# Refined P83 **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [December 1, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566 "2011-12-01T13:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/1 "2011-12-01T13:13:13Z")
Jasmin said that [P93](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p93/) which has been used successfully in the ICM line is refined P88. I believe she also said that the P88 was inconsistent before the refining process. One questions for the chemists. **How do you refine a single molecule?** (details please) ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/2 "2011-12-01T17:47:56Z")
Perhaps they used a process to burn out any impurities. Michael mentioned a long while back they had refined A314 special version and the difference was so much smoother. Not a chemist, but there are obvious ways they can refine a process. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/3 "2011-12-01T18:33:33Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Perhaps they used a process to burn out any impurities. Michael mentioned a long while back they had refined A314 special version and the difference was so much smoother. Not a chemist, but there are obvious ways they can refine a process. 😃 I wonder if Androtics uses a centrifuge to refine P88? It may be worth it if Androtics came out with a “Refined” line of products. From your reviews A314 ultrafine seemed to be a damn good product. It would be worth the extra money. Sometimes I wish Androtics would move faster in meeting the demands and suggestions of its consumers. However, I understand the financial constraints that Androtics is under. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@The\_Hammer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/The_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/4 "2011-12-01T20:28:38Z")
I doubt that a centrifuge is used to refine anything that they sell. Such a process would be relatively simple and I would think that the chemists themselves would do such a thing in the first place. I wonder if the molecules can be refined by separating different stereoisomers of the same compound? I never thought about it, but I bet the mixtures are racemic. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/5 "2011-12-02T00:38:13Z")
> [@The\_Hammer](#): > > I doubt that a centrifuge is used to refine anything that they sell. Such a process would be relatively simple and I would think that the chemists themselves would do such a thing in the first place. > > I wonder if the molecules can be refined by separating different stereoisomers of the same compound? I never thought about it, but I bet the mixtures are racemic. **Huh? Why not use a centrifuge? Mechanical separation by** **difference in density (particles & drops) is done by sedimentation, decanter, demister and centrifuge**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@The\_Hammer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/The_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/6 "2011-12-02T00:44:19Z")
Right, but that type of purification is cheap and easy to do. As androtics sources (sourced) from some of the best chemists, I have no doubt that if a centrifuge could be used to increase purity that it was done. I can’t see a reason that it wouldn’t have been done. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/7 "2011-12-02T01:48:13Z")
> [@The\_Hammer](#): > > Right, but that type of purification is cheap and easy to do. As androtics sources (sourced) from some of the best chemists, I have no doubt that if a centrifuge could be used to increase purity that it was done. I can’t see a reason that it wouldn’t have been done. Ok Hammer. The original statement and question was: > [@paradox1](#): > > Jasmin said that P93 which has been used successfully in the ICM line is refined P88. > > I believe she also said that the P88 was inconsistent before the refining process. > > One questions for the chemists. > > **How do you refine a single molecule?** (details please) Thanks for your input. I am seeking a working knowledge of this process. I appreciate your input but I am looking for a different answer than the one you are providing. Take care ---
**Author:** ![hoplessly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hoplessly/32/2319_2.png) [@hoplessly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hoplessly)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/8 "2011-12-02T01:51:33Z")
You misunderstand the use of refining. you purify p88 you should have p93. Jasmins explanation of p88 was that it was a rough synthesis and p93 was a stricter lab procedure to return a purer yield of that molecule. P88 was said to have active impurities as a result of this rough synthesis. If its an impurity its in such a small amount along with who knows what other impurities active or inactive are in there. > [@P88 - The Urge to Merge](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p88-the-urge-to-merge/33120/30): > > Reverse Engineering the Effects of P88 Jasmin has ended our wait for P88 with [a post, I’m sure, nobody expected](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/rough-synthesis-vs-perfect-p88-vs-p93/40741/1). In brief, P88 is an irreproducible batch of P93 from a now defunct lab. P88’s distinctive qualities are the result of unknown impurities. Hence my quest to determine what those impurities might be. More than just Androstenone and P93 At first, I thought Androstenone might be a key component. It is the relatively prevalent, grandfather pheromone molecule, a reasonable place for … What you should really be asking is why dont they identify that “impurity” and make it. The problem with the rough synthesis as explained by jasmin is that its not always repeatable. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/9 "2011-12-02T02:20:34Z")
> [@hoplessly](#): > > You misunderstand the use of refining. > > you purify p88 you should have p93. Jasmins explanation of p88 was that it was a rough synthesis and p93 was a stricter lab procedure to return a purer yield of that molecule. P88 was said to have active impurities as a result of this rough synthesis. If its an impurity its in such a small amount along with who knows what other impurities active or inactive are in there. > > [P88 - The Urge to Merge - #30 by Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p88-the-urge-to-merge/33120/30) > > What you should really be asking is why dont they identify that “impurity” and make it. > > The problem with the rough synthesis as explained by jasmin is that its not always repeatable. I found the article > [@Rough synthesis vs. "perfect" - P88 vs. P93](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/rough-synthesis-vs-perfect-p88-vs-p93/40741): > > P88 vs. P93 - Rough synthesis vs. “perfect” (or what chemists call “standard” synthesis) I think we’ve blind tested the two long enough to reveal this. While the bulk of the chemicals in our P line are absolutely unique structures, sometimes we do have two different synthesis paths of what should technically be “the same” molecule. In this case, P93 and P88 have a very unique relationship. P93 is the absolute laboratory standard, meticulously synthesized in small batches with TLC at every syn… I guess the question is: Is [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) a lab refined molecule or a commercial molecule? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/refined-p83/53566/10 "2011-12-04T01:05:48Z")
Isomerism? That would be my speculation. Many molecules exist in right-hand and left-hand versions. Many synthetic pathways will give one a mixture of right and left while others can give one or the other. Biology tends to favor the right or dextro over the left or levo arrangements. An example is amphetamine - the mixture. More biologically active on a pure molecule basis is the right-hand version, Dexadrine or dextro-amphetamine. Most amino acids and right handed. Left, right, and mixed weigh the same.