# pheromone fried rice **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [January 5, 2009, 9:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524 "2009-01-05T09:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/621 "2013-04-27T12:28:00Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > Ok, > > Time to play big brother here and take a tough love approach on what you just said. > > Be the alpha take action, go on another date. If you don’t like her then be up front. You make some good points here. I agree with some and slightly disagree with others. Did I maybe make a judgement call too soon on QEG? Probably. I’m experiencing a huge case of culture shock right now. For those unfamiliar with the phrase, “culture shock” is used to describe the shock someone feels in an entirely new culture. It would be the same if I went to Russia and started dating a Russian girl. I would be in shock of their culture, foods, traditions, language, etc. I’ll leave my original post above unedited for clarity and completeness but I do want to add, here, that it is an early judgement call. Think of it as a gut reaction. I know full well that on the other side of town, where she lives, she might be writing in her own journal or talking with her friends about me and our date. Many of my friends have said to go on another date. I agree with this. I like what Mustang said: “don’t punish her.” This is a great statement because maybe, truly, deep down inside she’s a different person now and wants to move on from her past. I’m not saying I’ll be a hero and show her the light or anything but I do realize commitment to the goal and I’m willing to give her a chance to show her “new” side. With all that said, I will still be cautious. This is where “speculation” (I don’t think I made the right choice with that word) comes into play. Bisexuality does not seem like an easy topic to breach and she’s already confirmed that she experiences great pleasure with other women. It may take another few dates to have all her other walls come down so that we can talk about this subject (and really, so it doesn’t sound like I’m being perverted or wanting a threesome) and then maybe another few dates to see her position after the fact. Until then, I’ll need to keep my feelings controlled. I don’t do this to attack her or find something to use against her. I do this mainly for me. In every relationship, whether it’s with friends or lovers, I give 110% of my heart and effort early on if I truly like and respect the other person. I understand the risks of doing that and I’ve been hurt a few times, but I’ve always recovered and learned from the experiences. However, if QEG does prefer women sexually and as a mate, then I am at most, second best. Putting my heart and effort on the line when I know I can’t ever win is something I don’t want to do. My biggest takeaway from all this, one that is echoed by Mustang, is to take control of the situation. I saw firsthand the results of doing so on the date and it really opened my eyes in a way they’ve never been opened before. Now I need to take control and try to get another date going, and if that goes well, take control and discuss her sexual and dating preferences so we’re both on the same page. This is an incredible ride and even with the current uncertainty, I’m glad I’m on it. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/622 "2013-05-01T06:24:20Z")
> [@jayarea](#): > > You make some good points here. I agree with some and slightly disagree with others. > > Did I maybe make a judgement call too soon on QEG? Probably. I’m experiencing a huge case of culture shock right now. For those unfamiliar with the phrase, “culture shock” is used to describe the shock someone feels in an entirely new culture. It would be the same if I went to Russia and started dating a Russian girl. I would be in shock of their culture, foods, traditions, language, etc. > > I’ll leave my original post above unedited for clarity and completeness but I do want to add, here, that it is an early judgement call. Think of it as a gut reaction. I know full well that on the other side of town, where she lives, she might be writing in her own journal or talking with her friends about me and our date. > > Many of my friends have said to go on another date. I agree with this. I like what Mustang said: “don’t punish her.” This is a great statement because maybe, truly, deep down inside she’s a different person now and wants to move on from her past. I’m not saying I’ll be a hero and show her the light or anything but I do realize commitment to the goal and I’m willing to give her a chance to show her “new” side. > > With all that said, I will still be cautious. This is where “speculation” (I don’t think I made the right choice with that word) comes into play. Bisexuality does not seem like an easy topic to breach and she’s already confirmed that she experiences great pleasure with other women. It may take another few dates to have all her other walls come down so that we can talk about this subject (and really, so it doesn’t sound like I’m being perverted or wanting a threesome) and then maybe another few dates to see her position after the fact. Until then, I’ll need to keep my feelings controlled. > > I don’t do this to attack her or find something to use against her. I do this mainly for me. In every relationship, whether it’s with friends or lovers, I give 110% of my heart and effort early on if I truly like and respect the other person. I understand the risks of doing that and I’ve been hurt a few times, but I’ve always recovered and learned from the experiences. However, if QEG does prefer women sexually and as a mate, then I am at most, second best. Putting my heart and effort on the line when I know I can’t ever win is something I don’t want to do. > > My biggest takeaway from all this, one that is echoed by Mustang, is to take control of the situation. I saw firsthand the results of doing so on the date and it really opened my eyes in a way they’ve never been opened before. Now I need to take control and try to get another date going, and if that goes well, take control and discuss her sexual and dating preferences so we’re both on the same page. > > This is an incredible ride and even with the current uncertainty, I’m glad I’m on it. I got on the ride more than a year ago and I havent regretted it since. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/623 "2013-05-02T15:38:44Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > I got on the ride more than a year ago and I havent regretted it since. Good to hear! Life has plenty of twists and turns and it’s all about finding the good in everything. Things are great with QEG and we should be meeting up again next week. I have a somewhat crazy idea for a mix. Since I’ve drifted far away from the topic of pheros, I might as well keep going. 🙄 My acne has gotten much better. I now have just “regular” acne that can be kept under control with daily cleansing, and not the big nodules I had before. I also got a bottle of blemish reducing gel to help heal the old dark and red marks. Overall, I’m happy with my skin now and am taking all precautions to keep it healthy. The biggest life change for me right now has been my fitness program. For years, I did one of a few programs depending on whether I was seeking strength or size. With the size program, I never really got big. With the strength program, I gained strength but also plenty of fat. About two months ago, I researched some new programs online and started them. The first month brought huge gains in size and strength because it was a total shock to my system. The second month, I kept it going and ate like a beast to really pack on size. I did gain some fat but not as much as before, and I bulked up nicely. I’m now on the third month of doing the same routine but my diet is super clean and strict. This allows me to keep most of the size I put on (I’m still not “huge” but I finally look like I work out) and cut some fat in time for summer. Back on topic, I’ve been using mostly the instant line currently. I have some stressful projects at work and a drop of A314 gets me through the day. CTTM and IShine help me with interactions. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/624 "2013-05-11T12:57:01Z")
This should be a long post but I’m deep in the start of a heavy work period so I have to shotgun a date night hit report, some bad news, and some good news. 8s IH forearms TAL, TAH, MEO-EST, IFM forearms (quantity unspecified) 1s P102 neck **Background** I went on a second date with QEG. One thing I learned from the first date is that she’s not big into status and also not big (yet) into intense sexual attraction. The A314 and -none did work last time but because of her bad experiences with guys, she’s become a very independent woman and the status vibe doesn’t have the same effect on her as it does with other women. Also, she still has a preference for women so a -none based mix may be overkill. Thus, I wanted to give a softer sig on the second date. The molecules really did that for me. The 8s IH was meant to draw everything out during conversation, and you’ll read later that it most certainly did. P102 is something I’ve been using more lately, don’t know what it does but it smells nice and gives me a good vibe. **The date** We met with a hug in front of a restaurant and went inside. There was some general catching up and I spread my cloud around. After about 10 minutes, the IH hit me first. I just had to tell her what I felt about her past. I wanted to wait until a drink or two in, but you can’t mess with 8 sprays of IH. 