# Pheromones = Hormones = favourable characteristics...

**URL:** <https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185>\
**Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\
**Created:** [February 23, 2007, 9:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185 "2007-02-23T09:57:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 18\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Gem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Gem](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gem)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 9:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/1 "2007-02-23T09:57:25Z")

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I was having a think last night and there is something about [pheromones](https://a314.com/) I don’t quite understand, I was hoping someone could help me.

I am going to spell out my understanding of pheromones as simply as possible, (I realise it is much more complex but I just want to check there is nothing I am getting fundimentally wrong) before I ask my question.

So…

We all have hormones in our bodies, every one has different hormones in different amounts. These hormones are excreted in out sweat, once on the skin they are broken down by bacteria and pheromones are produced.

So basically when we smell or sence pheromones we are actually sencing the presence of certain hormones in the persons bodies.

Certain hormones = certain characterisitcs

E.g = Testosterone = muscular, manly, strong, virile, physically imposing etc etc. - I should imagine this relates to -none right?

So…

What follows, spray -none based pheros, for example Turn Up The Heat, you are indicating on an unconcious level to other people that you have high testosterone. Since high testosterone links to the above positive (and sexual) characteristics you are seen as attractive.

likewize copulins - they are secreted by the vagina, so you encounter them when you are aroused. so smelling copulins on a woman, makes you think of sex & being arounsed and gets you attracted to her..

I am not familiar with the womens range but i should imagine some of the sexual ones are linked with estrogen, so the woman is indicating she is furtile and healthy…

If I am right so far?..

That all makes sence - what doesn’t is NON-sexual Pheromones.

for example Instant shine…

What hormone in the body, can give someone a physical characteristic, that we automatically link with being happy and cheerful?? how does that work?

What hormone or characteristic makes someone trustworthy? - ie, what hormones is Instant honesty imitating and what does a person with high levels of these hormones have that makes them trust worthy??

Does that makes sence - does anyone know the answer, or am I approaching this all wrong?

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**Author:** ![Helix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/helix/32/1270_2.png) [@Helix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Helix)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 10:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/2 "2007-02-23T10:13:58Z")

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i wonder that to.. u sayin as in like sweat its testosterone which would relate to none but u wondering were a thing such as instant shine comes from yea? i wouldnt know lol 😛

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**Author:** ![sigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@sigma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sigma)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/3 "2007-02-23T15:51:10Z")

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> [@Gem](#):
>
> I was having a think last night and there is something about pheromones I don’t quite understand, I was hoping someone could help me.
> 
> I am going to spell out my understanding of pheromones as simply as possible, (I realise it is much more complex but I just want to check there is nothing I am getting fundimentally wrong) before I ask my question.
> 
> So…
> 
> We all have hormones in our bodies, every one has different hormones in different amounts. These hormones are excreted in out sweat, once on the skin they are broken down by bacteria and pheromones are produced.
> 
> So basically when we smell or sence pheromones we are actually sencing the presence of certain hormones in the persons bodies.
> 
> Certain hormones = certain characterisitcs
> 
> E.g = Testosterone = muscular, manly, strong, virile, physically imposing etc etc. - I should imagine this relates to -none right?
> 
> So…
> 
> What follows, spray -none based pheros, for example Turn Up The Heat, you are indicating on an unconcious level to other people that you have high testosterone. Since high testosterone links to the above positive (and sexual) characteristics you are seen as attractive.
> 
> likewize copulins - they are secreted by the vagina, so you encounter them when you are aroused. so smelling copulins on a woman, makes you think of sex & being arounsed and gets you attracted to her..
> 
> I am not familiar with the womens range but i should imagine some of the sexual ones are linked with estrogen, so the woman is indicating she is furtile and healthy…
> 
> If I am right so far?..
> 
> That all makes sence - what doesn’t is NON-sexual Pheromones.
> 
> for example Instant shine…
> 
> What hormone in the body, can give someone a physical characteristic, that we automatically link with being happy and cheerful?? how does that work?
> 
> What hormone or characteristic makes someone trustworthy? - ie, what hormones is Instant honesty imitating and what does a person with high levels of these hormones have that makes them trust worthy??
> 
> Does that makes sence - does anyone know the answer, or am I approaching this all wrong?

Most andro pheromones are actually the product of male hormone breakdown (metabolism) in the body. As I understand it, androstenone and androsterone are a direct product of testosterone. Therefore, I’m thinking higher androstenone/Androsterone levels is an indicator of higher testosterone levels. This may have a lot to do with androstenone being decoded as a highly aggressive, physical type of chemical message. This may also be an indirect indicator of male fertility.

Female type pheromones (ie estratetraenol, estradiol) are predominately the product of female hormone break down (progesterone, estrogen, etc). As I understand it, copulins are chemically different from actual pheromones/hormones. (I might be wrong). Interestingly enough, copulins are direct signals of ovulation and fertility, and directly linked to male sexual arousal (unlike androstenone).

