# Pot may hike risk of psychosis, research finds **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [July 27, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832 "2007-07-27T13:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/1 "2007-07-27T13:39:54Z")
**(maybe not great though provocation for you fans of White Widow and the like… no sooner than plant geneticists master the superbud genome…)** * * * **i.e.** * * * LONDON - Using marijuana seems to increase the chance of becoming psychotic, **researchers report in an analysis of past research that reignites the issue of whether pot is dangerous.** The new review suggests that even infrequent use could raise the small but real risk of this serious [mental illness](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19980923/#) by 40 percent. Doctors have long suspected a connection and say the latest findings underline the need to highlight marijuana’s long-term risks. The research, paid for by the British Health Department, is being published Friday in the [medical journal](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19980923/#) The Lancet. “The available evidence now suggests that cannabis is not as harmless as many people think,” said Dr. Stanley Zammit, one of the study’s authors and a lecturer in the department of psychological medicine at Cardiff University. The researchers said they couldn’t prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis, a category of several disorders with schizophrenia being the most commonly known. There could be something else about marijuana users, “like their tendency to use other drugs or certain personality traits, that could be causing the psychoses,” Zammit said. **Thousands tracked** Marijuana is the most frequently used illegal substance in many countries, including the United Kingdom and the United States. About 20 percent of young adults report using it at least once a week, according to government statistics. Zammit and colleagues from the University of Bristol, Imperial College and Cambridge University examined 35 studies that tracked tens of thousands of people for periods ranging from one year to 27 years to examine the effect of marijuana on [mental health](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19980923/#). They looked for psychotic illnesses as well as cognitive disorders including delusions and hallucinations, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety, neuroses and suicidal tendencies. **They found that people who used marijuana had roughly a 40 percent higher chance of developing a psychotic disorder later in life. The overall risk remains very low.** * * * For example, Zammit said the risk of developing schizophrenia for most people is less than 1 percent. The prevalence of schizophrenia is believed to be about five in 1,000 people. But because of the drug’s wide popularity, the researchers estimate that about 800 new cases of psychosis could be prevented by reducing marijuana use. **Disturbing outlook** **The scientists found a more disturbing outlook for “heavy users” of pot, those who used it daily or weekly: Their risk for psychosis jumped to a range of 50 percent to 200 percent.** * * * One doctor noted that people with a history of mental illness in their families could be at higher risk. For them, marijuana use “could unmask the underlying schizophrenia,” said Dr. Deepak Cyril D’Souza, an associate professor of psychiatry at Yale University, who was not involved in the study. Dr. Wilson Compton, a senior scientist at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Washington, called the study persuasive. “The strongest case is that there are consistencies across all of the studies,” and that the link was seen only with psychoses — not anxiety, depression or other mental health problems, he said. Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. **Dispel the misconception** Scientists think it is biologically possible that marijuana could cause psychoses because it interrupts important neurotransmitters such as dopamine. That can interfere with the brain’s communication systems. Some experts say governments should now work to dispel the misconception that marijuana is a benign drug. **“We’ve reached the end of the road with these kinds of studies,” said Dr. Robin Murray of King’s College, who had no role in the Lancet study. “Experts are now agreed on the connection between cannabis and psychoses**. What we need now is for 14-year-olds to know it.” In the U.K., the government will soon reconsider how marijuana should be classified in its hierarchy of drugs. In 2004, it was downgraded and penalties for possession were reduced. Many expect marijuana will be bumped up to a class “B” category, with offenses likely to lead to arrests or longer jail sentences. Two of the authors of the study were invited experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Cannabis Review in 2005. Several authors reported being paid to attend drug company-sponsored meetings related to marijuana, and one received consulting fees from companies that make antipsychotic medications. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/2 "2007-07-27T22:00:34Z")
I wonder if these people are more prone to mental illness before using pot and are simply self medicating in a subconscious attempt to stave it off. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/3 "2007-07-28T14:03:45Z")
**Absolutely** … you have to distinguish beween ocassional indulgers and **users** … IME, over a thirty five year wide window of personal observation, **every single person I knew who smoked pot on a chronic basis** , every one, … had major underlying emotional problems, either from inherent (organic) brain problems, disturbed family dynamics, or who know what else… so there is a fallacy lurking in this governement report… probably a deep fallacy they’re not to eager to advertise… **chronic use is an almost infallible diagnostic sign of serious emotional disorder or character disorder.** … _with the significant exception of mediacal use for pain control, anti-nausea, anti-convulsant and anti-spasmodic properties_… A follow up observation I’ve made, from my direct experience with more than my share of chronics… is that the fundamental, numero uno, bedrock issue that all chronics have is denial… so what I’ve come to beleive is that most _drug abuse is just an extension of the escapist process of denial._… the coping style of denial is established very early in life, and cannabis, among other things, simply facilitates the deepening of denial, becaue the responsibility gets shifted onto the drug… the dope “made” me forget… If I had a nickel for every time some twat who just blew his rent money on a bag of hydro started blubbering about how the dope “made” him do it… then I started thinking hard… Hmmmmm… this sounds just like the coping processes of your typical 4 year old child, upshifted into an adult framework… maybe the chronic drug thing actually **IS** a developmental retardation… somehow they got stuck in a thought loop at age 4 and can’t escape, except to chemically escape ? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![mindset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mindset](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mindset)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/4 "2007-07-29T00:54:24Z")
Well, I can definately attest on behalf of the article as I was a heavy smoker for 5 years (2 blunts to the head daily, not counting cyphers with friends on AVERAGE). Most of the time I was smoking regular bud, but towards the end I was smoking only dank. Yes, I do think in my case that I already had a pre-existing condition that worsened with the usage of pot, however, I do not think it was soley the pot that caused my heightened psychosis. In my opinion, if you never had a pre-existing condition, are eating right, and exercising daily, then the risk of psychosis is at a minimum. The problem with passive smokers is they tend to remain indoors, smoke themselves until they pass out, and are **indecisive** about where they are going in life. In my case, I failed to do any of the aforementioned, and in my latter stages right before I quit became anti-social, volatile, paranoid, and began to hear voices, which I am still struggling with today after two years of abstinence. ---
**Author:** ![bighead1221](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bighead1221](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bighead1221)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/5 "2007-07-29T03:30:07Z")
it’s not that far of a reach if u consider the effects marijuana has on ur brain. It kills brain cells, and may cause hallucinations in some. I don’t think the average pot smoker will get this effect, but the hardcore, multiple a day kind of smoker might. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/6 "2007-07-29T23:37:17Z")
In the final analysis, health is the most precious thing we have, both high mental health and high physical health… medicine is now recognizing how powerfully the mind, in things like one’s attitude towards one’s life, affects the broad state of physical well being. I’m definitely not anti-cannabis… I think it is a useful medicine that has it’s place, no more or less than other useful medicines that also carry risks… and sometimes something as ordinary as good relaxation may be more beneficial than anything else, so maybe cannabis once in a while as a relaxant may be better than a cabinet full of prescription pills… We just have to be honest that everything has a cost-to-benefit ratio… the pro-cannabis group isn’t honest about the risks, and the anti-cannabis group isn’t honest about the benefits… in the process we all lose… ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/7 "2007-07-30T17:04:37Z")
In my youth I smoked my share of pot and ummm errr uh …never mind.🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/8 "2007-07-31T18:57:49Z")
The government has done much to demonize pot. THC is impossible to OD on and non habit forming. Use a vaporizer and lung cancer isn’t even a real issue. Eat it and it’s non existant. It’s an incredibly physically harmless substance. Anyhoo, I firmly believe if a person is in a predisposition for mental illness that pot usage can aid in quickening it’s onset. There is also what’s called THC induced physchosis. Essentially a medical term for people that get ripped and they trip out real bad with major paranoia. However, it wears off when the high is gone. I use to be a real fucking rip case in my younger years. It was fun for quite a while, but it just made me real dumb and aided in social retardation. There are some real chronic high functioning pot smokers while others slowly cease to function. As fucked as it sounds it also enhances your driving ability. It effects people differently. Last time I had a toke a month ago it wasn’t too fun. A great reminder of why I gave it up. Eating it on the other hand is fucking awesome. I’m fortunate enough to be able to get access to medicinal grade Bud brownies. Every once in a while I’ll just eat a quarter of one and I go sailing. Real nice body high. If people just turn into headcases when they get high it’s real simple. Don’t smoke the shit. If somebody is going to end up mentally ill it will happen to them with or without dope. Cigarettes have a double whammy effect. They’re physically addictive and that manifests itself mentally as well. ---
**Author:** ![Visionary7903](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/45deac/32.png) [@Visionary7903](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Visionary7903)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 11:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/9 "2007-08-23T11:22:54Z")
[Yahoo! Groups](http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/morelife/message/1572) **Invalid reasoning re correlation and cause** Invalid reasoning appears to be very widespread. This is even true with respect to scientific reasoning among published research scientists, but is most prevalent and damaging within the media. Here is one example from a recent item produced by World Science ([http://world-science.net](http://world-science.net/)) a newsletter of currently topical science-related stories to which I am subscribed and about which I sent the following response: In “Pot could boost psychosis risk later in life, study finds”, World Science July 27, 2007 ([http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070727\_cannabis.htm](http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070727_cannabis.htm)) based on study published in Lancet ([http://pmid.us/17662880](http://pmid.us/17662880)), it is stated: “In the new research, Theresa Moore of the University of Bristol, U.K., and Stanley Zammit of Cardiff University, Wales, analyzed 35 past studies on marijuana up to last year. They found that people who had used cannabis were 41 percent more likely than those who had never used it to have any form of psychosis. The risk rose with dosage, the researchers added. They calculated that about 14 percent of psychotic episodes in young adults in the UK would not occur if cannabis weren’t consumed.” The last sentence in this report (particularly the phrase “would not occur if cannabis weren’t consumed”) was _not_ a conclusion of the authors of the report and would not be a conclusion of anyone who understands scientific method. The good evidence found for correlation between the use of cannabis and later psychotic episodes, does _not_ imply the causation of such episodes by the use of cannabis. Because of that fact of scientific epistemology, it is even incorrect for the