🙄 In a nice way, I let it fly. I told her that her past scares me, I felt weird on part of the first date, that I’ve had second thoughts about a second date, etc. I could see she was a little shocked but she took it all very well. At the end of my little story session, she thanked me for being truthful. Then the food came and we started to have a good time. After dinner, we went to an open mic comedy night at a nearby bar. We sat at the only available table, right in front of the stage. On the first date, I sat across the table from her and eventually moved next to her after she voiced her disapproval of my seating choice. This time, I pulled my chair right next to hers and sat down leaning toward her. Then the IH hit her hard. I asked a question about her family and she spilled everything for about 30 minutes. Her family history scares me too: pregnant teen sisters, deadbeat drug dealing brothers and cousins, no real mother or father figure. All through her story, she kept saying “I have no idea why I’m telling you this” and even though I didn’t want to hear any more, I told her to keep going. I worked the softer sig very well though. Last time, when she was telling me about her past, she broke down. This time, even though the news was much worse, she was very composed. This was due to her not feeling “below” me since I didn’t have a high status sig. I listened, I gave her support, and I made her feel like she could really talk to me without fear or shame. The show started and I leaned in even closer to her to comment on the jokes. There were two kino hits during this time. Once was when she was coming back from the restroom; she brushed her butt against my arm to get into her chair, when it wasn’t necessary to squeeze in. The other hit was when she wanted to whisper into my ear; she leaned her head on my shoulder and tilted her face up toward my ear, instead of just leaning into my ear. Besides this, there was no other real kino during the night. Since we were sitting so close to the stage, one comedian recognized her from a job they both worked at or something and made his set mostly about her. He said “I can see you’re with a guy right now but I just have to say…” and then basically made flirty jokes about her for 15 minutes. She responded to some of his prompts but I could see she was clearly uncomfortable, either because she was on the spot or because some guy was flirting with her right in front of me, or both. I just kept my cool and laughed as appropriate. Between his set and the next comedian’s set, she stammered her way through an explanation of how he knew her and apologized if it was awkward for me. I didn’t really listen to her and didn’t care how they knew each other. 🆒 After the show, we hung out at another bar that had pool tables. I played a game with her. She honestly is not very good at pool and asked me to teach her. With any other woman, I would take this as a sign to lean into her, maybe wrap my arms around her to show her how to hit the ball, etc. With QEG though, I didn’t know what to do. Over both dates, I have not seen enough kino to feel comfortable being that physical. I’m also not familiar enough with her sexual preference (men or women) to know if it will backfire on me or not. This has actually been driving me crazy. There was about 30 minutes until closing time after the game so we decided to stay, have a quick drink, and chat. We talked about life and other general things. This is where she dropped some news on me which I’ll detail below. We left as the bar was closing and I walked her to her car. We actually walked past my car and she asked “Hey, isn’t that your car?” and I said yes, but that I wanted to make sure she got to her car safely. At that point, it was unclear if we would have a third date. I’m busy, she’s busy, and I think we were both processing all the conversation topics that came up. We decided to try to keep our calendars open. I gave her a hug goodbye and we embraced for a bit, then she drove off and I went back to my car. **The bad news** For two reasons, I will not be pursuing a romantic relationship with QEG, nor do I think it’s wise to do so. One, her history really does scare me now. Not the drugs and stuff, that I can overlook, but the questionable morals and values with which she was raised. I applaud her for making a solid attempt to clean her life up but I’ve had friends like this and their past still gets to them. The saying goes, “You can take the person out of [a bad area], but you can’t take [that bad area] out of him / her.” She’s OK as a friend but I do not see myself dating her or introducing her to my friends. The bigger reason is that she is moving away at the end of this year. She can’t shake off some of the bad people in her life that live in and near our city so she said her only option is to move almost clear across the US. There’s no way she made this decision in the two weeks between our first and second date so she had to have known of these plans on the first date. On that date, I suggested to her that she get away and start a life somewhere else, and she said that she had too many ties to our current city. I suppose because of the IH and conversation topics, she was willing to tell me she was moving away. I’m glad she told me this early because it sets the tone for whenever we hang out in the future. Which brings me to the good news… **The good news** We have a third date planned already. Don’t ask me why or how; it just happened. As I mentioned before, she’s cool as a friend and we have fun hanging out. I would not mind having a no strings attached friendship (sexual or not). If things go wrong, I will never see her again. If things go well, we can end on a high note and I will never see her again. It’s comforting to know that unlike a relationship, there is already an end game in place. **Advice needed** With all that said, I would like to escalate things a little, at least to more kino or even a kiss goodbye. Is it the right time? Should I wait for her to make the first move? It just feels weird getting to know each other so well and still having less physical connection than my female friends. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/625 "2013-05-13T13:06:58Z")
A bad move on my part: I was texting QEG, got carried away, and forgot to ask her about her day. She had to throw in a random sentence about her day and then we started talking about it. I honestly feel bad. She asks me about my day sometimes, and I usually ask people about their day, but it just slipped my mind this time. I’ve quickly learned my lesson and hope this never happens again. But, on the good side: As we were wrapping up our text conversation, we joked about how it felt like yesterday we were still emailing and feeling out a “first date” (we still haven’t said the word date yet), now we’re on the way to a third date. Her tone became serious and she said “You’re a really nice guy and I’m glad you’re around.” 😮 😃 🆒 Thinking about a third date mix: The 8s IH stays, especially since we’re in deep conversation mode now. Based on what she said about me being a nice guy, I want to throw in some IG. A314 might be too heavy for now. I might switch TAL and TAH for P86 and a dash of P83, maybe even add in TAA for a boost. I’m also highly considering a sexual phero like Ammo. We’re both hitting our full work load for the summer and this next date should be our last for at least a month or so. Even if I don’t close with a kiss, I’d at least like to leave her wanting more so that our bond doesn’t get weak with all that time apart. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/626 "2013-05-14T09:29:18Z")
You better get it done before she leaves. Do IT! ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/627 "2013-05-15T01:18:24Z")
**The third date: like the first, but better** 8s IH split arms 3d A314 split arms and neck 2s Ammo SE neck and arms 30 mcg P86 arms 10 mcg P83 arms I didn’t mean to do 3d of A314 but the extra drop came out and if I had wiped it away, I would’ve wiped away some of the sprays. I definitely ghosted in status for a while but I hung in there. I picked up QEG for our last date before we both get deep into work for the next month or so. Even with all the sprays, she didn’t mention anything about me smelling nice until the end. We first went to dinner. It was at a fancier place than where we’ve been before, QEG is well-mannered but doesn’t really have a sense of etiquette, and I was status’d up on 3d of A314 so she felt really out of place for a long time, probably mostly through dinner. Her pitch was high and her voice was loud, something like what you would hear if someone was drunk, but she wasn’t. I tried to reel her in but she was gone. Since the past two dates have been mostly her telling her life story, I said that she could ask me about my life and it could be my turn to tell her some stories. This worked out well because I was in charge of the conversation the whole time and the boosted status really drove home the points I was making. Beyond that, nothing eventful happened during dinner. We had a 15 minute drive to a new dessert place. The 8s of IH broke me first. Through our 3 dates, I felt that she was talking “around” a certain part of her life. I tried to piece together her childhood, all those rough years in the middle, and her current life, and a little bit of didn’t quite make sense. At the start of the drive, out of no real prompt at all, I said, “There seems to be a part of your life that you haven’t mentioned yet.” I prefaced that with, “This will make me sound like a dick, but…” and afterwards, I said again that I felt bad for saying that, but it was just on my mind and I had to get it out. IH cracked me. I figured it was going to crack both of us, I just didn’t know when and who first. She paused in silence. I started to say that if she didn’t want to tell me, she didn’t have to because that statement was really reaching into private territory. She said it was OK and then IH cracked her - for 15 minutes, she spilled the darkest secrets she had and what I hope are the last bad things about her that I hear from her. _Editor’s note: I really don’t want to make it seem like I’m trying to portray QEG as a terrible person. You readers know I don’t censor anything in my reports. We somehow always get on the topic of life stories and for some reason, she always feels comfortable telling me about the dark parts. It’s generally established now that QEG had a bad past, so from now on, anything bad she mentions won’t end up in the report. We can assume the worst and move on._ Luckily, near the end of the story we pulled up to the dessert place so it stopped there. We quickly changed topics and went inside to enjoy some dessert. Nothing terribly eventful happened there and the conversation was basic. We were sitting at a 4-top table, me diagonal to her, and I told her to put her feet up next to me. She went to put her feet on the empty chair and I said “No, near me so I can give you a foot massage.” She laughed and said that while it was tempting, I didn’t have to. My kino play almost worked. 