# Pheromones a myth in mammals **URL:** \ **Category:** Studies & Abstracts\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328 "2010-11-15T21:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Madone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Madone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Madone)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/21 "2010-12-08T19:08:58Z")
Hope this one is available in iBooks ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 7:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/22 "2010-12-31T07:26:37Z")
This is a link to [my comments on Avery Gilbert’s opinion of Richard L. Doty’s book: “The Great Pheromone Myth.”](http://firstnerve.com/2010/12/out-of-shadows-i-no-longer-believe-in.html?showComment=1292196946781#c7470634747426650007) I’ve edited and reproduced my comments here with an **indicator** of the point I was trying to address: \*\*1. Some people may believe that the evidence for priming pheromones in mammals is weak and artifactual. \*\* The required levels of biological organization (i.e., gene-cell-tissue-organ-organ system) have been detailed. So has the evolved neurophysiological mechanism that links mammalian pheromones to their priming effect on hormones. The evidence is not weak, it’s overwhelming! 2. **Dr. Doty stretches the definition of pheromone to include or exclude his qualifiers.** I do not advocate stretching the original definition of pheromones. They are social odors and they release definite behaviors. The definite behaviors exist because of the developmental (hormone-driven) processes the pheromones effect. 3. **Dr. Doty limits the definition of pheromone to include or exclude his qualifiers.** I do not advocate limiting the original definition. There is no science from any species that indicates that the concept infers (as Doty does on page 3) “…that a plurality of mammalian behaviors and endocrine responses is uniquely determined in an invariant way by single or small sets of chemical stimuli….” 4. **Experiments with male mice show that application of Chanel No. 5 causes him to prefer to mate with Chanel No. 5 scented females. That makes Chanel No. 5 a pheromone.** The male mouse (or the males and females of any species) must first have been genetically predisposed to respond (or not) to the epigenetic influence (on hormones) of a mother’s pheromones. Otherwise no animal could be conditioned to respond to the initial association of a mother’s pheromones with the odor of a perfume. 5. **General comments on alternative beliefs about sex pheromones, which include (A) no chemical qualifies as a human sex pheromone (B) many chemicals qualify as [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) (C) human sex pheromones do not exist.** Maternal pheromones can be considered sex pheromones because females produce more of the hormones that metabolize to the pheromones of females than do males (and vice versa). These sex pheromones also are processed by a sexually differentiated olfactory system, which allows them to have a different effect on the hormones of males than on the hormones of females, and the effect on hormones is what causes the behavioral affects. The sexual dimorphism is the main reason to keep the concept of sex pheromones, as they are central to the development of sexual preferences. Food odors, for comparison, are central to the development of food preferences, but there is no sexual dimorphism in the food odors or in their effect on the hormones of males and females, or in how those hormones affect behavior. If we eliminate the concept of sex pheromones, there is no biologically based explanation for the development of either typical or atypical mammalian sexual preferences (and associated behaviors that are sometimes manifest). Doty’s attempt to disprove the existence of mammalian pheromones, which include mammalian sex pheromones, is akin to me attempting to prove that food odors don’t exist. After all, no single or small sets of food odor uniquely determine in an invariant way the plurality of mammalian behaviors and endocrine responses associated with the development of food preferences. The rest of the story will become much clearer in the next few months as the eusocial insect model of olfactory/pheromonal influences is extended to mammals, including humans. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/23 "2010-12-31T07:29:48Z")
