# Reject passivity **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [February 1, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005 "2011-02-01T15:08:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RisenAlpha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@RisenAlpha](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RisenAlpha)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/1 "2011-02-01T15:08:52Z")
OK so for the last 2 weeks I have been waking up at 5am every Thursday morning to go to a class called Men’s Fraternity- Search for Authentic Manhood. It’s a Christian class that discusses what men are vs what the world says men are. It discusses Adam and it discusses Jesus. It talks about the differences between man and woman. It also discusses the real first sin that would flourish from generation to generation. That first sin was passivity. Adam was given authority and some rules to follow by God. Adam passed those rules on to Eve. Yet when Eve was talking to the serpent, Adam stood by and did nothing. He let Eve take a bite of the fruit knowing that God said they would die if they ate the fruit. He was going to sit back, let her make the decision, and then wait to see if it was a good decision or not. Then when God called Adam out for being disobedient. What did Adam says? “This woman, that you gave me..” He played the victim card. He became passive. He didn’t take charge. Everyday men sit back and wait. They are passive. They don’t make decisions. They don’t participate at all. Then they pull the victim card. I refuse to behave this way any further. My new truth is to reject passivity. I realize that by sitting back and doing nothing, I am still making a decision. There is no such thing as not caring or having no opinion. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/2 "2011-02-01T17:26:00Z")
JW, You know I would never ever try to offend you. I’m trying to find out how to word this carefully and this is by no means an attack to you or your beliefs. I think its more about being human overall. Anyone, regardless of a man or a woman should be able to take charge of their own destiny and choices. How is it Adam’s responsibility to make sure Eve didn’t eat the apple. First of all, to take a metaphorical story and turn it into something else is just picking and choosing what works and what doesn’t just doesn’t make any sense to me. However, I’m really glad you got things moving forward for you and making a positive change. I just hope that some of the things that some of the church teaches aren’t misconstruted incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Blacky\_Chan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/blacky_chan/32/973_2.png) [@Blacky\_Chan](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Blacky_Chan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/3 "2011-02-01T18:05:52Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > JW, > > You know I would never ever try to offend you. I’m trying to find out how to word this carefully and this is by no means an attack to you or your beliefs. > > I think its more about being human overall. Anyone, regardless of a man or a woman should be able to take charge of their own destiny and choices. How is it Adam’s responsibility to make sure Eve didn’t eat the apple. > > First of all, to take a metaphorical story and turn it into something else is just picking and choosing what works and what doesn’t just doesn’t make any sense to me. > > However, I’m really glad you got things moving forward for you and making a positive change. I just hope that some of the things that some of the church teaches aren’t misconstruted incorrectly. I grew up in a very religious family, the moment I decided to live my life according my beliefs as opposed to some book everything got better. I simply decided i was just going to try and do the right thing. Some people just need religion like a crutch. It just sickens me when people pervert religion to justify their own prejudices and misconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/4 "2011-02-01T18:15:49Z")
> [@Blacky\_Chan](#): > > I grew up in a very religious family, the moment I decided to live my life according my beliefs as opposed to some book everything got better. I simply decided i was just going to try and do the right thing. Some people just need religion like a crutch. It just sickens me when people pervert religion to justify their own prejudices and misconceptions. So did I. Kinda why that hit a nerve with me. ---
**Author:** ![RisenAlpha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@RisenAlpha](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RisenAlpha)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/5 "2011-02-01T18:59:27Z")
Wow! not exactly the response I was expecting. I didn’t think you would get hung up on the religious aspect of the story. So let me put it another way, because I believe truth is truth no matter where it comes from. If I were to go on vacation somewhere and someone I knew to be an authority on the place told me hey don’t eat this type of fruit because you will die and then while I’m on vacation someone tells my wife that it’s ok to eat the fruit, then I would say something. I would tell my wife not to eat the fruit. I wouldn’t let her eat the fruit. What I’m talking about is sitting back and watching for things to happen instead confronting right and wrong. How is it Adam’s responsibility? It’s his wife. That’s how. Because he cares about her. If I saw a kid standing on the edge of a bridge ready to jump into a river, I’m not going to watch. I’m going to say “Hey you shouldn’t do that. It’s a bad idea.” If I see someone stealing or taking advantage of someone else, I’m going to say something. Should I not be responsible? Do I not have the ability respond? Yes everyone has the right to make their own destinity, but let me say this there are a lot of people in this world today that will turn their heads and ignore something that they have the ability to stop. Yet we do nothing. If you feel that my post sickened you or was perverted, or that it’s against what you believe, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/6 "2011-02-01T19:11:27Z")