😉 The last stop of the night was a bar. She likes craft beers and this bar has a good selection. Apparently we were at this bar for 2 hours just based on the time we left the dessert place and the time we left the bar - I honestly have no clue how long we were there. The conversation was almost nonstop over good and bad topics. IH cracked both of us again (seriously, if anyone doesn’t believe in the power of pheromones, spray 8s of IH and see what happens 😮) and she actually thanked me for listening to her stories and for telling her some of my stories. It was quiet in the bar (Tuesday night) and we were able to have a genuine, sober conversation with a bottle of beer each to help the words flow and the trust and sincerity that comes with being on a third date. On a scale from 1 to drunk, we were both at most a 2. I was driving and she didn’t drink nearly as much as she has the past 2 dates. For some reason though, leaving the bar, she turned into this very happy, giddy, flirty person, more than I’ve ever seen her. She had something in her eye as she got into my car and flipped down the sun visor to use the mirror. The light built into the sun visor wasn’t bright enough so she reached to turn on the dome light but she kept pushing the wrong side of the light. I leaned over and said she was doing it wrong, then tried to push her window (blatant excuse to get the sprays on my arm near her face). She laughed and sort of held onto my arm for a while. I finally turned on the light so she could check her eyes, then we left. The bar is near the center of town. Once we reached the main road, it was a right turn to her place or a left turn to my place. I turned left because I knew of a scenic road where we could squeeze out just a bit more conversation before I dropped her off. She continued being happy and flirty and then realized we were heading in the direction of my place. She calmed down and asked “Wait, are we going to your place?” Without skipping a beat, I said “No, because that would be weird, wouldn’t it?” She didn’t answer, maybe hesitated like she was going to say something, and after a few seconds she resumed talking about the previous topic. My response was testing the waters of where we stand. If she would’ve said “Yeah, that’s a bit weird” even as a joke, I would know that we weren’t ready to move on yet. I take a little comfort in the fact that she had no initial reservations about possibly going to my place, at least not enough to quickly speak up or make a joke about it. The mixes and my charm are slowly doing their thing. She got a bit sad and quiet during the last 2 minutes of the drive to her place and the conversation was the typical “What are you doing, here’s what I’m doing, let’s try to keep in touch.” I pulled up in front of her house and walked around to her side of the car. I’ll be honest, I was expecting to hang out outside and chat a bit more, but she just hugged me and left. Not even a chance for a kiss. ☹ She basically didn’t really stop to hug me; it was like a walking hug. She seemed happy but I’m not sure if it was because she was sad the date was ending or she didn’t want to prolong a goodbye. On the bright side, she said I smelled amazing. After I got home, I received the standard “thanks for tonight” text. **Conclusion** Well, baby steps. She likes flirting but there has been no “sexual” flirting, if you can catch my drift. She seems to like flirting just to flirt. The way I see it, her sexual preferences still lie with women. I thought of an interesting analogy on the way home. QEG is like a bird that fell out of the nest as a baby. I’m like a rabbit that’s just hanging out by the tree. I can’t control the fact that she fell out of the nest or that she’s not ready to fly yet, I’m only interacting with her while she’s around and then she’ll fly away (move to a new city). Even though this won’t progress much past a basic friendship, I’m glad I met QEG. Everyone in the world is so different and her crazy stories and radical views make me appreciate people and new friends. I also have to give credit to her for the first date and allowing me to get over my own first and second date fears, and credit again to Mustang for the IBF mix that started it all. This wraps up the first half of the year for me. I’m glad it was a good date and report before my break. I’m busy for the rest of May and into June, probably until July, so while I’ll occasionally check in, I don’t know how much I can test and thus may not be posting much. As always, if you have questions about a mix or report, leave a reply. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/628 "2013-05-23T23:35:24Z")
Things just keep getting more interesting with QEG… Last week, she invited me out of the blue to an event. Normally we plan out our dates in advance so this was a first. Sadly, we felt we were just a little too busy to really be able to enjoy ourselves so we decided not to go. This week, she made it known to her close circle of friends (the quirky ones) that she had been out with me a few times. I’m not sure how she worded it - if she said “date” or not - but they know we’ve been out to dinner and bars and I figure they can assume from there. This is also a first. Only a few of my close friends know about QEG and she doesn’t know that they know. I don’t know where our friendship is headed so I’m waiting on the whole “meet my friends” thing until we get a little more acquainted, but she’s not waiting because… Next week, she’s taking me as a guest to one of her friend’s birthday party. She asked if I wanted to go to a birthday party with her and I said yes. A few hours later, I was just sitting around when it hit me: whoa, I’m going to meet her friends. What a whopper of a month. 3 dates, all of them long and hitting up multiple places in a night. 3 dates in a month is pretty good for me. I know more about this girl from the 2 months we’ve been talking than I did about any previous girlfriend after 6 months. And now it’s confession time - but this is not new news if you’ve read my QEG reports. I have not kissed her yet. I have not really made a move on her yet. I want to, I really want to, but I’ve been scared. Scared to possibly ruin a friendship when it’s just starting out, scared that she might think I resemble her past and not her future (this one, not so much anymore), and above all, scared that my efforts will fall flat because her bisexual tendencies are still very strong (this one the most). With that said, IBF is coming back. I will probably modify it (sorry Mustang) to include the 8s of IH. I feel that regardless of attraction in the mix, the IH has really helped open us up and connect on a deeper level. The IBF is coming back because I got the most hits from it, and that was on our first date too when we weren’t entirely comfortable with each other yet. I’d like to see what it can do a few dates in (slow burn) and with the added closeness of IH. I’m also going to change my views and thinking. In my last report, I said this probably wouldn’t progress past a friendship. If the month of June is taken out because of work schedules, that leaves us 5 months, maybe less, before she moves away. That 5 months can’t all be dedicated to me either; she has to see her other friends, close connections here, open connections at her new place, etc. You would have to be a fool to try to cram a relationship in that amount of time. But, sometimes you just have to be a fool. I’m going to push all my chips in and see what happens. Our dates have been meaningful and I intend to keep them that way and try to make them even more meaningful. I’m going to up the kino and attraction. I’m going to start caring for her not just as someone she met drunkenly through mutual friends, but as a person who is close to me. We’ve actually already started doing this - she and I will text each other randomly when one of us senses the other person needs some motivation or support, especially during this month of busy work. I’m not out to break her heart. You guys know that. I won’t be pushing for a long distance relationship either once she moves. I just feel that there’s something good brewing here and if I don’t take these chances, I’ll have missed the point of getting on the ride in the first place. I don’t know if I’ll start doing all this at the party we’re going to but we’ve already talked about dates beyond that so if I don’t do it at the party, I’ll start on the next date. Even with all this work, my summer just got a lot more fun. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/629 "2013-05-24T09:23:56Z")
