# really weird reaction, this ever happen to u? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [August 27, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329 "2008-08-27T04:33:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/1 "2008-08-27T04:33:57Z")
went to class today with a ton of P74 (100+mcg) and TAC (70+mcg), some Come Talk To Me Mix 2, 2 sprays Instant Gentleman, lots of shine, 1 spray of [Instant Female Magic](https://a314.com/product/instant-female-magic/), and just 2 teenie wee bitsy dab of NPA on the back of the hand. teacher asked us to pick a partner and review the hw, i paired up with a girl sitting next to me. at first, she looked reluctant, kinda like ‘ugh..ok i guess im stuck with this guy’ then she asked for my name, i shook her hand, ‘nice to meet u’ and she acted as if she was repulsed by my touch and withdrew her hand quickly. but after about 30 secs (yes 30 seconds) going over the hw, i noticed a shift in her tone of voice and mood. she seemed more open and friendly and started being curious about me. i turned the focus of the conversation back on her (always better to let them talk about themselves lol) and she happily started describing about a recent trip to europe she had and stuff. then we reviewed some more hw and i made a couple of lame jokes and busted her chops and she laughed genuinely and was overall being very warm and welcoming. i wouldn’t say to the point of flirtatious but she was definitely enjoying my company, a big 180 from the initial ‘repulsed by handshake’ attitude. i didn’t dare go for any kino again lol so i just kept the mood light and friendly. when the class ended she ‘seemed’ to wanna talk some more but i was still stunned and feeling gitterish so i just let her say goodbye and leave. what the hell happened? she was sitting next to me for a good hour b4 we broke into groups so she must’ve been exposed to my megadose P74 and TAC and shine nice and good. what made her disgusted with me in the first place and what changed her mind so fast? it can’t be none OD cuz i made sure to only use 2 micro dabs. i racked my brain all the way home from school and i still can’t figure out how the whole thing happened. what do u guys think? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/2 "2008-08-27T05:01:38Z")
> [@LifeT](#): > > … at first, she looked reluctant, kinda like ‘ugh..ok i guess im stuck with this guy’ then she asked for my name, i shook her hand, ‘nice to meet u’ and she acted as if she was repulsed by my touch and withdrew her hand quickly. > > but after about 30 secs (yes 30 seconds) going over the hw, i noticed a shift in her tone of voice and mood … > > what the hell happened? she was sitting next to me for a good hour b4 we broke into groups so she must’ve been exposed to my megadose P74 and TAC and shine nice and good. what made her disgusted with me in the first place and what changed her mind so fast? … > what do u guys think? 😕 First … yes, it’s happened with me, but with a different set of pheros. More than once. Fairly often when I megadose, which I like to do. Second … I know what a want to say about this, but I’ll have to work out how to say it in my sleep, then post tomorrow after work. _The skeleton of the idea is that there are some people who are **“high set”** in their response to pheros, especially to megadoses … they have very specific expectations (‘set’) for how you, as the source of mega-pheros should act. Until you start acting congruent to their ‘set’, they feel you are … disrespecting them, criticizing them, ignoring them, … whatever._ _The logic might go something like this: “If you are all hot an’ bothered and sexed up and you are not all over me, then you are being mean to me …” or “you are stupid!” or something of that sort._ Needs fleshing out and some more work, but perhaps you get the gist of it. ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/3 "2008-08-27T05:14:13Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > First … yes, it’s happened with me, but with a different set of pheros. More than once. Fairly often when I megadose, which I like to do. > > Second … I know what a want to say about this, but I’ll have to work out how to say it in my sleep, then post tomorrow after work. _The skeleton of the idea is that there are some people who are **“high set”** in their response to pheros, especially to megadoses … they have very specific expectations (‘set’) for how you, as the source of mega-pheros should act. Until you start acting congruent to their ‘set’, they feel you are … disrespecting them, criticizing them, ignoring them, … whatever._ > > _The logic might go something like this: " **If you are all hot an’ bothered and sexed up and you are not all over me, then you are being mean to me …" or “you are stupid!” or something of that sort**._ > Needs fleshing out and some more work, but perhaps you get the gist of it. OHHHHH…that actually makes sense… so im actually failing to play the ‘super cool suave dude chatting up girls’ role and so being incongruent to my megadose [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) and TAC mix…something along those lines? or more like, she thinks she’s hot so she expects a certain level of supplication or fear from guys she meets? (she was quite hot) High Set…very interesting idea, rings a bell vaguely with some PUA concept i remember from somewhere. so…would you say it’s more “approachable” to use a medium level dose instead of megadose if i don’t wanna have to worry about matching up to the ‘high set’ congruence? reps for u MarkL, i was sure i was gonna lose sleep 2nite cuz of this shit lol ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/4 "2008-08-27T07:00:07Z")
