# Pheromones as Serotonin enhancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [May 14, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617 "2008-05-14T12:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/1 "2008-05-14T12:41:22Z")
Hi guys! If I’m not mistaken [pheromones](https://a314.com/) work by increasing the levels of specific hormones or neurotransmitters in the recipient, right? Are there any studies as to which of the pheromones raise the serotonin level - especially in women? I’d guess it would be TAA and -Androstadienone? bb ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/2 "2008-05-14T12:44:01Z")
hmmm… interesting. can somebody explain on this? ---
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/3 "2008-05-14T12:59:53Z")
is this true becuase this can be scary if you think about it? there are people who are on antidepressant that raises serotonin levels such as zoloft, it is possible you can overdose and get serotonin syndrome by mixing two or more antidepressants? also this brings me to another question and I am not a doctor or pharmacist so what i might be asking can make no sense at all. For example I take a drug called topamax to prevent migraines, it is great drug, it also helps to lose weight and prevents seizures, it actually does a hosts of others things like treats bipolar, but here is the kicker, they have no real clue how it works, well they sort of but not really, from what I understand, half of these drugs that mess with your mind they have no clue how it works my question is I wonder if i will get different self effects of the pheros say from Tac then others would who are not on Topamax? just a thought, i am not worried about bad interaction, just throwing out it there. then again i might be talking out of my ass LOL ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/4 "2008-05-14T16:08:20Z")
I’ve read some posts about people having a come down after high doses of TAA. One of the reasons could be that a lot of TAA sets free a lot of serotonine, so that it actually depletes the serotonine depots of the brain. From what I’ve read today about the functions of serotonine I could bet that this topamax stuff actually rises the serotonine level or prevents it’s destruction. Hightened levels work against migraine, reduce appetite and is great against depressions… ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/5 "2008-05-14T16:12:36Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > I’ve read some posts about people having a come down after high doses of TAA. One of the reasons could be that a lot of TAA sets free a lot of serotonine, so that it actually depletes the serotonine depots of the brain. > > … TAA depletes serotonine depots of the brain? What are the effects? cause migraine, depression? Is this happened to man and woman? ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/6 "2008-05-14T16:16:00Z")
Only if you use very high doses and certainly not in everyone!! I think I’ve read in Andrews thread about his [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) x8 about someone having a big come down after a giant dose of IShine… And it’s only a _theory_!!! ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/7 "2008-05-14T16:20:36Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > Only if you use very high doses and certainly not in everyone!! I think I’ve read in Andrews thread about his Instant Shine x8 about someone having a big come down after a giant dose of IShine… And it’s only a _theory_!!! Thank you bubblebob for prompt reply. Just curious, TAA is supposed to lighten the mood. Does that mean, depletion of little serotonine lift mood? And depletion of too much serotonine caused depression? Or TAA has other chemistry that lift mood and nothing to do with serotonine? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/8 "2008-05-14T16:30:33Z")
If your brain sets serotonine free it will lift your mood. Now your brain has a depot of these neurotransmitter. If it sets free too much serotonine over a too long time, these depots can not be refilled in time and become empty. That’s when you experience a big come down in mood… As long as your brain is able to refill the depots you’ll not experience this crash at the end. The part that TAA actually has to do with serotonine levels is - as I said - only a theory. But I can’t imagine how else it could modify your mood… ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/9 "2008-05-14T16:31:54Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > If your brain sets serotonine free it will lift your mood. Now your brain has a depot of these neurotransmitter. If it sets free too much serotonine over a too long time, these depots can not be refilled in time and become empty. That’s when you experience a big come down in mood… As long as your brain is able to refill