Well Y’all know where I stand on this LOL Religion can be such a touchy subject for some. Its hard when someone questions something you have such deep beliefs in. I mean no offence to any religious belief either. If it brings you comfort, helps you grow and helps you connect with your personal spirituality then I am all for it as long as you see it with clarity. I do believe part of the story of Adam and Eve was about passivity. I just dont believe “god” wrote it. I believe those involved with the pre-birth of the Roman Catholic religion wrote it for a purpose. It was just another fable created to control the masses, to plant that little seed of control. They wanted people to believe passivity was sinful because then you would tell on your neighbor. What better way to control the masses ? What better way then to have your very subjects spilling there guts to the bishop or religious advisor who was usually part of the ruler of the times entourage to find out what your subjects where up to. If you didnt tell you were guilty of the sin of passivity and destined to burn in the fires of hell along with the person guilty of whatever pissed the ruler off to begin with. Just knowing and not telling could get you thrown in the rulers dungeons. This is not to say I believe in passivity. I think people should take responsibility for there actions. I think there is a time when you need to step up and take charge and there is a time when you need to let people make there mistakes because its the only way they can grow. If its gonna kill them then of course stop them LOL What ever you believe though I am glad as well that this story inspired you to be more mindful and active in the world around you. Its all good. Just wanted to add since Josie and I were posting at the same time. I dont think anyone is sickened by your post. I think we were more worried you would be sickened by our response LOL. However even though are beliefs may be different we had a choice. Be passive and not respond with our beliefs or tell you what we believe. We chose to not be passive 😉 Tisha ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/7 "2011-02-01T19:45:26Z")
> [@JosieW](#): > > Wow! not exactly the response I was expecting. I didn’t think you would get hung up on the religious aspect of the story. So let me put it another way, because I believe truth is truth no matter where it comes from. > > If I were to go on vacation somewhere and someone I knew to be an authority on the place told me hey don’t eat this type of fruit because you will die and then while I’m on vacation someone tells my wife that it’s ok to eat the fruit, then I would say something. I would tell my wife not to eat the fruit. I wouldn’t let her eat the fruit. > > What I’m talking about is sitting back and watching for things to happen instead confronting right and wrong. How is it Adam’s responsibility? It’s his wife. That’s how. Because he cares about her. If I saw a kid standing on the edge of a bridge ready to jump into a river, I’m not going to watch. I’m going to say “Hey you shouldn’t do that. It’s a bad idea.” If I see someone stealing or taking advantage of someone else, I’m going to say something. Should I not be responsible? Do I not have the ability respond? > > Yes everyone has the right to make their own destinity, but let me say this there are a lot of people in this world today that will turn their heads and ignore something that they have the ability to stop. Yet we do nothing. If you feel that my post sickened you or was perverted, or that it’s against what you believe, then so be it. I like the core theory of it, I just don’t like the way it was disseminated to the group. But I would like to propose this and this is probably going in deeper than it should, and feel free not to respond because this is going into a theological and idealogical discourse that would probably go off on a different tangent than you expected. Like tisha said we were more worried about how our responses would come out, because I hold you in high regard and respect you. But just a few things that I’d like to come across with. > [@](#): > > What I’m talking about is sitting back and watching for things to happen instead confronting right and wrong. How is it Adam’s responsibility? It’s his wife. That’s how. Because he cares about her. If I saw a kid standing on the edge of a bridge ready to jump into a river, I’m not going to watch. I’m going to say “Hey you shouldn’t do that. It’s a bad idea.” If I see someone stealing or taking advantage of someone else, I’m going to say something. Should I not be responsible? Do I not have the ability respond? My whole argument is not whether its Adam’s responsibility to save his wife, but like with any person we have a relationship with, it is our instinct to protect them, regardless of whether the relationship is husband to wife, mother to child, friend to friend. And