the strange thing is, i don’t remember doing anything special to trigger her ‘high set’ expectations. i was so stunned from the ‘disgusted hand pull away’ that i was fairly quiet and didn’t say much. she just all of sudden started asking me questions and smiling. at the time i was thinking maybe her hand came in contact with the NPA or IFM spot on my wrist when we shook hands and she got a point blank hit by it when she put her hand close to her face or something. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/5 "2008-08-28T05:22:16Z")
Okay, again, very quickly … someone who is ‘high set’ is ripe for **cognitive dissonance reduction.** When they have the pheromessage from you “I am hot to trot” … but you are not showing overt interest in them (doesn’t have to be supplication, just attention) … they are already in a dissonance situation. (_“What am I, chopped liver?”_) It’s human to take the shortest route to dissonance reduction, unless you are a self-reflective guru of the first order. So … you were interacting with her … even though it was after she did the hand pull … and her unconscious mind found a way to “interpret” your ongoing interaction as the kind of attention she expected (high set) from the beginning. Her interpretation was mostly projection because you weren’t really doing anything specific to seduce her (although you did think she was hot, so you might have signaled that in microgestures … unconsciously). But in the end, she did experience CD reduction … her high set expectations were (mostly self-projection) satisfied … and that IS part of the megadose effect that is effective. God, I do love playing with these molecules! ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/6 "2008-08-28T12:42:38Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > Okay, again, very quickly … someone who is ‘high set’ is ripe for **cognitive dissonance reduction.** > > When they have the pheromessage from you “I am hot to trot” … but you are not showing overt interest in them (doesn’t have to be supplication, just attention) … they are already in a dissonance situation. (_“What am I, chopped liver?”_) > > It’s human to take the shortest route to dissonance reduction, unless you are a self-reflective guru of the first order. So … you were interacting with her … even though it was after she did the hand pull … and her unconscious mind found a way to “interpret” your ongoing interaction as the kind of attention she expected (high set) from the beginning. > > Her interpretation was mostly projection because you weren’t really doing anything specific to seduce her (although you did think she was hot, so you might have signaled that in microgestures … unconsciously). > > But in the end, she did experience CD reduction … her high set expectations were (mostly self-projection) satisfied … and > > that IS part of the megadose effect that is effective. > > God, I do love playing with these molecules! Hey great post and reps to you !!! Some questions for you: - does the ‘hot to trot’ message someone gives off when megadosing on [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) necessarily have to include AndrostEnone (I thought AndrostEnone was the only pheromone that is directly telegraphing ‘I want sex now’ whereas many of the others are just hinting at friendliness and physical appearance); or do you mean something else to what I’m thinking (‘I want sex now’) when you say ‘hot to trot’? - what is the best way, in MarkL’s opinion, of capitalising on the message that megadoses send out to the target (capitalising for example in the ‘picking up’ department, please in layman’s terms as much as possible 🆒 )? - have you done any more megadose experiments as I am sure me and others would love hearing about them (especially when megadoses of putatives are involved 😃 )? ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/7 "2008-08-28T19:22:31Z")
so the CD reduction in her mind, it went something like this? (some guy who smells good sits beside her, but don’t pay enough attention to her, she feels offended or thinks this guy is standoffish or threatening. then after being introduced and some talking, she changed her mind to ‘hey maybe this guy wasn’t as unfriendly as i thought…’) and that’s when her whole attitude did the 180…i guess… Visionary, i’ll take a guess at ur questions if u don’t mind while we are waiting for guru MarkL to respond lol. i think ‘hot to trot’ doesn’t have to be limited to -none and sexual arousal. maybe the megadose [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) created an illusion of social proof or coolness? and we know social proof is very attractive to the ladies, sometimes even more so than the raw caveman -none arousal. i don’t know how to capitalize the unique effects of megadosing, but what i learned from this incident is that it seems better to always take the first step. initiate first. that way it’ll satisfy the ‘high sets’ and also making one appear much more approachable to the ‘regular sets’, cover all the bases lol ---