the depots you’ll not experience this crash at the end. > > The part that TAA actually has to do with serotonine levels is - as I said - only a theory. But I can’t imagine how else it could modify your mood… Thank you ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/10 "2008-05-14T16:34:19Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > If your brain sets serotonine free it will lift your mood. Now your brain has a depot of these neurotransmitter. If it sets free too much serotonine over a too long time, these depots can not be refilled in time and become empty. That’s when you experience a big come down in mood… As long as your brain is able to refill the depots you’ll not experience this crash at the end. > > The part that TAA actually has to do with serotonine levels is - as I said - only a theory. But I can’t imagine how else it could modify your mood… rep for you ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/11 "2008-05-14T17:45:31Z")
Gee this could thread could have come in handy a couple weeks ago. > [@Instant Shine EXTREME (x8)](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-shine-extreme-x8/10924/79): > > The safe zone seems to very different in one particular individual. She experienced a negative comedown with 2 sprays of IS 2x. I’ll elaborate. Here’s a copy of the PMs I sent Andrew. I wasn’t sure if he wanted to discuss something like this privately or publicly so I asked him first. He perfers making this public so here it is: Any other ideas? She’s tried two sprays of [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/). She felt that it was more effective. She felt calm and ‘normal’ not ‘high’ like she was with 2 sprays o… > [@Instant Shine EXTREME (x8)](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-shine-extreme-x8/10924/78): > > > [@Instant Shine EXTREME (x8)](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-shine-extreme-x8/10924/78): > > > > That I don’t have the answer to. But 4 sprays of IShine is still in the safe zone. I jumped from 4 IShine to 8 TAA. > > The safe zone seems to very different in one particular individual. She experienced a negative comedown with 2 sprays of IShine 2x. I’ll elaborate. > > Here’s a copy of the PMs I sent Andrew. I wasn’t sure if he wanted to discuss something like this privately or publicly so I asked him first. He perfers making this public so here it is: > > > [@Phya](#): > > > > Hey Andrew, I didn’t want to post this on the thread or your journal because I didn’t know if you wanted such a discussion available for public viewing. > > > > I was wondering if we could discuss your experiences with ISE with regards to your depression. My dad’s gf is bi-polar (apparently, news to me) and she tried one and a half sprays of IShine 2x. She said she felt much lighter on her feet and happy, so the IShine did its job, but on her way home, she reported being very depressed. She almost cried once, then the second wave came and she cracked. > > > > However, when she came home, even though her younger brother was sitting playing games (she dislikes it because she wants him to be more productive, he’s like 35 or something), she wasn’t upset about it, and was much more chill about the fact. In fact, she said she treated him much nicer than she ordinarily would in that situation. > > > > I hypothesized that perhaps because of her ‘disorder’ the depression occured. I had three theories. > > > > The first was that usage of the IShine depleted her serotonin levels thus leading to depressive episodes. The second was that the IShine raised her relative baseline so that when the pheromones dispersed, leaving her with no more (or significantly less) pheromones her serotonin level returned to normal but because of the higher relative baseline, she felt depressed. > > > > The third was that because there was potential evidence for her interacting ‘nicely’ with her brother, the pheromone must not have dispersed completely. Thus, perhaps it wasn’t a drop in pheromones or serotonin, but rather that the experience of IShine triggered some sort of associations which snowballed into triggering a much more sensitive memory. (She has struggled through many hardships during her life.) I thought this because I asked her what she was thinking about during her depressive episode and she replied that it was too ‘heavy’ for her to discuss at this point in time. My guess would be that it has to do with ‘finding family’. > > > > Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s possible that her interaction with her brother was actually a result of her experiencing the depressive episode. After crying, even seeing a familiar face can brighten up your day. > > > > In any case, I hope you can share some thoughts on this matter. I sprayed her around 12, the depressive episode was around 5-6 and the interaction with her