# Requesting Ladies Help and Advice: Should I be Angry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [December 21, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636 "2007-12-21T01:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eslite119](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eslite119/32/176_2.png) [@Eslite119](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eslite119)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/1 "2007-12-21T01:26:04Z")
Hello all! First I would like to introduce myself a little. I’ve joined this community about 8 months ago and the experience with pheros were amazing to say the least; it became my new hobby. I enjoyed everyone’s posts and the advices given, and I realized that people in this forum are very kind and helpful. I started pheros mostly for personal development, which I succeeded in retrospect, and also to attract my target girl. **Important part bolded below** And this is about my target girl, which now I feel… well I don’t know exactly how I should feel. By all means I do not wish to ruin anyone’s holiday by telling you my story, but I would like to seek out some feedbacks from the forum members. It all started about year and a half ago, when I met this girl while being hired at the same company. At first, we started out as a co-worker, but she was young (22), she was far away from home with no one to depend on, and got her first job after college at a foreign land here in US (English is her second language). I felt compelled to help her, so I did: since she didn’t have a car back then I picked her up and dropped her off everyday, and when she had problems at work I came to assist her so she wouldn’t look bad in front of supervisors and such. Everyone in the company knew I was going out of my way of helping someone that I recently met, but honestly I wasn’t looking for anything in return. It wasn’t long until this escalated to friendship, which we started to talk about subjects other than work. She told me about her recent break-up of LTR and she said she wasn’t looking for anything at that time (I’ll come back to this) and she just wanted to focus on her professional future. I didn’t care since I wasn’t attracted to her at that time. With my consistent assistance and friendship, she grew very comfortable around me. At times she has shown signs of attractions. 3 months later we got hired, I got transferred to different office and she wasn’t very happy about the transfer. We kept in contact to see how each other was doing. Even though I was far away from her I constantly kept in touch with her and assisting her in every way possible. I guess my vested interested in her grew stronger as I was devoting my times toward her; I honestly wanted her to be successful. She was having all sorts of problem at work because of language barrier. Additional 3 months passed and we saw each other once again at a conference. She was happy to see me and I was as well, but I didn’t feel the same way about her as I did several months ago. Conference ended, but month later we were both assigned to special 3 months training with other co-workers of our age (this is when I got into pheros, very exciting experiments). However, she got into a huge car accident before the training started and this almost prevented her from participating. She eventually came through and participated while being treated. As always, I checked up on her daily to support her. During the first month, I confirmed my feelings for this girl. I tried to keep it discrete and not to make it obvious. Pheros did make things more fun; I realized she likes Mx149, Pheroproof, IS, and [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/). Other co-workers started to suspect that there was something going on between us. When I faced the dilemma as to tell her how I felt about her or just keep it discrete, I resorted to this forum for some advice (thanks again guys!). Vast majority told me not to go forth with it and just let time do its work. The girl also being my co-worker made things more complicated. Well, I honestly didn’t know I was gonna see her again after this training so it was now or never; I went against the advice. I told her that I think she was a great person and would like to get to know her a little better. Distance grew between us and for several days after the confession we hardly talked to one another. Eventually we had our first fight, but we came to an understanding. She told me she was not interested in dating anyone at that point and she wouldn’t change anything. She also told me I was a good friend and cared about me deeply. Things were back to normal as I did what I normally did. At the end of the 3 month training session, she hurt me deeply for the first time. As we were assigned back to our individual offices, she found a new place and telling people about it, except me. She was asking for help from people she barely knew and this was something that her “old self” would’ve come to me first and let me know first hand. I had to find out from one of the mutual friends. She told me I was a good friend and cared about me deeply, but her action said otherwise as I would’ve at least expected a good friend would let her friend know about the new home she acquired. I asked her why, and she said she didn’t want to burden me or give me “wrong message.” But I was to come by and help/visit her if I wanted (her new place is 150 miles from where I lived). She made it sound like as if I was begging to help her. I kept my emotions in place and parted with her as if I wasn’t hurt. As we were assigned back to our home offices, I started to hear that she wasn’t performing well at her office due to certain difficulties (health issues from accident and more so because of language barrier). By coincidence I called her one day and heard her sobbing over the phone; she had a bad day at work as the supervisor “instructed” her for her incompetence. I comforted her as much as I could and boosted her confidence. From that point forward, I devoted myself even more for her and assisted her as needs arised. 