# pheromones and entheogens **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [March 24, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708 "2007-03-24T20:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/1 "2007-03-24T20:15:35Z")
So. I have a bed-friend with whom I share a mutual interest in many good things - poetry, travel, emotions, Japanese rope bondage, visions, entheogens - and now pheromones. Recently we have been experimenting with the visionary states induced by a plant (legal in most parts of the world) called Salvia Divinorum. The Mazatec shamans in Oaxaca, Mexico ask the aid of the Diviners Sage to find lost things (including souls), to foretell the future, and to travel in spirit form to other places. The ally who lives in the plant can be very unpredictable when compared to those which reside within psilocybe mushrooms for example, and the visions produced by ingesting the plant can be very strange and sometimes quite, quite terrifying. We had experimented separately prior to deciding to experiment together, and we had both had unnerving trips which had made us a little apprehensive in dealing with Her again. Sally D, like many other plant allies, does not respect fear. She is not as demanding of her votaries as some (like Datura), but she still requires one to approach Her with a modicum of respect, some humility and just a little courage. In order to make our first trip a little easier to deal with we used 2 sprays of Instant Shine directly onto our faces, 8 sprays each of Instant Honesty on various body parts (neck, breasts/chest, thighs, genitals), and I sprayed 2 shots of IMF onto my hair. We made love for a few hours, then smoked 8 large joints of Salvia between us over what may have been 2 hours (I decided to stop watching the clock when it melted in Daliesque fashion). The love-making was much gentler than is usual for us, and there were times when she and I were doing nothing but staring into one another’s eyes and breathing in unison. The ally opened a door for us to enter Her realm and I felt a sensation of being sucked downwards and to the left into a vortex. (My bedfriend claimed to have felt the same pull when she and I compared notes later.) I was somewhat expecting this, but I sensed some fear in my bedfriend which I attempted to banish by nuzzling her neck (and thus having her breath in large lungfuls of the [Instant Female Magic](https://a314.com/product/instant-female-magic/) in my hair). This had the desired effect and she began to shiver with pleasure. There was some sort of resonance set in motion by the power of the plant, and the molecules making up my body began to vibrate at the same rate as her body. There was a sudden shock when I noticed that my thighs and hers had melded together, but once I got past the fear there was a very wonderful sensation of being part of a sea of vibrating bliss in which the various parts of body, mind and soul of my bed-friend and I mixed and mingled and became indistinguishable. It is difficult to describe the intensity and wonder of this stage in the vision, so I will not try. But either my bed-friend or I began to weep with joy. Some more Salvia was smoked and there were some visions (none of which are really worth putting into words). There was a period during the trip where we both became “separated” and had our own visions which were not pleasant. I had the intuition that Sally D is very secretive and “shy” and does not like parties of people rampaging through Her domain unless they are joined intellectually, emotionally (and perhaps in other ways) with a desire to learn from Her. I felt that the Instant Shine helped somewhat to reduce the nervousness we both had before embarking on this voyage, and helped to make the sex a lot happier and care-free, that the Instant Honesty charged the sex with a lot more “meaning” and helped to create a bond that kept us from pursuing separate visions, and that the Instant Female Magic made my bed-friend a little more relaxed. It is quite odd, because I had not really noticed any effect from Instant Shine prior to this experience, but I definitely feel that it made things a little “lighter” and more fun during the trip. Heavy emotions, like fear and anger and even too much expectation, can drag one into very unpleasant visions, and it’s my experience that it only takes a little push for the Salvia visions to become nightmarish, especially at higher concentrations of the plant when it becomes impossible to pull out of the vision. ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/2 "2007-03-24T20:22:08Z")
this is fascinating stuff. thanks for sharing. I’ve never heard of Salvia. is it legal in the states? ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/3 "2007-03-24T20:40:24Z")
