# Pheromones as approach crutch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [May 23, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816 "2007-05-23T19:11:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/1 "2007-05-23T19:11:53Z")
I’m curious about some users using [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) as a crutch to overcome social anxiety. I have read several posts about users asking if pheromones will help them overcome shyness. My curiosity is not so much geared toward shyness, but in general social situations relating to female/male interactions. In myself I have consciously made it a point to self observe myself in situations that I am not wearing pheromones and how I approach social interactions. Before I started observing personal behavior there were several occasions that while not wearing pheromones I did not interact with others. I felt myself pulling away from social interactions, making excuses like I just don’t feel social, but this only happened when I wasn’t wearing the pheromones. This type of behavior would lead me to believe that perhaps pheromones might actually on a sub-communication level be hindering our natural progression of social awareness. If a user, who is socially awkward, is finding it easier to talk with people, because of the pheromones, than perhaps that same user will retreat away from interactions when not wearing the pheromones. This same type of behavior can be tied to other stimulants, such as narcotics and alcohol. In essence by using pheromones as a social stimulant is it not possible that we are in essence creating a social crutch that once removed could drive the individual deeper into social anxiety? Wondering what other users think of this. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/2 "2007-05-23T19:20:55Z")
Talking about myself as I am today, I don’t find problems talking to strangers like I did when I was younger. On the other hand if a girl doesn’t smile at me I’m not so sure I’ll just go to talk at her (esp. if she looks angrily at me 😮).. If pheromones can help women feel relaxed in my presence (& smile at me first or after I smile at them like I usually do), then they will be a good aid for getting to know new women, rather than a crutch. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/3 "2007-05-23T19:28:19Z")
Yes, that is understood, but what I’m speaking about is approaching and being social when you are not wearing pheromones. That’s the key, are users here not approaching, or making excuses why an approach went wrong because of the lack of pheromones? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/4 "2007-05-23T19:53:39Z")
I would try to approach but I’m not seeing too many smiles when I don’t use pheros… I’m smiling just the same mind you. Today I Was wearing instant honesty and saw a foreign spanish woman smile at me. So I don’t know it might be the local culture that girls don’t smile at strangers… I didn’t go and talk to her, mind you.. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/5 "2007-05-23T22:26:13Z")
> [@steveo](#): > > I’m curious about some users using pheromones as a crutch to overcome social anxiety. I have read several posts about users asking if pheromones will help them overcome shyness. > > My curiosity is not so much geared toward shyness, but in general social situations relating to female/male interactions. In myself I have consciously made it a point to self observe myself in situations that I am not wearing pheromones and how I approach social interactions. Before I started observing personal behavior there were several occasions that while not wearing pheromones I did not interact with others. I felt myself pulling away from social interactions, making excuses like I just don’t feel social, but this only happened when I wasn’t wearing the pheromones. > > This type of behavior would lead me to believe that perhaps pheromones might actually on a sub-communication level be hindering our natural progression of social awareness. If a user, who is socially awkward, is finding it easier to talk with people, because of the pheromones, than perhaps that same user will retreat away from interactions when not wearing the pheromones. > > This same type of behavior can be tied to other stimulants, such as narcotics and alcohol. In essence by using pheromones as a social stimulant is it not possible that we are in essence creating a social crutch that once removed could drive the individual deeper into social anxiety? > > Wondering what other users think of this. Pheromones don’t to me seem to act as stimulants - ie I don’t like the analogy. Suppose you have never made a cold approach and that pheromones give you the confidence to start doing so and that after a couple of years of mone use you have opened a few thousand sets. have developed good calibration skills and have figured out how to deal with the various contingencies that come up. And then lets say that over time through being more social you have developed various interests and skills that make you are more interesting person and by spending more time with women you have become a superior lover and companion. If you were then to give up mones, do you think that one would be in a worse position than originally? I do think that it’s good to take regular breaks, and get used to the discomfort of approaching when you don’t have a pheromonal arsenal as backup. But for me I find it hard to consider not buying in to the tacitus frame of mones = social learning accelerants. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/6 "2007-05-23T22:46:58Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > Pheromones don’t to me seem to act as stimulants - ie I don’t like the analogy. Suppose you have never made a cold approach and that pheromones give you the confidence to start doing so and that after a couple of years of pheromone use you have opened a few thousand sets. have developed good calibration skills and have figured out how to deal with the various contingencies that come up. And then lets say that over time through being more social you have developed various interests and skills that make you are more interesting person and by spending more time with women you have become a superior lover and companion. If you were then to give up pheromones, do you think that one would be in a worse position than originally? > > I do think that it’s good to take regular breaks, and get used to the discomfort of approaching when you don’t have a pheromonal arsenal as backup. But for me I find it hard to consider not buying in to the tacitus frame of pheromones = social learning accelerants. Yes, but now instead of pheromones substitute them with alcohol, marijuana, crack, meth, heroin, etc. The same could be said that using another substance to obtain the desired results of overcoming social anxieties might be beneficial until said substance is removed from the mix. So in that regard if I equate pheromones with the same type of inhibitions remover as alcohol and then remove pheromones from the mix I might actually be conditioning my behavior to act upon the substance rather than developing natural abilities. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 10:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/7 "2007-05-23T22:59:40Z")
> [@steveo](#): > > Yes, but now instead of pheromones substitute them with alcohol, marijuana, crack, meth, heroin, etc. The same could be said that using another substance to obtain the desired results of overcoming social anxieties might be beneficial until said substance is removed from the mix. > > So in that regard if I equate pheromones with the same type of inhibitions remover as alcohol and then remove pheromones from the mix I might actually be conditioning my behavior to act upon the substance rather than developing natural abilities. But mones aren’t noxious, addictive drugs… and their effects are obviously along a different axis. I’ve been modulating my pheromonal signature for over ten years now (via supplemental pregnenolone), and it has never occurred to me to think oh no I can’t talk to her I ran out of pregnenolone. (Even though I know that over time I will get much better results if taking pregnenolone than if not). Having a picture of you succeeding in a certain kind of context is tremendously encouraging for you to try even if one or two of the things around that are different. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 12:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/8 "2007-05-24T00:38:36Z")
Steveo, I’ve wondered about pheros as a crutch, and withdrawal as well. You’ve done the exercise of substituting dope for pheros and you don’t like the feeling you get. Now substitute a good haircut, or clothes that are stylish and clean … how good would you be at sarging if you had to do it and you were suddenly afflicted with mange? Or if you had to wear clothes that made you feel really uncomfortable? When you make benign substitutions of “doing without” it’s not as creepy. Any tool we use takes us prisoner, in a way. Imagine doing without your computer, or without the internet. Perhaps it’s your unconscious mind that’s reminding you of this: you will miss pheros when you don’t have them. It’s all good, though. You can still do math without a calculator. But why not use the calculator when it’s available? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 11:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/9 "2007-05-24T11:26:59Z")
I think Mark has got it right on target. Life without pheromones isn’t the end of the world. I just think that women can come to see my self more clearly, with pheromones. I don’t have to use them every time, of course. At work, there are benefits to using them too… ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/10 "2007-05-24T16:05:06Z")
I always found that if I was in the right mindset, approach anxiety would never faze me. Faze me meaning the feeling is still there but I’m able to ignore it and all is well. By mindset I mean being in the prime mental state of being a fearless social animal. At times I’d be scared shitless regardless of whatever means I’d try. Pheros can take the edge off of approach considerably. For both the approacher and the approachees. It’s easy to see how one can get accustomed to it. Suddenly take away baby’s bottle(s) and things will get rocky. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/11 "2007-05-24T16:33:47Z")
What bothers me often is that I find approachees rarely seem to smile.. perhaps they are depressed I don’t know.. Well with pheros they tend to smile more.. ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/12 "2007-05-28T22:50:47Z")
Pheromones open a door, but you have to walk through it. If you use them as a crutch, and don’t practice good human relations skills, it could come back to haunt you later. But who would choose to do it this way? If you walk through the door, and practice great human relations, those skills and new brain patterns will stay with you forever. Incidentally, you can cultivate natural pheromone practices which will benefit you the rest of your life, without store bought products. There is no downside to this practice, and it’s also forever. ---