**Author:** ![runnerxvr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@runnerxvr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/runnerxvr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/8 "2008-08-28T21:10:30Z")
Hello LifeT! Congratulations for the test! I never went bejhond 100 mcgs of [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/), so reps to you! I think that the weird reaction of the girl was for the far too much heavy dosage of Pheros. I’m afraid that you overdosed a bit… Anyway, congratulations for the test!!! See ya Franz ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/9 "2008-08-29T04:00:19Z")
runnerxvr, actually i started using megadoses of [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) and TAC after reading Idle’s journal so the credit goes to him lol 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/10 "2008-08-29T04:15:25Z")
I wrote a longish post here rounding out what I said above and answering some of V’s questions … but it disappeared. I don’t know if my post was censored or not, heh … at the end I wrote (Sorry for threadjacking you, LifeT. Maybe a moderator will split or dupe this out of your thread and into it’s own.) So .. I have the text of the post and can repost if it disappeared accidentally, or I can cut out whatever might have been inappropriate (I mentioned a fragrance product from IFF that is supposed to have possible pheromonal properties.) Visionary and LifeT have the post contents by PM. ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/11 "2008-08-29T04:30:06Z")
here’s MarkL’s awesome post that disappeared. 🙂 " Heya V., thanks for the kind words. I sense this forum is more … mutually supportive, encouraging … than it was when I first found it. Or maybe the neggists / naysayers / whiners just moved on when they saw the success here? No matter, my compliments to all the guests, and to our hosts for making this such a friendly place. On to your questions: Quote: Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) - - does the ‘hot to trot’ message someone gives off when megadosing on pheromones necessarily have to include [AndrostEnone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) (I thought [AndrostEnone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) was the only pheromone that is directly telegraphing ‘I want sex now’ whereas many of the others are just hinting at friendliness and physical appearance); or do you mean something else to what I’m thinking (‘I want sex now’) when you say ‘hot to trot’?\* In my experience, it does not ~have~ to include Enone … I wrote a detailed field report of a megadose situation with [EST](https://phera.com/) a while back. I’ll confess the bias of my experiences, though … 19 times out of 20 I’m wearing plenty of Enone – 30 to 100 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) – as part of a megadose adventure. Note: I think of megadose as anything over 500 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) total, usually 750 to 1500 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram). Honors to toilofday and tacitus for pushing me to “uncap” and try larger signatures. Also note: I’m in my mid-fifties, blood type A neg. 30 to 100 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) of Enone might easily ghost you (or worse) if you’re 18 or 25 or 35, depending on your blood type and other physical factors. Everything I’ve seen here tells me that you should heed the dosage advice from Androtics unless and until you’ve … carefully … proved that you’re exempt. I started my self-experiments with one (1) [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) sprays of [androstenone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) and worked up to spraying 10 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) at a time. I commend you to do likewise. * * * I expect, if you’ve been using pheros for a while, you will agree with me that there are some people who are very much aware of pheros as social communication; it is as if you are “speaking out loud” to them with your pheros and every one else has their iPod ears on and tuned out. (I’ve had situations where girls literally start sniffing in my direction and begin to rub their thighs together, wetting their jeans. It’s sort of … shocking … and an honor at the same time.) Perhaps it’s just that old “bell curve” distribution again, and degree of phero-recognition is purely inborn, or maybe there is some socialization that helps people learn to recognize “pherotalk”. If I had to run a research project my hypothesis