# Question about layering **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065 "2008-08-07T02:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![inkling](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/inkling/32/2326_2.png) [@inkling](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/inkling)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/21 "2008-08-24T18:37:09Z")
Great post Tisha. The color analogy and also your recipe explanation is eye opening. The color analogy certainly applies to tah and tal and how many of us have preference and “making brown” when applying too many products. I found the recipe explanation more helpful with layering. I hadn’t really considered layering possibilities like this, definitely something to try and observe. I usually apply in different areas and avoid spraying directly over top of one application or another unless it is copulins or androstenols. ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/22 "2008-08-24T23:23:14Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > But let me touch on your coffee analogy first. Yes if you put sugar coffee and milk in your mouth and swish it around your will get the same thing as if you mixed it in a cup technically. But it will taste different depending on what you put in your mouth first because that will leave the first impression on your senses. Give it a try and see. If you put the sugar in your mouth first when you add the rest it will taste sweet. If you put the coffee in first the rest will taste bitter. I was an analogy of MHarris in regards to spray mixing VS premixing. I probably fucked it up a bit. Not related to layering. > [@tisha23](#): > > Y > > LOL This is how my brother talks LOL Fun huh Basically he is saying what I said but on a cellular level. You weigh down the molecules when you layer, as the top layer diffuses some of the lower level molecules will go with it but as they become less weighed down the lower layers begin to diffuse more strongly. So the molecules diffuse lightly all together to some extent but also in waves according to layer each effecting the subconscious mind in a certain order. How about the molecular weight of the different compounds being applied? Does that affect or factor into this process? ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/23 "2008-08-25T01:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > How about the molecular weight of the different compounds being applied? Does that affect or factor into this process? Yes the molecular weight could play a small factor but I dont think the molecular weight is tremendously different for each pheromone molecule. (I dont know about the putatives weight because only the Androtics crew knows there true chemical names.) Side by side the molecular structure of most main stream pheromones is very close. Measuring vapor density would give you a more accurate molecular weight. Although I know the weight of Androstenone because it is the heavier of the molecules 272.42502 I am not sure on the weight of other compounds. My observations are on layering and the molecules weighing down each other and diffusion rates not on mixing and the weight of molecules. I am not a chemist and my observations on layering are just for getting the most from your pheromonal experience. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/24 "2008-08-28T16:29:27Z")
> [@Pheraoh](#): > > That is exactly what some of us have chosen to debate. > > Makes all the sense in what way? People claim none is more evident if it is sprayed last. Therefore they spray it first, then spray the fast diffusing socials. Even though none is sticky I bet it wouldn’t make the socials diffuse any slower if they’re sprayed underneath it. > > How can the order in which spray applications are applied/dried/applied in the same application point affect the way in which an individual will perceive the molecules in your signature any differently at a neurological level? > > Until I hear an explanation that actually makes any sense, I doubt the unproven theorem of layering in it’s entirety. Sheesh I have been too busy lately. I can’t believe I missed this thread! I would tend to agree with you here Pheraoh. I have “compounded” many a mixture on myself many, many times and tested this theory. When I first started using the mones a long time ago, I used to do it with this on top of that and make sure this dries down before adding A to B. I tried it with meticulous notes in my journal and I never noticed any differences. If there are differences I believe it would be on such a small level as almost insignificant. I make all my own mixes in 120 mL bottles now and I have never noticed a difference by putting in -none before nols. I have layered many times and never noticed a difference between spraying -none before nols. Of course this is just my oppinion, and everybody is entitled to it.😛 I dont even see much of a difference with spraying my most beloved MX149 right on top of oil based A314. The A314 still long outlasts the MX149 even though now it is layered with Alcohol. The A314 effects still take longer to kick in too. MX149 quick, A314 Slow and steady. ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/25 "2008-08-28T21:56:29Z")
I’m in agreement here. I spray one on top of the other. I’ve waited for the first application to dry before applying another and I’ve sprayed them on one after the other without waiting to dry in between. Though I do have a tendency to spray them on in a particular order I find it really doesn’t matter. I can tell no appreciable difference. If you composite and shake the bottle to mix them, it’s pretty much the same idea, they’re all mixed together and come out in one spray anyways. The exception is when I wear something oil based. I always use that first and then hit it up with the alcohol based ones. ---
