# Replacing AndrosteNone with regard to Attraction, Phase Shifting, and Lust Enhancing **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [January 27, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664 "2008-01-27T03:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/1 "2008-01-27T03:35:15Z")
**[Androstenone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) can be used as an attractant:** **Swinger MD: “…When I'm out and about hunting/wandering around I've found it is the best to use a heavy -none product. The -none product seems to get the attention focused on you (especially with complete strangers)…”** **Jasmin (when talking about the ‘Attraction’ phase in pickup): "…The _small amount of [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) will let 'em know you’re not just a friend…"_ Jasmin (when asking about how people were using ‘TUTH’): "…However, I’ve also seen that a lot of people try to use [TUTH] as an attractant itself. Something meant to catch the eye of a willing doe eyed vixen. Guys in the pickup community might say this using Turn Up The Heat ([Turn Up the Heat – Sensual Pheromone Spray Cologne for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/))** as an “opener”, especially those who use “direct game” (like our own Rob does). Blatant, raw, “I’m the alpha male sex god” energy. This isn’t common today. The bulk of PUAs today use fun energy and comfort to open…"\*\* **[Androstenone](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) can be used for closing/escalation/phase shifting:** **SwingerMD: “…When you're ready for that next level, you then hit them with that -none product…”** **Jasmin (when talking about the ‘Seduction’ phase): "…The** [(`http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/pheros-ever-got-you-laid-3792-2.html#post43561`) tacitus (May 6, 2007): “Eyup… most of my sexmix combos have a strong base of Androsterone… Androsterone has made for some freaking mind warpingly good sex… Alpha Androstenol has also been a fine constant, where beta-Androstenol can make things too “heady”… **I like a pinch of None, but not too much, you need just enought to stomp on the gas,** -Androstadienone has proven its worth too, Mystery Method ([http://affiliates.mysterymethod.com/z/28/CD84/](http://affiliates.mysterymethod.com/z/28/CD84/)) or [Neil Strauss](http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738)’ Game? We were thinking something like this: [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/)) or [Liquid Sunshine](https://pheromonelabs.com/) + [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) + \*\*small amount of [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) \*\* The [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) or one of the [Liquid Sunshine](https://pheromonelabs.com/) mixes would make people chatty, make 'em feel good The Shine will make them feel even better. Increase the energy, and make you seem like one of those people everyone likes to be around. An optimistic, bright breath of fresh air. \*\* The _small amount of [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) will let 'em know you’re not just a friend._ Instant Openness ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/)) + a small amount of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/), an even tinier amount of [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/), maybe a little [A314](https://a314.com/product/a314-classic/) or something based on [MX102](https://pheromonelabs.com/) through [MX105](https://pheromonelabs.com/). Optional [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) The Shine would keep it buzzy, non-boring. The small amount of [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) would help prevent friendism [A314](https://a314.com/product/a314-classic/) would add comfort, and position you as a classical man ( DHV ). I think the key would be using not too much. Maybe even _less than_ 1 drop or 1 spray of [MX102](https://pheromonelabs.com/) is ideal. Our own Thomas Lavoie does something like this. [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) would make her feel like she’s known you forever. A true comfort accelerator (but maybe too comfortable in high amounts?). (I’ve gotten a lot of feedback saying that [A314](https://a314.com/product/a314-classic/) and Honesty are actually killer for mystery’s C3) Turn Up The Heat ([Turn Up the Heat – Sensual Pheromone Spray Cologne for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/)) + [TAL](https://pheromonelabs.com/) + [P79](https://pheromonelabs.com/). Optional: A little Shine and/or [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) \*\* The [Turn Up The Heat](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) would add the sexual spark\*\* The [P79](https://pheromonelabs.com/) would make 'em wanna do something about it, and reduce [LMR](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-for-pickup-attraction-comfort-seduction/832) The [TAL](https://pheromonelabs.com/) would make women aggressive and direct (chime in here, Taoist Biker and others!) and also reduce [LMR](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pheromones-for-pickup-attraction-comfort-seduction/832). What do you guys think?”EST ([https://phera.com/](https://phera.com/)) will really deepen the communication aspects, [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) is excellent in this direction as well, while [P79](https://pheromonelabs.com/),P83,P90,P93 all add some deep bodymind animal notes, a smidge of [TAH](https://pheromonelabs.com/) will bring out the colors, so to speak, and [P86](https://pheromonelabs.com/) has been one of the great sleeper surprises, it is more of an integrator, although there is a real [P86](https://pheromonelabs.com/) quality boost of “it all comes together at the right moment”… [P80](https://pheromonelabs.com/) WILL put a heavy umph behind the whole deal, but use VERY sparingly, or they will feel like they are mating with a Cape Buffalo…” ([Turn Up the Heat – Sensual Pheromone Spray Cologne for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/)) ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/2 "2008-01-27T04:01:19Z")
Because of all the hassles it can cause, people have talked about replacing AndrosteNone with something else for a long time (I can definitely see why 😉 ). Just recently there has been mention that P83 could be some kind of replacement for AndrosteNone with less hassles (see [P83, a compilation: including 'sexual/erotic' effects](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-a-compilation-including-sexual-erotic-effects/5789) for some earlier posts on the matter). Previously there was mention that P79 might be similar to AndrosteNone in some ways as well. P93 was another one that might have given off a ‘slightly sexual vibe’ for some: see toilofday’s posts in [P93's 'uplifting' effects on women](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p93s-uplifting-effects-on-women/4865) for example. Then there is TAF which might have certain erotic properties of its own (see [TAF's 'erotic' properties: collected member quotes and a TUTH, TAF, P96 date mix](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/erotic-properties-of-taf/4640)). A314, probably the main other ‘Alpha male vibe’ alternative to AndrosteNone, as well as other high AndrosteRone products have been talked about as well for giving a masculine alternative to Androstenone: see [Evolutionary psychology: -Rone men and -None Men](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/evolutionary-psychology-rone-men-and-none-men/19) for a comparison between these two ‘primary’ masculine [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) and what they represent. TAL and products that contain high levels of this molecule within them have been talked about as making women more ‘direct’ which could be of use in replacing some of the effects of AndrosteNone with regard to ‘closing/escalation/phase shifting’. With regard to ‘passion/lust enhancing’ and even adding a sexual spark when ‘phase shifting’, a number of essential oils could help in this regard with the one that I am most interested in being the high-Cinnamon Twilight Alchemy Labs’ product, ‘Caliph’s Beloved’: see [Twilight Alchemy Lab's 'Caliph's Beloved'](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/twilight-alchemy-labs-caliphs-beloved/4510) Then there is P75 and P76 which have been talked about as being similar to AndrosteNone as well but have turned out to be not particularly powerful in every day situations (though they may turn out to be great for ‘lust/passion’ enhancing): see [P75 ... Oi!!! - #26 by Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p75-oi/328/26) and [Putatives 75-77](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/putatives-75-77/5604). **What are other people’s thoughts on what alternatives there are with regard to the three main things that AndrosteNone is best at doing?** ---
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/3 "2008-01-27T05:14:41Z")
P83 seems to be a very effective [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/) in the comfort/seduction phases. It’s especially effective the more kino (touching) there is. Usually in the “opening/attraction” phase, there isn’t as much touching, so it’s not as effective (unless you’re at a dance club and/or around a lot of drunk people). P83 is sort of a passive -none. I don’t mean it makes you appear passive, but I mean it doesn’t attract the attention that -none does (at least in my experience). -None will cause arousal in many women out of thin air(but it’s your job to convince her that you’re the cause of it), hence it is “active.” P83 will not, hence it’s “passivity”, but it will enhance these feelings if there’s even a sliver of them there, often to a level greater than that of -none. And it’s effects are multiplied if there’s touching involved. ---
**Author:** ![gitsmw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@gitsmw](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/gitsmw)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/4 "2008-01-27T06:09:59Z")
Touching makes everything better ;D ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 7:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/5 "2008-01-27T07:56:27Z")