brother around 6-8. > > > > I hope your ISE experiences are only fun and positive! > > > [@z414a4d](#): > > > > I have noticed some negative effects as well with ISE. I have been spraying around 11am. And i get a massive comedown around 4-6. During this time if i dont findmyself rejuvenating the spray with regular or 2x i get very irritable. I think the latter of your theories is what i would agree with most. It seems the most logical. We just gotta remember, Pheros do fuck with our chemical levels (seratonin and dopamine), although temperary - in cases where bi-polorism is a factor, i would definatly take it slow..Feel free to make this into a post or reply on ISE post. I dont mind speaking of this publicly, and would prefer it actually, specially since it would help others and research. > > Any other ideas? She’s tried two sprays of Instant Openness. She felt that it was more effective. She felt calm and ‘normal’ not ‘high’ like she was with 2 sprays of IShine 2x. I asked her if she’s willing to try it again and she is. I’m going to keep it at one spray of regular IShine and I’ll let you all know how that goes. ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/12 "2008-05-14T22:40:58Z")
From what I’ve seen, TAA/pheros most benefits when people are feeling down on the inside. Even if one seems happy, one way to test it is the wear pheros around them. I recently discovered that a girl I sit with in class was sad/down much of the time because she doesn’t have many friends, although she looked happy (she’s also cuter than she thinks); same thing with many other people I try to comfort/boost each day. So I was like, “Ok, maybe that’s why she’s so twitchy around me. . .”. It’s like the supply/demand ‘X’ in economics. ---
**Author:** ![FutureKill](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/futurekill/32/691_2.png) [@FutureKill](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/FutureKill)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/13 "2008-05-15T02:56:09Z")
I’m sorry if I am bursting anybody’s bubble, but do we collectively have _any_ reason to assert that TAA affects serotonin besides conjecture? Not that conjecture is “wrong.” It is just that neurology is a lot harder to pin down than behavior. It is one thing to say, “TAA elicits **behaviors** x, y and z.” But it is quite another to say that, “TAA elicits **responses** a, b and c; _inside your brain_,” at least until there is some serious empirical evidence to go by. On the other hand, if there is some study showing a relationship/interaction between TAA and Serotonin, then all bets are off, so let the good times role. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/14 "2008-05-15T06:04:58Z")
> [@FutureKill](#): > > I’m sorry if I am bursting anybody’s bubble, but do we collectively have _any_ reason to assert that TAA affects serotonin besides conjecture? > > Not that conjecture is “wrong.” It is just that neurology is a lot harder to pin down than behavior. > > It is one thing to say, “TAA elicits **behaviors** x, y and z.” But it is quite another to say that, “TAA elicits **responses** a, b and c; _inside your brain_,” at least until there is some serious empirical evidence to go by. > > On the other hand, if there is some study showing a relationship/interaction between TAA and Serotonin, then all bets are off, so let the good times role. [Serotonin Enhances Central Olfactory Neuron Responses to Female Sex Pheromone in the Male Sphinx Moth Manduca sexta – Kloppenburg et al. 19 (19): 8172 – Journal of Neuroscience](http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/19/19/8172) This article from Cornell University (surmised but accessible in its entirety via PDF) finds that pheromones can be greatly enhanced if Serotonin levels are already high, but not vice-a-versa. Of course the study is on the Male Sphinx Moth, but intriguing all the same. Perhaps the reason one might get depressed after a heavy dose of TAA or Ishine is that their Serotonin levels naturally increased by being around others whose happiness affected them. Once the party is over and Serotonin levels return to regular levels in this person (Albeit normal might be abnormal in a person suffering from Bi-Polar Disorder) thus causing a downward spiral that created confusion and ultimately depresion. A very long time ago in a world almost unfathomable to me now I suffered with bouts of depression. I would immerse myself in parties and fun, fun, fun and when it was over I would crash hard. None of us are qualified to say why it happens, but it does and I can almost bet with 100 to 1 odds it would have happened regardless of Ishine, TAA or any other variable that is not mentioned. Most people conveniently neglect to mention the narcotics, alcohol or other high that contributed to the Serotonin enhancements that cause the human body to crash. Why do you think methamphetamine addicts hate the crash? It’s got to be freaking depressing. All that high, on top of the world, then boom, guess what? You’re just like the rest of us!