> [@Nunya](#): > > this is fascinating stuff. > > thanks for sharing. I’ve never heard of Salvia. is it legal in the states? Hi, Nunya. I believe that the leaves are still legal in the USA, except in Louisiana, Missouri, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Delaware, though there have been attempts to restrict its use in other states. You might find this page useful: [The Legal Status of Salvia divinorum](http://www.sagewisdom.org/legalstatus.html) Regards, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/4 "2007-03-24T21:51:03Z")
actually i take that back - i think I may have heard of this. does it come in capsule form, by any chance? in any case - i’ve got this friend that’s been curious about datura, as he wants to vision quest. since this is a legal option for the moment, i think i will tell him about it. ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/5 "2007-03-25T17:07:45Z")
Hola. > [@Nunya](#): > > actually i take that back - i think I may have heard of this. does it come in capsule form, by any chance? > > in any case - i’ve got this friend that’s been curious about datura, as he wants to vision quest. since this is a legal option for the moment, i think i will tell him about it. You can purchase the Salvia leaves whole, the extract is usually in powder form, and you can buy it in liquid form to use sublingually. I’ve never seen Salvia in capsule form, but that’s not to say it doesn’t exist. I would recommend that your friend does a lot of research before trying Datura. With a healthy dose the trips are intense and they last for days. Too strong a dose, and your friend’s sitter will have a dead body on his hands. The Salvia trip, if he smokes the extract, is usually over in a matter of minutes. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss this further. Regards, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/6 "2007-03-25T18:37:09Z")
she and I are well acquainted… to appraciate salvia, know from the beginning that it is a master teacher, not a hedonic self indulgent experience. The nature of it is the nature of it. There is no problem if you enter the domain with the attitude of an open minded student who sincerely intends to lean from the experience. Salvia is the destroyer of arrogance. The terror of salvia is having one’s arrogance thrust directly in one’s face in a language one has yet to understand. The guides one will meet on the other side of the salvia veil counsel deep humility, that is the tone of their voice. ---
**Author:** ![Godhand](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/godhand/32/2378_2.png) [@Godhand](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Godhand)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/7 "2007-03-25T20:19:19Z")
I need to find some of them leaves right now!!! _LOL_ Sound like some Carlos Castaneda / Jeremy Narby stuff. I’ve heard of Canibus Datura in one of Carlos Castaneda’s books (forgot which one it was). I’m reluctant to try it because of the desciption of red-colored vision. If that is correct, then it has to be hell on the eyes. I’ve never heard of Salvia Divinorum before. Might be worth checking into. On the trip scale, how powerful is it compared to some of the others (shrooms, buttons, etc.)? ---
**Author:** ![ilsa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ilsa/32/1552_2.png) [@ilsa](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ilsa)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/8 "2007-03-25T23:10:45Z")
I bought a Salvia Divinorum plant from a local herbfarm several years ago, but I only used it for a specimin plant in my herb garden. If anyone wants to know the link to their website, just send me a PM. I am pretty sure that they still sell it. I would strongly caution and warn anyone who is considering using datura for anything other than pretty flowering plant in your landscaping. There have been many many recorded cases of people suffering _ **brain** **damage** _, and even _ **death** _ from using this. It is highly toxic. It just isn’t worth it. [Erowid Datura Vault : Health](http://www.erowid.org/plants/datura/datura_health.shtml) And an excerpt from this article: [Datura stramonium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium) The doses that cause noticeable effects, and the doses that can kill are very close with datura. This makes overdosing on _Datura stramonium_ very easy. This can be fatal; it can cause fevers in the 105-110 (40-43°C) range which is a range that can kill brain cells, and lead to brain damage. There have been many instances of teenagers looking for a cheap high poisoning themselves to death on datura. If someone overdoses on datura it is advised to cause vomiting, to wash out his or her stomach, and to get the person hospitalized immediately. If taken recreationally the user does not notice any conscious effects, no matter how bizarre, for quite a while, which is why overdoses are so common; most people redose, thinking it’s not working. The user doesn’t realize that he or she was hallucinating. Some