researchers to refer to use of cannabis as a “risk” for psychotic episodes. The increased likelihood of psychotic episodes among those using cannabis could just as easily be because those people more likely to later have psychotic episodes are also more likely to choose to use cannabis. One way to resolve this question would be to use psychological personality index testing on a group of cannabis users and a group of matched non-cannabis users to see whether or not those using cannabis have a personality that is more likely to lead to psychosis. If this has been done, there is certainly no mention of it in the Lancet abstract (I do not have access to the full paper). –Paul Wakfer MoreLife for the rational - [http://morelife.org](http://morelife.org/) Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - [http://selfsip.org](http://selfsip.org/) Self-sovereignty, rational pursuit of optimal lifetime happiness, individual responsibility, social preferencing & social contracting ------------EOM----------- [The practice of assigning causation to association is very widespread in many aspects of human activity, including in health related science writing. This particular article being part of an email subscription was convenient for making a comment to the editor - and to one of the author’s after a quick search at PubMed for an email address - and so it was done. We have no particular interest in the use of cannabis other than that the usage of any substance properly should be the decision of the individual only, with all responsibility for its effects also that of the same individual (unless that individual has been defrauded in regard to the substance). We encourage readers to be aware of articles and/or reports they read (or hear) where causation is drawn from the mere statistical correlation of factors or events. Consider making the time to respond to writers and/or editors of articles where this takes place pointing out the fallacy of such statements. If you can think of a method of helping determine true causation for the associated factor, you could also include this as a suggestion as Paul did above. Even if only several individuals respond to major articles in this way - especially if some are published - the point is unlikely to be ignored. Those who do submit such comments to writers/editors (and are qualified to post) are welcome to also send them here to MoreLife Yahoo. \*\*Kitty] ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/10 "2007-08-23T12:30:06Z")
All right, Visionary! I didn’t take time to read the research report first hand, but when I saw the “news” and the “action plan” being proposed by government, my working hypothesis was “is bad science at the core of this.” Medical statistics have some unusual twists; in addition to the purely mathematical statistics packages like SAS and BMDP, and the social science oriented SPSS and Minitab, medical research tools (e.g. Medicalc and StatsDirect) add “packaged” kits of statistical inference related to _survival studies. paired cohort studies, inter-assessor agreement,_ and also can include function parameters expressly related to epidemiology such as _bias, and risk trend._ However, the more complex and sophisticated such functions become (and now companies like SAS and BMDP produce add-on function packages for medical analysis): - the more specialized the conditions in which the function is valid for use - the more likely the function logic or application range is generalized inappropriately In particular, using statistical methods _on second-order statistics_ requires an extreme degree of care to avoid an invalid conclusion (either by applying a function in an case where the function’s application is invalid, or by deriving a conclusion from a valid function that is not warranted.) From the critique above, it seems clear that the research in question did NOT attempt to use medical statistics on the primary data in the 35 studies. The research consisted of taking second order statistics (the ‘results’ of the studies) and performing some kind of analysis, not collating and aligning the raw reseach data. Rigor in statistical analysis should help us avoid bias and give the power to know, with a high degree of confidence, just what the limits are on the inferences the statistics seem to indicate. There appears to be NO such rigor in this study, or the conclusion – a 40% increase in risk – would have some kind of confidence measure associated with it. Even the most shabby public opinion polls used in election times will say “this poll has the potential for error of up to X percent” – hopefully the audience member can make the inference that a race where candidate A has 53% and B has 47% and up to a three percent error (at what confidence level?) could actually be a dead heat. The casual use of statistics and statistical methods inspires deep mistrust. It’s like using a bowling ball to pound a nail into place: sometimes it works, but oftentimes the outcome is not pretty, and sometimes it is a disaster… ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/11 "2007-08-23T15:49:15Z")
IMHO… one has to look at a cluster of addicitive patterns… all the addicts I’ve ever known were poly-addictive if you looked closely at their life patterns… anything and everything that had escapist potential… television, sex, alcohol, pot, opiates, comic books, dysfunctional friendships and personal associations… all fed into the great addiction blob that their lives became… another thing that I noticed was that regardless of WHAT their main addicitve “theme” was… whether it was alcoholism with all the alcoholism dramas, or sex with all the sex dramas, or gambling with all the gambling dramas… there was always a damaged family system in the background.. the addicitve personality seems, to me, based on my witnessing some with each of the above problems, that addicitions seem to be a response to phony families… by phony I mean that they engage in a pretense of being something they are not, and they all get together and support this facade of the false self.. and the addict is often the one who “presents”, in the clinical sense, the disturbance or the falsity of the who family dynamic… so further IMHO… any research into the effects of cannabis over-use MUST also carefully consider the family and the way the over-user is reacting to the family… ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 12:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/12 "2007-08-24T00:58:06Z")
As Mark Twain said " Most people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination" ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pot-may-hike-risk-of-psychosis-research-finds/4832/13 "2007-08-24T04:04:53Z")
> [@chads](#): > > As Mark Twain said " Most people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination" All right! 😃😃