would be that both innate ability and learning are operating – like Olympic athletes, the genetics determines the limits of potential and the experience, practice, learning and coaching helps you push past “perceived limits” and approach your true potential. So, first, in order to have a “high set” of firm expectations for pheros, the individual has to be at least somewhat phero-aware. But the reason I’m going to theorize that Enone does not have to be involved is this: it’s the individual’s experiences and beliefs that define their set. I think they could have high-set responses that are based on just about any kind of phero experience. For example, if you are wearing a megadose of Shine, and the individual believes that anyone who is Shining should be trying to get close to them/him/her … if you’re not giving that attention, then s/he has dissonance: /a/ you are shining, /b/ you should X (with me) when you are shining, but /c/ you are ~not~ X with me —\> dissonance. Quote: Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) - - what is the best way, in MarkL’s opinion, of capitalising on the message that megadoses send out to the target (capitalising for example in the ‘picking up’ d .epartment, please in layman’s terms as much as possible )?\* 1. For someone in dissonance: if you are interested, be the source or trigger for the dissonance reduction. GO ACTIVE. Interact with the person. Just Do It. Say Anything. As LifeT showed, the stronger the dissonance effect, the more the person will deliberately project an interpretation on your actions: he just went over the homework with her, and 30 seconds later her tone and behavior was changing. 2. Someone who is phero-aware but not in dissonance (perhaps they don’t have as high a level of self-esteem as a high-set person) does not see your ‘big’ signature revolving around your response to him or her. If you are interested it would seem the first step is to convey your specific interest in him or her … I flirt. 3. Those who are not consciously pheroaware … responses (ethanol aided-or not) run the gamut, only often more x-treeeme than with a more normal pherodose: -immediate and strong fear (“something happening here is unnatural, perhaps the devil is present!”) -puzzlement / bewilderment (“why the hell do I suddenly find THAT guy so interesting? OMG, I’m attracted to HIM?”) -enlisting henchmen/women (“dance with me, then when I’m in front of Him, push me back into Him”) So, from a PUA perspective, it’s just expecting and being prepared for more extreme responses .. and to really take behaviors at face value .. if he or she bumps into your crotch, it’s not a bloody accident, heh. Be prepared to shorten timelines … if you’d normally spend 20 minutes from open to a phone close or 40 minutes to a kiss close, just be aware of the slightly higher possibility that your target could be prepared for a 10 minute let’s-go-to-your-place close. Be prepared to get what you ask for … RIGHT NOW. OTOH, tt’s not all magical fun, either. I know when I megadose I will get attention from people I’d prefer to avoid interacting with. Girls with entitlement issues feel entitled to grab my hat and wear it. NOT! I’ve been knocked down on the dance floor … playfully … which I might have enjoyed when I was 25. People with no social skills but intent on “going for it” with me standing next to me, in front of me, behind me … while I am trying to dance, they are standing there grinning but otherwise unmoving. Sometimes spilling their drinks on me. Some people will not be high-set, they will be high-maint: they are not upset that you’re not responding to them, they are angry or jealous that you are getting any attention at all … since they, by right, deserve all of everyone’s attention. Couples … where one half of the couple is flirting with me and the other half is being kept ignorant … or when the other half is very aware and becoming angry … Very, very, very drunk people who no longer have the last forwarding address of their last inhibition – and who want to lavish that uninhibited energy on me. In public. While I am dancing and flirting with someone who is not drunk. rant] (I’ll ~sleep~ with someone who’s had a few drinks – and I mean cuddle up and sleep – but I won’t have sex under the influence. A glass or two of wine with dinner, okay. A single cocktail or beer, no problem. Maybe I’m a lightweight, maybe I have unrealistic expectations … I like to be fully aware and I can pretty much cast aside my own inhibitions without alcohol. I want to look into eyes responding with intimacy, not eyes that are glazed with booze.) / rant] Quote: Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) - - have you done any more megadose experiments as I am sure me and others would love hearing about them (especially when megadoses of [putatives](https://a314.com/) are involved )?