> [@jayarea](#): > > Things just keep getting more interesting with QEG… > > Last week, she invited me out of the blue to an event. Normally we plan out our dates in advance so this was a first. Sadly, we felt we were just a little too busy to really be able to enjoy ourselves so we decided not to go. > > This week, she made it known to her close circle of friends (the quirky ones) that she had been out with me a few times. I’m not sure how she worded it - if she said “date” or not - but they know we’ve been out to dinner and bars and I figure they can assume from there. > > This is also a first. Only a few of my close friends know about QEG and she doesn’t know that they know. I don’t know where our friendship is headed so I’m waiting on the whole “meet my friends” thing until we get a little more acquainted, but she’s not waiting because… > > Next week, she’s taking me as a guest to one of her friend’s birthday party. She asked if I wanted to go to a birthday party with her and I said yes. A few hours later, I was just sitting around when it hit me: whoa, I’m going to meet her friends. > > What a whopper of a month. 3 dates, all of them long and hitting up multiple places in a night. 3 dates in a month is pretty good for me. I know more about this girl from the 2 months we’ve been talking than I did about any previous girlfriend after 6 months. > > And now it’s confession time - but this is not new news if you’ve read my QEG reports. I have not kissed her yet. I have not really made a move on her yet. I want to, I really want to, but I’ve been scared. Scared to possibly ruin a friendship when it’s just starting out, scared that she might think I resemble her past and not her future (this one, not so much anymore), and above all, scared that my efforts will fall flat because her bisexual tendencies are still very strong (this one the most). > > With that said, IBF is coming back. I will probably modify it (sorry Mustang) to include the 8s of IH. I feel that regardless of attraction in the mix, the IH has really helped open us up and connect on a deeper level. The IBF is coming back because I got the most hits from it, and that was on our first date too when we weren’t entirely comfortable with each other yet. I’d like to see what it can do a few dates in (slow burn) and with the added closeness of IH. > > I’m also going to change my views and thinking. In my last report, I said this probably wouldn’t progress past a friendship. If the month of June is taken out because of work schedules, that leaves us 5 months, maybe less, before she moves away. That 5 months can’t all be dedicated to me either; she has to see her other friends, close connections here, open connections at her new place, etc. You would have to be a fool to try to cram a relationship in that amount of time. But, sometimes you just have to be a fool. > > I’m going to push all my chips in and see what happens. Our dates have been meaningful and I intend to keep them that way and try to make them even more meaningful. I’m going to up the kino and attraction. I’m going to start caring for her not just as someone she met drunkenly through mutual friends, but as a person who is close to me. We’ve actually already started doing this - she and I will text each other randomly when one of us senses the other person needs some motivation or support, especially during this month of busy work. > > I’m not out to break her heart. You guys know that. I won’t be pushing for a long distance relationship either once she moves. I just feel that there’s something good brewing here and if I don’t take these chances, I’ll have missed the point of getting on the ride in the first place. > > I don’t know if I’ll start doing all this at the party we’re going to but we’ve already talked about dates beyond that so if I don’t do it at the party, I’ll start on the next date. Even with all this work, my summer just got a lot more fun. 😃 Just kiss her, damnit. I’ll flat out say 8s of IH is too much, not because of the IBF but that’s a crapload of nol’s which can seem too much off your signature. jay, use the made version, it is insane! xist in [pheromonexs.com](http://pheromonexs.com) has them You won’t regret it, and no for people wondering, I’m not paid or have had any compensation. I want my good friends here to get the products they deserve after researching and testing all these years. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/630 "2013-05-29T07:16:02Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > Just kiss her, damnit. > > I’ll flat out say 8s of IH is too much, not because of the IBF but that’s a crapload of nol’s which can seem too much off your signature. > > jay, use the made version, it is insane! > > xist in [pheromonexs.com](http://pheromonexs.com) has them > > You won’t regret it, and no for people wondering, I’m not paid or have had any compensation. I want my good friends here to get the products they deserve after researching and testing all these years. I checked out the site. Is it an offshoot of PheroTalk? I see a bunch of us active on there. Did I miss a migration or something during my 1-2 years of downtime? ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/631 "2013-05-29T11:00:29Z")
> [@jayarea](#): > > I checked out the site. Is it an offshoot of PheroTalk? I see a bunch of us active on there. Did I miss a migration or something during my 1-2 years of downtime? pt51mustang at gmail ill tell you more ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/632 "2013-05-30T02:02:01Z")
I don’t do this often. I may not have even done it in this journal before. But, tonight, I just need to rant. I need to get some things off my chest and throw them out into the Internet so I can move on. QEG and I went to that birthday party mentioned in a recent post. There, QEG introduced me to her girlfriend. Of 7 months. QEG and I have known each other for less than 3 months. I’m upset. I’m almost mad. I’m sad. I don’t know what I am right now. I’ll start with the stupid stuff. I’m mad that she has a girlfriend and I know I really have no right to be mad. QEG already stated she’s into women. We’re still in the early dating stages. I should not have put this much heart into a relationship this early, and if I didn’t do that, then I wouldn’t be mad. (more on that later) But really, I’m mad. She played me, more or less. She led me on. How does someone have a girlfriend of 3-4 months and not say anything on any of 3 dates? You’ll recall from the hit reports that we discussed sexual preferences and all that, and conveniently, no mention of a girlfriend came up. Back to me being stupid. It’s highly possible I read way too much into our interaction. We met drunkenly through friends, we chatted over email, we hung out. Maybe we were meant to be friends and I just tried too hard. She was having fun, enjoying new things with me, flirting occasionally as is normal human behavior. I was doing the same too but I think I had an internal “chick flick” moment and tried to envision a happy ending. I knew full well she was mostly a lesbian so all of this wasn’t unexpected or anything, just a disappointment. But really, I’m mad. Mad that it had to end this way. In all honesty, QEG was the first girl I’ve felt comfortable with, enough to move on from my previous ex. Yes, it’s been close to 3 years and I’m just now moving on. Or, I was, until the girl I was moving on with left me no more road on which to move on. I don’t blame QEG for this, nor am I using her as a tool to move on. We met, we connected, we had fun. However, I am mad at her (whether I’m in the right on this or not) for letting it come to this. She could’ve said anything else and I would’ve been fine. She likes me, but is into women and only sees me as a friend. Fine. She doesn’t like me. Fine. She likes me but thinks I’m weak because I haven’t kissed her yet. Fine. But suddenly springing a girlfriend on me? Not fine. I really wanted to take Mustang’s advice and kiss her. All my friends have said the same thing too - just kiss her. On all dates, though, something just didn’t feel right. I’ll admit, I might have missed a chance on the last date. That’s now water under the bridge. On the other dates, there just wasn’t that special connection. You know the feeling. You’re having a good time, you’re physically close, and you just kiss. I never found or could get myself in that situation. Most of all (and this is where the “more on this later” part comes in), I’m mad because all this is largely my fault. I saw a chance for a relationship, I tried to make it happen, and I failed. That’s on me. If I had just kept to myself and stayed friends, I wouldn’t be typing this right now. But, that’s not me. I’ve taken chances on all my exes and they paid off well. I may have forgotten the memories but I treasure the lessons learned. I really wanted to try with QEG. What can this girl, who grew up in a totally different background and lives a completely different lifestyle, teach me, and what can I teach her? What experiences can we share? These questions will go unanswered. I rocked IBF at the party. I pulled out every kino and flirting play I know. Nothing happened. In fact, I noticed her growing more distant as the night went on, until she introduced her girlfriend, at which point she just stayed distant and kept close to her girlfriend. We drove separately so I left early after I saw things were done for me. I gave her a moderately long hug, said “Stay in touch,” and she replied something of the same. Then I left. We had talked about future dates before, like new restaurants we wanted to try and “couple” places we wanted to visit, but unless she makes first contact, I have no intention of following through with these ideas. Because simply, I’m done. In addition to not feeling a connection on any of the dates, I’ve never felt completely at ease with her. My normal, high status, high sex, outgoing sig, which has never caused a problem for me before, throws her off and makes her distant. Her dark and crazy past keeps coming up and getting worse on each date - she would be the exact type of person I don’t want to be friends with, if I had not already known her. Back to stupid stuff. I had a chance to avoid this altogether. Friends of friends warned me about her past while we were still chatting on email. I could’ve just come up with an excuse to not hang out. I’m actually really serious about this. Now I know. You get the point. I could go on but I won’t. _Editor’s note: this is not entirely relevant to the post but I will add that QEG participated in highly illegal activities (not just drugs, like criminal-level stuff) before, during, and probably after the party. I’m glad she’s not around anymore. Like I said before, you can take the girl out of the bad part of town, but you can’t take the bad part of town out of the girl._ I have one more week of a project at work and then I go on vacation for a week. QEG will be out of my head by then. If we meet up again during the summer, we meet up; if not, I’m not worried about this. The QEG chapter of my life is officially closed at the end of the year when she moves away and for now, it’s unofficially closed. As always, thank you for reading. This took me about 30 minutes to type and I feel much better. This taught me a hard lesson: you just have to move on. There are more fish in the ocean but more importantly, there are better fish in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/633 "2013-05-30T08:09:14Z")