> [@TRDE59](#): > > P83 seems to be a very effective pheromone in the comfort/seduction phases. It’s especially effective the more kino (touching) there is. Usually in the “opening/attraction” phase, there isn’t as much touching, so it’s not as effective (unless you’re at a dance club and/or around a lot of drunk people). > > P83 is sort of a passive -none. I don’t mean it makes you appear passive, but I mean it doesn’t attract the attention that -none does (at least in my experience). -None will cause arousal in many women out of thin air(but it’s your job to convince her that you’re the cause of it), hence it is “active.” P83 will not, hence it’s “passivity”, but it will enhance these feelings if there’s even a sliver of them there, often to a level greater than that of -none. > > And it’s effects are multiplied if there’s touching involved. Very insightful comparison of how AndrosteNone and P83 may work on women TRDE! I do think P83 is a must if we are to virtually eliminate AndrosteNone from ‘pickup’ mixes. But while I think that P83 is a great pheromone, it doesn’t really seem to fit anywhere in MHarris’ evolutionary psychology theory: seehttps://pheromonetalk.com/t/evolutionary-psychology-rone-men-and-none-men/19. What do others think? I am thinking if we were to replace AndrosteNone we would have to include a high AndrosteRone product like [Instant Gentleman](https://a314.com/product/gentleman/) or A314 in there (along with the useful P83 ). Here are some posts on what AndrosteRone could do… It actually seems to make some women quite aroused in a more ‘loving’ and less ‘lusty’ kind of way than AndrosteNone (see posts by Sexyredhead, Lor, Tisha, and m3turbo). Surfs Up and DrSmellThis both mentioned that it might be an intensifier, a ‘confirming messenger’. Also there is some kind of antidepressant, energised, dreamy ‘buzz’ mentioned that AndrosteRone seems to bring along with it (mentioned by Sexyredhead, Dolly, Elana, Lor, and Sagacious1420). Of course AndrosteRone is all about the non-threatening alpha male presence (or the ‘Peaceful Alpha’ as Gegogi calls the effect) and this helps with feelings of trust, adoration, and leadership (there is a different balance of these effects of course between different high-AndrosteRone mixes like A314 and Instant Gentleman for example). Finally, what makes AndrosteRone one of the two primary masculine pheromones is its place in evolutionary psychology as the representative of the man who is wise, competent, long lived, nurturing, and the money-making fatherly type… `http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...ad.php?p=86236&` Sexyredhead (August 20, 2003): "Female perspective here. I LOVE -Androsterone. Scent of Eros gets me hot faster than any of the products I’ve tried. -None does nothing for me, and -Androstenol just makes me really friendly. Scent of Eros, with - Androstenol and -Androsterone, makes me horny AND very friendly. So I guess you could call that a result using straight -Androsterone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif " Sexyredhead (August 22, 2003): “…Scent of Eros can keep me happy and horny all day. It’s different from the -Androstenol reaction I have, because I often wear PIw or lavender SPMO by themselves. So the -Androsterone’s effect isn’t just immediate–it’s long-lasting. That’s not just an adrenal reaction, or I’d end up tired and b!tchy after wearing it for a while.” `http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=107340&` Elana (February 17, 2004): “but I do know this…it [CS -Androsterone] gave me a buzz… I was wired. I had to have Franki and SRH talk me down… SRH and I haven’t figured out if the attention from the men is because of how great it makes us feel, or if it effects them too. It just makes us feel fantastic.” Dolly (February 17, 2004): “…As for the -Androsterone] buzz, to me, it feel like you would if you went out for lunch and had a light margarita with your meal. Not drunk, but just “feeling it” a little…” Sexyredhead (February 18, 2004) "…But [the reaction to -Androsterone is] not relaxing–it’s a rush! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif " dolly (February 18, 2004): "…Today was different from just wearing Primal Instinct For Women. The Androstenol did make a few of my co-workers friendlier (in general)when I wore it alone, but the -Androsterone seemed to intensify it all. And, I had the little buzz going, too. Bonus for me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif … In a 10 ml roll-on bottle, I had about 2.5 ml of Primal Instinct For Women, almost 1 ml of CS-Androsterone (I didn’t have enough room in my bottle for more), and the rest was a musk cologne. Really nice!! I liked it very much!! A keeper!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I put some on my wrists, and all the way around my neck (behind the ears too). " > [@yummmy androsteRONE subway trip](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/yummmy-androsterone-subway-trip/3361/4): > > 'rone is my all-time favorite. i used to wear SoE for men for that reason, its so dreamy. i sense it in [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/), A314, and i have it on order in instant gentleman on my wishlist. it always lifts my mood, id take it over food. slight_smile Lor (April 27, 2007): ?€œ’Androsterone is my all-time favorite. i used to wear Scent of Eros for men for that reason, its so dreamy. i sense it in Ammo, A314, and i have it on order in instant gentleman on my wishlist. it always lifts my mood, id take it over food. ?€ > [@AndrosteNone vs AndrosteRone for females.](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/androstenone-vs-androsterone-for-females/5302/4): > > i post about this very topic alot. i cannot state enough that if you use 'none, the smallest amount kicks ass and takes names. and numbers, wink im personally at a point where its not attractive to me at all. im caucasian,so they tell me. 36. even little amounts piss me off, but with added 'rone im just okay with it. i tolerate it. the smallest amount over the little bit you use, sends some of chicks packing. they get irrate, snippy. 'rone on the other hand, i cannot say enough about. … Lor (August 29, 2007): ?€œi post about this very topic alot. i cannot state enough that if you use 'none, the smallest amount kicks ass and takes names. and numbers, im personally at a point where its not attractive to me at all. im caucasian,so they tell me. 36. even little amounts piss me off, but with added 'Androsterone im just okay with it. i tolerate it. the smallest amount over the little bit you use, sends some of chicks packing. they get irrate, snippy. 'Androsterone on the other hand, i cannot say enough about. its dreamy. its anti-depressant. unfortunately or fortunately its more of an in-love im crushing feeling, less of a i want to do you and leave you feeling. i think its the pheromone you want to use when you hope they want to hang around more often. im definately more likely to have sex smelling this stuff. it makes me want to make you happy. i havent experienced using too much of it (or just sniffing it ) my opinion is that the balance of the two will play a significant part in how you are percieved and that will weed out the unwanted. stronger 'none than 'Androsterone will attract more of a sexual lets just get it done vibe. more 'Androsterone than 'none will be more of a i cant get him out of my head vibe. maybe you will require two different mixes now? ?€ > [@YO guys isn\`t androsteRone better in a mix than androsteNone?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/yo-guys-isn-t-androsterone-better-in-a-mix-than-androstenone/5303/6): > > depends entirely on the age and some say race of the gal. 'none doesnt get me off in the slightest; but 'rone has me zero to sex in 30 seconds. i have heard in some places that asian women respond negatively to 'none (or higher amounts) and i have heard younger women have issues with 'none used to much/ in high amounts. maybe the combination of traits you are looking for arent meshing with the balance of 'rone to 'none instead of 'rone by itself. both are always present because of your own s… Lor (August 29, 2007): ?€œ?€?depends entirely on the age and some say race of the gal. 'none doesnt get me off in the slightest; but 'Androsterone has me zero to sex in 30 seconds. i have heard in some places that asian women respond negatively to 'none (or higher amounts) and i have heard younger women have issues with 'none used to much/ in high amounts. maybe the combination of traits you are looking for arent meshing with the balance of 'Androsterone to 'none instead of 'Androsterone by itself. both are always present because of your own signiture always being present.?€ > [@AndrosteNone vs AndrosteRone for females.](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/androstenone-vs-androsterone-for-females/5302/10): > > there are so many posts in the archives about age-related preferences. also race related as well. everyone keeps mentioning 'rone being desired for stability and 'none for plain sex, and intellectually it makes sense, but i think its less cycle related and more personality related. i dont think i have ever been attracted to the high-'none profile, and i know many who werent either. i also thing gegogi is different all together; he’s in an atmosphere where he is an authority. that has to coun… Lor (August 30, 2007): ?€œthere are so many posts in the archives about age-related preferences. also race related as well. everyone keeps mentioning 'Androsterone being desired for stability and 'none for plain sex, and intellectually it makes sense, but i think its less cycle related and more personality related. i dont think i have ever been attracted to the high-'none profile, and i know many who werent either?€??€ > [@AndrosteNone vs AndrosteRone for females.](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/androstenone-vs-androsterone-for-females/5302/20): > > 1.and 2. I have only been exposed to A314 and [Instant Gentleman](https://a314.com/product/gentleman/). I am not sure how much Androsterone is in them so I cant give anwsers on Androsterone alone or the exact amount. My girlfriend bought some bottles for her husband for his job. She also gave some to the guy who uses pheromones at our work to try out and some to me for my hubby. She said her hub is getting good responses at 3 to 4 drops of A314. Guy at work is very alpha and hasnt noticed anything yet but I know when he is wearing… tisha23 (September 2, 2007): ?€œ?