**Author:** ![capone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/capone/32/587_2.png) [@capone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/capone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/26 "2008-08-29T00:55:43Z")
Under my experience, at least, I can say we could get some slightly different effects when spraying directly on our body layering in a specific order but as I said earlier, the changes I experienced are so subtle that I could not confirm if I these differences are because of the layering order or because of Chaos theory in people behaviour and in the whole world 😉. What I can confirm is that, under my experience, I have not found order-related differences in the effects of a premixed bottle. Despite of this, it’s true that chemistry says that molecules react different depending on the order you mix them (even if the compounds do not react directly, the mix could have other chemical propierties), so it make some sense that people get different results using a premixed bottle with order ‘A’ than with order ‘B’, doesn’t it? I have not noticed them, though, but as I said, IMHO there are so many variables in real life to say a subtle change in someone’s behaviour is because of a even more subtle change in the order that we mix the bottle. Anyway, if people notice it, I suppose I should give a little order test of my favourite mixes 😉. Anyway, when mixing, a question have always come to my head… Phero molecules we use are stable enough to mix them the way we are doing it? Could we have conversion or reacting risks making molecules be other ones or losing their propierties? I hope someone can answer that last question 😃. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/27 "2008-08-29T01:19:21Z")
Well Steve your entitled to your opinion. LOL I will yell at you later about it though then we can make up and all will be well. 😉 Keep in mind I am not talking about compositing, I dont composit much. I am referring to layering the products. I suggest you give it another go. Pick you favorite combo and try applying it in different orders and record your results. Try putting your A314 over your MX149 and see what the result is. Tisha 😉 ---
**Author:** ![schell0385](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/schell0385/32/199_2.png) [@schell0385](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/schell0385)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/28 "2008-08-29T03:52:09Z")
Can I layer DEET over the top of my pheromones to keep the mosquitoes from munching on me? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/29 "2008-08-29T05:03:45Z")
I am in the SteveO and Bella camp in that I have not noticed any significatn differences based on the order of layering. I know the theory - and have told others about it several times - and often do apply my pheros in a particular order and/or in particular places. But I have not noticed a significant difference in those around me when I break from this rountine. I am not saying it does not happen - I may be just to dense to notice. The other aspect of this is looking at the personalities involved. Now I may be wrong here - so ladies please do not flame me here … but just guessing from online personalities and knowing myself … Tisha has a strong personality (good) and I get the impression she does her thing but she is also a big “watcher” - seeing how people are reacting around her. Now my wife and I watch people too quite often but socially I tend to be a high intensity engagement and I get the impression SteveO is too. Does not mean he does not observe or is not socially aware but it is more of a constant social engagement. I think Bella leans a little more towards SteveO and myself in a female version of that strong social engagement style but also stands back a little and watches what is going on around her like a hawk - but I may be wrong. I think that if there are slight differences that happen with layering they may well disappear in that intense social engagement style. At that point people are reacting to the strong personality and the overall direction of the pheros. But again this is just real broad-brush kinda thoughts and may be 180 out … > [@schell0385](#): > > Can I layer DEET over the top of my pheromones to keep the mosquitoes from munching on me? I use DEET and A314 together successfully … lol. > [@SteveO](#): > > my most beloved MX149 Speaking of which … how do the rest of us get some more - I know Tater is also interested. ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 8:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/30 "2008-08-29T08:48:35Z")
> [@bosshank](#): > > _ **I am in the SteveO and Bella camp** _ in that I have not noticed any significatn differences based on the order of layering. I know the theory - and have told others about it several times - and often do apply my pheros in a particular order and/or in particular places. Awww c’mon guys, I don’t wanna camp! I wanna stay at the Hilton! 😃 > [@](#): > > _ **The other aspect of this is looking at the personalities involved.** _ > > _**Tisha has a strong personality (good) and I get the impression she does her thing but she is also a big “watcher” - seeing how people are reacting around her.**_ Tisha’s strong personality doesn’t get in the way of her observations. 😉 But if you’re bent this way, and not aware/careful of it, your own personality can get in the way of you being able to observe others. > [@](#): > > _ **I think that if there are slight differences that happen with layering they may well disappear in that intense social engagement style. At that point people are reacting to the strong personality and the overall direction of the pheros.** _ If I’m right with the above assessment of what you’re saying here…I don’t think the layering has that much to do with anything disappearing as far as social style goes. I’m not sure I getcha ya, BH, but I think I agree. If the layering thing was that important why would Androtics combine so many different pheromones in one MX? So it’s not any individual pheromone they’re reacting to. It’s the combined pheromones, each in a specific dose per spray, that produces the overall effect that provokes the response. At least that’s the way I see it. Is that what you mean by overall direction of the pheromones? > [@](#): > > Now my wife and I watch people too quite often but _ **socially I tend to be a high intensity engagement and I get the impression SteveO is too.