2 months later, we got lucky and assigned to a special project. I was able to see her again. As we were assigned, she called me first thing and wanted to talk. We talked about which hotel to stay, rental cars, etc. While working, we had fun and there was even more chemistry happening. But one morning, she was little cranky and I asked her how she was doing. She gave me a “screw you” type of look and walked away. Naturally I was upset as I was insulted, and later in the day she came up to me as if nothing happened, which angered me even more. She was giving me “what’s your problem?” type of attitude. Couple days later, I told her to come to my room and we talked things through. I told her exactly what I felt and I told her that she was beginning to take me for granted. I was gonna be there for her, but I expect to be treated with proper respect. She apologized and gave me a hug saying “I love you.” I forgave her. While we were involved in a project, her bday was coming up. Since we were working like dogs, I didn’t think she’d have time to enjoy her bday as much. I wanted to arrange something special for her, so I called my business partners (side-business) to arrange a special gift package. During one weekend I flew back home to pick up the package and came back to the assigned area. People thought it was little “fancy,” but I didn’t care. She got the present, but I wasn’t there to see her open it as I was to report back home. She said thank you in many different ways. My bday came 2 weeks after her’s. In the morning, I received a text message from her wishing me Happy Bday. She sent me e-card and later called me at night in a rush as she was going to visit a tatto parlor with some other guy friend. From that point forward we started to talk almost on a daily basis. About two months ago, she got into another car accident. This time I actually visited her, driving 300miles roundtrip. We talked and went to a cafe and so forth. I wanted to make sure if she was okay and luckily it wasn’t too serious. When we parted, she told me to call her when I arrive back home and I told her that she should call me after 3 hours to see if I got back safely. **I gotta mention that she has something against calling other people, especially men, even when it is appropriate.** I got home, but she never called. Next day, she left me a voice message saying that she was too tired and fell asleep so she didn’t call. I called her later, and we eventaully got to talking where I told her that I still had feelings for her (duh!) and I would be waiting until she gets settled, but I expected her to tell me first thing if she found someone else. Again, she didn’t like the idea and she thought what I said was **inappropriate** while I thought it was **common sense**. She said she never asked for my help and she never told me to come visit her (yea, she invited me after I said I wanted to see her). Regardless, she said she will tell me when the time comes although she has no desire of dating anyone. We continually talked up until 3 weeks ago where I started to evaluate myself. She still had issues with calling me, so she would find some method to make me call her (maybe its her way of not giving me the wrong message). I severed all communications with her, because I was busy as hell with business trips and also to gauge her reactions. Basically, I took away everything at one point from her. I wanted her to not take me for granted and to see where I stand. Unusual flow of emails started to come from her side asking me how I was doing and so forth in addition to request for assistance. At one time she sent me her work so I can revise it. I spent my entire weekend fixing her work just so she wouldn’t get into trouble. After it was done, she just sent me a text message saying “thanks.” More emails came, and I just did not heed to her request. She was telling me she is tired, sick and so forth which is also the reason why she didn’t call me. Two weeks passed and she sent me another email saying that she appreciates everything that I’ve done for her and wanted to say thank you if she hasn’t done already. I still didn’t respond. **2 days ago, while at work and before I was to go into a board meeting, she sent me an email. She said she was “officially dating” another guy and that she hopes that I don’t feel bad about her. My heart sank a little, and I wasn’t angry at the fact that she found another person. However and moment later, I started to get angry at the fact about the method she used to relay this type of message. She clearly knew I was working (she sent the message via corporate email during the morning) and didn’t have a descency of waiting until the evening and at least calling me to tell me. Plus, she said she was too sick and tired to spend 5 minutes of her time to call me and yet she had plenty of time to date another guy? So I wasn’t even a friend to her, and I’m sure a homeless dog would get a better treatment than this. Several hours passed and she sent me another message. She said the work I revised for her returned with review and it wasn’t very good; her future in the company didn’t look too bright. She didn’t particularly meant to direct faults at me, but I got even more angry at her. I tried to hide it but other co-workers started to ask if I was alright and able to carry on my task. I ended my day trying to forget what happened and it wasn’t easy putting a smile while talking to the board members. I came back to the hotel, hoping she’d call and do what is proper. She didn’t. Now I’m back at home and trying to seek some comfort. I’m tired and disappointed at myself. I offered her sincererity and honesty, and I believed she was worth pursuing. I’ve been rejected before, but at least other girls allowed me to walk away with pride and dignity. She deprived me of those. I treated everyone with respect and she didn’t give me any. I am ashamed of myself as I face new year. I should say that I’m angry at myself more so than at her. Should I be angry?** I know I haven’t made much presence at this forum, but I’m just seeking some opinions from the members (both ladies and men). I know I’ve done many wrongs by acting on my emotions, but would you have treated a guy like me the way she did? I’m so frustrated and dumbfounded. Thank you in advance for those of you read my post. I hope everyone have a Happy Holiday. ---