€?The feeling [of A314] is not overwhelming. It will not make me do anything that I know is not right for me. Its a feeling of willingness brought on by a sort of safe secure feeling. Kind of like trust or like feeling comfortable in letting the other person lead. On a sexual side its more slow safe and deep,( behave you know what I mean ) It feels like all night instead of wham bam. Now I felt this feeling mostly with husband wearing it. Around my friends husband I wasnt aroused at all. I am not attracted to my friends husband so that could be why. The guy at work is my BMF and it was a little arousing on him but not enough to make me forget I am married. So on a scale of 1 to 10 for “how strong are the feelings” with 10 being a total slut LOL (only kidding) I would say its a 3 or 4 Instant Gentleman is nice, its just gives the feeling of nice LOL. Its hard to explain. Its easy going, laid back more trusting then leading, reliable . Slightly sexual if the person is attracted to those quailties?€??€ `http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...php?p=117500&h` surfs up aka Tacitus (April 20, 2004): “…I've had years of experience with androsterone. It tends to behave like a "confirming" messenger. It solidifies and consolidates the effects of the primary message…” `http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=161561&` DrSmellThis (May 14, 2005): "…Androsterone has historically been great to enhance other things, but not as the primary focus – this goes way back to the earlier forum days, when too much -Androsterone was often talked about as ruining a mix. Later, especially after Regina Maiworm’s groundbreaking -Androsterone studies, its reputation became one of creating a multidimensional positive impression, enhancing (non-threatening – like with fathers or brothers) masculinity and alphaness, but lessening sexual reactions…" `http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...one#post162792` Sagacious1420 (May 26, 2005): “…Androsterone really gets their [women’s] motor running, but also zaps them of energy after prolonged exposure…” `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/pheros-ever-got-you-laid-3792-2.html#post43561` tacitus (May 6, 2007): ?€œEyup… most of my sexmix combos have a strong base of Androsterone… Androsterone has made for some freaking mind warpingly good sex… Alpha Androstenol has also been a fine constant, where beta- Androstenol can make things too “heady”… I like a pinch of None, but not too much, you need just enought to stomp on the gas, -Androstadienone has proven its worth too, EST will really deepen the communication aspects, P74 is excellent in this direction as well, while P79, P83 , P90 , P93 all add some deep bodymind animal notes, a smidge of TAH will bring out the colors, so to speak, and P86 has been one of the great sleeper surprises, it is more of an integrator, although there is a real P86 quality boost of “it all comes together at the right moment”… P80 WILL put a heavy umph behind the whole deal, but use VERY sparingly, or they will feel like they are mating with a Cape Buffalo…?€ Unexpected reaction from my wife (A314 car situation) m3turbo (July 5, 2007): "I have found that if you hit a woman with a strong whiff of androsterone during the right spot in her cycle you can drive her crazy . I always use large doses of Androsterone as the foundation to all miy mixes. Good Post!" ---
**Author:** ![Scaro](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scaro/32/2439_2.png) [@Scaro](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Scaro)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/6 "2008-01-27T14:31:41Z")
I don’t know why there isn’t any talk about finding a good p83 / -none ratio. MHarris referred to the Androsterone/none ratio he developed as his secret golden ratio that was the heart of A314 - one which he wasn’t about to reveal. 😛 I’ve been trying to buy p83 for a while now and everytime it is sold out or I would have already begun testing p83/none ratios. It seems to me that from all the descriptions it would be a winner. Perhaps 3 or 4 parts p83 to 1 part none? You’d have to play around with it, but from all the descriptions of p83 being a passive pheromone enhancing what is there, I figure a small part none (VERY active pheromone) might work rather synergisticly. I don’t think there’s ever going to be a good none replacement, but maybe with something like p83/none you would be able to keep the amount of -none relatively low. Has anyone done any experiments like this? ---
**Author:** ![codemax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/codemax/32/5173_2.png) [@codemax](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/codemax)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/7 "2008-01-27T21:04:07Z")
i think that even as a new person to pheromones with just a little bit of experience with the basic products, i would like to try a mixture of -none and -none alternatives. one spray containing each at it’s own individual optimal levels? a direct approach is a lot of fun and it’s simple: fewer things to do and so fewer ways to do something wrong. sounds like combining the ultimate phero from the diff approaches would turn you into superman. i wanna be superman. as opposed to a fully balanced mixture like ammo. ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/8 "2008-01-27T21:28:45Z")
Thanks a ton for this thread, Visionary! I think [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) would be the best choice for a -none replacement that we have today. Alternatively a good -rone product might be even more beneficial - as Tisha & Lor have written, they react often much more favourably to -rone than to -none. @Scaro: Do not forget that everyone produces his own -none through his natural phero signature - so there might be enough already for P83 to play on and enhance. I guess it’s time to get a higher concentrated P83 - mine is 2.5 mcg/spray only… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/9 "2008-01-28T02:58:34Z")
Yes Bob thank you man for making the thread raising the issue of an Ammo version without AndrosteNone . Comradmax I do think there should be some kind of ‘attractant-type’ combination product with virtually no AndrosteNone for newbies to try on top of what is already available. There are just so many hassles associated with AndrosteNone that I do believe people should be trying to look for alternatives. Quote: Originally Posted by Scaro I don’t know why there isn’t any talk about finding a good p83 / -none ratio. MHarris referred to the Androsterone/none ratio he developed as his secret golden ratio that was the heart of A314 - one which he wasn’t about to reveal. Quote: Originally Posted by Scaro I’ve been trying to buy p83 for a while now and everytime it is sold out or I would have already begun testing p83/none ratios. It seems to me that from all the descriptions it would be a winner. Perhaps 3 or 4 parts p83 to 1 part none? You’d have to play around with it, but from all the descriptions of p83 being a passive pheromone enhancing what is there, I figure a small part none (VERY active pheromone) might work rather synergisticly. I don’t think there’s ever going to be a good none replacement, but maybe with something like p83/none you would be able to keep the amount of -none relatively low. Has anyone done any experiments like this? That?€™s a very interesting idea Scaro! I personally would like to see what a ratio of 30:1 or 15:1 P83:AndrosteNone would do. The only problems I foresee are: - P83, at least in high doses (50 mcg+), seems to promote aggression (see pasted posts below). Given that AndrosteNone is well known for promoting that kind of behaviour as well, combining the two in sizeable amounts might just be too much for socialising. I would think 30 mcg of P83 to 1 or 2 mcg of AndrosteNone in a slow diffusing oil base could be the best way to balance these negative effects to the positive sexual tension inducing effects of the two molecules. - You talk about MHarris?€™ magic AndrosteRone to AndrosteNone ratio in A314 . Well like I said before AndrosteRone seems to represent in evolutionary psychology the man who is wise, competent, long lived, nurturing, and the money-making fatherly type. So it would make sense that this ?€˜non-threatening masculine presence / peaceful Alpha vibe?€™ would, in high doses ?€˜tame?€™ AndrosteNone. However P83 does not really represent anything in evolutionary psychology that we know of rather it seems to just unleash whatever urges a person has or simply make them feel upbeat or activated in the moment. I am not sure it will be able to ?€˜tame?€™ AndrosteNone like AndrosteRone does in A314. On the other hand, I managed to find some posts by May suggesting that P83 may represent a quite and secure, sexy, grown-up, Alpha Male vibe (see pasted posts below). - there is the problem of diffusion and clinging on to skin. I will have to dig some posts up but P83 lasts a far shorter time than AndrosteNone does on the skin. From memory, some people said that most of their effects from P83 were gone within the first hour after application so that would mean it would have to be constantly replenished which might raise some buildup/OD issues given how aggressive each of these two molecules can be. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/10 "2008-01-28T03:01:57Z")