**Dr. Craig B Warren reviews “The Great Pheromone Myth”** [Review](http://www.fragrancefoundation.org.uk/pdfs/Fragrance_Foundation_Forum_Winter2010.pdf) (see page 10) excerpt: “Does a pheromone exist that can enhance attraction, modify mood, or alter hormonal activity? Most likely–but right now, buyer beware! Only good science and time will reveal the answer.” — Dr. Gary Beauchamp Craig Warren was the researcher responsible for the formulation of the “Andron” product of the 70’s. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![mirror\_sound](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mirror_sound/32/1884_2.png) [@mirror\_sound](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mirror_sound)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/24 "2011-01-15T11:36:41Z")
sigh.. every scientific test expiriments Always try to argue and prove, or shun that one pheromone if any should be able to invoke a sexual state off the bat. shouldnt a bunch of dynamic pheromones be what were really lookin for to entice the opposite. not a fact. but by expirience iv notice a few women in my life to have a bitter sweet smell when they’re horny with me. which actually gets me off 🙂 (they were not wearing perfune) maybe I read it wrong but I believe that it would only elict a tiny sense in a very subtle way. but its still there, and thats whats important. Im in no way a man of science at all. but I somtimes think that humans, through evolution, our sense of smell weakens as we develope other senses. But maybe I just want to believe that they do exist tht I make up things. But Im hopefull for it. Bcuz I want to know how to maximise mine and use it to my full advantage 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/25 "2011-01-15T13:19:27Z")
You can track the scientific progress we’ve made with the mixture of [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) contained in the Scent of Eros via our presentations at scientific meetings. In 2007, for example, our title included the words “…may condition…” By 2010 we were able to state, without reservation that “Human pheromones increase women’s observed flirtatious behaviors and ratings of attraction.” The science is real. Doty’s misrepresentation of pheromones as a myth ignores the real science. Kohl, J.V., Kelahan, L.C. & Hoffmann, H. (2010). Human pheromones increase women’s observed flirtatious behaviors and ratings of attraction. **International Society for Human Ethology**. Madison, Wisconsin. Kohl, J.V., Kelahan, L.C. & Hoffmann, H. (2009). Human pheromones increase women’s observed flirtatious behaviors and ratings of attraction. 13th Annual Meeting of the **Society for Behavioral Neuroendocrinology**. East Lansing, Michigan. Kohl, J.V., Kelahan, L.C. & Hoffmann, H. (2009). Putative Human Pheromones Increase Women’s Observed Flirtatious Behaviors and Ratings of Attraction. **Association for Chemoreception Sciences 31st Annual Meeting** ,. Sarasota, Florida. Kelahan, L.C., Hoffmann, H, & Kohl, J.V. (2008). Olfactory/pheromonal input and human female proceptive sexual behaviors/preferences. **Society for Neuroscience**. Washington, D.C. Kelahan, L.C., Hoffmann, H, & Kohl, J.V. (2007). Androstenol/androsterone may condition a human hormonal effect/behavioral affect. **Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality** 50th Anniversary Annual Meeting. Indianapolis, Indiana. Kelahan, L.C., Hoffmann, H, & Kohl, J.V. (2007). Androstenol/androsterone may condition a human hormonal effect/behavioral affect. **Association for Chemoreception Sciences** 29th Annual Meeting,. Sarasota, Florida. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![wambrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ab992/32.png) [@wambrose](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/wambrose)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/26 "2011-05-03T14:43:14Z")
This is my first post. I read the post on Doty’s book first because I have great faith in the scientific, peer reviewed, approach to knowledge and am VERY skeptical of the human propensity to reject cool headed evidence in favor of wishful thinking. If there were anything to this business it could be important to my life, so I am interested. So… I’m thinking: • Doty’s arguments must be taken seriously; they are based on measurement and analysis over an extended period of time [according to this post]. Those who would dismiss him as a whack-adoodle are lightweights who can not be taken seriously. • If pheromones have been proven to have even minimal effect in increasing sexual success we would be saturated with pitches for commercial products making inflated claims even on prime time TV. I haven’t seen any. This is the strongest counter-indicator as far as I’m concerned. • However, the phenomenon of mammals going into “heat” is not in doubt; and the effect is anything but subtle of feeble. If the mechanism for this is not pheromones then what else would it be… for instance relating to canines and deer. I guess I always assumed that it was pheromones, but that may be mistaken. If pheromones are the mechanism of transmitting information from the female to the male then how does that square with Doty’s claim that the pheromone mechanism exists for insects but not for mammals? The answer to this question should be unambiguous. • As I said, I’m new. Beyond Doty’s research can it be said that there is any “settled science” existing on the topic… Presumably not, but settled science has never quieted contradictory mass self delusion as demonstrated by the preponderance of Climate Cranks running around out there; ditto the lack of skepticism relating to the official explanation of the 3 WTC buildings. • Caveats relating to “learned” behavior seem to me to be beside the point; If the effect is that subtle it effectively does not exist. The efficacy of pheromone attraction fails if it has to fall back on clever or tortuous rationale. I’m wondering if the James Randi foundation has addressed the topic. I’d love to believe that pheromones work but I must admit that my default position is that this is yet another instance of cult reinforced self-delusion. I’ve experienced this before when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had bought into the claims of the herbal concoction PC-spec, which turned out to be fraudulent; but there were a lot of very articulate people who were deceived by it. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/27 "2011-05-05T01:23:51Z")