** _ _ **Does not mean he does not observe or is not socially aware but it is more of a constant social engagement** _. > [@](#): > > _ **I may be just to dense to notice** _. It boils down to knowing/learning how to pay attention in the right way. It takes time and it’s hard for a lot of people as they’re just not sensitive in this way. Some people just know instinctively, others can learn, and some people will always be better at it than others. So I take it that’s what you mean by high intensity, constant, social engagement…that you really just get so rapped up in conversation with the person or group you’re interacting with and miss hits? Or, as I said, I may not be understanding you correctly. > [@](#): > > _ **I** _ _ **think Bella leans a little more towards SteveO and myself in a female version of that strong social engagement style but also stands back a little and watches what is going on around her like a hawk - but I may be wrong.** _ Wolf calls me Eagle Eye…lol…and says I have ears like a bat. 😛 Where I can get wrapped up in an intense group or one on one engagement, I still keep aware of what’s going on around me. I’ve been told by people that when they speak to me they feel like they’re the only person in the room as I give them my undivided attention. And while I do prefer to focus my attention on the person I’m directly speaking to I’ve managed to develop my style to the point of being able to be aware of what goes on around me but not so they’d notice I was doing anything but paying attention to them. 😉 It just involves paying attention in a differtent way. It’s kinda like how guys sneak looks at girls with big boobs without their wives noticing. You guys know how to do that, right? Either way, I have a strong social personality and a keen ability to read people. It helps that I can talk to and open just about anybody np. It’s a subtle difference for me, with and without pheromones, because I have a tendency to provoke a good reaction from others in most cases. But _knowing that_ enables me to pick up on the more subtle clues/hits. Not sure if that lines up with your assesment _of me_ either…lol. 🙄 Bella ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/31 "2008-08-29T21:22:39Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Try putting your A314 over your MX149 and see what the result is. > > Tisha 😉 That’s the thing Tisha23, you sexy vixen, I have tried it that way. Many times, in no particular order. The only order I use is where the bottle that is closest to the hand at the time of use. And I can’t wait to make out, err make up 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/32 "2008-08-29T23:57:25Z")
Well I guess this is why we are in the therory section 😉 I still stick by my theory and appling this way. I have better success when I apply with purpose like Jassy taught me. Maybe BH is right and I just read people really well. Who knows, Its still worth a try for people when they want to keep things interesting. > [@](#): > > And I can’t wait to make out, err make up [http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11\_2\_102.gif](http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZKxdm021NUUS) Me to, its the best part 😉 Tisha Were so bad LOL [http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZKxdm021NUUS](http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb112_ZKxdm021NUUS&utm_id=7920) ---
**Author:** ![capone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/capone/32/587_2.png) [@capone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/capone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/33 "2008-08-30T12:29:55Z")
Anyway as it was said at the first part of this thread, if we don’t change order when a mix works, we don’t add another variable to a equation that is, by itself, already very complicated… That’s about layering… what about mixing in a bottle? Do you everyone think that it would make a difference the order? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![schell0385](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/schell0385/32/199_2.png) [@schell0385](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/schell0385)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/34 "2008-08-30T14:24:26Z")
Mixing ingredients together can make a difference in the world of chemistry. We have not run any test on this with pheros - my guess is since there is not a strong chemical response involved, something like a chain reaction, that it would not make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_ray](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/smiling_ray/32/1314_2.png) [@smiling\_ray](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smiling_ray)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/35 "2008-08-31T00:47:18Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > [http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11\_2\_102.gif](http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZKxdm021NUUS) Me to, its the best part 😉 > > Were so bad LOL You & SteveO are soooooooo naughty… this is an open forum, children can also read it & they might get ideas LOL ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/36 "2008-08-31T00:50:13Z")
Its a uncensored forum and believe me, me licking steveO is mild compared some of the posts in here LOL 😉 Tisha ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/37 "2008-08-31T03:05:57Z")