users have reported seeing an array of people from their lives. A few anecdotal reports also mention the user’s perception of “phantom cigarettes”; the person believes that he or she is smoking a cigarette only to find that it has disappeared later, thus realizing that it never existed. At the peak of such experiences users often enter a true [psychotomimetic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotomimetic) state, in which they “lose touch with reality” altogether; at this point, many find it difficult or impossible to communicate with others [Datura (Joy Juice) and the Werewolves](http://www.stjohnbeachguide.com/Joy%20Juice%20and%20Werewolves.htm) Those are just a few sources. Do a Google search and you will find more. ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/9 "2007-03-26T13:51:50Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > she and I are well acquainted… to appraciate salvia, know from the beginning that it is a master teacher, not a hedonic self indulgent experience. The nature of it is the nature of it. There is no problem if you enter the domain with the attitude of an open minded student who sincerely intends to lean from the experience. Salvia is the destroyer of arrogance. The terror of salvia is having one’s arrogance thrust directly in one’s face in a language one has yet to understand. The guides one will meet on the other side of the salvia veil counsel deep humility, that is the tone of their voice. Hola. I believe you are right about Salvia teaching humility before She teaches anything else. All of my experiences with Salvia were unpleasant until I learned to approach her with the proper respect. The sex and [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) were to enhance the ability of my bed-friend and I to ‘travel’ together in Salvia’s domain, we didn’t use the salvia to add a little kink to our love-making (we have other tools for that). The pheromones certainly seemed to help to engender a synergy between my bed-friend and I, and allowed us to share a “oneness of purpose” before we approached Her. I’d be interested in your experiences with Salvia, if you would care to share them. Regards, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/10 "2007-03-26T13:59:53Z")
> [@Godhand](#): > > I need to find some of them leaves right now!!! _LOL_ > > Sound like some Carlos Castaneda / Jeremy Narby stuff. I’ve heard of Canibus Datura in one of Carlos Castaneda’s books (forgot which one it was). I’m reluctant to try it because of the desciption of red-colored vision. If that is correct, then it has to be hell on the eyes. I’ve never heard of Salvia Divinorum before. Might be worth checking into. On the trip scale, how powerful is it compared to some of the others (shrooms, buttons, etc.)? Hey. If memory serves, Don Juan relates experiences with mescaline and a herbal concoction he called fumito (little smoke). Castaneda also experiments with datura stramonium (or perhaps another species of the same plant - ceratocaula, inoxia, etc) under the direction of Don Juan, but Don Juan was not a big fan of datura. The salvia experience is much more sudden and intense than your average mushroom trip. It’s rather difficult to compare it with any other hallucinogen, and the results vary widely dependping on whether you take the leaves or smoke the extract. You may like to consult the vaults at [Erowid](http://www.erowid.org) if you want to read some trip reports. Tchau, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/11 "2007-03-26T17:13:32Z")
Salvia can be intense… although I’ve not been to the outer fringers of what it has been reported to do… it consistently generates reports of contact with other sentient elements… there is first a dense veil of dark green, vegetative, biologic… and some only get to the veil and turn back… then the veil parts in a fraction of a second and one is in another space-time continuum where some form of dialog takes place… for me, and as I have read, the interaction feels like one is speaking with ancient entities, hundreds of years old at the minimum, who have a great healing perspective to impart… you shouldn’t go it with the idea that you will tell them, or it, what you think you deserve… the noxious sense of entitlement that one often see in stimulant abusers could well be blown to fragments by the power of this journey… becasue there is an almost total loss of self, there is no place to assert the ego… so one must be in a mind set of pure attendance, pure listening… ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/12 "2007-03-26T18:49:20Z")
ok these seem like pretty intense experiences for jsut a few minutes at a time. how does that work exactly? ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/13 "2007-03-26T22:01:57Z")