The aggressive / agitation side of P83 is pasted in below… P83… a nice little empathogen Carrie (19 November 2006): "…I do believe W was acted on by the P83. He is very permeable to environmental influence, sensitive and psychic, and he responds quite a bit to my vibe, whether it’s pheromonally amped or not. I think that he does have a naturally aggressive personality but it’s been damped down by circumstances and typically has only come out under pressure. For example, he was bullied as a kid, but morphed into a monster on the football field - all that adolescent rage found the perfect outlet! On P83 testing night, he behaved dominantly and aggressively (not usual for him, except behind the wheel). His dancing was bold and sensual, which set him apart. The confidence he displayed garnered him more attention and respect than he gets when he’s his usual Minnesota-nice self. He seemed to get into a zone similar to where he goes when he’s onstage performing … on second thought, maybe he was auditioning for K! P83 feels none-like to me; at least it makes me/us more dominant, edgy, impatient, uninhibited. I didn’t feel sexually aroused by wearing it alone (though I have before when wearing it with cops). W didn’t seem to be aroused by it either, though his morning-after erection was even more impressive than usual - no time to play, unfortunately!" > [@King of the world mix: how MX147 kept a heavily sexual mix social and open](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/king-of-the-world-mix/1454/4): > > oh no it was of an “oOoh I love it”. people tend to communicate in fewer words when they’re drunk lol. As far as the putatives go, I’ve gotten a fairly good handle on P79, but I’m trying to learn how to use P83. I seem to OD with P83 at anything above 25mcg, and it causes me to feel pretty aggitated…it fades within about an hour, so I’m thinking its a pretty fast diffusing pheromone. There’s defiantely an aggressiveness to P83…it isn’t really none-like, but high dose none+ high dose P83 defina… Sigma (January 22, 2007): ?€œ?€?There’s defiantely an aggressiveness to P83…it isn’t really none-like, but high dose none+ high dose P83 definately doesn’t work out?€??€ > [@P83 - Mind Bending Sex](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-mind-bending-sex/3686/10): > > P83 has a strong none-like aggressive side to it. It created a lot of intimidation and agitation when I used it socially…however I may have to re-evaluate its use in a sex mix! I can see why it work well as a strictly sexual [pheromone](https://a314.com/). I’m going to have to play with 83 some more now! Sigma (May 16, 2007): ?€œP83 has a strong none-like aggressive side to it. It created a lot of intimidation and agitation when I used it socially…?€ > [@P83 - Mind Bending Sex](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-mind-bending-sex/3686/53): > > Its a tricky pheromone to use, and wouldn’t really recommend it outside of sexual mixes. Very aggressive in a none like kinda way. It can have some nasty effects if used in the wrong setting. Really wouldn’t call P83 a mind bender…more of an aggressor. Sigma (May 25, 2007): ?€œ?€?Its a tricky pheromone to use, and wouldn’t really recommend it outside of sexual mixes. Very aggressive in a none like kinda way. It can have some nasty effects if used in the wrong setting. Really wouldn’t call P83 a mind bender…more of an aggressor.?€ > [@P83 - Mind Bending Sex](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-mind-bending-sex/3686/55): > > The aggression could be reduced, but it would likely work to diminish the effect that you want from P83. With P83, you want the aggression, even knowing that it comes with some strongly anti-social, anti-comfort type of effects. The benefit of P83 really seems to come from the lack of comfot …the tension, it creates. P83 to me seems to capture the highly ‘raw aggression’ of androstenone…the part that creates a lot of sexual intensity. That sense of aggression/agitation is also what we seem … Sigma (May 25, 2007): ?€œ?€?The aggression could be reduced, but it would likely work to diminish the effect that you want from P83. With P83, you want the aggression, even knowing that it comes with some strongly anti-social, anti-comfort type of effects. The benefit of P83 really seems to come from the lack of comfot …the tension, it creates. P83 to me seems to capture the highly ‘raw aggression’ of androstenone…the part that creates a lot of sexual intensity. That sense of aggression/agitation is also what we seem to try to buffer out when we useandrostenone with [social pheromones](https://a314.com/product-category/social-pheromones/). P83 seems to take the aggressive notes of androstenone further when the two are combined. Creates a whole lot of sexual tension that can really flip switches with women in the right context (based on my experience with that mix last night anyway). I don’t see this mix working too well in most social interactions, however. I experimented with P83 quite a bit when I first got it, concluding that it should stay out of most of my mixes. When the time and place is right though, it can work wonders.?€ > [@P83 - Mind Bending Sex](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-mind-bending-sex/3686/61): > > Used socially, [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) seems to create a good amount of agitation…similar to none, but a bit different. To me P83 negative effects feel a lot like the agitation create by chikara. It has an aggressive edge to it, and a sexual energy thats a lot like androstenone. The synergy between androstenone and P83 is excessive for most social situations, but used in straight sex mixes, the two work very well together. Without going into too much detail, I had a very rare instance of the lady sniffing my n… Sigma (May 28, 2007): ?€œ?€?Used socially, P83 seems to create a good amount of agitation…similar to none, but a bit different. To me P83 negative effects feel a lot like the agitation create by chikara. It has an aggressive edge to it, and a sexual energy thats a lot like androstenone. The synergy between androstenone and P83 is excessive for most social situations, but used in straight sex mixes, the two work very well together. Without going into too much detail, I had a very rare instance of the lady sniffing my neck (where I had applied Turn Up The Heat + P83, TAA + Androstadienone + P79), and within minutes she and I were going at it again. Good stuff.?€ > [@P83 - Mind Bending Sex](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-mind-bending-sex/3686/41): > > I went to a second hand/thrift store today to look for eBay stuff that I can sell and also to test my [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/). The store is run by a church so the people that work there of really religious. There were no advert hits, or anything noticeable there. There was this one BIG lady, about 400 lbs wearing a stained wife beater and shorts way to small who was walking in the isle toward the exit who decided it would be good to just stop. Thank heavens I was paying close attention trying to gather information… SteveO (May 18, 2007): ?€œ?€?P83 has a strange aggressive effect on other males. I tried unsuccessfully to talk to a guy about his laptop. He was standoffish and did not want to be bothered by me. I initiated several times and although he was a pretty big fella, he looked intimidated…?€ > [@My latest results of P83, disturbia, dementia, erotica!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-latest-results-of-p83-disturbia-dementia-erotica/5792/15): > > OK so after a very long extended day at the hospital with my dad and my mom I needed a break. I decided I would leave out of there and go have some coffee for my Saturday night. Yeah I know how lame it is to be at BuckyStars drinking coffee instead of being out sarging on a Saturday night. Heck I would take sitting drinking coffee with all the other Saturday night rejects than sitting in the freaking hospital. Call it social addiction or withdrawals but I need to go out and sarge or I get sicke… SteveO (October 1, 2007): ?€œ?€?Then managers daughter employee came out and asked for help with garbage can. Big country, another friend who had joined us was pulling the bag while Navy was pulling the can. I yelled smack it, smack it harder and managers daughter employee hit me in the shoulder. I was kind of shocked at this as I gave her no reason too. She said she was sorry but I had offended her with my sexual remark! I asked her what specifically she had taken from smack it (subsequently was totally said about the garbage can being stuck) did she take as sexual and even more so about her? Side-note: She is not someone I find even remotely attractive. From what I understand from Pink and Sparkly she is super prudish. Pink and sparkly had come outside for ten minute break and asked managers daughter employee why she hit me. Both my friends who were wrangling the garbage can were surprised too. Everyone agreed that my comments were about the garbage can and had absolutely nothing to do with her. She tried, all to no avail, to continue to blame it on my sexual innuendo directed at her. In fact she wasn’t around for my conversation with any of the other girls. I may be a PUA , but as such I am discreet when I am talking to women. P83 has some very sexually aggressive undertones that can be mistaken by some. Especially those that you are not interested in still have the tendency, even when no suggestions to substantiate their claims, to validate your sexual desire for them. This can be a negative aspect of the molecule. I will continue to try and buffer this with some other molecules. Feedback is appreciated.?€ > [@My latest results of P83, disturbia, dementia, erotica!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-latest-results-of-p83-disturbia-dementia-erotica/5792/19): > > I answered your questions in the quotes above in green. Thanks for the rep. As far as the agitation side I have noticed apprehension in some instances, but not outright aggression. However, that being said, the managers daughter employee did strike me. I’m not sure if that can be taken in the context of aggression from the [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/), or another theory I have been going over is maybe because I wasn’t paying her any attention she became upset. It really has me thinking about it and why she was so angr… SteveO (October 2, 2007): ?€œ?€?As far as the agitation side I have noticed apprehension in some instances, but not outright aggression. However, that being said, the managers daughter employee did strike me. I’m not sure if that can be taken in the context of aggression from the P83, or another theory I have been going over is maybe because I wasn’t paying her any attention she became upset. It really has me thinking about it and why she was so angry over something that didn’t occur?€??€ > [@P74, P79, P83, P88](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p74-p79-p83-p88/4440/15): > > P83 Havingseen Steveo post that his woman responds to high doses of P83 I coated myself with a humongous 75 mcg this evening . I also thought if I piled it on I would notice the effect and could then reduce if necessary before using it on public or with the [Mystery Boy](https://a314.com/product/mystery-boy/) I used a 12.5 mcg to go spray in standard fragrance One spray to each side of the neck Two sprays to the chest One spray to each wrist Initially it wasn’t great. I was reading and sitting there frowning with a of tension hea… May (July 5, 2007): ?