”Pheromones are defined as substances which are secreted to the outside by an individual and received by a second individual of the same species, in which they release a specific reaction, for example, a definite behavior, or a developmental process.” – Nature. 1959 Jan 3;183(4653):55-6. Pheromones’: a new term for a class of biologically active substances.[KARLSON P](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22KARLSON%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D), [LUSCHER M](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22LUSCHER%20M%22%5BAuthor%5D). From Doty’s book: (p. 3) “A key element of my thesis is that it is erroneous to infer that a plurality of mammalian behaviors and endocrine responses is uniquely determined in an invariant way by single or small sets of chemical stimuli and to apply a generic and misleading name to the presumptive agents in support of such an inference.” No scientist has inferred anything like what Doty says has been inferred. He has taken unscientific claims by those who promote human pheromone enhanced products to make it seem as if there is controversy about whether mammalian pheromones, including [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), exist. There is no controversy, albeit there continues to be discussion about the terms used, such as innate, unlearned, sterotypical et al., which were not used in the original definition. The honeybee model extends the concept of insect pheromones to human pheromones as does my mammalian model that starts with yeast. Doty has not studied pheromones. He simply reviewed the literature, notably excluding anything I’ve published as well as our experimental results. If you are willing to take such an exclusionary approach, I will consider writing a book that details why there is no such thing as food odors using the same logic that Doty uses to say there is no such thing as social odors–when both food odors and social odors act on the same pathways to cause hormone-driven changes in the development of personal preferences. Subtle effects are not considered effects? How much extra salt or sugar is used in food testing to demonstrate an effect of the additive on hormones involved in the perception of our conditioned response to food odors? Clever or tortuous rationale? Read Appetite. 1998 Aug;31(1):1-8. Synthetic approach to the neurobiology of behaviour.[Le Magnen J](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Le%20Magnen%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D). A lightweight? It’s neurobiology, silly! What is it that you think is faulty with regard to our study design and results? James V. Kohl or see Doty’s [www.smelltest.com](http://www.smelltest.com) if you still believe there’s no such thing as mammalian pheromones. (Hint, he hasn’t developed a test for them, so they must not exist). > [@wambrose](#): > > This is my first post. I read the post on Doty’s book first because I have great faith in the scientific, peer reviewed, approach to knowledge and am VERY skeptical of the human propensity to reject cool headed evidence in favor of wishful thinking. If there were anything to this business it could be important to my life, so I am interested. So… I’m thinking: > > • Doty’s arguments must be taken seriously; they are based on measurement and analysis over an extended period of time [according to this post]. Those who would dismiss him as a whack-adoodle are lightweights who can not be taken seriously. > • If pheromones have been proven to have even minimal effect in increasing sexual success we would be saturated with pitches for commercial products making inflated claims even on prime time TV. I haven’t seen any. This is the strongest counter-indicator as far as I’m concerned. > • However, the phenomenon of mammals going into “heat” is not in doubt; and the effect is anything but subtle of feeble. If the mechanism for this is not pheromones then what else would it be… for instance relating to canines and deer. I guess I always assumed that it was pheromones, but that may be mistaken. If pheromones are the mechanism of transmitting information from the female to the male then how does that square with Doty’s claim that the pheromone mechanism exists for insects but not for mammals? The answer to this question should be unambiguous. > • As I said, I’m new. Beyond Doty’s research can it be said that there is any “settled science” existing