the acitve ingredient is Salvinorin-A, believed to activate a previously undocumented receptor site in the brain… in other words, its mode of action is unlike any other known psychoactive… pure Salvinorin-A is highly potent, estimated in the microgram-milligram range, and cannot be ingested as stomach acid or enzymes destroy it, but can be absorbed though oral membranes or smoked. Duration of experience is about 20 minutes maximum… higher doses reported to be mind boggling even to experienced psychedelic users, and not particularly entertaining in the way hedonic psycoactives are, hence a surprisingly low potential for abuse… more people appear to report one time to rare or infrequent use associated with moments of great learning… in low doses some find it powerfully pro-erotic although also dissociative… one should not use it unsupervised as higher doses lead to a full disconnect with present time reality… I’d rate it as having high therapeutic potential, certainly not a substitute for an excellent therapist, although given the right conditions, can clear away a lot of clutter in short order… ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/14 "2007-03-27T18:25:51Z")
> [@Nunya](#): > > ok these seem like pretty intense experiences for jsut a few minutes at a time. > > how does that work exactly? Tacitus has already covered the science of it and given the gist of the Salvia experience. Needless to say, time is distorted with many psychedelics, but Salvia has a lovely way of dilating time. In early trips I would meld with random things within my sphere of vision and stay united with it for what seemed like an eternity. For example, one of the first times I smoked the x5 extract, I ended up becoming one of the walls in my bedroom. I felt that I had been the wall since the house was built, and shared the whole of what the wall had experienced in that time. The trip seemed to last for years, but when the effect wore off and I checked the time, only 12 minutes had passed in “real” time. Similarly, the visions of Salvia can appear to last for a very long time when you are gone only for a few minutes by standard time. One has to spend a great deal of time reflecting on the vision after Salvia has pushed you out of her domain to make much sense of it. Regards, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![Astralmind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astralmind/32/942_2.png) [@Astralmind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astralmind)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/15 "2007-03-27T18:33:16Z")
Thanks Alphonse and Tacitus for the info. I will have to give this a try. I’m not a “drug user” .. read smoked a joint twice in my life but this sounds like something I would enjoy trying. Would 10x be too strong as a first purchase ? ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/16 "2007-03-27T18:40:09Z")
fascinating stuff. thank you both for the info. I have to admit I’m intrigued myself now. ---
**Author:** ![Alphonse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Alphonse](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alphonse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/17 "2007-03-27T18:52:18Z")
> [@Astralmind](#): > > Thanks Alphonse and Tacitus for the info. > > I will have to give this a try. I’m not a “drug user” .. read smoked a joint twice in my life but this sounds like something I would enjoy trying. > > Would 10x be too strong as a first purchase ? Hi, Astralmind. I would go for the leaves before the extract, just because the extract can be overpowering if you are sensitive. The leaves are much gentler, but sometimes they are not enough to obtain a full experience. If you opt for the extract, buy yourself a pipe and a butane lighter because the extract needs to be burned at a very high temperature (you will need to hold the hottest part of the flame directly above the extract). The smoke is hot and harsh but you will have to hold it in your lungs for as long as possible. Do some research at [Erowid](http://www.erowid.com) and [The Salvia divinorum Research and Information Center](http://www.sagewisdom.org) before you make any decisions. It helps if you know your ally well before you invite yourself over to meet Her. Hope this helps, Alphonse. ---
**Author:** ![b0ngman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9adbd/32.png) [@b0ngman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/b0ngman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-and-entheogens/2708/18 "2007-03-27T23:16:18Z")
salvia is a waste of time… it isn’t really a psychedelic… it just makes you feel retarded for a minute or two… nothing special happening upstairs. If you really want to have some fun head out to your local cow field and pick some mushrooms, by a sonoran desert toad and extract the 5-meo-dmt. OR buy a cactus off the internet and trip off of the mescaline. I think there is a place that sells dried cactus on the internet, you just grind it up and throw it in empty pills and swallow them down.