\* My [putative](https://a314.com/) budget is pretty tight. My last order included 30ml of [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) 10 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram), about $28. With 200 sprays per bottle, a minimum megadose of [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) is 50 sprays and runs $7 for the experiment. I am sure to enjoy a tankard of Guinness draft for $7, and have to balance that against the potential for [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) megadose fun. Recently got an 80ml bottle of Iso E Super, a fragrance chemical created by IFF that is reported to have some phero-like qualities. I’ve started playing with it, but nothing substantive to report. I’m also unable to quantify exactly what a megadose of Iso E Super might be, other than to just pour it on liberally. (ISO E has a recommended usage rate of 10% of the total scent in a formulation; e.g. 10% ISO E, 50% clary sage, 40% vetiver. But the total scent in a perfume usually maxes out at 30% of the volume, the rest being alcohol; cologne 18%; toilet water 8% So … one drop of pure ISO E would be the equivalent of about 33 drops of the strongest perfume with the maximum recommended amount of ISO E.) Any suggestions? I’ve just started playing with (non-megadose) Shine v2.1. I want to run several more trials, but my initial experiences confirm the somewhat longer persistence of the effect reported by others (is this the fixative or is it because the Shine was 4x?) What others have not reported is a “youth” effect that is more pronounced. I have a notable uptick in people finding it hard to believe I’m as old as I am when using the new Shine. Perhaps it’s flattery or maybe I just seem physically younger, meh. I’ll put down some of the high notes of my mega-dose adventures while I was gone on ‘walkabout’ sometime next week if I can. (Sorry for threadjacking you, LifeT. Maybe a moderator will split or dupe this out of your thread and into it’s own.) " ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/12 "2008-08-29T04:33:13Z")
don’t worry about any threadjacking cuz it looks like the same topic to me, and we love hearing words of wisdom from u, can’t get enough lol.😃 ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/13 "2008-08-29T04:35:20Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > I wrote a longish post here rounding out what I said above and answering some of V’s questions … but it disappeared. Me too - I wrote something and it seems to have disappeared. Some very good thoughts here. With what has been said in mind … coulda been that the phero load was high enough it was a little overwhelming until you opened her socially - then once you initiated contact the social integrated and overcame the intial phero overload. Then again I have met girls before who are just like her at that age - I have had them initially look at me and act is if they had just stepped in something but once I talked to them they warmed up and were friendly ever after. Who knows … some people are just … like that. ---
**Author:** ![LifeT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@LifeT](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LifeT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/14 "2008-08-29T04:50:22Z")
bosshank, do u still have the post? pm it to me and i’ll try posting it. yeah, some girls are just …like that. lol had the same class today, went in 5 min late and voila what a coincidence there were 2 seats left, one next to a fat girl and one next to the same hot girl. i chose to sit next to the fat girl (yes i suck i know lol) but i had a good time chatting her up and later another girl joined in our group and it was fun and relaxing. i totally forgot about the hot girl. then at the end of the class she walked past me and said ‘hey there’ with a smile. (had megadose on today as well) wonder who i’ll sit with next time lol, it really depends on how late i am. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/15 "2008-08-31T03:16:29Z")
> [@LifeT](#): > > here’s MarkL’s awesome post that disappeared. 🙂 > > " Heya V., thanks for the kind words. I sense this forum is more … mutually supportive, encouraging … than it was when I first found it. Or maybe the neggists / naysayers / whiners just moved on when they saw the success here? > > No matter, my compliments to all the guests, and to our hosts for making this such a friendly place. > > On to your questions: > Quote: > Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) > _- does the ‘hot to trot’ message someone gives off when megadosing on pheromones necessarily have to include [AndrostEnone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) (I thought [AndrostEnone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) was the only pheromone that is directly telegraphing ‘I want sex now’ whereas many of the others are just hinting at friendliness and physical appearance); or do you mean something else to what I’m thinking (‘I want sex now’) when you say ‘hot to trot’?