**Author:** ![sheba](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sheba/32/1664_2.png) [@sheba](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sheba)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/2 "2007-12-21T02:35:43Z")
Eslite, I’m so sorry. Developing an intimate relationship with a co-worker can be particularly delicate. I agree that she did not handle things very well or as a true friend should have. I would like to say that, when I was her age, there were many good men that I did not treat with the respect they deserved. I would love to find each of them and offer my aplogies. After she’s grown, she may wish to do the same… Relationships are most difficult in that it’s not hard to find good people, so much… but it’s difficult to find good people, with whom we share mutual attraction who want the same things at that specific time. I don’t think you were wrong to get your heart involved.. afterall, who can truly control matters of the heart, eh? But perhaps, it’s best to be the friend that she desires, providing she can offer a friendship that fulfills you, as well. Continue dating.. and either someone better will come along.. someone who appreciates you.. who will be your friend and lover. Or she’ll come to her senses when someone not necessarily better comes along and she fears that you’ve moved on… If you decide to continue a friendship with her, I do think it important to share with her your upset at the way she handled you. After all, friends are honest with one another. Get it off your chest, forgive her, and let it go. Then you will be free to continue a friendship.. if that’s what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/3 "2007-12-21T05:35:15Z")
Hey Eslite, I have some work I can’t get done. I’m cute. Would you help me too? I can email it to you right now! Oh and also, maybe you could lend me $500? I want to get a wii and some games for it. _Sniff sniff_ Pouty round baby puppy eyes. Trembly lower lip. _Blub blub blub_ I’m so saaaad wiffout my wiiiiiiiiii! _sniffle sniffle sniffle_ Pleeease??? Pwetty pwease? You’ll be like my hero and best friend for ever!! C’mon Eslite… Kidding. She’s dating another guy and she turned you down when you told her how you felt. Nothing to be angry about, just move on. No one forced you to be so nice to her. However, I think you’ve solved plenty of her issues, so your work here is done. There are plenty of other people and projects – and _girls_ – that need your attention and energy. Now about that $500 you promised me… _blink blink_ ---
**Author:** ![LaurieNY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@LaurieNY](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LaurieNY)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/4 "2007-12-21T05:47:11Z")
I’m with Kitten. Also, if you want my honest opinion, you need to grow up a little. She was in no way obligated to give you a phone call. A lot of women, myself included, are old-fashioned when it comes to calling men. Women are _ **never** _ obligated to call you if you are not in an official relationship. Even if you are, they are rarely obligated to call you. The only times I would think there would be an obligation would be 1. if you need time-sensitive information (an RSVP, perhaps), 2. you haven’t spoken for a significant amount of time and it’s been impossible to get ahold of her, 3. if you asked her to let you know she got home safely, 4. to break up with you. That said, she sounds like a bit of a snot, and she should have been more straight with you about why she wasn’t calling (because she may feel it’s inappropriate for a man to keep expecting a woman to call him, which it kind of is). But you knew she was acting like a snot and you continued to pursue her. More importantly, there is no moral reason/obligation why she should not date the person she wants to date, and she had no obligation to call you and tell you she was doing so. You are not her gatekeeper. ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 8:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/5 "2007-12-21T08:13:54Z")
Eslite, you seem like a nice guy. I’m sorry, but this girlyQ has been workin’ you. You helped her out with work and her language problems…she was hurt in an accident, more than once, and you cared for her…then after all you’ve done for her… she didn’t even have the decency to tell you she moved…please. I’m not saying she doesn’t like you…we know she certainly likes all you do for her… yeah, yeah, she didn’t ask for your help…but you saw she needed it and voluntarily took her under your wing…and from what you say, expected nothing but decent treatment in return…when your feelings changed and you grew interested in her …romantically…she told you she wasn’t interested in you in “that way”…but you hoped, because she kept accepting your help…and the upshot?..she found someone else. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again…when you’re headed, too long, down a one way street… it’s time to stop, backup, or turn the f\*\*k around…BEFORE you hit the dead end. Sweetheart, you’re too good for this user! > [@Eslite119](#): > > I’m so frustrated and dumbfounded. Move on to a woman who appreciates you and the wonderful things you do for her…you’re wasting your time here…but, you already figured that out. Get over your frustration,Eslite…and be smarter next time. 😉 Bella ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 10:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/6 "2007-12-21T10:40:56Z")
Eslite, The ladies pretty much covered it. I would just like to add my opinion. This girl is away from her home country, She was alone and scared and trying to do her best to get ahead. She needed a friend and you took that roll. When you asked for more then friendship she told you she was not interested in a relationship right now and maybe she should have been more clear but I think she was trying to hold on to your friendship and not hurt your feelings. I think she didnt call you, not because she has phone issues but because she didnt want to indicate to you that this was anything more then friendship. She was setting boundries. I know its hard for alot of guys to make a move and get rejected. Its not easy for the women to reject especially when its someone you care about as a friend. Some woemn can do it well and some cant. Being “friends” with a male is not always easy for a women. Sexual and romantic thoughts tend to get in the way at times which I think is why alot of people say that men and women cant just be friends. Of course those who know me well here know my best friend is male and we are able to keep that friendship because of the boundries we have both established. I can honestly say I love him and I know he loves me but we dont cross those friendship boundries because we value each others friendship to much. I dont think you should be ashamed or angry. She set those boundries and you excepted them all along. You also helped a person during a tough period in there lives without being asked to or expecting anything back in the beginning. Thats a character trait you should be proud of. This girl was only destined to be your friend. The girl who was destined to be more is still out there waiting for you. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/7 "2007-12-21T13:27:55Z")