on the topic… Presumably not, but settled science has never quieted contradictory mass self delusion as demonstrated by the preponderance of Climate Cranks running around out there; ditto the lack of skepticism relating to the official explanation of the 3 WTC buildings. > • Caveats relating to “learned” behavior seem to me to be beside the point; If the effect is that subtle it effectively does not exist. The efficacy of pheromone attraction fails if it has to fall back on clever or tortuous rationale. > > I’m wondering if the James Randi foundation has addressed the topic. I’d love to believe that pheromones work but I must admit that my default position is that this is yet another instance of cult reinforced self-delusion. I’ve experienced this before when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had bought into the claims of the herbal concoction PC-spec, which turned out to be fraudulent; but there were a lot of very articulate people who were deceived by it. ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/28 "2011-05-05T01:57:33Z")
Here is what I think on the subject. And to first put this in context, I’m a research biologist and my research program includes the field of chemical ecology, but not pheromones or humans. [Human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) has become something of a sideline interest of mine, though, and I have read a fair chunk of the peer-reviewed literature including JV Kohl’s work. The wishful thinking that has long lead us astray is not the wish for there to be pheromones. The wishful thinking that has long hampered and mislead entire fields of human psychology, cognition, neuroscience etc. is the wish that we have to be different, special, and most of all NOT ANIMALS. This wishful view (because, indeed, we are animals and apes to boot) comes mostly from religions, but that is a different soap box so I’ll move on. This wishful view has lead to all kinds of non-rational, non-logical reasons to ignore any facet of human biology/psychology that brings us face to face with the reality that we are animals and that free will and rational thought are not the sole rulers of our behavior and decisions. Human behavior “controlled” by chemicals? That we may not even be consciously aware of? That may be steering our mate selection and other major decisions of our lives? Blasphemy. Or so says orthodox beliefs that have too long controlled these scientific fields in many indirect, insidious ways. Think about how much human sexuality (just to name one facet of our behavior) has been quagmired in religious and cultural restrictions and taboos. This has stifled true scientific exploration of human ecology. Were it not for this quagmire that has so long biased our thinking, we would be much further along in understanding pheromones, and other aspects of human chemical ecology. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/29 "2011-05-05T23:57:40Z")
Well said, xev. I hope wambrose will reevaluate his position and comment again on why Doty’s arguments should be considered. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/30 "2011-05-06T12:05:39Z")
> [@jvkohl](#): > > Well said, xev. I hope wambrose will reevaluate his position and comment again on why Doty’s arguments should be considered. > > James V. Kohl > `http://www.pheromones.com` If I had to guess, I’d guess Doty’s a nerdy little guy born and raised in the city who never goes outside or leaves his lab, has never done behavioral studies in the field, owned a dog or a cat, visited a farm, bred animals, or hunted deer during the rut. I really hate to invoke the dreaded “common sense” argument, but really, mammals at large have no pheromones?? Really?? I can actually understand the skepticism about [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) in particular, in that applying the term to us does require some semantic adjustments over how the term has been traditionally used. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/31 "2011-05-07T15:24:07Z")
If he had a current understanding of biology (e.g., molecular biology) there would be no semantic argument. Epigenetic influences are being widely discussed in the current literature, which takes what was once believed about cause and effect to new levels of synthesis with regard to food odors and social odors. People like Doty need to tell us how the effects of social odors (i.e., pheromones) differ from the effects of food odors and attempt to detail whatever differences they propose. If, as has been detailed, both food odors and social odors act via the same evolved pathways, Doty and others like him need to tell us how we should differentiate food odors from social odors if they wish to maintain that mammalian pheromones, including [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) do not exist. For me, food odors are different than pheromones because they come from food, not conspecifics (but that may be too simple to grasp in academia). James V. Kohl `http://www.pheromones.com` > [@xev](#): > > If I had to guess, I’d guess Doty’s a nerdy little guy born and raised in the city who never goes outside or leaves his lab, has never done behavioral studies in the field, owned a dog or a cat, visited a farm, bred animals, or hunted deer during the rut. I really hate to invoke the dreaded “common sense” argument, but really, mammals at large have no pheromones?? Really?? > > I can actually understand the skepticism about human pheromones in particular, in that applying the term to us does require some semantic adjustments over how the term has been traditionally used. ---