_ > > In my experience, it does not ~have~ to include Enone … I wrote a detailed field report of a megadose situation with [EST](https://phera.com/) a while back. I’ll confess the bias of my experiences, though … 19 times out of 20 I’m wearing plenty of Enone – 30 to 100 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) – as part of a megadose adventure. > > Note: I think of megadose as anything over 500 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) total, usually 750 to 1500 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram). Honors to toilofday and tacitus for pushing me to “uncap” and try larger signatures. > > Also note: I’m in my mid-fifties, blood type A neg. 30 to 100 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) of Enone might easily ghost you (or worse) if you’re 18 or 25 or 35, depending on your blood type and other physical factors. Everything I’ve seen here tells me that you should heed the dosage advice from Androtics unless and until you’ve … carefully … proved that you’re exempt. I started my self-experiments with one (1) [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) sprays of [androstenone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) and worked up to spraying 10 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) at a time. I commend you to do likewise. > > * * * > > I expect, if you’ve been using pheros for a while, you will agree with me that there are some people who are very much aware of pheros as social communication; it is as if you are “speaking out loud” to them with your pheros and every one else has their iPod ears on and tuned out. (I’ve had situations where girls literally start sniffing in my direction and begin to rub their thighs together, wetting their jeans. It’s sort of … shocking … and an honor at the same time.) > > Perhaps it’s just that old “bell curve” distribution again, and degree of phero-recognition is purely inborn, or maybe there is some socialization that helps people learn to recognize “pherotalk”. If I had to run a research project my hypothesis would be that both innate ability and learning are operating – like Olympic athletes, the genetics determines the limits of potential and the experience, practice, learning and coaching helps you push past “perceived limits” and approach your true potential. > > So, first, in order to have a “high set” of firm expectations for pheros, the individual has to be at least somewhat phero-aware. But the reason I’m going to theorize that Enone does not have to be involved is this: it’s the individual’s experiences and beliefs that define their set. I think they could have high-set responses that are based on just about any kind of phero experience. > > For example, if you are wearing a megadose of Shine, and the individual believes that anyone who is Shining should be trying to get close to them/him/her … if you’re not giving that attention, then s/he has dissonance: /a/ you are shining, /b/ you should X (with me) when you are shining, but /c/ you are ~not~ X with me —\> dissonance. > > Quote: > Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) > _- what is the best way, in MarkL’s opinion, of capitalising on the message that megadoses send out to the target (capitalising for example in the ‘picking up’ d .epartment, please in layman’s terms as much as possible )?_ > > 1. For someone in dissonance: if you are interested, be the source or trigger for the dissonance reduction. GO ACTIVE. Interact with the person. Just Do It. Say Anything. As LifeT showed, the stronger the dissonance effect, the more the person will deliberately project an interpretation on your actions: he just went over the homework with her, and 30 seconds later her tone and behavior was changing. > 2. Someone who is phero-aware but not in dissonance (perhaps they don’t have as high a level of self-esteem as a high-set person) does not see your ‘big’ signature revolving around your response to him or her. If you are interested it would seem the first step is to convey your specific interest in him or her … I flirt. > 3. Those who are not consciously pheroaware … responses (ethanol aided-or not) run the gamut, only often more x-treeeme than with a more normal pherodose: > -immediate and strong fear (“something happening here is unnatural, perhaps the devil is present!”) > -puzzlement / bewilderment (“why the hell do I suddenly find THAT guy so interesting? OMG, I’m attracted to HIM?”) > -enlisting henchmen/women (“dance with me, then when I’m in front of Him, push me back into Him”) > > So, from a PUA perspective, it’s just expecting and being prepared for more extreme responses .. and to really take behaviors at face value .. if he or she bumps into your crotch, it’s not a bloody accident, heh. Be prepared to shorten timelines … if you’d normally spend 20 minutes from open to a phone close or 40 minutes to a kiss close, just be aware of the slightly higher possibility that your target could be prepared for a 10 minute let’s-go-to-your-place close. Be prepared to get what you ask for … RIGHT NOW. > > OTOH, tt’s not all magical fun, either. I know when I megadose I will get attention from people I’d prefer to avoid interacting with. Girls with entitlement issues feel entitled to grab my hat and wear it. NOT! I’ve been knocked down on the dance floor … playfully … which I might have enjoyed when I was 25. People with no social skills but