I’m sorry to hear that jay, this kinda puts a damper on things, but take this lesson, you’ve learned to move on, and you got the summer coming up full of possibilities, take it by the horns and go get em. I’ve been to cali in the summer and its loads of fun, take what you can get now and enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/634 "2013-05-31T12:01:45Z")
I knew this was going to be a roller coaster ride when I got on. It’s definitely the most interesting friendship I’ve ever been in. **My original reply to Mustang’s post above** In all of my past relationships, if things didn’t work out, we either went our separate ways or I left the girl. This was the first time I’ve been rejected. I’m not saying I’m some super womanizer that never gets rejected; it’s just that from how previous situations worked out, I was always the one who had to make the call of breaking up. This current situation might be karma, it might be humble pie, it might just be natural human discourse, but it was an eye-opening experience to be on the other side of the rejection for once. I got hurt (and there were plenty of ways to do this where nobody would get hurt) and I learned my lesson. It’s time to move on. **As I was preparing to write that post yesterday, something happened** QEG called to apologize. First off, this is incredibly weird because we don’t call each other. Second, she didn’t text me first or anything to see if I was free, she just picked up the phone and dialed. I was doing some housework or something and luckily I was able to pick up. She said that’s not how she wanted the introduction to go. Well, OK. 🙄 She actually wanted me to be friends with her girlfriend so that we could all hang out together. I don’t know QEG well enough yet to read if she was being serious or not, and I didn’t question further. She sort of sobbed her way through the apology and made no mention of why she hid the fact that she was dating a girl. Then it was my turn to talk. I basically read my recent post to her. My voice was collected but anyone could hear that there was some fire behind my words. I didn’t want to entirely rant on her. After all was said and done, I think she got where I was coming from. Then she dropped a bomb on me. She said the night didn’t turn out how she wanted because she felt intimidated by me. If you look back on my first date post, I noted that she seemed in shock during the first 30-60 minutes of being in the IBF cloud. I guess it happened again. My swagger was on full blast and she just couldn’t take it. Again, I’m not sure I believe her apology, but I do believe that she was intimidated by me. I didn’t hold back at the party. Aside from this mishap, I had fun at the party and everyone else received my cloud well. If QEG can’t handle my sig, she can’t handle my sig. **Conclusion** We ended our conversation in limbo. I don’t know where we stand right now as friends - on top of that, I don’t really care either way. It’ll be on her if she wants to make contact again. I really do need to get my work done so I won’t be on here much for a few weeks. Mustang, I’ve made a note to myself to email you. I have to say this again: this was a hard lesson to learn. Life is about lessons though. I’ll go clear my head, have some fun, and be OK, and probably later on down the road I’ll look back at this and it won’t hurt. I have to say this again too: thank you all for reading. You’ve enjoyed the good times with me, you’ve pulled me through the bad times, and that’s why I like sharing my life with you all. If it’s summer where you live, I hope you’re able to have some fun. If you’re heading into winter, stay warm. I’ll be back in a few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/635 "2013-06-19T00:18:25Z")
After a nice two weeks off, I’m back and ready to take control of the second half of this year. 😃 I went on an adventure tour for about ten days. I was with about 35 strangers and we hiked, canoed, and did other outdoors stuff during the day and went into local towns for nightlife. It was a really fun way to meet new people and take my mind off things. I packed A314 (original), TUTH, and Ammo SE. Ammo and A314 covered my bases during the day and I figured TUTH would be helpful at night. These three pheros more than paid for themselves, as you’ll read later on. From this trip, I have disappointing (but not necessarily bad) news, a life lesson of sorts, an interesting tidbit, and some great news, and I’ll present it all in that order. **Well, that’s not what I had hoped for** In summary: I had a very good chance to hook up with a girl, something missed, and she ended up hooking up with another guy. Hot, 20’s, mixed Asian and white. I had my eyes on her from the start. I actually don’t even remember how we started talking but eventually, she would opt to share a canoe with me or hold my arm while hiking. I pulled out every play I had and used Ammo and A314 to the fullest. 2s of TUTH was the sweet spot around her and while wearing this during one drunken night, she went crazy around me and we kissed briefly. (PDA between people was kept to a minimum because there wasn’t any private area. Had this been at a club or at home, we would’ve been fully making out and perhaps more.) At the same time, I noticed her flirting with other guys, just not to the extent that she did with me. Gradually she toned down her flirting until it was just with me and another guy, the guy who would eventually bed her. One of the nights was exceptionally warm so all the guys hung around in shorts and no shirt and the girls wore as little as possible while remaining decent. This girl wore loose pajama shorts, a bra, and a light tank top. She was lying down on a couch and I decided to jump behind her and cuddle. She was very receptive to this and immediately pushed her body back against mine. My free hand wandered all over her body and did not encounter any resistance. I grabbed her ass, cupped her breasts (bold moves considering the unspoken no PDA rule) and at one point, when she rolled over onto her back, ran my hand up her inner thigh and underneath her shorts until I could feel her panties. There were some light pecks but it quickly became too warm to be so physically close and other people were around so we called it a night and went separately to bed. The following day was free time in the city with a bar outing at night. She and I spent the day with some other people shopping, walking around, and eating, and I knew it was my chance to shine that night. There was lots of kino from her and we were close all day. People who wanted to hook up on the trip always left early from bar nights to get some alone time before everyone else came back. I was expecting to make a brief appearance and then disappear with her. Then things flipped upside down and inside out. I was last in line for the showers so as was the norm for the trip, the majority of the group would head out first to grab tables and stuff and the last people to shower and get ready would catch up. I got to the bar and this girl barely even says hi to me. When I put my arm around her, she did not lean in, and I had to sneak in a kiss on her cheek - that did not seem to be well-received either. I literally had no clue what happened. We were great throughout the whole trip, we were great that day, then suddenly, on this random night, it’s like we didn’t know each other. I did know one thing though: it was pretty much game over from the start. When I walked in, she was standing by the other guy. Later on they were dancing together. I cut my losses at that point and started talking to other people. I don’t like to participate in drama but sometimes it’s inevitable and I let it happen. The next day, many people came up to me and asked what happened. They said they saw me on the couch getting close with this girl the day before and then saw me leaving alone (with friends, but not with her) from the bar. She actually stayed late and closed out the bar with that guy and some other people. My response was always “I don’t know what happened.” I also talked to some of the girls who became close with this girl on the trip and they said they didn’t know what happened either. I assumed they hooked up and I was right. She was distant from me at the start of the day and relatively close to the other guy. She tried to playfully recover by slapping my arm during a joke I made and I just looked at her in a weird way. Eventually, I had to clear things up so I dropped back with her on a hike and asked her to be up front with me - she might never see me again so there was no worry about hurting my feelings. She said she did hook up with that other guy. I asked why she picked him over me when we had been getting so close in recent days (worded in a way that was meant to be a slight dig at her). Her response was the following, and I cannot even make this up: “I didn’t know you liked me like that!” What? 