€œP83 Havingseen Steveo post that his woman responds to high doses of P83 I coated myself with a humongous 75 mcg this evening . I also thought if I piled it on I would notice the effect and could then reduce if necessary before using it on public or with the Mystery Boy I used a 12.5 mcg to go spray in standard fragrance One spray to each side of the neck Two sprays to the chest One spray to each wrist Initially it wasn’t great. I was reading and sitting there frowning with a of tension headache across the top of my eyebrows and, yup, I was grumpy. So, I stuck my wrists to my nose and huffed the stuff as hard as I could to see where it took me. It’s actually quite strange, because for a while (about 15 mins) the angry mood and the headache lifted and it felt kind of warm and fuzzy, comforting with the merest tinge of sexual frisson. But then I was back to scowling and having a headache. For some reason this gives me a bit of a short fuse and makes my head hurt - at least at this dose it does. It also seems to have a very detrimental effect on my ability to hit the right keys on the keyboard. I’ll try it again at a lower dose, but a high dose definitely makes me a bit moody. Best May?€ > [@Mx101, P83, A314, P74](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mx101-p83-a314-p74/4517/3): > > I can kind of understand this. If only from the P83 part. P83 in large doses (75 mcg) makes me combative , then comfortable, then grumpy. It’s sexual without being threatening, it’s more sexual/comfortable than sexual/ aggressive in smaller doses. I have been wearing 25 mcg today (opposed to 75 mcg) and that is totally different. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a m… May (July 6, 2007): ?€œI can kind of understand this. If only from the P83 part. P83 in large doses (75 mcg) makes me combative , then comfortable, then grumpy.?€ > [@P74, P79, P83, P88](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p74-p79-p83-p88/4440/16): > > P83 I have been wearing 25 mcg of P83 today and that is totally different from the overdose level stipulated above - where I tried 75 mcg. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a man I know would not only show me a wonderful time in the bedroom, but the kind of man who would ALSO (not instead of) stick around. Ideal for most women - an unapologetically masculine [pheromon…](https://a314.com/) May (July 6, 2007): ?€œP83 I have been wearing 25 mcg of P83 today and that is totally different from the overdose level stipulated above - where I tried 75 mcg?€??€ > [@P74, P79, P83, P88](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p74-p79-p83-p88/4440/22): > > Thanks Lor, there does seem to be some similarity here. High dose of P83 made me irritable and gave me a headache P88 this time has given me a headache and also made me irritable. [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) I love… P79 my jury is still out on p79 - because although it does seem to do something, motivation wise, it hasn’t really impressed me much. May May (August 19, 2007): ?€œ?€?High dose of P83 made me irritable and gave me a headache?€??€ > [@My latest results of P83, disturbia, dementia, erotica!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-latest-results-of-p83-disturbia-dementia-erotica/5792/26): > > Hi all I must admit I find the reports of “aggressive tension” when p83 is initially applied fairly understandable. When I applied 75mcg of p83 it made me very grumpy and irritable. I had to drop to a much lower dose to get a pleasant self-effect. I think Tisha also reported that it worked better for her at lower doses too. So experiencing tension either from yourself or from others straight after a dose of 60mcg makes sense to me. May May (October 3, 2007): ?€œHi all I must admit I find the reports of “aggressive tension” when p83 is initially applied fairly understandable. When I applied 75mcg of p83 it made me very grumpy and irritable. I had to drop to a much lower dose to get a pleasant self-effect. I think Tisha also reported that it worked better for her at lower doses too. So experiencing tension either from yourself or from others straight after a dose of 60mcg makes sense to me. May?€ > [@Two Little Old Ladies Tried to Fight Me!! The Strange Effect of P83](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/two-little-old-ladies-tried-to-fight-me-the-strange-effect-of-p83/7182/1): > > I like [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/). Every so often I wear one or two 5 mcg sprays along with my various combos. All good so far. With P83 I’m flirtier, and the men in my life love my extra-minxy attitude. Other women joke around with me and I get lots of smiles reflected back to me. There’s just one thing. Little old ladies hate me. Under normal circumstances they ignore me or are polite. But twice now while wearing P83, I’ve been harangued by seemingly sweet 70+ little old grannies. One flipped out on me for b… Kitten (December 6, 2007): ?€œ Two Little Old Ladies Tried to Fight Me!! The Strange Effect of P83 I like P83. Every so often I wear one or two 5 mcg sprays along with my various combos. All good so far. With P83 I’m flirtier, and the men in my life love my extra-minxy attitude. Other women joke around with me and I get lots of smiles reflected back to me. There’s just one thing. Little old ladies hate me. Under normal circumstances they ignore me or are polite. But twice now while wearing P83, I’ve been harangued by seemingly sweet 70+ little old grannies. One flipped out on me for being five minutes late to an appointment with someone else (the appt wasn’t even with her!)–going on and on and on. And on. About consideration for others. I agreed with her in principle, but she seemed to need to make her point again and again, heedless of anything I said. The other lady took great offense at a quip I made to her husband. I can’t remember exactly what I said, but my non-flirting humor with strangers is always PG and fairly PC. We were in line at Walgreens and I had to deal with this irate woman all the way up to the register. “That was not a funny joke! You should be sorry to insinuate such a thing!! That is not something to joke about!!” At first, people around us were glowering at me like I must have made some sort of obscene or terroristic threat to get her so upset. But after a bit of me using my “dealing with difficult people” appeasement skills, everyone–including the husband–just looked embarrassed. With both ladies, I finally had to turn away and totally disengage because neither of them was about to stop on her own. So I guess this is a little warning. Next time you’re volunteering at the retirement center or visiting your Great Aunt Esther, might want to skip the P83. Best, Kitten?€ > [@Somebody stop me! A girl OD on P83?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/somebody-stop-me-a-girl-od-on-p83/8508/15): > > 50 MCG P83 Short Review 10 sprays of P83 5mcg to hair and cleavage equaling 50 mcg, topped up several times. Duration: Approximately 3-4 hours. Self effects: Strong. Smiling and self indulgence. Effects on others: Women somewhat affected. Men responded mostly to self effects. Worn at home, car, work, restaurant, and mall. Detailed Review Singing Dancing Girl I was brave and wore 10 sprays, topped up throughout the day. No other [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/). At first I put the P83 on a kleenex as planned. … Kitten (January 2008): ?€œ50 MCG P83?€?When thwarted in any way, I got mad all out of proportion. So did other women around me. At the restaurant, a lady at a table nearby got ever so irritated that she couldn’t have her hibiscus iced tea. And would not let it go. Later back at work, I felt positively murderous when I tried to print out a document on the group printer, only to find that the toner needed replacing. I banged around the storage cabinets trying to find another cartridge and the team admin came in to see what was the matter. When I told her, she too became incensed. Not really proud of that reaction, but it happened…?€ ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/11 "2008-01-28T03:19:52Z")
In the thread `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/pheromone-theory/evolutionary-psychology-androsterone-men-none-men-21.htmlthe` two types of males talked about for reproductive purposes are: ?€œ?€?the wise, competent, long lived, nurturing, money-making fatherly type [predominantly AndrosteRone] and the not so wise, often unreliable and short lived, not so caring, wild child “bad boy” type [predominantly AndrosteNone]?€??€ So where would P83 fit in there? Well the only posts/theories I have found on the forum for what kind of man P83 could represent are from May. We can learn from May’s posts below that at a lower dosage (25 mcg), P83 to her feels “sexy in a ?€˜grown-up?€™ kind of way - quietly but securely alpha-male. Relaxing and edible at the same time… Confidently and quietly alpha male and ?€˜grown-up?€™, even ?€˜mature?€™ successful alpha male at that.” “It’s sexual without being threatening, it’s more sexual/comfortable than sexual/ aggressive in smaller doses.” ?€œIf I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a man I know would not only show me a wonderful time in the bedroom, but the kind of man who would ALSO (not instead of) stick around. Ideal for most women - an unapologetically masculine pheromone that speaks of a man who is not only sexual, but reliable and “grown-up”. It’s sexy and “grown-up” but it is definitely sexy first! This definitely - to my nose - speaks of comfortable, but highly sexual long-term relationship material! In short- if my experience is typical - this should be socially recognised anywhere and be very magnetic to women.?€ > [@Mx101, P83, A314, P74](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mx101-p83-a314-p74/4517/3): > > I can kind of understand this. If only from the P83 part. P83 in large doses (75 mcg) makes me combative , then comfortable, then grumpy. It’s sexual without being threatening, it’s more sexual/comfortable than sexual/ aggressive in smaller doses. I have been wearing 25 mcg today (opposed to 75 mcg) and that is totally different. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a m… May (July 6, 2007): ?€œI can kind of understand this. If only from the P83 part. P83 in large doses (75 mcg) makes me combative , then comfortable, then grumpy. It’s sexual without being threatening, it’s more sexual/comfortable than sexual/ aggressive in smaller doses. I have been wearing 25 mcg today (opposed to 75 mcg) and that is totally different. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a man I know would not only show me a wonderful time in the bedroom, but the kind of man who would ALSO (not instead of) stick around. Ideal for most women - an unapologetically masculine pheromone that speaks of a man who is not only sexual, but reliable and “grown-up”. It’s sexy and “grown-up” but it is definitely sexy first! May - edit\* if you are going to have someone snuggling into your neck, then some P83 might just seal the deal as it is comfortable and sexual at the same time!?