> [@Bella](#): > > Awww c’mon guys, I don’t wanna camp! I wanna stay at the Hilton! I can go either way but I know what you are saying … > [@Bella](#): > > Tisha’s strong personality doesn’t get in the way of her observations. I was not trying to communicate that … my bad. > [@tisha23](#): > > I still stick by my theory and appling this way. I have better success when I apply with purpose like Jassy taught me. Maybe BH is right and I just read people really well. Who knows, Its still worth a try for people when they want to keep things interesting. That is what I was trying to say - Tisha is good at reading people - very much a watcher. Not that Bella isn’t - they just strike me as different styles … > [@Bella](#): > > If I’m right with the above assessment of what you’re saying here…I don’t think the layering has that much to do with anything disappearing as far as social style goes. I’m not sure I getcha ya, BH, but I think I agree. I think that if there is a diffference with layering it is a very subtle one that dissappears into the overall effect of the combined pheros when you have a strong social interaction as opposed to keeping the level of interaction down … if that makes sense. > [@Bella](#): > > If the layering thing was that important why would Androtics combine so many different pheromones in one MX? So it’s not any individual pheromone they’re reacting to. It’s the combined pheromones, each in a specific dose per spray, that produces the overall effect that provokes the response. At least that’s the way I see it. Is that what you mean by overall direction of the pheromones? Exactly - even Tisha kinda seems to go in that direction in my thread … > [@A314 and Ammo Combo Question](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-and-ammo-combo-question/13257): > > I use both or variants on a near daily basis. Now there is some overlap in the individual pheromones in both products although A314 certainly has more as reported and the ratios are also certainly different. My question is this: When we wear both A314 and Ammo at the same time are we sending out the two distinct signals of Ammo and A314 … or are we just throwing out a lot of signal, but one that is neither really one or the other? If it is the latter are we just sending out an off-kilter A314 … > [@A314 and Ammo Combo Question](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-and-ammo-combo-question/13257/4): > > No its not really 2 separate signals. When you wear AMMO with A314 you increase the sexiness and interest vibe. You still have the respect trust vibe going though people will be less taken back by the sternness of A314. I think for the older guys its not a problem with overlapping pheromones. I think younger guys should use one or the other as there base pheromone or cut down on the dosage of each if worn together. > > So A314 on its own predominately says… Respect, trust, alpha, signals leader, it says I am the most important man in the room. > > AMMO on its own says Sexy, attractive, interesting, arousing > > Together they say Sexy interesting respected alpha leader. The hottest alpha in the room. Of course I guess Tisha could also argue the depending which one a guy applied first he would be slightly more sexy or slightly more respected alpha leader. > [@schell0385](#): > > Mixing ingredients together can make a difference in the world of chemistry …(but) my guess is since there is not a strong chemical response involved, something like a chain reaction, that it would not make a difference. I think you are basically saying the same as Bella but in a different way .. but I think you are both right. > [@Bella](#): > > So I take it that’s what you mean by high intensity, constant, social engagement…that you really just get so rapped up in conversation with the person or group you’re interacting with and miss hits? Or, as I said, I may not be understanding you correctly. Not so much as not noticing the differences of subtle effects but more so that a strong social interaction overscomes what might be subtle differences in applying x on top of y and instead the they react to the overall effect of the pheromones as I said above. > [@Bella](#): > > Wolf calls me Eagle Eye…lol…and says I have ears like a bat. … Either way, I have a strong social personality and a keen ability to read people. … Not sure if that lines up with your assesment _of me_ either…lol. It does - pretty much as I figured … from my read on your many posts, personality, etc.. I mean as long as he means you your hearing is good when he says you have ears like a bat … lol. 😮 > [@Bella](#): > > It’s kinda like how guys sneak looks at girls with big boobs without their wives noticing. You guys know how to do that, right? Why _I_ would _never_ notice a set of boobs other than my wife’s. 🙄 Actually I thought guys snuck looks at just about any girl with boobs regardless of their size … lol. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Vespero](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vespero/32/988_2.png) [@Vespero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vespero)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/38 "2008-09-03T17:07:56Z")
Wow, I started this thread a while back with a simple question. I knew there was probably actually a lot to be said on the subject, but I didn’t expect such a massive response. Unfortunately, I ran out of my to-go bottles not long after people really started posting in this thread, or I would share my own experiences. However, I’ll be getting a few full-sized bottles soon, so maybe I’ll be able to make my own reports here in a week or so. That would be great, and I am learning a lot just reading here anyway, so… ---
**Author:** ![josef](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/josef/32/2007_2.png) [@josef](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/josef)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065/39 "2008-09-19T03:06:28Z")
interesting thread. i don’t know that i have ever “layered” but i have tried mixing. i gave up on mixing long ago, cost prohibitive and too many possible errors to make it worthwhile for me. that is one of the main reasons i appreciate androtics “dosed” sprays. i guess i don’t “layer” because i have specific areas for specific pheromones, for example i only use IFM on the back of my head. sides of my head are reserved for friendly socials like IO and IH. chest space and throat have instant shine written all over them, the area behind my ears and down the sides of my neck are tailor made for A314. now that i think about it, i have “layered” since i recently got a bottle of Ammo (left all -none stuff in the states) and sprayed ammo over the A314 on my neck and inside elbows, this new bottle of A314 definetely smells like ass where the last bottle of A314 was a more pleasant “dirt” scent. anyway, all the science in here is going to make my head explode. i have too much fun using these things to go and spend too much time getting scientific over it, that’s what MHarris is for anyway. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-about-layering/17065.md?page=1)