you are correct that he cares about her and him being passive was viewed as “evil” because he didn’t do things that would protect her but how realistic is that story, it isn’t. It just has so many flaws in the way its told that I believe it gives a wrong impression of how to act. Your own interpretation makes more sense which I do agree with you on that. But I sensed that it is wrong, and almost evil to be passive. It’s not JW, there is a reason for free will, which is also a core teaching of the church. Some people can be internalized and quiet and be passive. You can let someone step all over you or do harm to others and you can just stand there. Whether it be out of fear, or complacency, it’s a choice that ALL humans are allowed to make, to make it something that’s worse, or even call it a sin, is imposing a specific belief to people who might not feel/believe the same things as you. You can have two different people that will cower and hide when someones getting hurt and some that will go there and try to help. The question you ask yourself is, what is really sinful about the one who didn’t do anything and hid? Really nothing, it was the flight or fight response and the body decided to fly, normal reaction amongst humans. I’ll also give you the same analogy, soldiers are taught and conditioned to run to danger and confront it. If a solider kills someone that’s advancing on a position but that person wasn’t a direct threat to the soldier, and it was only assumed they were going to harm them, then who is in the right and who is in the wrong. If the soldier is passive and doesn’t do anything and the person never harms anyone, wouldn’t that soldier who was passive knowing imminent danger have made the right decision? I point out these out of the world but feasible examples because you can shoot holes in that theory all day along as opposed to your own explaination that you should take charge of your life and don’t make excuses (that’s what I gathered), that’s positive changes with no other excuses or strings attached. I was merely just arguing against their methods of teaching rather than your belief system. ---
**Author:** ![RisenAlpha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@RisenAlpha](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RisenAlpha)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/8 "2011-02-01T20:01:14Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Well Y’all know where I stand on this LOL > > Religion can be such a touchy subject for some. Its hard when someone questions something you have such deep beliefs in. I mean no offence to any religious belief either. If it brings you comfort, helps you grow and helps you connect with your personal spirituality then I am all for it as long as you see it with clarity. > > I do believe part of the story of Adam and Eve was about passivity. I just dont believe “god” wrote it. I believe those involved with the pre-birth of the Roman Catholic religion wrote it for a purpose. It was just another fable created to control the masses, to plant that little seed of control. They wanted people to believe passivity was sinful because then you would tell on your neighbor. What better way to control the masses ? What better way then to have your very subjects spilling there guts to the bishop or religious advisor who was usually part of the ruler of the times entourage to find out what your subjects where up to. If you didnt tell you were guilty of the sin of passivity and destined to burn in the fires of hell along with the person guilty of whatever pissed the ruler off to begin with. Just knowing and not telling could get you thrown in the rulers dungeons. > > This is not to say I believe in passivity. I think people should take responsibility for there actions. I think there is a time when you need to step up and take charge and there is a time when you need to let people make there mistakes because its the only way they can grow. If its gonna kill them then of course stop them LOL > > What ever you believe though I am glad as well that this story inspired you to be more mindful and active in the world around you. Its all good. > > Just wanted to add since Josie and I were posting at the same time. I dont think anyone is sickened by your post. I think we were more worried you would be sickened by our response LOL. However even though are beliefs may be different we had a choice. Be passive and not respond with our beliefs or tell you what we believe. We chose to not be passive 😉 > > Tisha You’re kidding me right? How could I be sicked by those that I love. I don’t come here to preach or judge. I come here because I’m excited about a group of people that are taking action to make changes in their lives. This same group has sparked me to make changes in my own life. So I felt the desire to share the new knowledge that I have found. I don’t want to dispute who wrote the story of Genesis. I do think that we have to consciously let people fall on their faces sometimes. I have just had revelation that although I am very active and considered a leader in some business groups and in my work environment, I have been very passive in my social life and in my family. It’s really no different then the way we hold each other accountable here in this forum. When someone says they are waiting for a girl to approach we tell them to take action and to initiate the conversation. I believe if we are more active in all parts of our lives instead of letting life happen to us then we will have more impact. David Daeda touches on this