€ > [@P74, P79, P83, P88](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p74-p79-p83-p88/4440/16): > > P83 I have been wearing 25 mcg of P83 today and that is totally different from the overdose level stipulated above - where I tried 75 mcg. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a man I know would not only show me a wonderful time in the bedroom, but the kind of man who would ALSO (not instead of) stick around. Ideal for most women - an unapologetically masculine [pheromon…](https://a314.com/) May (July 6, 2007): ?€œP83 I have been wearing 25 mcg of P83 today and that is totally different from the overdose level stipulated above - where I tried 75 mcg. If I were to smell this on a man, it would be the vibe I would associate not with a man I wanted to have a quick fling with - it’s more than that, but the vibe of a man I know would not only show me a wonderful time in the bedroom, but the kind of man who would ALSO (not instead of) stick around. Ideal for most women - an unapologetically masculine pheromone that speaks of a man who is not only sexual, but reliable and “grown-up”. It’s sexy and “grown-up” but it is definitely sexy first! This definitely - to my nose - speaks of comfortable, but highly sexual long-term relationship material! In short- if my experience is typical - this should be socially recognised anywhere and be very magnetic to women. But I still have to discover the effect this has on men when it is worn by a woman… I think I have to go shopping tomorrow! May?€ > [@P74, P79, P83, P88](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p74-p79-p83-p88/4440/28): > > p83 Wearing p83 again - I think just a smidge over 25mcg straight to the chest (I had the nozzle facing the wrong way for one spray and only a bit got me so I did two full to-go sprays after that). Just wearing the [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) - nothing else. Like quite a few pheros it still gives me a weird sensation akin to tension over my eyebrows but more specifically right between them. But I do like the feeling of P83 in doses around about the 25mcg mark. It’s sexy in a “grown-up” kind of way - quietly but secu… May (August 26, 2007): ?€œp83 Wearing p83 again - I think just a smidge over 25mcg straight to the chest (I had the nozzle facing the wrong way for one spray and only a bit got me so I did two full to-go sprays after that). Just wearing the P83 - nothing else. Like quite a few pheros it still gives me a weird sensation akin to tension over my eyebrows but more specifically right between them. But I do like the feeling of P83 in doses around about the 25mcg mark. It’s sexy in a “grown-up” kind of way - quietly but securely alpha-male. Relaxing and edible at the same time. I wouldn’t say this is a phero I would wear it’s alpha - but, to me, it is male. Confidently and quietly alpha male and “grown-up”, even “mature” successful alpha male at that. I don’t get any self-effects though - I wish it had the same effect on me it does on Kitten! Best May?€ ---
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 9:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/12 "2008-01-28T09:42:28Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > **However P83 does not really represent anything in evolutionary psychology that we know of…** So? Neither does aspirin. Nor does Adderall. These are not natural compounds in the body. In fact, these substances aren’t even found anywhere in nature. But they still produce an effect, don’t they? Androtics has tons of pheromones in its inventory. And there are probably plenty more that are unknown to us that they’re testing. I have a hard time believing that all these pheromones can be found in armpit sweat. It’s possible, but I doubt it. I think a lot of these putatives are completely man-made, and they just happen to exert similar effects that real pheromones do. A compound doesn’t have to be specifically androstenone to bind to the receptors. It just has to have similar functional groups. And, not only that, perhaps it has functional groups that mimic more than one molecule? One side of it might bind to the -none receptors, while another might bind to -Androsterone or -Androstenol receptors. Which, of course, would change its effects, depending on its affinity for binding to each receptor. If we could see the structure of the compound and compare it to the ones we know, it’s possible that we could narrow its effects down. Although I’m sure Jas and MHarris would just laugh at us if we tried to find out. Hell, it could be a cat pheromone for all we know. Cats loooove to cuddle, but also get moody and aggressive quite easily. This of course would mean that we really ARE spraying ourselves with kitty tinkle…😮 Chew on that for a little. 😉 meow ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/13 "2008-01-31T11:13:00Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by Scaro I don’t know why there isn’t any talk about finding a good p83 / -none ratio. MHarris referred to the Androsterone/none ratio he developed as his secret golden ratio that was the heart of A314 - one which he wasn’t about to reveal. I’ve been trying to buy p83 for a while now and everytime it is sold out or I would have already begun testing p83 /none ratios. It seems to me that from all the descriptions it would be a winner. Perhaps 3 or 4 parts p83 to 1 part none? You’d have to play around with it, but from all the descriptions of p83 being a passive pheromone enhancing what is there, I figure a small part none (VERY active pheromone) might work rather synergisticly. I don’t think there’s ever going to be a good none replacement, but maybe with something likep83 /none you would be able to keep the amount of -none relatively low. Has anyone done any experiments like this? Yes like I mentioned before, not to mention the aggression that both molecules can bring out, one would have to be very mindful of the difference in diffusion rates between P83 and Androstenone if one was to use them together. P83 seems to be inconsistent from the reports below in terms of duration of effects - sometimes its effects leave within an hour and other times it seems to last longer (even up to 4 hours). On the other hand Androstenone can last for more than a day on the skin. I think the correct strategy for combining the two would be to use one shot of Androstenone daily (in whatever dosage level you want to test) and keep adding P83 every few hours… P83 duration of effects > [@King of the world mix: how MX147 kept a heavily sexual mix social and open](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/king-of-the-world-mix/1454/4): > > oh no it was of an “oOoh I love it”. people tend to communicate in fewer words when they’re drunk lol. As far as the putatives go, I’ve gotten a fairly good handle on P79, but I’m trying to learn how to use P83. I seem to OD with P83 at anything above 25mcg, and it causes me to feel pretty aggitated…it fades within about an hour, so I’m thinking its a pretty fast diffusing pheromone. There’s defiantely an aggressiveness to P83…it isn’t really none-like, but high dose none+ high dose P83 defina… Sigma (January 22, 2007): “…As far as the putatives go, I’ve gotten a fairly good handle on P79, but I’m trying to learn how to useP83. I seem to OD with P83 at anything above 25mcg, and it causes me to feel pretty aggitated…it fades within about an hour, so I’m thinking its a pretty fast diffusing pheromone. There’s defiantely an aggressiveness to P83…it isn’t really none-like, but high dose none+ high dose P83 definately doesn’t work out. Might work better with P79…” 1 week of p83 MarkL (March 11, 2007): “2.5 mu P83 I applied to chin and inhaled during the spray. Just one spray over a mostly depleted base of A314 mutant and [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/). After about ten minutes, I started making the small muscular adjustments that remind me of trying to clear my sinuses and nasal passages when taking off in an airplane. Except I was flexing and extending my temporoparietal muscles, the auriculares .. and some of the jaw and throat muscles as well: clearing my ears. The next few hours riding around the city on buses and trains I was attuned to the sounds around me. Perhaps it was a shift in attention, or perhaps a real ratchet in auditory capacity – I was able to get a sense of the tone of people around me who were conversing, even when they spoke at a murmur (or I felt I did!) I seemed to have an empathetic understanding of their … “vocal intent”, if that makes any sense…” > [@My latest results of P83, disturbia, dementia, erotica!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-latest-results-of-p83-disturbia-dementia-erotica/5792/19): > > I answered your questions in the quotes above in green. Thanks for the rep. As far as the agitation side I have noticed apprehension in some instances, but not outright aggression. However, that being said, the managers daughter employee did strike me. I’m not sure if that can be taken in the context of aggression from the [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/), or another theory I have been going over is maybe because I wasn’t paying her any attention she became upset. It really has me thinking about it and why she was so angr… SteveO (October 2, 2007): “…I’ve seen this one [P83], when I initially try it deplete itself rather quickly, especially when I mix it with other products. Only sometimes though, and thats the peculiar thing, I can’t quite pin the effects down to a specific time. This report is based on an entire day with only a small re-application and that application was in my Jeep with the windows down for the ride to BuckyStars and the wind blowing in my face for a good fifteen minutes. There are sometimes when it seems as if it lasts a very lengthy time and other times when I’m like what the heck just happened, why did this just wear out like it did? I am definitely going to keep more accurate control notes in my journal including temperatures, humidity levels, outside exposure times, and the likes. I can’t seem to find that one constant that makes it stable sometimes. Most of the BuckyStars time was spent outside, in temps around 75 degrees and I’d say inside was about the same…” > [@My latest results of P83, disturbia, dementia, erotica!