😕 She quickly became very remorseful and I could see her face turn slightly pale so I’m inclined to believe she was telling the truth, or she’s a very good actor. I let out some more digs at her and asked if that night on the couch and other close times meant nothing to her. She replied that she thought I was just being playful when I was grabbing her ass and breasts (she made no mention about what she thought about us kissing). Again, what? 😕 To wrap it all up, she somewhat apologized and said she really did feel bad for ignoring my advances. I didn’t speak to her much after that and whenever I glanced at her while talking to other girls, she would always be looking at me. We’ve traded emails and talk occasionally. She’s a good person and I would still treat her as a friend if we met again, but to me, she’s the one that got away and I’ve closed the chapter on that. Disappointing, yes, but not bad. I practiced my flirting moves with QEG and stepped it up with this girl and now I feel like I’m more polished. Some people on the trip say I dropped the ball and should have made a move earlier (this is a weakness I need to work on), others say the other guy was in the right place at the right time (I don’t know what happened between them at the bar while I was still getting ready), I sometimes feel like the other guy jacked my sig and got lucky. In any case, it was a lesson learned the hard way - that unfortunately makes two learned the hard way in a month - but a lesson learned nonetheless. **Time for life lessons** 1. I actually have been in this girl’s place before. Some girls have thrown themselves at me and I would notice it (I’m not as dumb as this girl) but choose to ignore it if I didn’t like them. I was on the receiving end of this and it hurt, and now I know not to be that person in the future. If she had told me early in the trip that she didn’t like me, or if she had not reciprocated my advances, everything would be fine. It’s the fact that she kept flirting back and then suddenly dropped me that bothered me. 2. I put all my eggs in one basket and I shouldn’t have. Yes, this girl was into me, but there were plenty of other girls on the trip that I could have talked to, and should have talked to. After our little mishap, I started talking to the hottest girl there. Super fit blonde straight out of a magazine. She revealed that she was into me (more on this later) and wished we could’ve talked more over the trip but as you may know, people in large groups tend to separate into smaller groups like the “cool kids,” shy people, etc, and she and I never really were together for long periods of time. Putting my eggs in one basket has long been a poor habit of mine. I’ve talked about this before. It was easy to get and keep a girlfriend in college so I’ve had not much practice with spreading myself out and seeing what’s out there. It’s a slow progression but I know the results are worth it. **Interesting tidbit** All of the girls I talked to said they got a “fatherly” or “big brother” vibe from me. A314 more than paid for itself on this trip. All the outdoor activities really drove in the high status aspect. There was lots of respect from guys too, even the one who got that girl. It was truly incredible to see the effects of pheros on people completely new to them. **And now, the great news** Most of the girls I talked to said they were into me in some form. Some said I was good at the outdoors stuff, others liked my wit and charm, and many of them said I was complete boyfriend material. 😛 Of these girls, the majority were hot. The hottest one I talked to at the end and a few others looked like they could be in a magazine; the rest were hot in a “everyone looks when she’s walking down the street” way. I’ve always tried to hit on hot girls but I’ve never received real attention back from them. My previous girlfriends and serious dates have all been what most men would consider cute: good looking, rounded features, and can hit bombshell status with makeup and nice clothes. These girls on the trip, their bodies, faces, hair, everything was runway ready even in hiking clothes. I’m not a model by any means so it felt really good to get attention from girls of this nature. This boost of motivation was just what I needed. All of my hard work fell into place at the right time. My acne cleared up and even though I had a few small bumps throughout the trip, I felt confident about my skin. I don’t have a six-pack yet but I’m in the fittest shape of my life and I felt comfortable taking my shirt off (around hot girls, too). The strict diet, the morning workouts, all that made this trip much more enjoyable. In turn, this trip gave me energy to keep improving myself and work hard in the coming months. **While we’re at it** When I left, QEG and I were on limbo terms. We didn’t know where we stood in terms of friendship and all that. She’s sort of a hippie and loves nature so I took a picture of a nice hike area and sent it to her once I got cell reception on one of the city days. I decided to move forward with our friendship instead of waiting around to see who would talk to the other person first. She replied and said thanks for sending the picture. A few days after that, she texted me and asked me to let her know when I was getting back and what my work schedule was so she could set some plans in motion for meeting up again. I texted her upon my return and she was happy to hear from me. I guess in a way, we “made up” and put the past behind us. This is wonderful - harboring ill feelings does no good. She’s a good person and I’m glad our friendship can move forward. I feel great about the rest of this year. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CelticPrince](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/celticprince/32/397_2.png) [@CelticPrince](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/CelticPrince)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/636 "2013-06-19T06:11:03Z")
Jay, Re: QEG, or any other girl for that matter… “Don’t be afraid to see what you see..” -Ronald Reagan ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/637 "2013-06-27T19:58:10Z")
> [@CelticPrince](#): > > Jay, > Re: QEG, or any other girl for that matter… > > “Don’t be afraid to see what you see..” > -Ronald Reagan I like this quote, thank you! ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/638 "2013-06-28T23:34:53Z")
I just got back from a date / “date” with QEG. As usual, nothing happened, but here are some notes. I used IBF in as true of a form as I could get. I left P96 5 mcg short because my bottle is 25 mcg, and [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) I tried to get a half spray and did pretty well. A314 came out pretty quickly (it’s warm where I live) so it might’ve been 2.5 drops. (Mustang, per your recommendation, yeah I really need to try this in the premade form.) QEG, as usual, broke down again, but luckily this time it was not completely centered around illegal activities. She spilled her feelings this time about her lack of self-confidence and being intimidated by beautiful women. She’s always felt like this so it didn’t surprise me. She’s pretty - at least a solid 7 by anyone’s standards, with curves - and she doesn’t think she’s ugly, she just doesn’t think she’s good enough to be seen in the same restaurant or area with textbook “hot” girls that wear heels and tight dresses. (To put things in perspective, she’s very hippie and never really got into makeup or dressing up, so even when I say she looks great, she doesn’t believe me.) What does surprise me is what exactly triggers her breakdowns. I’ve worn A314, I’ve not worn A314, same with IH, multiple different molecules and P’s, and I can’t put my finger on it. A few dates ago it was probably the 8s of IH I wore. I also used to think it was my status and A314 that got her. After tonight, I think it’s just that we’re different. My words: you’ve heard the story before so I won’t repeat it too much but she grew up with people always dragging her down and holding her back, so she never really got her chance to shine. I was a shy guy growing up but I had the will to change, I found pheros, I have you guys, and I gained the confidence I lacked. I feel that she’s intimidated by me because I not only don’t try to bring her down, I give her honest compliments and she just has no idea what to do. With that said, I hate it. I had a little nagging thought driving to meet her: “When is she going to break?” I didn’t want her to break and I was hoping she wouldn’t, but I was preparing for the worst. Sure enough, about halfway through, the gates opened. I don’t mind listening to her stories but it always puts a damper on the conversation and we really have to reach to change the topic. While we’re on the subject of bad news, she did mention her girlfriend. Only once and in passing, but it was a harsh jolt of reality to be on a nice date with a pretty girl and then suddenly remember she has a girlfriend. It’s like my brain tells me to shut everything down and go home, yet I still have to grind it out for the rest of the date. Honestly, sometimes I wonder, “What am I doing sitting here with a girl who has a girlfriend?” It gets to me, especially when I know I have the capability to really push this beyond just a friendship. She’s a good friend though. Before the girlfriend thing, she and I would text each other for support, to see how everything was going, and to offer open ears for any rants. I can’t say I’ve moved that quickly in such a short amount of time with any other new friend I’ve met. I’ll grind it out and keep doing my thing and see if anything happens. And on that note 😉 something interesting happened tonight. On our third date, the last one before the party where she revealed her girlfriend, we sat at a 4-top table diagonal to each other and I tried to get her to put her feet in my lap so I could give her a foot massage. It didn’t work then. Tonight, we were again sitting diagonal to each other at a 4-top table and out of the blue, she leaned back in her chair and put one leg up on my thigh. I turned to give her a better angle and she crossed her other leg over onto my thigh. She was wearing shoes so I don’t think she was expecting a massage, and I don’t recall that we were talking about anything flirty either. This might have marked the first time in our history, besides arm touches, that she has initiated the first kino move. I was really happy and put my hand on her leg to lean in to talk. I won’t call it a hit, even if it is one, but I will say it’s a milestone. At the end of our date, we said our closing words and then hugged. I’ve noticed that she’s at the right height and always turns her face on my chest to face the bend of my elbow so that’s where I sprayed the pheros tonight. It worked. We held the hug for a good 8-10 seconds, pretty long for a hug, and her face was right in the middle of the all the sprays and she commented on my nice scent. With all her whiffs, she “took home” a little bit of IBF and I’m hoping it sticks. **Conclusion** QEG is like a reward that is covered by lots of rock. I’m going to chip away slowly at the rock. There’s a lot of rock - she’s stated she’s a lesbian and has a girlfriend - but we somehow keep setting up dates and that’s more opportunities for me to chip away. I don’t know what the reward is, I don’t know if I’ll ever reach it, I’ll just keep chipping away and posting the results here. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/639 "2013-06-30T22:47:37Z")