I’m not sure what androstenol is a derivative of, and what gives it the social type of characteristics that work indiscriminately between men and women. Interesting phenomenon really. Unfortunately for us, because of the way androtics codes their own pheromones, we don’t know what TAA/[Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) really is. I can venture a guess as to what it is based on how it ‘feels’, but I wouldn’t know for sure what gives it the characteristics it has.

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**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/4 "2007-02-23T15:53:59Z")

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hmm… I’m trying to figure out the connection myself at the moment, gem. I made a thread that’s sort of tangentially related in the women’s forum, if you wanna check it out.

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**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/5 "2007-02-23T16:12:06Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> because of the way Androtics codes their own pheromones

,

this does make it difficult because we maybe using pheromones that we were previously educated on, but i keep in mind that androtics developes and tests alot too, so there are things here we cant get anywhere else.

in reply to gem, i believe ALL pheromones to be sexual in nature; not directly related to the raising of arousal, but in the dispersal of info.

for example, one may get you turned on, and another may say in essence  
“im a messenger for the one that turns you on, i elate you in response to recieving the signal you wanted to get”

does this make sense?

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**Author:** ![chirimoya](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/chirimoya/32/1538_2.png) [@chirimoya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chirimoya)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/6 "2007-02-23T16:27:42Z")

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> [@Gem](#):
>
> What hormone in the body, can give someone a physical characteristic, that we automatically link with being happy and cheerful?? how does that work?
> 
> What hormone or characteristic makes someone trustworthy? - ie, what hormones is Instant honesty imitating and what does a person with high levels of these hormones have that makes them trust worthy??

well Oxytocin is the “bonding horomone,” frequently cited as being released after sex and also during childbirth to “bond” humans together. And it has been found to reduce activity in the amygdala, the part of the brain responsible for processing fear.

[Here is an article from National Institues of Mental Health on oxytocin and trust.](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/press/oxytocin_amygdala.cfm)

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**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/7 "2007-02-23T20:23:59Z")

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> [@Lor](#):
>
> …i believe ALL pheromones to be sexual in nature; not directly related to the raising of arousal, but in the dispersal of info.

Not all, for example there is a “fear mone”. And there is speculation of an “illness mone”.

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**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\
**Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/8 "2007-02-23T23:49:09Z")

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oh i hear that, but sexual in nature meaning meant to convey the messages that mean something to _reproduction_.

a sickness [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) may still be sending out the signal that its “not a good time to _get together_”, and the fear pheromone could in turn be sending the message “cannot support life right now”.

_or_

i could just naturally be relating everything to sex because i have issues

[http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif)

[http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif)

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**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\
**Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/9 "2007-02-24T00:08:33Z")

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> [@Lor](#):
>
> i could just naturally be relating everything to sex because i have issues
> 
> [http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif)
> 
> [http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif)

Perv.!!🙄

😃

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**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\
**Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 6:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/10 "2007-02-24T06:29:24Z")

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> [@Mtnjim](#):
>
> Perv.!!🙄
> 
> 😃

heheh…

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**Author:** ![aequitas300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@aequitas300](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/aequitas300)\
**Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/11 "2007-02-24T23:34:25Z")

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> [@Lor](#):
>
> oh i hear that, but sexual in nature meaning meant to convey the messages that mean something to _reproduction_.
> 
> a sickness pheromone may still be sending out the signal that its “not a good time to _get together_”, and the fear pheromone could in turn be sending the message “cannot support life right now”.
> 
> _or_
> 
> i could just naturally be relating everything to sex because i have issues
> 
> [http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0022.gif)
> 
> [http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/love0081.gif)

![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/9/9b671c22a4586b9ce81944bda1361b51455435d6.gif)

![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/5/5db1a5e798bd4268136da6dd715cba9b158cf156.gif)

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**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/12 "2007-02-24T23:54:35Z")

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Endorphins are a hormone as well as Progesterone (I think women only produce this one) plus many others that are produced during happiness. SO I would say there are plenty of pheromones that could be equated to hormones released while in a happier state of mind. There’s an adage that happiness is addictive, as misery loves company. Maybe they are speaking of the pheromones released in these states and their affect on others in the vicinity.

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**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/13 "2007-02-25T02:31:42Z")

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> [@Gem](#):
>
> So basically when we smell or sense pheromones we are actually sensing the presence of certain hormones in the persons bodies.

Yes (indirectly since pheromones are bacterial breakdown products of hormones).

Some thoughts

a) There isn’t just testosterone - there are different androgens with varying physiological effects. Most testosterone is not ‘free’ - it is bound up in the blood + hormone receptor sensitivity varies between individuals and over time.  
b) In men there are two sources of androgen production - via the gonads and via the adrenals. (With women it is just via the adrenals). I think that the adrenal production is more dynamic than that of the gonads.  
c)The ecology of your gut and skin bacteria has a signature unique to each individual and is determined by the terrain and by your immune system response.  
d)pheromones are generally bacterial breakdown products of hormones. Yet some of these pheromones seem to work as if they are ‘designed’ to be released at very specific moments in social interactions. I would say this applies as much to Androstenol as to the more esoteric newer products. So there must be some kind of switch over and beyond the hypothalmic regulation of androgen (and other hormones) at a gross level.