I saw this yesterday and waited to post until some of the ladies responded. Here’s my take. You shouldn’t be doing her work for her. Nothing wrong with giving her a little critique and letting her do her rework, but doing it yourself (at her beck and call) doesn’t seem good for your self-respect, or hers. I think a lot of guys get caught up in trying to be of service, and then feeling that the lady served owes them a debt. Also doing things like gifts and favors that exceed the social norms fall into this same coercive category of behavior. Unfortunately, as you found out, such strategies rarely work. It might be interesting for you to find out what kind of guy she’s dating. ---
**Author:** ![Eslite119](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eslite119/32/176_2.png) [@Eslite119](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eslite119)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/8 "2007-12-21T15:45:43Z")
Thank you to everyone who responded. **Sheba** : Thank you and your words gave me comfort. I honestly think that you are a very kind individual. "_If you decide to continue a friendship with her, I do think it important to share with her your upset at the way she handled you. After all, friends are honest with one another. Get it off your chest, forgive her, and let it go. Then you will be free to continue a friendship.. if that’s what you want."_ I don’t think I would like to continue my friendship with her. I will forgive her and understand that it’s her character. However, thinking retrospectively her actions were incongruent with her words when she said I was her good friend. If she was little more sincere, than I think we could’ve been friends and ended certain things in good terms, like my other exs. **Kitten** : $500? Perhaps next Christmas 😃. “_No one forced you to be so nice to her_.” You’re right, no one except myself. I could’ve told her “solve your own problem” and yet I didn’t. I should’ve been more assertive. **LaurieNY:** Honest and the wake-up call I was looking for. Thank you. "\*Also, if you want my honest opinion, you need to grow up a little. She was in no way obligated to give you a phone call. A lot of women, myself included, are old-fashioned when it comes to calling men. Women are **never** obligated to call you if you are not in an official relationship. \* _More importantly, there is no moral reason/obligation why she should not date the person she wants to date, and she had no obligation to call you and tell you she was doing so. You are not her gatekeeper_." I never said she was obligated to call me. I’m upset and disappointed that she chose to relay the message in an unprofessional manner. She could’ve easily waited until our downtime in the evening and contacted me by then. Either she tried to start something (she clearly being aware of how it’d effect me) or just immature to think things all the way through. You’re right, she does not have any moral obligations to why she should not date the person she wants to date. I made this clear with her and I told her it’d be perfectly okay with me whether she chooses me or some other guy; just told her to be honest. 3 weeks ago I suspected something, so we had a conversation. She told me she was not interested in anyone and have no desire of dating. I turned away temporarily from her for 3 weeks. No matter who approached and even when there was an attraction, she kept her committment for almost 2 years. One can wonder what might’ve happened during that 3 weeks, while she was begging for my attention. **Bella** : Your words were encouraging. "\*I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again…when you’re headed, too long, down a one way street… it’s time to stop, backup, or turn the f\*\*k around…BEFORE you hit the dead end. \* _Get over your frustration,Eslite…and be smarter next time_." I don’t think all is lost, since I walk away with valuable lessons. My new year resolution is to be smarter and you hit that right on. Happy Holidays. **Tisha** : You know, I was actually eager to hear your response as I find that you’re very knowledgeable in many ways. What you said was very accurate. Thank you. "_This girl is away from her home country, She was alone and scared and trying to do her best to get ahead. She needed a friend and you took that roll. When you asked for more then friendship she told you she was not interested in a relationship right now and maybe she should have been more clear but I think she was trying to hold on to your friendship and not hurt your feelings. I think she didnt call you, not because she has phone issues but because she didnt want to indicate to you that this was anything more then friendship. She was setting boundries."_ I ask myself why. What you said above was exactly what my head was telling me all along (were you in my head). I was so sure with my over-confidence that I thought I could turn things around. But as you know, I did things that I shouldn’t have done and one thing led to another and brought me here. I should’ve listened to my head as I always did, but I let my emotions get the best of me. Thanks to all the ladies for honest opinions. The wake-up calls and slap on the face was what I was looking for to make myself to get over it and move on, fast. ---
**Author:** ![Eslite119](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eslite119/32/176_2.png) [@Eslite119](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eslite119)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/9 "2007-12-21T16:13:24Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > I saw this yesterday and waited to post until some of the ladies responded. > > Here’s my take. > > You shouldn’t be doing her work for her. Nothing wrong with giving her a little critique and letting her do her rework, but doing it yourself (at her beck and call) doesn’t seem good for your self-respect, or hers. > > I think a lot of guys get caught up in trying to be of service, and then feeling that the lady served owes them a debt. Also doing things like gifts and favors that exceed the social norms fall into this same coercive category of behavior. Unfortunately, as you found out, such strategies rarely work. > > It might be interesting for you to find out what kind of guy she’s dating. I know I know, I shouldn’t have done what I’ve done. It was suppose to be a small critique and I could’ve easily refused. I did and small critique eventually led to major overhaul as I had major concerns for her while reviewing her work. As noted above, as time passes her future in the company does not look too bright. Not as in looking for something in return, but as a friend I did not want to see her fail. You’re right, it wasn’t good for my self-respect and as I was working I heard my head screaming “You’re pathetic.” Initially, my kind gesture to my co-worker became a routine. At one point small favors meant a lot to her, but she got comfortable to the point where she started taking me for granted where big things seemed insignificant. Perhaps I had the feeling that she owed me and it was that I just wanted her to treat me with proper respect. I guess I was expecting too much. Funny thing is, I’m really not interested in what type of guy she is dating and not out of jealousy. I’m not even sure if she is dating. This led me to compare my other relationships, when I broke up with a girl that I cared about so much, I was actually curious for the type of guy she started seeing afterwards (and got engaged). For this girl, however, I somehow don’t care for her anymore. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/10 "2007-12-21T20:58:57Z")
Sounds like you are better off without her… I feel for you - think many guys have this kind of experience at some stage in their lives. You might read up on and study the nature of attraction - it just doesn’t work the way one thinks it should. By the way I have done lots of favours for different people in my life for different reasons but if I think back over them not once has a relationship or fling begun that way… ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/11 "2007-12-21T21:45:42Z")
Without going into any specifics I have to say that what Elsite has experienced is all too common and I have seen and faced too many times while growing up. But I see the opposite too quite a bit among my social circle where the guy goes all out helping a girl and making her feel comfortable in new surroundings, helping her look for a place to stay, buy groceries etc. and she ends up falling for him and they start dating. It is such a common occurence in my campus that now among groups of international students guys who are single register to welcome new female students of their choice and more often than not end up together with them. ---
**Author:** ![Felicity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@Felicity](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Felicity)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/12 "2007-12-21T23:42:03Z")
Hey - shes careless and shes thoughtless (Car accidents are often nature’s way of pointing this out). She does not deserve you till she grows up. She is also very young. Personally, I wasn’t fit to be out in public till I was 35 🙂 Being a nice person is never a mistake though. 9 times out of 10 you barely even get a thank you, but one time in ten you get repaid x100. You are just more evolved than she is, and it is in the nature of highly evolved people to help the weak. F. ---
**Author:** ![sheba](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sheba/32/1664_2.png) [@sheba](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sheba)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/13 "2007-12-22T01:05:05Z")
> [@Felicity](#): > > Hey - shes careless and shes thoughtless (Car accidents are often nature’s way of pointing this out). She does not deserve you till she grows up. > > She is also very young. Personally, I wasn’t fit to be out in public till I was 35 🙂 > > Being a nice person is never a mistake though. > > 9 times out of 10 you barely even get a thank you, but one time in ten you get repaid x100. > > You are just more evolved than she is, and it is in the nature of highly evolved people to help the weak. > > F. Awww man! Wanted to rep your post, Felicity.. but it would appear I gotta spread the love… Great post 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eslite119](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eslite119/32/176_2.png) [@Eslite119](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eslite119)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/14 "2007-12-22T01:19:46Z")
PheroQuirk: You mean like the ones written by Mystery, Neil Strauss, and David Deangelo? They were very interesting (I actually have an audio book to listen during flights). I’m not really into being a PUA and try to hit on many girls as possible, but I got some great pointers from them. Especially the point about distinction between attraction and what women wants comes to mind. Frankly, I used the tips from the books on other girls except this one; let’s just say I didn’t want to “risk it.” As you see from my long post, I probably did at least 10 things what the books tell you not to do. NBully: I guess there is a hope for nice guys sometimes 😃 . Felicity: Yea, unfortunately both accidents were her faults (people, please do not drive while talking on the cell phone). This wasn’t a pleasant experience for me, but I won’t let this keep me from helping out others. ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/15 "2007-12-22T02:13:44Z")
Eslite, GWTW and Sheba…Thanks! 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mewgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@mewgirl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mewgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 9:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/16 "2007-12-23T09:15:30Z")
You should definitely be angry when she starts ignoring you because you told her you love her. As long as you are not trying to ask her to be with you, you should have the same relationship you had beforehand. > [@](#): > > But one morning, she was little cranky and I asked her how she was doing. She gave me a “screw you” type of look and walked away. Naturally I was upset as I was insulted, and later in the day she came up to me as if nothing happened, which angered me even more. That you should not be angry about, you should be understanding, and when she acts like nothing happened, most likely, nothing did happen. > [@](#): > > **However and moment later, I started to get angry at the fact about the method she used to relay this type of message. She clearly knew I was working (she sent the message via corporate email during the morning) and didn’t have a descency of waiting until the evening and at least calling me to tell me.