Something nice to close out the week: Another milestone in the QEG saga was reached today. She used the word “date” for the first time in the context of how I use it here. A few dates ago, I started using the phrase “go out” and its variants. I was recalling a story or something and I said “… like that time we went out to …” In a normal friend situation, I would’ve just said “when we went to” but I wanted to get the word “out” in there to make it feel closer (I was also using 8s of IH at the time). In the report detailed in the previous post, we both used “date” in front of each other for the first time but I think with slightly different meanings. We sat at a table near the end of dinner service and were alone in a section of the restaurant for a while. Suddenly, these two businessmen arrive and sit down at the table next to us. We were both pretty shocked because there were plenty of tables available and it seemed really random (and slightly annoying) that they would choose the one right next to us. We heard much of their conversation as I’m sure they could hear ours - if they weren’t there, I think we could’ve gotten into naughtier topics, but that’s passed now. Anyway, when they sat down, she whispered to me, “Hey, I didn’t know we were on a double date tonight” and motioned to the next table. A bit later, I started talking about something and she had no clue what I was talking about. I said to her, “We’ve been on X dates and we’ve talked about this each time!” We both laughed and carried on with the conversation. Both times were in passing and not fairly serious. Today, during a text message conversation, she wrote, “Let’s do a date at …” This doesn’t sound serious at face value but it’s the first time she’s mentioned “date” while making plans. Previously, we would just say “Does \_\_\_ work for you?” or “Let’s shoot for …” From this (and to relate it back to pheros), I’m going to be consistent with IBF when I see her. The IH and other pheros were fun but we’ve hit two milestones in one weekend and I think if I’m going to continue chipping away at her, I should chip away with the same tool (IBF) instead of switching it up. I feel that this will give her a solid base for her to recognize me so that when I do switch it up later, it’ll have more effect. Right now I don’t want to confuse her with different sigs. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromone-fried-rice/24524/640 "2013-07-05T23:53:55Z")
One more milestone in the QEG story: last night, she slept with me in my bed. Still nothing happened (details on that later in the post), but I was still very happy to have hit this milestone. Let’s read about what happened last night. We were not actually supposed to hang out. Earlier in the week, we sort of made some tentative plans for the weekend and left it at that. Before the girlfriend fiasco, we would text each other occasionally. After the girlfriend fiasco, we would only text to make plans, then have no contact up until the day of the date where we might text briefly just to confirm the date plans. I felt bad about this change. It’s like a “I’ll only talk to you when I need you” situation. She tried to reverse the change first and would sometimes text me random things like “Just got off work. What a long day!” I would reply and the conversation would stop there (details on this too later). I tried to do my share in reversing the change yesterday by texting her and wishing her a happy 4th of July. She has more friends than I do and was bound to be partying somewhere. Immediately, she texts back that she has no plans and asks if I want to join her in meeting some friends. I agree and we set a time for a few hours later that evening. The date before this one was also scheduled on the same day so we’re getting pretty good at squeezing in time when we can. I got to her place to pick her up and she informs me that plans have changed. Her friends’ party grew too large and nobody could agree on where to go so they decided to just meet at a large bar. QEG, with her hippieness and all that, doesn’t like large bars and prefers smaller places like lounges and dive bars. She said she was in no rush to meet her friends and that once we met them, we only had to stay for a short time and then we could leave (her friends also know she doesn’t like large bars but they couldn’t go against the group’s decision). This turned a pre-date and group party into almost a proper one on one date. She asked me to pick a place to go and I picked the closest one to her house because I didn’t want to waste time. She liked my choice and we headed off. I wore IBF in the usual neck and arm application points along with 3s of Spaceland in my hair. Before leaving my place, I was preparing for a large party and figured Spaceland would help. Once it became a date with just QEG, I wanted to see if Spaceland could help us open up without the breakdown effects of IH. At the first place, we started with one drink each and talked about simple topics. A thing that I enjoy, though I know we don’t do it consciously, is we lightly touch on deep topics and jump around to see which ones we want to open up. A few topics such as her girlfriend and “our” (her and mine) future were looking pretty good, and the drinks were kicking in. I’ll sum up those two topics very quickly. She does have a girlfriend but they have some issues and she’s not entirely happy all the time. They have been intimate with each other (beyond kissing). She stated herself that she is more than bisexual but would not consider herself a full lesbian (what the fuck that even means, I have no clue). We both used the word “date” a lot, we mutually agreed that we are very good friends, I reaffirmed the fact that I am attracted to her sexually and understand if she does not feel the same way, and in a slightly tipsy state, we both said we enjoy each other’s company. Some of this comes into play later in the post, some might come in during future dates. Her breakdown rolled in but it was not nearly as bad as before. I’d actually just call it a confession. She said that over the past few months, with work getting heavy and some issues with her girlfriend, she has turned to weed and other light drugs to take a break. The reason our text conversations never got past my one reply is because she would send a text and then go get high, or send a text while high, and by the time I replied, she would either be sleeping or too zoned out from the drugs. I made huge strides in accepting this fact last night. She knows I’m not a fan of it, yet she also knows she can be very honest with me about these things. If I’m talking to the version of QEG that is under the influence of something, I would like to know so I can prepare myself accordingly. We touched on this topic again later in the night and we’re starting to get on the same page. “But pheros, jayarea, pheros!” Yes, there were pheros. We did not hug or anything when I went to her place, probably because we just saw each other less than a week ago. Our first kino of the night was at the first place where we were seated in a booth. She got in on one side, I got in on the other, and she scooted almost to the middle. I scooted past the middle so I was right next to her. Our legs were touching and at first she pulled hers away, then eventually it was just natural to let them be and then they were touching again. I had a nice warmth from the drink and the booth had a high back so I could feel my cloud just engulfing our little area. There was DIHL, lots of playful touches, and some coy glances. We spent about two hours at the first place and decided it was time to meet her friends and get that out of the way so we could continue with our date. On the way there, as we were walking, I made a stupid joke and she said “You deserve a slap for that.” She said this as her hand lightly (seriously) brushed my arm so I braced for a playful slap, and she just lightly brushed my arm again with her hand. I don’t know if I’m reading too much into this but it was the softest playful slap I’ve ever received (and I know she’s capable of putting some sort of muscle into a playful slap). We met her friends, some of whom I’d met at the birthday party a month ago (the girlfriend fiasco). They remembered me and seemed happy to see me. I don’t have much in common with them but it’s nice to think I’m slowly being accepted by her friends. I know I’ve said this before: you don’t just date a girl, you date her friends too. I introduced myself to some of the people I didn’t know and let the A314 shine through. QEG saw me out of the corner of her eye and turned to smile at me, as if