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-latest-results-of-p83-disturbia-dementia-erotica/5792/31): > > same for me… yes… been using [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) in an acting class and that has been my experience (although it was used together with P74 and my base mix). I will try wearing P83 alone one or two days and see if this is true. yes! PheroQuirk (October 3, 2007): “Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates Yes steve, I am not that sure about how long the P83 lasts. Sometimes, it did seem to have effects even after a solid few hours for me. Other times the effects did seem to go quite quickly same for me…” > [@P83 as a way of further increasing A314's potential gains in Personal Power](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p83-as-a-way-of-further-increasing-a314s-potential-gains-in-personal-power/7367): > > Has anyone tried P83 specifically for the ‘increased focus on the wearer’/auditory sensitivity/‘energy sensitivity agent’ effect (okay its hard to understand I think). I would think it would be useful when wanting to convince others, when wanting to sell something to them (even an idea), and when wanting others to be further focused on your A314 presence. I am not talking about the ‘sexual’ type hits that this putative can bring with it but rather flat out using it as a way to further increase … Capone (December 18, 2007): “…I always sprayed the mix half an hour before needed so I must say those big effects [from the P83] and girl hit were in the 2hours barrier, in fact into the first hour.” `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/worth-wait-im-testing-p83-7024.html#post72887` mako (November 7, 2007): “1 day of testing p83 regular strength. To go bottle Scent. unscented Day 1. 2 sprays, 2 to neck… Duration of effect 4 hours. (may last longer, don’t know. i was out side in the cold)” `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/worth-wait-im-testing-p83-7024.html#post73112` mako (November 8, 2007): “2nd day of testing p83 regular strength. To go bottle Scent. unscented Day 2. 2 sprays, 2 to neck Enviroment. Outside… Duration of effect 4 hours. (may last longer, don’t know. i was out side in the cold)” > [@Somebody stop me! A girl OD on P83?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/somebody-stop-me-a-girl-od-on-p83/8508/15): > > 50 MCG P83 Short Review 10 sprays of P83 5mcg to hair and cleavage equaling 50 mcg, topped up several times. Duration: Approximately 3-4 hours. Self effects: Strong. Smiling and self indulgence. Effects on others: Women somewhat affected. Men responded mostly to self effects. Worn at home, car, work, restaurant, and mall. Detailed Review Singing Dancing Girl I was brave and wore 10 sprays, topped up throughout the day. No other [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/). At first I put the P83 on a kleenex as planned. … Kitten (January 2008): “50 MCGP83 Short Review 10 sprays of P83 5mcg to hair and cleavage equaling 50 mcg, topped up several times. Duration: Approximately 3-4 hours…” Androstenone duration of effects > [@New Product Launch: RAW Power - 39.97 - Goodbye Primal!](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-product-launch-raw-power-39-97-goodbye-primal/38/32): > > Welcome to the forum! Well, you get 10mcg of -none per drop, with up to a 5% margin of error (if you work out the numbers, this really isn’t so bad - you’re talking 9.5mcg to 10.5mcg per drop). It’s a little more diffusive that some oil products you may have used. I do add some diffusion enhancers, to ensure a “cleaner, fuller burn” of the androstenone. I’ll get into -none diffusion issues in a moment. While I have great respect for some companies such as LaCroy, I’m not sure some other com… MHarris (February 13, 2006): “…You know how superglue just loves your skin more than anything else on earth? Androstenone is very similar. It has a high “affinity” for the skin, and hangs onto you like spiderman. It doesn’t like jumping ship from your skin to the air around you (diffusing). You could say thatandrostenone loves to “hang out” and hates to go. The idea of “buildup” is very real with androstenone, both in terms of what happens on your skin… and under, when some of the -none absorbs. It can literally sit around happily on your skin for 3 days or more without completing diffusing. We already have some additives from the fragrance industry that help with diffusion, both in our oil and spray line, but I think there’s still aways to go with -none. Ultimately, I hope to hire a chemical physicist that can work out the androstenone diffusion problem better. Until then, that’s another reason why dosing is extra critical. It’s not a perfect solution, but with dosing, you can at least get a sense for and work WITH your buildup… your own ebb and flow of androstenone. If you wear 15mcg of -none one day, it’s likely you may need only (as an example) 10mcg the next, depending upon what your body chemistry does to the -none. The third day, you may need only 5mcg. Fourth day, you take a break. It helps a great deal if you learn to smell androstenone (most people can learn). That way you can better determine how long it literally “sticks around”, and how much you need for the effects you want.” > [@Raw Power vs. androstenone spray](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/raw-power-vs-androstenone-spray/157/2): > > Raw Power has a couple of diffusion enhancers that do bring out the natural androstenone odor a little more (to those who can smell it), but otherwise, it’s unscented. Sprays, especially high volume sprays like the ones we use, almost always diffuse [pheromones](https://a314.com/) better than point application products. Visualize the androstenone molecules, if you will. With a typical oil, you’re applying a dot and spread it over a limited area. You’re stacking the androstenone molecules high, one on top of each… MHarris (February 21, 2006): “…Visualize the androstenone molecules, if you will. With a typical oil, you’re applying a dot and spread it over a limited area. You’re stacking theandrostenone molecules high, one on top of each other. With a high-volume spray, you’re spreading a fine layer across a larger area of skin. The skin is the heated surface who’s job is to help diffuse molecules on it’s surface. The more you stack molecules, the less they heat up and diffuse… especially androstenone, which has a high affinity for the skin, and for other androstenone molecule. It loves to hold on, and NOT diffuse. As a metaphor, think of an imaginary tall pot of water with very little width or length, more like a tall glass of water than a pot. Very little bottom to touch the heated surface area of a stove. This is similar to point application style products, such the oil and alcohol based ones that use droppers. Contrast that to a big, wide pot, that’s short. Lots of area to make contact with the heat source, and a big wide mouth with lots of surface area to release steam from. A big wide pan like this would be more akin to a spray product. The more surface area you cover, the faster and easier it is to heat up the pheromone molecules. You also have more area to diffuse from. Two pluses in terms of diffusion. Where point applied oil based products really shine is in warm weather. Your body is virtually a diffusion machine when it gets hot out, and it’s nice to have the rate limiting effect of oil products at that time. The other area where oils sometimes shine is with molecules that tend to diffuse quickly on their own.Unlike androstenone, which can stick to the skin for days, alpha androstenol diffuses very quickly in comparison. It’s fleeting and can benefit from oil application…” > [@what is in 'Come Talk To Me '?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-in-come-talk-to-me/213/14): > > Out of the androstenols, most people prefer more alpha-nol for “dates”, than beta-nols. Dates being sort of care-free fun, light activities. Beta-nol is more the stuff of relationships… mental bonding. You’ll learn a lot about each other when you wear it, but necessarily physically. Because almost ALL women respond positively to “A1”, whereas a much smaller percentage respond positively to androstenone (but when they do – oh boy, watch out!). It’s more of a “sure thing”, and if you have any … MHarris (March 21, 2006): “…It’s a very fleeting, diffusive molecule that doesn’t stick around as long as -none. (actually, nothing clings to the skin as long as androstenone – it can adhere and leave a residue for days)” ---
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/14 "2008-02-01T00:17:31Z")
I see these posts all the time about slow androstenone diffusion. And it makes everyone worry about OD’s and stuff. “Don’t wear -none two days in a row! It sticks to your skin and you’ll OD!” …If it sticks to your skin… then it’s NOT getting to people’s noses… How is it gonna be an OD? I’ve used The Edge for quite a few months now and I’ve gone multiple days in a row with the same exact applictation and never experienced a build-up effect. Sometimes I even spray some on in the morning, and then another equal dose at night. I find the effects are strong for the first 6-7 hours, but pretty much nil after that. And I’m white, not Asian. I’ve noticed worse reactions from high doses of A314 than -none. And, oddly enough, A314 + -none is less effective on me than -none itself. Perhaps LaCroy’s “secret ingredient” is cooking spray? Maybe whatever it is makes the -none less sticky? Anyone ever compared TUTH to The Edge and noticed a difference in OD threshold or buildup? On the subject of the [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) diffusion weirdness, perhaps it’s effected by your cover scent and/or other pheros in your mix? I noticed this, too, but I also was experimenting with different combinations of pheros, changing the ratios all the time, cause I only had some to-gos at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/15 "2008-02-16T00:10:59Z")