**Author:** ![Holmes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/holmes/32/2128_2.png) [@Holmes](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Holmes)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/13 "2007-05-28T23:27:52Z")
Using pheromones as an emotional crutch without doing the work is asking for trouble. It would be like buying a Les Paul, leaving it in the case, drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels everyday for three months and saying “Why am I not Slash yet?” I would hope that any responsible phero-wearer realizes that. > [@](#): > > That’s the key, are users here not approaching, or making excuses why an approach went wrong because of the lack of pheromones? Speaking for myself…God, no. I would never in a million years give pheromones THAT much credit for any of my successes. If something went wrong, it’s because I was stupid or because the situation wasn’t right. I approach (I love the use of that word - it’s so Nature Channel) the same way regardless. I’m me, for better or worse, and pheromones, while useful in certain situations, never amount to a difference between night and day as tools of influence. You can use pheromones to encourage yourself to take more chances, provided you actually take those chances. Having the confidence to stick your neck out repeatedly will rewire your brain. To that end, pheromones (as a boost - real or imagined) can help provide longterm benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/14 "2007-05-28T23:51:23Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > Incidentally, you can cultivate natural pheromone practices which will benefit you the rest of your life, without store bought products. There is no downside to this practice, and it’s also forever. Very interesting! Please define a “natural [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) practice,” and what type of behaviors would constitute cultivation. ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/15 "2007-05-29T00:27:26Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > Very interesting! Please define a “natural pheromone practice,” and what type of behaviors would constitute cultivation. I’ve written extensively on it at the other phero site. Go to love-scent, search for “not bathing for a week”, read the thread, and get back to me. Don’t be scared. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/16 "2007-05-29T04:28:43Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > I’ve written extensively on it at the other phero site. Go to love-scent, search for “not bathing for a week”, read the thread, and get back to me. Don’t be scared. 😉 OK. Not that different from my usual practice. I bathe and/or shower daily but avoid soap for the most part. I do clean artificial pheromone application points with soap or shampoo on a regular basis though. I’ve been using this minimal-soap approach for years, long before trying [artificial pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/). The artificials have a definite effect over and above natural pheromone production, for me at least. BTW … the thread you referenced was quite amusing. It was fun sorting out the, shall we say, wheat from the chaff. Although urine and feces do, I’m sure, contain a number of pheromones, I think I’ll pass on applying them to myself. Some people may be dissapointed, (at least according to reports in the no-bathing thread) but since I have to live with myself 24/7, I figure my vote counts more than theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/17 "2007-06-18T01:24:10Z")
I think wearing pheromones has acted as an incentive for me to try an approach when I migh not have. partially as an experiement, and partially my own attitude that I spent good money on the darn stuff let’s not “waste” it… There have been times when I am pheromone-product-less that I feel a _little_ hesitant to approach I do admit. Not often though. I have to keep in mind that the [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/) may only contribute 5-10% of the “successes” and my own personality etc are the other 90-95%. I think I am more bothered if I have a bad hair day over being pheromone-less. Just some quick thoughs. ---
**Author:** ![GrandHustle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71e660/32.png) [@GrandHustle](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/GrandHustle)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/18 "2007-06-23T13:33:36Z")
> [@steveo](#): > > Yes, but now instead of pheromones substitute them with alcohol, marijuana, crack, meth, heroin, etc. The same could be said that using another substance to obtain the desired results of overcoming social anxieties might be beneficial until said substance is removed from the mix. > > So in that regard if I equate pheromones with the same type of inhibitions remover as alcohol and then remove pheromones from the mix I might actually be conditioning my behavior to act upon the substance rather than developing natural abilities. That’s a really ludicrous comparison man. Drugs effect brain chemistry and thus behavior in that respect. Pheromones are a completely different animal. Drugs develop chemical dependency in people. I’d continue, but its just really not comparable. ---
**Author:** ![rollercoaster](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rollercoaster/32/2361_2.png) [@rollercoaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/rollercoaster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-approach-crutch/3816/19 "2007-06-23T13:55:34Z")
grand hustle, while i totally agree with you, pheromones also effect brain chemistry. thing is, with drugs and alcohol etc, you intoxicate your own body, and cloud the brain, pheromones dont really have that kind of effect on you (well except for spaceland 😉 ) you can be totally sober and clear in the head when using pheromones. besides pheromones are dont kill braincells like some drugs do, or put them to sleep like alcohol. (or atleast i hope not, as we would then be constantly killing our own and other peoples brain cells just by being alive ^^ )