** First of all you already said she has a problem with calling people. You know this abut her, and have never had a probelm with it before, so why are you going to get mad at her for it now? She told you what is going on, as soon as it happened, just like you asked. Knowing you are at work, she knew you would check your e-mail, so she knew you would get the message. All of this is good. You may have preferred her to call you but if you have never worried before about how she does not like to call people then getting upset about it now is… something similar to hypocritical. > [@](#): > > Plus, she said she was too sick and tired to spend 5 minutes of her time to call me and yet she had plenty of time to date another guy? Um… last I checked, when you see someone it is in person, you do not even have to talk, and when her boyfriend goes home maybe she is tired. She will call you tomorrow, but then her boyfriend came over. If they are not living together then calling you while they are together would just be stupid (unless she knows and informs him that there are only very limited hours when you are available to call). You do not have to have “extra time” to love someone, but if you are clsoe friends your conversations probably also last a while, and she did not ignore your phone calls either. > [@](#): > > So I wasn’t even a friend to her, and I’m sure a homeless dog would get a better treatment than this. Again, she did not ignore you, I have not seen anything at all to say she was treating you badly except for what you mentioned happened after you first told her you love her. > [@](#): > > She said the work I revised for her returned with review and it wasn’t very good; her future in the company didn’t look too bright. She didn’t particularly meant to direct faults at me, but I got even more angry at her. Now you are angry at her for telling you about a major event that happened in her life? Isn’t that a good thing for her to do? > [@](#): > > I came back to the hotel, hoping she’d call and do what is proper. If any of youe e-mails that day asked her to call you, you haven’t mentioned it here. > [@](#): > > I’ve been rejected before, but at least other girls allowed me to walk away with pride and dignity. She deprived me of those. I treated everyone with respect and she didn’t give me any. The only time anything like this happened was when you first told her you love her before she moved out-of-state. So if you felt this way then, at the only time when anything that could be said to have “stripped you of your diginity” happened, then why did you continued to speak with her after that? ---
**Author:** ![Eslite119](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eslite119/32/176_2.png) [@Eslite119](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eslite119)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/17 "2007-12-23T20:52:34Z")
Mewgirl, I think you make some good points and some points you missed. First, her giving me the look and blowing me off during that morning, I think my anger on that matter is justified. I asked her how she was doing in good faith and as a good friend, and she did not respond in the right way. Everyone has a bad day and I accept that, but if you think you made a mistake then I think it is right for you to at least apologize. Indeed, she made it sound like as if nothing ever happened and approached in “what’s your problem” attitude. Well, something might not have happened to her, but the treatment I received was disappointing to say the least. As for sending me the email, I said it before I’m not mad about she notifying me or using the email as a medium to communicate. However, with the history we had and how I have treated her, I think she could’ve been more considerate when delivering the message and think about what type of impact it might have (am I asking too much?). The message she sent is no doubt a devastating news for me; if I didn’t care for her deeply, then it wouldn’t have mattered at all. Did I prefer her to call me? Absolutely, even if it is a bad news I still would prefer her to call. Email is one, but not the only method that she can reach me, and I was very busy so email was not the best choice to reach me during that time anyway. Phone call was the surest method of reaching me and she knew this as I ALWAYS return her call. You labeled me as a hypocrite, and I never said I didn’t have problems with her issues with calling people. I told her before in a polite way that she needs to properly communicate (i.e. call) when necessary. She did call me several times before, but only when she needed me. When things go bad, I’m the person to rely on and when things are good I’m almost non-existent. To me, this is little sad and I came to realize this as I was evaluating myself recently. > [@mewgirl](#): > > Um… last I checked, when you see someone it is in person, you do not even have to talk, and when her boyfriend goes home maybe she is tired. She will call you tomorrow, but then her boyfriend came over. If they are not living together then calling you while they are together would just be stupid (unless she knows and informs him that there are only very limited hours when you are available to call). You do not have to have “extra time” to love someone, but if you are clsoe friends your conversations probably also last a while, and she did not ignore your phone calls either. Would you do this to your “close friend”? Or would you find a better way of dealing with this type of situation? She can go date other person and I’m sure he’s someone very special, but she couldn’t find ANYTIME during that 3 weeks just to talk to me? She couldn’t wait another five hours and contact (not just phone call) me during our downtime? These were the questions that went through my mind when I received that message. > [@mewgirl](#): > > Now you are angry at her for telling you about a major event that happened in her life? Isn’t that a good thing for her to do? We see another pattern here. When things go bad, she seeks me out first and lays her frustration on me. Why can’t she also seek me when things are nice? I’d be happy to celebrate with her. I gotta say this message came to me at a very bad time. She gave me a bad news that I was trying to handle and several hours later she gives me another one. Like I said, she could’ve been more considerate of other people’s feelings. > [@mewgirl](#): > > The only time anything like this happened was when you first told her you love her before she moved out-of-state. So if you felt this way then, at the only time when anything that could be said to have “stripped you of your diginity” happened, then why did you continued to speak with her after that? This was my mistake, and yes I shouldn’t have continued on from that point forward. There are a lot of should and shouldn’t here. There are some things I still question myself for. Overall, when it came between me and her, I always focused on her first. That day when I received the message, I felt that surge of anger. I wanted to figure out exactly why and it is the reason why I resorted to talking to people, including this forum. I thought it was worth exploring and ask myself why I felt this way. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/18 "2007-12-23T21:21:31Z")