she was happy I was making friends with more of her friends. The conversation fell flat because I was very much an outsider but I gave it my best shot. Because we had spent so long at the first place, her friends had grown tired of their first place, the large bar, and wanted to move on to another large bar. QEG had a good time seeing her friends but I could sense she was not in her comfort zone so we quickly finished our drinks and parted ways with them. We made our way to the second and final place of the night. We have been to this place before and it’s a regular hangout for us so she instantly felt comfortable again. More of the same occurred here: touching on various topics from the night and digging into some of them. She dropped a bomb on me and it was one of the greatest bombs I’ve ever received. In summary, she said that she is not sexually attracted to guys. She’s had boyfriends before and has been intimate with them, but largely it was going through the motions and because it was the thing to do at the time. She likes smart guys, she likes guys at work who get their stuff done, etc, but she only likes those guys for their respective “external” qualities. When the clothes come off, if it even gets to that point, there’s just no spark, no matter how attractive the guy is. This is what I wanted to hear from day one, even though it’s not good news. I just wanted it straight and simple. Does QEG like guys? Do I have a chance with her? I got my answer (no, and probably not). She got very drunk very quickly at this place because the bartender knows us and gives us strong pours. I was driving so I had one drink and then water the rest of the night. We decided to head out thirty minutes before closing time to beat traffic and so she could get home to rest (she told me this morning that her vision was blurry, but she seemed in control of herself at the time). As we were leaving, she wrapped her arm around my arm. Not playfully, not in a “drunk and hanging on” way, but in a way similar to how the girl from the adventure tour put her arm in my arm while hiking, and how other girls in my life have done the same. It felt nice. It felt right. I’ve yet to hold her hand, one of my favorite things to do with a girl, but I’ll take this as a start. Since it was close to closing time on a major holiday, I decided to take the side streets and avoid the main roads where the DUI checkpoints would be set up. (unrelated note: even though a checkpoint would not affect her as the passenger, she thanked me many times for having the forethought to avoid the checkpoints in the first place and said this earned me plenty of brownie points.) We again found ourselves in a similar situation where staying on the current street would take us to my place, whereas going back to her place would require a turn. Again, she realized this fact and this time straight up said “We’re already headed toward your place; let’s go there instead of you having to make a turn.” And sadly, again, I failed to deliver the correct response. Because she had thanked me so many times for caring about our safety and avoiding the checkpoints, I was too focused on “sober driver” mode and completely lost touch with “I’m on a date with QEG” mode. I said something to the effect of “It’s not a problem, I’ll have you home shortly.” I’m so smooth, right? 😕 But all is not lost! Remember, I may not be the smartest guy, but I learn. She got sad after I said that and I could see it. I drove straight past that turn. She realized this and asked “So we are going to your place?” I said “Yes, we’ve been to your place many times and you’ve not been to mine, so since we’re headed this way, I want to show you my place.” I’m so smooth, right? 😛 I could not believe what was happening until I closed my front door behind me and QEG was standing in my living room. Finally, after multiple failures, she was at my place with some intention of spending the night. Even with the notion of sex pretty much shot down, I felt good that things were headed in a better direction than just hugs goodbye. Also, I knew that if I had made that turn to go drop her off, all doors to any sort of future intimacy would be shut. Her wanting to come to my place and me taking her there at least keeps some doors open. As I mentioned in the start, nothing happened. She sort of was resting against me at one point in the night but then she rolled over and that was the end of that. Here are some other incidents and my take on them. First, I was deathly afraid to make any sort of move on her for the first part of the night. I didn’t want to jeopardize our friendship, especially after what she said about not being attracted to guys. After she rolled over next to me though, I got braver and decided to test the waters. She made no move on me at all during the course of the night. The judgement is still out on this - maybe she was a bit too drunk and just wanted to sleep, or maybe she just didn’t want to make a move. Aside from rolling over next to me, there was zero initiation from her all night. However, given that, she was not cold to my advances. I did my own rolling and we often ended up with our bodies touching - after all, we were sharing a bed. I know that for at least one of those times, she was awake and coherent, and yet did not try to roll away from me. Good so far. She’s a side sleeper and I’m a back sleeper. This works out nicely for me because when the girl is on her side, I like to rest my hand on her ass. It’s sort of sexual, sort of friendly, and not too overbearing. If the girl rolls over onto her stomach, then my hand naturally cups her ass. This happened with QEG. The hand on the ass was good, the natural cupping was good, and in the morning, when we were both drifting in and out of sleep, I even lightly moved my fingers while cupping her ass and all was good. Then came the big challenge: spooning. I didn’t try for full on, body to body contact spooning because her head was in a position that didn’t leave room for my arm to go under her, and also I was “standing at attention” and didn’t want to poke her in the ass (yet). 😉 I rolled over, left a few inches between us, and placed my hand on her ass as I would in a normal spoon position. My arm was in an awkward position since it wasn’t under her so I didn’t sleep in this position, I just held it for about thirty minutes. The semi-spoon test passed. Side note: I’m actually very glad I failed that first time. If we had ended up going to my place, I most certainly would’ve made a move on her. It’s safe to say she probably would not have liked this, given what you and I know now, and we’d have some awkward talk in bed or something. Patience and stupidity paid off. The crowning moment came in the morning when we were up. I went to go get her a cup of water. When I got back, she was curled up on her side playing with her phone. Her ass was pointed up and my shorts were pulled tight across it because she was rolled over. Perfect smacking position. I set the cup down and made an exaggerated movement of bringing my arm up. She had two options at this point: roll away, playfully or otherwise, to avoid the smack, or remain there and take the smack. She didn’t move and I took my chance. My hand came down gently enough to be flirty and playful but hard enough to make a sound. I also left it there briefly after the smack. No reaction from her. The judgement is still out on this one too. Either she didn’t care for it and just didn’t bother to react, or she liked it / didn’t mind it. I couldn’t read her either way. Besides the final ass smack, all of these motions are what I would do with any other girl in my bed. Yes, I had deeper intentions of seeing where my boundaries are, but at face value, I’m sharing a bed with a beautiful girl and there’s bound to be some touching. There was no followup touching from her so I can’t say if it’s doing anything for her, but the basic semi-spoon and hand placements are tolerated and that’s a good thing. The worst part about last night was probably the morning. She was feeling hungover and the car ride didn’t help, so we didn’t talk much during the ride to her place. I was hoping for some friendly chatter and I think I set my expectations too high. She left my car without a hug or anything and we said we would keep in touch, and then she was gone. Again, too high of expectations, but I could see how she could’ve been eager to get back to bed and out of the sun. Three takeaways from all this: One, I have to bring my own weapons to this fight. QEG prefers women for their qualities and what they can bring to a relationship. I obviously don’t have the body parts and gentle touch and soft hair that women do. Why compete with that though? What can I bring to the table that will interest and attract her? I don’t have an answer yet but one thing I can think of is the ass smack. There’s a level of trust that allows me to touch her ass in the first place, and something there that allowed me to smack it. If I had to put words in her mouth, I would say that what she means by “more than bisexual, but not a full lesbian” is that she likes women sexually but still enjoys some things about the straight lifestyle, just not to the point of being 50 / 50. Smacking asses is inherently a guy thing. There might be other things I can think of and these are what I need to do to get to the next level with her. Two, there is no next level with her. She already said it herself. The line might be drawn at sharing a bed, any associated touching, and maybe a few playful smacks here and there. I’m going to again put words in her mouth and say that there is no _predetermined_ next level. We don’t know what’s out there. Which brings us to three: chipping away seems to be working. The little arm touches, the kino, the flirting, these are all chips. That’s why I so happy with even small results like her using the word “date.” Patience and persistence are on my side. 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