**Author:** ![queixada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/97f17d/32.png) [@queixada](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/queixada)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/33 "2011-07-24T19:57:37Z")
I dunno, after going through several bottles of random AD products i’m inclined to believe this iconoclastic Phd director of the Smell and Taste Center at Penn’s School of Medicine guy. might have to find this book. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/34 "2011-07-25T01:56:40Z")
I recommend that you do so. It might comfort you to have someone else explain your lack of success based upon a revamped definition of what he thinks mammalian pheromones should do. (From p. 3 of his book) “A key element of my thesis is that it is erroneous to infer that a plurality of mammalian behaviors and endocrine responses is uniquely determined in an invariant way by single or small sets of chemical stimuli and to apply a generic and misleading name to the presumptive agents in support of such an inference.” Who inferred what? In other words, Doty thinks that [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) should cause a stereotypical and unlearned (i.e., an innate) behavioral response that allows even you to attract some women. The downside to reading his book is the reports from others who have had success with pheromone-enhanced products. Such reports indicate that you might be responsible for your reported product failure. So, you might also want to read my book and peer-reviewed publications, as well as experimental results that show a mixture of androsterone and androstenol increase flirtatious behavior and attraction to a man who is wearing the mixture during a 15 minute social interaction with the women whose observed behavior changes, and increased level of attraction is reported. Even though my research and our results do not guarantee your success, they help to ensure your understanding of what pheromones can and cannot do. James V. Kohl `http://www.pheromones.com` > [@queixada](#): > > I dunno, after going through several bottles of random AD products i’m inclined to believe this iconoclastic Phd director of the Smell and Taste Center at Penn’s School of Medicine guy. might have to find this book. ---
**Author:** ![queixada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/97f17d/32.png) [@queixada](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/queixada)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/35 "2011-07-26T17:57:32Z")
> [@jvkohl](#): > > Who inferred what? In other words, Doty thinks that human pheromones should cause a stereotypical and unlearned (i.e., an innate) behavioral response that allows even you to attract some women. > > James V. Kohl > `http://www.pheromones.com` …ouch. Right here, man. (points to chest) ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/36 "2011-07-26T18:06:04Z")
> [@queixada](#): > > …ouch. Right here, man. (points to chest) Sorry, I felt forced to defend my accurate conceptualization of [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), and that sometimes requires shooting down others. Hope you recover from your wound and learn to better appreciate the positive, albeit sometimes subtle affects, of human pheromones. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![jesuitofdelphi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jesuitofdelphi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jesuitofdelphi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/37 "2011-07-26T21:54:53Z")
I’m not particularly concerned by Doty’s perspective; not because I believe it carries any water, but because reading the first section of his book illustrates that his theory doesn’t get off the ground for his supports and warrants to matter. He’s certainly right to assert that neurophysiology doesn’t allow for a simple, linear domino effect of one chemical influence barring all other factors. But that’s like say that a storm in Louisiana doesn’t influence weather in the tri-state area. Isolated events are part of the elaborate on-going decision tree that allows the human brain to function both consistently and intuitively in light of the many variable responses in play in the same moment. Doty is arguing against something that no self-respecting scientist would debate, and is then using that claim as a support for his primary thesis without ever giving the warrant between the two. Someone who has also read the book, please tell me if I’m missing the warrant somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/38 "2011-07-27T00:32:35Z")