> [@Eslite119](#): > > … That day when I received the message, I felt that surge of anger. I wanted to figure out exactly why and it is the reason why I resorted to talking to people, including this forum. I thought it was worth exploring and ask myself why I felt this way. Many people have found the first 3 of the 4 noble truths of Buddhism to address that question. see [Four Noble Truths - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_truths) . They are often a philosophical starting point, and the answer can be as profound or as shallow as you wish. I’m not a member of any religion, or wedded to any particular named philosophy myself, and not trying to push any. ---
**Author:** ![mark-in-dallas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mark-in-dallas/32/860_2.png) [@mark-in-dallas](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mark-in-dallas)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/19 "2007-12-23T21:57:33Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > You might read up on and study the nature of attraction - it just doesn’t work the way one thinks it should. > > By the way I have done lots of favours for different people in my life for different reasons but if I think back over them not once has a relationship or fling begun that way… > [@Eslite119](#): > > Especially the point about distinction between attraction and what women wants comes to mind. Frankly, I used the tips from the books on other girls except this one; let’s just say I didn’t want to “risk it.” And there’s the answers to everything you asked. But, you knew the answers all along. You ignored the tips and lessons learned in readings and tapes which you previously used and had proven to be successful, fearing that in this instance they would fail. And, you mistakenly believed that your niceity should or would transform into attraction and obligation on her part. You followed your heart instead of your head, and when she didn’t respond by giving you her heart, I’m willing to bet dimes to dollars that you tried even harder, thinking that if you could just make her see how much you cared, that she would love you back. I think that most of us guys in the forum have walked in your shoes, and most of the ladies can recount guys that have tried to win their love in the same way. As David D says: “ATTRACTION ISN’T A CHOICE!”, its a gut feeling, and I cannot think of a single woman, EVER, that developed an attraction to me for being nice or doing things for her. If anything, i’s usually more of a turn off to women, and they see it as wimpy, needy behavior. And, a final disclaimer, so I don’t fall prey to Tisha and newgirls wrath for catagorizing everybody the same LOL: 😉 The above information is intended for informational purposes only, and is not intended to suggest that all men or women behave in the same way. Not all men are percieved as being wimpy for being nice, and some women may find this type of behavior attractive in men. But, far more often than not, they will NOT. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mewgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@mewgirl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mewgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636/20 "2007-12-23T22:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Mewgirl, I think you make some good points and some points you missed. First, her giving me the look and blowing me off during that morning, I think my anger on that matter is justified. I asked her how she was doing in good faith and as a good friend, and she did not respond in the right way. Everyone has a bad day and I accept that, but if you think you made a mistake then I think it is right for you to at least apologize. Indeed, she made it sound like as if nothing ever happened and approached in “what’s your problem” attitude. Well, something might not have happened to her, but the treatment I received was disappointing to say the least. I am not saying your anger there is not justified, but as a friend it would be much easier and much better to just understand such a thing. I would not say anything specific about an incident like that to someone unless they brought it up and told me they were hurt (in which case I would apologize and, if it was a close friend, tell them why I had been upset). I would probably not even remember it or think about it again. Since you were close friends at that time, I find it odd that you yourself would think about something so small more then two days or so later as well. > [@](#): > > As for sending me the email, I said it before I’m not mad about she notifying me or using the email as a medium to communicate. However, with the history we had and how I have treated her, I think she could’ve been more considerate when delivering the message and think about what type of impact it might have (am I asking too much?). Again, if it doesn’t bother you that she doesn’t like calling people normally, why should it bother you now? It was not an emergency, something you needed to know that specific INSTANT. As a matter of fact you even said you wish you hadn’t found out until later on that night. It is true there are some things that are better done over IMs, over the phone, or in person, but usually it is because either it is something that needs to be discussed right away, or maybe that same day if the person doesn’t check their e-mail every day, or because the person sending the message or arranging the discussion will be able to say it better in person. Maybe if the reciever needs to hear a specific tone of voice, of if the person arranging the discussion is hoping for some sort of physical contact, or maybe feel they need to make physical contact to prove their point. Some people prefer to apologize in person so that they can show with gestures how sorry they are. But the person on the recieving end of the apology has no reason for it to be in person, because if they don’t feel the person was apologetic enough it’s based on the tone the apology takes, whether through e-mail or not (this is an example, I know your situationw as not an apology). On the other hand, if the TONE of her e-mail was overly formal, did not recognize that you would be