same subject in 2 of the books that I have read from him. The light bulb just didn’t go off then. I guess that’s what frustrated me about the responses. I get frustrated when people reject an idea just because they disagree with the source. ---
**Author:** ![Blacky\_Chan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/blacky_chan/32/973_2.png) [@Blacky\_Chan](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Blacky_Chan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/9 "2011-02-01T20:01:17Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Well Y’all know where I stand on this LOL > > I do believe part of the story of Adam and Eve was about passivity. I just dont believe “god” wrote it. I believe those involved with the pre-birth of the Roman Catholic religion wrote it for a purpose. It was just another fable created to **control** the masses, to plant that little seed of **control**. They wanted people to believe passivity was sinful because then you would tell on your neighbor. What better way to **control** the masses ? What better way then to have your very subjects spilling there guts to the bishop or religious advisor who was usually part of the ruler of the times entourage to find out what your subjects where up to. If you didnt tell you were guilty of the sin of passivity and destined to burn in the fires of hell along with the person guilty of whatever pissed the ruler off to begin with. Just knowing and not telling could get you thrown in the rulers dungeons. > Tisha Couldn’t agree more its all about mind control. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/10 "2011-02-01T20:56:29Z")
> [@JosieW](#): > > You’re kidding me right? How could I be sicked by those that I love. I don’t come here to preach or judge. I come here because I’m excited about a group of people that are taking action to make changes in their lives. This same group has sparked me to make changes in my own life. So I felt the desire to share the new knowledge that I have found. > > I don’t want to dispute who wrote the story of Genesis. I do think that we have to consciously let people fall on their faces sometimes. I have just had revelation that although I am very active and considered a leader in some business groups and in my work environment, I have been very passive in my social life and in my family. It’s really no different then the way we hold each other accountable here in this forum. When someone says they are waiting for a girl to approach we tell them to take action and to initiate the conversation. I believe if we are more active in all parts of our lives instead of letting life happen to us then we will have more impact. > > David Daeda touches on this same subject in 2 of the books that I have read from him. The light bulb just didn’t go off then. I guess that’s what frustrated me about the responses. I get frustrated when people reject an idea just because they disagree with the source. I agree with yah. If it came from PUA stuff for some it would be control for others. If it came from witchcraft it would be control for others. After all the same could be said about ANYONE’S religious/spiritual beliefs. Its relative to the persons BELIEFS. The message was good and meant to inspire, regardless of where it came from. On that note Tisha, your assumption is incorrect, that it was a Roman Catholic belief. The story of Adam and Eve is from Genesis, the OLD testament. The Jewish scriptures, predating Jesus by many centuries. The times of Moses and Isaiah. The Jews weren’t trying to control anybody. They were in fact very much being controlled by the ancient Egyptians as slaves. You didn’t tell on your neighbor, because in doing so you would have them collectively killed. Its our rush to judgment on religion and the purpose it serves for many, many people. It brings faith and charity, hope and love. I am saddened to read so many people jump to conclusions on such a good inspiring message. No one was forcing anyone into control, except as I have read it, as those who ignored the message and attacked the source. :o ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/11 "2011-02-01T21:19:01Z")
> [@JosieW](#): > > Wow! not exactly the response I was expecting. I didn’t think you would get hung up on the religious aspect of the story. So let me put it another way, because I believe truth is truth no matter where it comes from. > > If I were to go on vacation somewhere and someone I knew to be an authority on the place told me hey don’t eat this type of fruit because you will die and then while I’m on vacation someone tells my wife that it’s ok to eat the fruit, then I would say something. I would tell my wife not to eat the fruit. I wouldn’t let her eat the fruit. > > What I’m talking about is sitting back and watching for things to happen instead confronting right and wrong. How is it Adam’s responsibility? It’s his wife. That’s how. Because he cares about her. If I saw a kid standing on the edge of a bridge ready to jump into a river, I’m not going to watch. I’m going to say “Hey you shouldn’t do that. It’s a bad idea.” If I see someone stealing or taking advantage of someone else, I’m going to say something. Should I not be responsible? Do I not have the ability respond? > > Yes everyone has the right to make their own destinity, but let me say this there are a lot of people in this world today that will turn their heads and ignore something that they have the ability to stop. Yet we do nothing. If you feel that my post sickened you or was perverted, or that it’s against what you