> [@bpc04a](#): > > Someone who has also read the book, please tell me if I’m missing the warrant somewhere. I’ve read it and reviewed it on my site and on others, including “The First Nerve” which is Avery Gilbert’s site. [First Nerve: Out of the Shadows: I No Longer Believe in Human Pheromones](http://firstnerve.com/2010/12/out-of-shadows-i-no-longer-believe-in.html?showComment=1292196946781#c7470634747426650007) It surprised me that Avery, as well as a few other olfactory researchers who have earned my respect, bought into Doty’s misrepresentation of the concept. But that is a tribute to Doty’s writing style. He made his whole thesis so convoluted that others outside [pheromone research](https://pheromonelabs.com/) were actually convinced he knew what he was writing about. The only way he was able to pull this off was to completely exclude anything I have ever said, presented, or published about mammalian pheromones, including human pheromones. His thesis immediately falls apart with minimal mention of known neurophysiological processes. He markets his book by claiming it’s controversial, which it is not. It’s just wrong. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![jesuitofdelphi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jesuitofdelphi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jesuitofdelphi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/39 "2011-07-27T04:46:07Z")
> [@jvkohl](#): > > The only way he was able to pull this off was to completely exclude anything I have ever said, presented, or published about mammalian pheromones, including human pheromones. His thesis immediately falls apart with minimal mention of known neurophysiological processes. > > He markets his book by claiming it’s controversial, which it is not. It’s just wrong. > > James V. Kohl > `http://www.pheromones.com` Thanks, James. That assessment sounded about right. I’m glad I’m not just reading polemically. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/40 "2011-07-27T14:05:12Z")
> [@bpc04a](#): > > Thanks, James. That assessment sounded about right. I’m glad I’m not just reading polemically. That’s a good point. Those that want to believe there’s no such thing as mammalian pheromones will enjoy Doty’s misrepresentations. But Avery Gilbert knows enough about my work to at least wonder why Doty did not mention it. So do many of the other researchers, most of whom have discounted Doty’s “evidence” that mammalian pheromones don’t exist, in favor of the overwhelmingly large body of scientific literature that assures us they do. Besides, these guys have attended at least one or more conferences where I have presented our results showing behavioral affects on women of an androsterone/androstenol mix. They should not require a personal invitation to look at the results, or to allow me to explain our study design and significance of our findings. “Sorry, I didn’t have time to look at your presentation on [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) because I was trying to write a book in between conferences sessions” seems to be a rather feeble excuse to ignore up-to-date evidence that is now available for all to see. [http://posters.f1000.com/Image?posterID=1387&type=poster](http://posters.f1000.com/Image?posterID=1387&type=poster) To his credit, Avery Gilbert wrote a book about the sense of smell, and did not write about pheromones because he is not involved in that research. But he might better have avoided writing anything about Doty’s book for the same reason, especially since he knows that Doty does not do research on mammalian pheromones, but has long held the opinion that they don’t exist. Opinion versus evidence predicts a poor outcome of opinion-based book marketing. I’m surprised that Doty has had any success in this regard. James V. Kohl ---
**Author:** ![queixada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/97f17d/32.png) [@queixada](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/queixada)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328/41 "2011-07-27T17:06:00Z")
> [@jvkohl](#): > > Sorry, I felt forced to defend my accurate conceptualization of human pheromones, and that sometimes requires shooting down others. Hope you recover from your wound and learn to better appreciate the positive, albeit sometimes subtle affects, of human pheromones. > > James V. Kohl > [www.pheromones.com](http://www.pheromones.com) take it easy killer, i’m just some faceless guy at the other end of a keyboard and my opinions aren’t worth a damn and shouldn’t offend anyone with half a brain especially considering the fact that I NEVER intended on offending anyone in the first place. You shouldn’t feel “required” to “shoot people down” the moment someone has their own point of view that differs from your own. especially when the topic in question is something as absolutely trivial and frivolous as the positive, albeit sometimes subtle affects, of [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/). [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-a-myth-in-mammals/43328.md?page=3)