intent on “going for it” with me standing next to me, in front of me, behind me … while I am trying to dance, they are standing there grinning but otherwise unmoving. Sometimes spilling their drinks on me. Some people will not be high-set, they will be high-maint: they are not upset that you’re not responding to them, they are angry or jealous that you are getting any attention at all … since they, by right, deserve all of everyone’s attention. Couples … where one half of the couple is flirting with me and the other half is being kept ignorant … or when the other half is very aware and becoming angry … Very, very, very drunk people who no longer have the last forwarding address of their last inhibition – and who want to lavish that uninhibited energy on me. In public. While I am dancing and flirting with someone who is not drunk. rant] (I’ll ~sleep~ with someone who’s had a few drinks – and I mean cuddle up and sleep – but I won’t have sex under the influence. A glass or two of wine with dinner, okay. A single cocktail or beer, no problem. Maybe I’m a lightweight, maybe I have unrealistic expectations … I like to be fully aware and I can pretty much cast aside my own inhibitions without alcohol. I want to look into eyes responding with intimacy, not eyes that are glazed with booze.) / rant] > > Quote: > Originally Posted by **Socrates** [Masculinity? Why shouldn't women wear men's pheromones to get a masculine aura? - #2 by Domingo](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/masculinity/1603/2) > _- have you done any more megadose experiments as I am sure me and others would love hearing about them (especially when megadoses of [putatives](https://a314.com/) are involved )?_ > > My [putative](https://a314.com/) budget is pretty tight. My last order included 30ml of [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) 10 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram), about $28. With 200 sprays per bottle, a minimum megadose of [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) is 50 sprays and runs $7 for the experiment. I am sure to enjoy a tankard of Guinness draft for $7, and have to balance that against the potential for [TAK](https://pheromonelabs.com/) megadose fun. > > Recently got an 80ml bottle of Iso E Super, a fragrance chemical created by IFF that is reported to have some phero-like qualities. I’ve started playing with it, but nothing substantive to report. I’m also unable to quantify exactly what a megadose of Iso E Super might be, other than to just pour it on liberally. (ISO E has a recommended usage rate of 10% of the total scent in a formulation; e.g. 10% ISO E, 50% clary sage, 40% vetiver. But the total scent in a perfume usually maxes out at 30% of the volume, the rest being alcohol; cologne 18%; toilet water 8% So … one drop of pure ISO E would be the equivalent of about 33 drops of the strongest perfume with the maximum recommended amount of ISO E.) Any suggestions? > > I’ve just started playing with (non-megadose) Shine v2.1. I want to run several more trials, but my initial experiences confirm the somewhat longer persistence of the effect reported by others (is this the fixative or is it because the Shine was 4x?) What others have not reported is a “youth” effect that is more pronounced. I have a notable uptick in people finding it hard to believe I’m as old as I am when using the new Shine. Perhaps it’s flattery or maybe I just seem physically younger, meh. > > I’ll put down some of the high notes of my mega-dose adventures while I was gone on ‘walkabout’ sometime next week if I can. > > (Sorry for threadjacking you, LifeT. Maybe a moderator will split or dupe this out of your thread and into it’s own.) " Thanks for posting this LifeT. Some great points raised there. I will have to include, some of MarkL’s excellent posts on megadoses in my compilation: ['Pheromones for pickup' strategies](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-for-pickup-strategies/5873) If tacitus was the king of the sexmix megadose, MarkL is the king of using megadoses in pickup and generally social situations. Great understanding of what is actually going on and that insight has to be captured. I will also have to read some of toilofday and MadisonTate’s notes for other perspectives on using the megadoses in social situations… ---
**Author:** ![ntk23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/65b543/32.png) [@ntk23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ntk23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/16 "2008-08-31T03:33:34Z")
Awesome thread. Do you think, then, that perhaps a carefully controlled use of such dissonance, consciously, can be useful in social and PU situations? Very much like dissonance is actually used musically, or even with things like the famous “negs” in the Mystery Method. So that the cunning and well timed bursts of _in_congruence can build tension which is released, when one finally starts acting true to one’s signature, if you see what I mean. And the sudden relief that the target feels, when the dissonance is resolved, will work in the wearer’s favour - like a lot of energy is released all of a sudden. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/17 "2008-08-31T03:43:32Z")