believe, then so be it. > [@Steve](#): > > I agree with yah. If it came from PUA stuff for some it would be control for others. If it came from witchcraft it would be control for others. After all the same could be said about ANYONE’S religious/spiritual beliefs. Its relative to the persons BELIEFS. The message was good and meant to inspire, regardless of where it came from. > > On that note Tisha, your assumption is incorrect, that it was a Roman Catholic belief. The story of Adam and Eve is from Genesis, the OLD testament. The Jewish scriptures, predating Jesus by many centuries. The times of Moses and Isaiah. The Jews weren’t trying to control anybody. They were in fact very much being controlled by the ancient Egyptians as slaves. You didn’t tell on your neighbor, because in doing so you would have them collectively killed. > > Its our rush to judgment on religion and the purpose it serves for many, many people. It brings faith and charity, hope and love. I am saddened to read so many people jump to conclusions on such a good inspiring message. No one was forcing anyone into control, except as I have read it, as those who ignored the message and attacked the source. :o There are many many good things about religion, but there are also bad things about it. I was fortunate enough to have witnessed both sides of religion in the forms of what you said; peace, hope, love, and charity amoing others. But I’ve also witnessed it as how tisha and blacky chan did and elaborated on the source that it is used as a control method for the public. In certain areas of Roman Catholicism, and even Orthodox religion, the messages are skewed and taught in a way that emphasizes why you shouldn’t do wrong as opposed to emphasizing and teaching how you can care and love. Many Churches have different views on how to preach the overall message (I’m referring to the proper term Church) and that is where people’s experiences come from. However, to say that it is just a man’s responsibility to enforce God’s laws just because it has that men are superior than women mentality (back then) and therefore have more responsibilities goes against every possible teaching I’ve learned from the Church. Religion causes wars, genocide, and other atrocities in the world. However, you have people, great and genuine people who bring about change and a message of peace in this world that makes things better for everyone. You just have to know (I’m not saying you don’t know JW, or anyone for that matter) what you would use that message for. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/12 "2011-02-01T21:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > On that note Tisha, your assumption is incorrect, that it was a Roman Catholic belief. The story of Adam and Eve is from Genesis, the OLD testament. The Jewish scriptures, predating Jesus by many centuries. The times of Moses and Isaiah. The Jews weren’t trying to control anybody. They were in fact very much being controlled by the ancient Egyptians as slaves. You didn’t tell on your neighbor, because in doing so you would have them collectively killed. I know that but all structured religion was born of the Jewish scriptures in some ways and interpreted to reflect what each religion wants to convey or control. The Jewish people are very much into fables. Stories told to bring about a moral point. Fables were very much a part of all cultures then. They may not have been trying to control for the purpose of ruling but the story still was a form of putting ones beliefs and morals onto another. > [@](#): > > Its our rush to judgment on religion and the purpose it serves for many, many people. It brings faith and charity, hope and love. I am saddened to read so many people jump to conclusions on such a good inspiring message. No one was forcing anyone into control, except as I have read it, as those who ignored the message and attacked the source. :o Sorry you know I love ya but I didnt see anyone jump conclusions except you. I think you need to go back and read what we wrote again. No one is attacking anyone we are sharing our opinion on a subject that he brought up. I am saddened that you see it that way. Maybe if you read it with a happy face you will feel better (snort) Sorry couldnt help it. (inside joke) . 😃 Anywhoo I did post about my opinion on passivity. To say we didnt hear his message or ignored what he was trying to convey is untrue. On a side note Wicca is a religion Witchcraft is not. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/13 "2011-02-01T21:36:18Z")
Gotta admit though. I do like this discourse and we can all still get along and like each after it’s all said and done. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/14 "2011-02-01T23:24:21Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > Religion causes wars, genocide, and other atrocities in the world. However, you have people, great and genuine people who bring about change and a message of peace in this world that makes things better for everyone. You just have to know (I’m not saying you don’t know JW, or anyone for that matter) what you would use that message for. Religion causes nothing! Religion is an inanimate form of spiritual concepts, principles, beliefs, doctrines, dogma… MAN and man alone causes war, genocide and atrocities in the world. If more people subscribed to the basic must underlying principles of what religion professes to be about (love, peace, harmony, spiritual enlightenment) there would be less hatred, less killing. Anything can be colluded to instill hatred. There are thousands of examples of this throughout history. The _Catcher in the Rye_ is quite a profound example. It’s a book, nothing more, nothing less. I’ve read it, just like I read the bible. I read the Koran too. I’m not inspired to kill, no it inspires me to think and come to my own decisions. It goes right back to my exception to the statements that religion is used to control. In my reality it is used to inspire, to set free. Relative to the person. While I do not have the facts in front of me so I am ignorant to the actual numbers, but I would say so much more has come out of religion than hate. I would dare to say that hate is a very small percentage of how man interprets religion. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/15 "2011-02-01T23:34:26Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Religion causes nothing! Religion is an inanimate form of spiritual concepts, principles, beliefs, doctrines, dogma… MAN and man alone causes war, genocide and atrocities in the world. If more people subscribed to the basic must underlying principles of what religion professes to be about (love, peace, harmony, spiritual enlightenment) there would be less hatred, less killing. Anything can be colluded to instill hatred. There are thousands of examples of this throughout history. The _Catcher in the Rye_ is quite a profound example. It’s a book, nothing more, nothing less. I’ve read it, just like I read the bible. I read the Koran too. I’m not inspired to kill, no it inspires me to think and come to my own decisions. > > It goes right back to my exception to the statements that religion is used to control. In my reality it is used to inspire, to set free. Relative to the person. While I do not have the facts in front of me so I am ignorant to the actual numbers, but I would say so much more has come out of religion than hate. I would dare to say that hate is a very small percentage of how man interprets religion. I hope that it didn’t come out that I was bashing religion as the cause of that. But how many times have we heard things done in the name of God. The crusades for example. I should have phrased that differently and I get and agree what you’re saying. Religion is a system and I believe it differs from faith and spirituality. Religion was made by man, the structure, laws, and hierarchy are all man made. The ideas behind it are based on a belief of a higher being but structured so that there are still control of the few who decide which is right or which is wrong. Hence why I said religion causes that. I am by no means trying to argue with you, but rather clarifying that the institution is flawed, not the inherent message that was intended to be shared. Which leads us back to the post that JW said that this is how his Christian group explained it and why I disagreed on the method but not the message. ---
**Author:** ![RisenAlpha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@RisenAlpha](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RisenAlpha)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/16 "2011-02-04T21:50:39Z")
Ok so to recap the message so that it doesn’t get lost in this thread. Reject passivity. I wonder how many people read this thread and never replied. When you decide to not to do anything or say anything then you give up rights. You give up what little authority you have. Entire communities have been lost to crime because people were minding there own business. As far as Adam and Eve goes, my group at no point ever makes reference to women being inferior. In fact it teaches servant leadership. That’s something I’m trying to learn. The issue with the story of the Fall is Adam watched his wife do something that would either kill her or make her like God. He didn’t take the first bite and he didn’t say she shouldn’t do it. He stayed there and watched. Then when he didn’t see her die, he took a bite so that he could be like God too. When he was called on it, he blamed his wife. I personally have kept my mouth shut and watched my wife make a decision while saying to myself this is probably a bad decision. If it’s a bad decision I give her grief about it and say it’s her fault. If it’s a good decision I go along with it. I know I’m not the only one that does this. I’m willing to be transparent and talk about it in hopes that others that do this will learn from it. It’s wrong. David Daeda talks about this same issue in Intimate Communion. He talks about men who have masculine cores but won’t provide any direction. The gift of the masculine is to provide direction, yet many men wait for women who have feminine cores to provide direction. So they are forced to increase their masculinity to cover for their man’s lack. That’s what this post is about. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/17 "2011-02-05T02:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Ok so to recap the message so that it doesn’t get lost in this thread. Reject passivity. I wonder how many people read this thread and never replied. Good point, I am sure some people read it, had a opinion and chose to be passive because like I said your first references to religion (even though its not the point of the post) is a touchy subject. I chose to state my opinion on all of what your wrote fully aware that many people wouldn’t see it my way. That’s fine someone following their own belief doesn’t make someone passive > [@](#): > > I personally have kept my mouth shut and watched my wife make a decision while saying to myself this is probably a bad decision. If it’s a bad decision I give her grief about it and say it’s her fault. If it’s a good decision I go along with it. I know I’m not the only one that does this. I’m willing to be transparent and talk about it in hopes that others that do this will learn from it. It’s wrong. Is that passive though ? I agree that its wrong the way you describe it but even though your married some decisions are just not yours to make. In my relationship we both make decisions. Sometimes good ones sometimes bad ones. We never cast fault though. If he decided something I dont agree with I will tell him I dont but I also give him the free will to choose to go with that decision or not. If its works I am happy for him and if not I am supportive of him. If its something that affects both of us directly then we tend to compromise more or weigh whatever it is together and come to a conclusion. I dont think of marriage as being either passive or aggressive. Its falls right in the middle, its love and acceptance. Your taking a journey together but at the same time your taking your own journey through life. Your two journeys intertwine. If you no longer let the other take there own personal journey they lose there purpose. Once in a while I will be lazy and just be passive but only because I trust him, I am sure he does the same. If it ends up not working out its just as much my fault as his. Its **sort of** like that poem I think its a Christian one. I could be wrong. Here it is had to look it up 😃 … > [@](#): > > \*\ ***One night a man had a dream. He dreamed He was walking along the beach with the LORD. Across the sky flashed scenes from His life. For each scene He noticed two sets of footprints in the sand. One belonging to Him and the other to the LORD.** > > **When the last scene of His life flashed before Him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of His life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times of His life.** > > **This really bothered Him and He questioned the LORD about it. LORD you said that once I decided to follow you, you’d walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life there is only one set of footprints. I don’t understand why when I needed you most you would leave me.** > > **The LORD replied, my precious, precious child, I Love you and I would never leave you! During your times of trial and suffering when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you.** \*\* The “lord” didnt stop them from having low times, suffering or making bad decisions. He may have gave signs that it was not a wise way to go and urged them to follow him but He carried them when they fell without the person even knowing it because he didnt cast blame. It was not the lords journey to take. I wouldn’t say the lord in this story was passive nor the person who asked. Marriage and relationships are like that. Being a alpha male has a lot to do with being a leader and giving direction but an alpha doesn’t make you follow him You still have free will and he grants that to you and when you fall on your face he is standing there smiling pulling you back up on your feet. He may be thinking in his head “lunkhead” but he still will let you fall because he knows failure is the only way to success. You have to learn failure to experience success. Its the law of polarity. Back to the story of Adam and Eve. As I stated in my first post it is partly about passivity but its also about not following your own path and the shame of not taking responsibility for what you do. I think the greater sin of the two was casting blame not standing by and passively letting her take her own path. > [@](#): > > _“It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”_ Comparable to Adam. She was made from his rib He gave Adam free will therefore he gave it to Eve as well. He made her aware to not eat the fruit but he had to let her take her own path just as he took his own when he ate that fruit himself. So I agree with you and the moral of the story even though I dont believe in the story. 😉 Tisha ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/18 "2011-02-06T00:03:05Z")
So I’m guessing none of us are guilty of being passive then 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maidenfan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Maidenfan01](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Maidenfan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/19 "2011-02-07T03:49:56Z")
Hell, I am guilty of being passive. Ignoring all this religion scawble, the point Josie is trying to make is a great one, and something I am personally going to make a point of changing. ---
**Author:** ![RisenAlpha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@RisenAlpha](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RisenAlpha)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005/20 "2011-02-07T13:30:53Z")
> [@P51Mustang](#): > > So I’m guessing none of us are guilty of being passive then 😃 No, I have a hard time believing that you, Tisha, or Steve have ever been passive. 🙂 And for the record I don’t believe any of us can or should try to control another person. I just think we should make efforts to at least advise people when we see then headed for ruin. If they continue on their own path then that’s up to them. Oh and P51 if I were on the front line and some one was walking towards my position or within the range I’m covering they would be shot dead. I’m a Marine remember? 🙂 Have you ever seen Saving Private Ryan? [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/reject-passivity/46005.md?page=2)