Wore with a ‘friend with benefits’ (Caucasian in her early 20s) a few weeks back: P75 (20 mcg ) P83 (40 mcg ) MX212 (10.375mcg Alpha- Androstenol & 10.375mcg TAA in Coconut scent - 3 sprays of a ToGo bottle) [Instant Gentleman](https://a314.com/product/gentleman/) (3 sprays of a regular size bottle) and ZERO ANDROSTENONE . The intimate encounter was more ‘slow-burning’, gentle than usual but with definite passionate moments. Lots of talking afterwards as well - felt like Scent of Eros at times (must be the Alpha -Nol (in MX212)/AndrosteRone (in IG ) combo). A good fun friendship vibe. I said a few quite (not aggressive but) negative things which was unusual considering I was wearing mainly mood lifters - I am putting it down to the P75 . Am not sure what P75 really adds at this point - I will have to experiment some more with it (I was thinking it could provide some of the benefits of AndrosteNone in intimate encounters minus the drawbacks from a few preliminary experiments). I have got in contact with her this weekend while we are both busy, it seems that she wants to maintain the friendship and ‘arrangement’ (by comparison she virtually cut all ties after I wore NPA for men around her and lost my cool once with it on). Overall the mix above didn’t make me feel very ‘Alpha’ (no A314 or AndrosteNone on) nor did it make me ‘seem like’ an alpha stud in the bedroom (no AndrosteNone on). Nevertheless it could get me more of what I want (relaxed fun encounters and friendship) and less of what I don’t want (dramas, bitchiness, unreliability, people going out of my life). Next things I want to find out: - what P75 adds to intimate encounters from a woman’s point of view; - add other potentially erotic additions in intimate encounters such as Copulins and putatives like P79 ,P90 , P93 , and even perhaps P80 and P86 based on Tacitus’ experiments); - possibly try adding Twilight Alchemy Labs’ high-Cinnamon sensual scent ‘Caliph’s Beloved’. Visionary ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/16 "2008-02-16T00:44:06Z")
AndrostAonone has many of the benefits of AndrostEnone without many of the negatives. I’ve used it as a standalone and in mixes for about 2 years with promising results. It also mixes well with AndrostEnone and seems to have a buffering effect. I don’t know how many commercial products use AndrostAonone–they guard their secrets–but Aquagen is rumored to use it. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/17 "2008-02-16T14:34:58Z")
Great experiment man! I am looking forward to future installments. I am curious about the part about you saying negative things, was it just playful hurting comments (too cocky…TAA maybe?) or aggressive (maybe -none remnants from past use, if not P75, or maybe you had a bad day?) You have addressed your approach in detail here. Something that I want to try is P79+TAF+P83+P86+[P93](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p93/). Then probably adding rone and nol in high amounts (50 mcg). Your NPA experience is typical for me too. I was almost thrown out of house by my gf after we had sex during my high -none use phase! > [@Socrates](#): > > Wore with a ‘friend with benefits’ (Caucasian in her early 20s) a few weeks back: > P75 (20 mcg) > P83 (40 mcg) > MX212 (10.375mcg Alpha-Androstenol & 10.375mcg TAA in Coconut scent - 3 sprays of a ToGo bottle) > Instant Gentleman (3 sprays of a regular size bottle) > and ZERO ANDROSTENONE 😛 . > > The intimate encounter was more ‘slow-burning’, gentle than usual but with definite passionate moments. Lots of talking afterwards as well - felt like Scent of Eros at times (must be the Alpha Androstenol (in MX212)/AndrosteRone (in Instant Gentleman) combo). A good fun friendship vibe. I said a few quite (not aggressive but) negative things which was unusual considering I was wearing mainly mood lifters - I am putting it down to the P75. Am not sure what P75 really adds at this point - I will have to experiment some more with it (I was thinking it could provide some of the benefits of AndrosteNone in intimate encounters minus the drawbacks from a few preliminary experiments). > > I have got in contact with her this weekend while we are both busy, it seems that she wants to maintain the friendship and ‘arrangement’ (by comparison she virtually cut all ties after I wore NPA for men around her and lost my cool once with it on). > > Overall the mix above didn’t make me feel very ‘Alpha’ (no A314 or AndrosteNone on) nor did it make me ‘seem like’ an alpha stud in the bedroom (no AndrosteNone on). Nevertheless it could get me more of what I want (relaxed fun encounters and friendship) and less of what I don’t want (dramas, bitchiness, unreliability, people going out of my life). > > Next things I want to find out: > > - what P75 adds to intimate encounters from a woman’s point of view; > - add other potentially erotic additions in intimate encounters such as Copulins and putatives like P79, P90, P93, and even perhaps P80 and P86 based on Tacitus’ experiments); > - possibly try adding Twilight Alchemy Labs’ high-Cinnamon sensual scent ‘Caliph’s Beloved’. > > Visionary ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/replacing-androstenone-with-regard-to-attraction-phase-shifting-and-lust-enhancing/8664/18 "2008-02-16T23:55:15Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by Gegogi AndrostAonone has many of the benefits of AndrostEnone without many of the negatives. I’ve used it as a standalone and in mixes for about 2 years with promising results. It also mixes well with AndrostEnone and seems to have a buffering effect. I don’t know how many commercial products use AndrostAonone–they guard their secrets–but Aquagen is rumored to use it. Yes Gegogi I am pretty sure one of the putatives that I use at Androtics is AndrostAnone (though out of respect for this company I won’t divulge which one). For me the putative , isn’t that similar toAndrostEnone , aside from the name of course . As far as buffering AndrostEnone yes it does it reasonably well for me but probably not enough for my liking (I still got some avoidance-type reactions when I tried relatively high doses of AndrostAnone with low doses of AndrostEnone ). Quote: Originally Posted by nbully79 Great experiment man! I am looking forward to future installments. I am curious about the part about you saying negative things, was it just playful hurting comments (too cocky… TAA maybe?) or aggressive (maybe -none remnants from past use, if not P75 , or maybe you had a bad day?) You have addressed your approach in detail here. Something that I want to try is P79 + TAF +P83 + P86 + P93 . Then probably adding Androsterone and Androstenol in high amounts (50 mcg ). Your NPA experience is typical for me too. I was almost thrown out of house by my gf after we had sex during my high -none use phase!. Thanks for the feeback Bull. That mix you will try looks interesting and in fact pretty similar to what I will be trying. I look forward to your experiments (and anyone elses as well) with ZERO AndrostEnonemixes. I forgot about TAF 's erotic side - will have to order that one soon (see the thread ‘Erotic’ properties of TAF). Yea regarding the problems with -None (even small amounts), I don’t mind a bit of aggression here and there from a woman but the problem is that I often get cut off for long periods after I wear it (sometimes permanently). The thing that made me be a bit negative might have been the CTTM that I wore like 10 hours before hand - I’ve noticed some powerful Beta -Nol reactions many many hours after CTTM is put on and Beta-Nol can lead to too many unfiltered thoughts making their way into spoken words. But I think the P75may have had something to do with the negativity given that it has been reported to make some men feel bad: P75 … Oi!!! Dancing\_Joker (May 1, 2006): "I’ve been trying P75 since Friday. The first time I applied P75 to my skin, I had a sensation similar to a none rush (slight pounding in my head, boost in energy, increase in visual acuity), and that was only one drop of a mix with P75! During my tests with mixes using P75, I’ve experienced more head rushes, as if there were a weight bearing down on my head and shoulders. On Sunday, I used a total of ~150 mcg over the course of 4 hours. I woke up Monday morning with serious light headedness and slight dizziness. It felt as if my perception were visually distorted, but while I was disoriented physically, my mind was clear and actually focused. It also felt as if I had a strange headache that lasted throughout the day. Has anyone else experienced this? If P75 causes disorientation or headaches in men, I can see how it would drive men away like someone mentioned previously." P75 … Oi!!! Homura83 (May 6, 2006): “Ok here’s my analysis of P75 after a week’s use.I can only take around 3 max 4sprays.Anything more and I’ll feel a slight throb in my head,and my head feels heavy like I’m drunk.But women do react well to it.I notice they feel quite happy and chatty in my area.An effect which is quite similar toAndrostadienone.I can’t tell any difference between them yet.But they definitely do give you the attention from women you need.And they do repel males.” Yet again. (Latina, MX113 + TAA oil) Homura83 (October 10, 2006): “…I have P75 also at 15mcg,unscented.Its effects at this dosage are very prominent.It has quite an unpleasant effect on the wearer and guys around you.A spray of 15mcg would cause your mood and other guys around you from normal to bad.It causes everyone to have a bad mood and be quite aggressive,even more aggressive than on none.It does not have any significant sexual effects on females to observe.Definitely will not make the wearer feel good.It gives a head heavy feel and you do not have the mood to do anything when you are using it.In summary it would just not do you any good on a date,when you’re supposed to feel good and enjoy your time.Still have 3/4 bottle left,can’t bring myself to use it anymore when I’m having such an enjoyable time with the other feel good pheromones. …” `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/mx-102-college-apps-d-5964.html#post61983` kutibah (September 2007): ?€œWell, P75 in my opinion is very strange. I’m already half through the bottle with the results still vague. But it definitely does SOMETHING. However, I have noticed people of both sexes to become more aggressive when I have it on. Maybe I’ll try ODing on it to see if it can be more determinable?€ `http://www.pheromonetalk.com/mens-pheromone-advice-tricks-tips/mx-102-college-apps-d-5964.html#post62004` kutibah (September 2007): ?€œ?€?I wear about 2-3 sprays [of P75]. I’ve noticed women seem to definitely react much more than men. But I don’t know how to describe the reactions, it’s like a playful aggression, yet in some ways more serious. I’m not yet sure if I like it 100% yet. And to me, it makes me feel like a jerk? Haha, yeah, it seems like it may have some effects ofInstant Jerk, but since I don’t have that I can’t really compare the two.?€ Anyway I am ‘looking forward’ to trying P75 some more . -Visionary