so keep your eyes open if you are interested! I bet some reports on the P74 test pack would help move things along too! ---
**Author:** ![capone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/capone/32/587_2.png) [@capone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/capone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/34 "2008-09-06T22:44:54Z")
Maybe one of those p74 tests have p83 in it 0 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/35 "2008-11-27T01:58:25Z")
> [@renny](#): > > Jasmin just dropped a hint over in the store feedback section that a P83 based test pack was in the pipeline so keep your eyes open if you are interested! I bet some reports on the P74 test pack would help move things along too! Yes, the P83 dominant version was scheduled to come out after the P74 dominant version ran out. Unfortunately, it hasn’t run out yet or had a really thorough testing run. > **[Experimental Human Pheromones - Pheromone Labs](https://pheromonelabs.com/)** It’s been a loooonnng time since that came out. Testing on this pack has been some of the slowest I’ve ever seen. We now have about 12k active and semi-active users, yet testing was faster when Michael and I ran the forum and had just a few hundred testers. It’s kind of puzzling. So who knows what our next Ammo pack will be. We like being thorough, and making changes 1 at a time (even if some of those changes are extreme in nature) so we can understand what each variable did along the way. We don’t really have much time left to be as linear and methodical as we’d like when it comes to Ammo 2.0. So who knows what we’ll mix methodology or molecules we’ll feature in the next Ammo pack. At this rate, it looks like we’ll go for 5 to 7 of a _variety_ of more conservative mixes, instead of any truly wild eyed experimental ones. Maybe a couple that feature P83, but not all. We’ll get there (an Ammo for -none sensitive individuals), but again, the forum’s willingness to test new things has been at an all time low. We’ll do the best we can with what we’ve got, and continue to evolve things as much as is possible. ---
**Author:** ![AMUncensored](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/amuncensored/32/497_2.png) [@AMUncensored](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/AMUncensored)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/36 "2008-11-27T02:46:31Z")
I personally think it’s a great idea. Would love to use that. I would be willing to test it. ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/37 "2008-11-27T03:24:25Z")
Hey, I want -none or -noneTHING at all ha, ha. What can I say? Why complicate things as I don’t even know what [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) or the MX series is all about (or what’s in them.) Plus, why ruin AMMO for everyone else? Just because AMMO wasn’t working well on someone else doesn’t mean that it’s the same way with everyone. Remember? It’s ALREADY buffered. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/38 "2008-11-27T03:40:55Z")
> [@mikotorocks714](#): > > Hey, I want -none or -noneTHING at all ha, ha. What can I say? Why complicate things as I don’t even know what P83 or the MX series is all about (or what’s in them.) Plus, why ruin AMMO for everyone else? Just because AMMO wasn’t working well on someone else doesn’t mean that it’s the same way with everyone. Remember? It’s ALREADY buffered. Well, P83 _is_ exciting. So are some some of the other molecules that have been developed over the years. That’s why people want or even demand them. Honestly, there is no harm in trying them in the test series, or even incorporating some of the successful test some way in Ammo v2.0. The beauty of the current Ammo, however, is simplicity. Even when we bump up to a new version, we’ll likely keep the version 1.0 available here. You can always trust simple to get the job done, even if it’s not flashy, newfangled or whizbang. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/39 "2008-11-27T07:39:18Z")
> [@Jasmin](#): > > Well, P83 _is_ exciting. So are some some of the other molecules that have been developed over the years. That’s why people want or even demand them. Honestly, there is no harm in trying them in the test series, or even incorporating some of the successful test some way in Ammo v2.0. > > The beauty of the current Ammo, however, is simplicity. Even when we bump up to a new version, we’ll likely keep the version 1.0 available here. You can always trust simple to get the job done, even if it’s not flashy, newfangled or whizbang. 🙂 I’d try it! Especially if it’s already added to -none AMMO instead of just simply removing the -none completely. I guess I’d just feel naked without -none. It’s kind of like insurance to me I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823/40 "2008-11-27T08:09:54Z")
> [@mikotorocks714](#): > > I’d try it! Especially if it’s already added to -none AMMO instead of just simply removing the -none completely. I guess I’d just feel naked without -none. It’s kind of like insurance to me I guess. For people that shower regularly, a little bit is usually nice. Yet another reason why people like my youngest brother can’t use it, btw. Not only did I see him lop on 10 to 12 sprays of Ammo, but it’s not like he has the best hygiene in the world. 25 to 30mcg of -none + what’s already on a young man? Pu ewwww! [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/petition-for-an-ammo-version-with-p83-instead-of-none/189823.md?page=3)