😮 If only they realized that being just like the rest of us means that they are super-duper special. I know that whenever I use TAA or Ishine I have a very different reaction that I have posted about numerous times. Well not so much with TAA but more with IShine. It doesn’t necessarily increase my mood. I wouldn’t wear it if I was in a shitty mood. It wouldn’t even cross my mind. What I do notice is when I’m in a good mood it makes me realize just how good of a mood I am in and usually attracts others who are in a good mood around my mone signature. I never have experienced people in a bad or miserable mood to come over and start to elate at how good life is. Not happened in over a year of use. Misery loves company, but so does happiness. Happy people are attracted to happy people. If my friends are in a shitty mood no pheromone is going to change that. When you’re in a bad mood do you want your happy friend to come over and cheer you up? Not usually. We get into moods because we are emotional beings and we need to express all of our emotions. There is no one who is always happy, not even Jaz-nautical. It’s unhealthy. Point is; I can bet you that Ishine and TAA is not changing anyones brain chemistry. I believe pheromones to just heighten peoples awareness of something that was already happening anyway. I think there are too many of us on the forum who don’t take enough credit on here for being incredible people. When Gegogi (I think it was him) says its 80/20 personality to pheromones he’s giving you a clue just how special you are. Gegogi loves you 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ProtoJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@ProtoJay](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ProtoJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/15 "2008-05-15T12:25:29Z")
> [@FutureKill](#): > > I’m sorry if I am bursting anybody’s bubble, but do we collectively have _any_ reason to assert that TAA affects serotonin besides conjecture? > > Not that conjecture is “wrong.” It is just that neurology is a lot harder to pin down than behavior. > > It is one thing to say, “TAA elicits **behaviors** x, y and z.” But it is quite another to say that, “TAA elicits **responses** a, b and c; _inside your brain_,” at least until there is some serious empirical evidence to go by. > > On the other hand, if there is some study showing a relationship/interaction between TAA and Serotonin, then all bets are off, so let the good times role. While its possible, it still seems like conjecture that pheromones can alter serotonin. I have heard of androstenedienone lowering cortisol in a few studies, which could explain why it relaxes women… ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/16 "2008-05-15T20:24:53Z")
> [@ProtoJay](#): > > While its possible, it still seems like conjecture that pheromones can alter serotonin. I have heard of androstenedienone lowering cortisol in a few studies, which could explain why it relaxes women… Maybe great for a dieter 😉 ---
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/17 "2008-05-15T20:40:14Z")
> [@ProtoJay](#): > > While its possible, it still seems like conjecture that pheromones can alter serotonin. I have heard of androstenedienone lowering cortisol in a few studies, which could explain why it relaxes women… I be worried too much if is it true then you will have the FDA starting to regulate pheros and we don’t want that ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/18 "2008-05-15T20:58:17Z")
> [@denec](#): > > I be worried too much if is it true then you will have the FDA starting to regulate pheros and we don’t want that 😮 Then someone delete my thread here! If I ever uttered the theory of pheromones causing a change of neurotransmitter or hormonal levels I hereby state that the exact opposite is the truth!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/19 "2008-05-15T21:00:31Z")
> [@bubblebob](#): > > 😮 Then someone delete my thread here! If I ever uttered the theory of pheromones causing a change of neurotransmitter or hormonal levels I hereby state that the exact opposite is the truth!!! > > 😃 too late big brother and google has it in its cache 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617/20 "2008-05-15T21:10:44Z")
> [@denec](#): > > I be worried too much if is it true then you will have the FDA starting to regulate pheros and we don’t want that Yea, that’s the last thing I want happening. The FDA might do a little bit of good, but they certainly don’t know what really helps us and what hurts us. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-as-serotonin-enhancer/12617.md?page=2)