What might this be? Not my field but maybe your skin somehow modifies its expression of various enzymes according to your emotional state. This might mean that with the same blood levels of free testosterone at one time you might be emitting a high Androstenol, low none, high Androsterone, high TAA vibe and at another time something quite different.

One other question is what drives the association of particular phero patterns with different types of men? Why is it that stable provider types tend to be high 'rone? What is that signature telling you about their biochemistry?

Anyone care to jump in?

> [@](#):
>
> likewize copulins - they are secreted by the vagina, so you encounter them when you are aroused. so smelling copulins on a woman, makes you think of sex & being arounsed and gets you attracted to her..

fwiw my guess is that this is not due to conditioning. also i think it is operating at a pre-conscious level.

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**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/14 "2007-02-25T02:54:11Z")

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> [@PheroQuirk](#):
>
> What might this be? Not my field but maybe your skin somehow modifies its expression of various enzymes according to your emotional state. This might mean that with the same blood levels of free testosterone at one time you might be emitting a high Androstenol, low none, high Androsterone, high TAA vibe and at another time something quite different.

are we presuming a vacuum? if not, i wouldn’t discount feedback loops based on other people signatures. (which i believe is what the interaction is between copulins and test levels and back again)

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**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/15 "2007-02-25T03:17:46Z")

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> [@Nunya](#):
>
> are we presuming a vacuum? if not, i wouldn’t discount feedback loops based on other people signatures. (which i believe is what the interaction is between copulins and test levels and back again)

I’m almost certain there is an interplay between the pheromonal information (and other kinds of subcommunication) of participants in a social gathering… what I’m wondering and I think Gem alluded to this is how does it get to be so subtle when the only mechanisms we seem to have for modulating pheromonal expression are testosterone level and female arousal (via FSH/LH?).

One comment re endorphins - it maybe the case that they end up influencing one’s pheromonal expression (at a particular time vs a signature, which I think of as being more static). But I don’t think any mones are thought to be breakdown products of endorphins, so the puzzle remains.

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**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/16 "2007-02-25T03:26:35Z")

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it’s gotta be more than just test and fsh and lh, tho - there’s dha, dht, estrogen, progesterone, adrenalin - it’s not jsut testes and ovaries at play in our feedback loops - there’s the hypothalamus and pituitary as well.

myself as an example - during fsh period of my cycle, copulins make me weepy. I don’t think that’s fsh’s fault - i think it’s the estrogen buildup peaking to ovulation. And when i post ovulatory and in my LH period, and progesterone is higher - i can’t handle A314 - it drags me down - i’m thinking it’s the androsterone, but i’m not entirely certain.

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**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/17 "2007-02-25T03:36:54Z")

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> [@Nunya](#):
>
> it’s gotta be more than just test and fsh and lh, tho - there’s dha, dht, estrogen, progesterone, adrenalin - it’s not jsut testes and ovaries at play in our feedback loops - there’s the hypothalamus and pituitary as well.
> 
> myself as an example - during fsh period of my cycle, copulins make me weepy. I don’t think that’s fsh’s fault - i think it’s the estrogen buildup peaking to ovulation. And when i post ovulatory and in my LH period, and progesterone is higher - i can’t handle A314 - it drags me down - i’m thinking it’s the androsterone, but i’m not entirely certain.

Completely agree that it’s a complicated dance between those different organs and hormones and that one’s endocrinological state has the potential to substantially alter response to pheromones.

V interesting to hear your experiences above.

Still am intrigued by the end-stage - how does your body modulate pheromonal output? You have all these different cool effects that seem to be released at particular moments with particular people. You’re at college and you meet someone new that you connect with and end up staying up talking all night with them. What is it that causes 'Androstenol production to be amped up at that time? (A testosterone spike might be part of it, but I don’t think it can be more than just part).

Slightlyt tangential question - can you often guess whether women in your social circle or at work are ovulating by their behaviour and other means? (I’m thinking by how they dress, attitude towards other women partic with regard to putting them down in conversations about them with men)?

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**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\
**Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-hormones-favourable-characteristics/2185/18 "2007-02-25T03:42:47Z")

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not really. but i prefer not to think about the hormonal state of most of the women i know.

I only know that my roommate is premenstrual because of what she starts eating. altho, now that she’s on the pill all she seems to eat is gigantic bowls of count chocula.

i can tell when my close work friends are premestrual because one always gets weepy and the other one gets very very bitchy.

re: that talking all night thing - it’s the witching hour! i betcha malatonin and in that case the pineal gland is involved with that one. It’s that hazy dreamworld where oyu can say anything and everything.

But what gets you to that point, and what’s the loop between two people? i’m really not sure that i can even begin to plumb the depths of that. all i know for certain is that nature strives for homeostasis so it’s a constant fine-tuning going on.