One of my favorite combinations puts a large dose of A314 (respect, royal distance) with a shower of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) (happy, happy, joy, joy, let me climb into your pocket / personal space.) There is an innate tension between the two, sometimes I just let it build .. it can be fairly dramatic. It’s the classic “approach-avoidance conflict” in five drops and five sprays. And yes, then you can initiate the release, timing the moment to suit your purpose. ---
**Author:** ![ntk23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/65b543/32.png) [@ntk23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ntk23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/18 "2008-08-31T04:03:54Z")
5:5 eh? Cheers Mark, I may just try that real soon. I am reminded of Desmond Morris’ book The Naked Ape. One of the speculative theories on body language there, as I recall, concerned the meaning of a “coy” look, which was illustrated by a downcast head (indicating shyness) combined with a direct gaze (indicating boldness) - a curious mixed signal. ---
**Author:** ![tfer15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tfer15/32/711_2.png) [@tfer15](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tfer15)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/19 "2008-08-31T04:31:44Z")
Yeah. i cant wait to get my degree in psychology. i really want to study the psychology of behavior that is indirect like ‘underneath’ of what you think. like kinda like primordial thoughts and subconcious thoughts. very kool 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329/20 "2008-09-06T02:18:20Z")
> [@tfer15](#): > > Yeah. i cant wait to get my degree in psychology. i really want to study the psychology of behavior that is indirect like ‘underneath’ of what you think. like kinda like primordial thoughts and subconcious thoughts. very kool 🆒 There are a few good text resources on /a/ consciousness … and /b/ on unconscious cognition. **Consciousness** Daniel Dennett is a demigod researcher of consciousness … the science of consciousness, not new wave spirituality … and he’s also a pioneering author in the field of computer science. _Consciousness Explained_ is pretty good; he’s also written _Kinds of Minds: Toward an Understanding of Consciousness_ which I haven’t hit yet. _Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ and _The Mind’s I_ are two amazing books by Douglas Hofstader on human self-identity, consciousness, and computer/machine intelligence. They’re both very much written in layman’s terms with a sense of fun. Big ideas, bold presentation. _The Owner’s Manual for the Brain: Everyday Applications from Mind-Brain Research 3rd Edition_ by Pierce J. Howard is over 1,000 pages of plain talk about the brain and consciousness, from embryo to old age, from neurochemicals and synapses to ideation and hypnosis. What ~is~ learning? Amazon has this one for under $20 and it’s a steal at twice the price. Nice “chunking” of concepts and issues … for example, there’s a brief chapter on what we can learn or guess about the brain and consciousness from things like “hysterical blindness” as well as from strokes, and split-brain research. I’ve been nibbling my way through this one for a while. And … just about anything by Richard Dawkins will get around to issues of consciousness sooner or later. Even more interesting to me is the field of **Unconscious Cognition** (UC): _The New Unconscious (Social Cognition and Social Neuroscience)_ by Ran R. Hassin, James S. Uleman, and John A. Bargh has twenty some chapters on developing thought in UC – many things that used to be considered requiring conscious choice and conscious intent are now being found to be non-conscious processes as well. (My favorite: 80 to 200 milliseconds ~before~ research volunteers become aware of being thirsty, muscle twitches in the arm(s) are recorded as the arm and hand begin to move toward the glass of water. The “I am thirsty” awareness in consciousness came **AFTER** the non-conscious choice to reach for water.) _Implicit Learning and Tacit Knowledge: An Essay on the Cognitive Unconscious_ by Arthur S. Reber is a fairly technical work … which most books in this field will be. _Between Emotion and Cognition: The Generative Unconscious_ by Joseph Newirth is another textbook type book, but very worthwhile. I’m saving up for _Out of Mind: Varieties of Unconscious Processes_ by Beatrice De Gelder, Edward H. F. De Haan, and Charles A. Heywood; it retails for $220+ and used is over $50, heh! It’s on my wish list … 😉 Hope this helps you if you feel ready to “prime” your psychology learning. Sad to say, I found many of my psych classes in college to be … (if not terminally boring) just mildly interesting; most were a bit too abstract for my taste. (I took a minor in psych.) Maybe I was just impatient! [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/really-weird-reaction-this-ever-happen-to-u/18329.md?page=2)