hurting, etc., then it would make more sense for you to be angry IMO. But an e-mail is just as personal as in person if you are typing in a personal way and would not have hyad physical intimacy in person. > [@](#): > > You labeled me as a hypocrite, and I never said I didn’t have problems with her issues with calling people. Hypocrite is not the correct word, but I could not think of a similar one that would actually apply. > [@](#): > > I told her before in a polite way that she needs to properly communicate (i.e. call) when necessary. She did call me several times before, but only when she needed me. If she needed you, it was probably something immediate. Do you feel that this news is something you needed to hear immediately and not a couple of hours later? If so, I can definitely see where your feelings are coming from. However there is also the fact that you CAN’T notify a person of a new boyfriend immediately, because it doesn’t exactly happen at any specific moment (unless this is just some random person she’s dating in which case I wouldn’t assume it to be all that hurtful). > [@](#): > > When things go bad, I’m the person to rely on and when things are good I’m almost non-existent. To me, this is little sad and I came to realize this as I was evaluating myself recently. I don’t see what that has to do with evaulationg YOURSELF. That sounds more like evaulating HER. If she does not support you back and does not talk to you when things are good, that is deifinitely a problem. Since I don’t know her, I don’t know if she is doing it on purpose, though the way she ignored you after you first told her how you feel is a good indicator that she may be. Eiother way though, have you told her that you feel this way? > [@](#): > > Would you do this to your “close friend”? Or would you find a better way of dealing with this type of situation? She can go date other person and I’m sure he’s someone very special, but she couldn’t find ANYTIME during that 3 weeks just to talk to me? 3 weeks? Only 3 weeks? I have had a few close friends that I was not in love with. Sometimes, these friends were in love with me. One friend lives in another state. Another friend I met in another state, then moved. Friend #2 considered me a close friend, though I did not really consider him a clsoe friend (at the time) because I did not get that “natural feeling” of closeness around him. However, my conversations with Friend #2 after I moved almost always revolved around me feeling upset. Sometimes he told me why he was upset, and since I didn’t care for him as much as he did for me (and therfore couldn’t say certain things you can say when you love someone a lot), I usually had no idea what to say to him to help him other then give practical suggestion when applicable. I felt guilty, but he did not mind at all. I now consider him a close friend, even though I still don’t feel that “feeling of closeness” when talking to him, I am completely honest about everything I feel and I trust him with everything I say. He still considers me a close friend as well. He has a cell phone, prepaid but still, and I am sure he can find a phone to use every once in a while that won’t cost him anything (especially when he’s at his mother’s who has free long distance also) (I don’t have his number 'cause it changed). He also visits his mother once a month or more where he has the ability to get on the internet if he wants to. Currently, he has not contacted me in 6 months. I would like to have talked to him, sure, but I am not really overly upset that he has not contacted me in so long. It bother me a slight bit every once in a while. But obviously you care more for this girl then I do for friend #2. So now I’m going to talk about friend #1. Friend #1 was, at the time, a very close friend of mine, who lives in another state. We talked on the phone a couple of times, but mostly over IMs. When my boyfriend came to visit from Waukegan (an hour away), he stayed at my house for two weeks (once he stayed for a month). I did not contact Friend #1 nor did he expect me to. He was not in love with me at the time though he thought he was in love with me for a time later on, but if my boyfriend was at my house while Friend #1 was in love with me, he strill wouldn’t have expected me to contact him furing that time. After all I should be spending as much time as possible with the guy I am with, while I have the oppurtunity. My current boyfriend lives closer to me, and when I was living with my dad he lives 9 houses down the block. However, we still only got to see each other around twice a week for no more then 5 hours each session (usually more like 5 hours one day and 1 - 2 hours the other day) at the time when we were able to see each other most often. Friend #2 once called while he was over, and I told him I’d call or IM him later. The only time I talked to someone else for an extended length of time while my boyfriend was over is when someone else who loves me called from jail. Even then my boyfriend felt ignored or something of the like while I was talking to him, however I do not agree with my boyfriend’s feelings on the matter. If he was not in jail, I would have told him I’d call him back after my boyfriend left. I would have actually done so as well, however I love him too. If the boyfriend I had from Waukegan had been able to come over every day and then leave, it is indeed liekly I would have gotten online for a while after he left on some days. But possible not, if we had had sex shortly before he left and I wanted to lay down or sleep, or if he left me feeling exceptionally happy. I do not know of your friend’s experiences with her boyfriend or how often she gets to see him, what time he comes over and what time he leaves, etc. So I, just like you, really have no idea if she actually had the oppurtunity to call you and spend a long time talking to you or not. I had one close friend who I would talk to on the phone for four hours every other day, for a time, and he lived near me. But that mainly happened because I was bored at school after everyone else had left. In my experience with ANYONE who lives out of state, 3 weeks is not very long of a time to not call someone, especially if you talk over IMs and/or e-mail as well. Of course, in this particular case, she had a boyfriend and you asked her to tell you. So she should have told you (whether through a phone call or an e-mail) as soon as possible. But, do you honestly have any idea how much she does or doesn’t care about you? She may have been somewhat afraid to tell you if she did not want to hurt you, thereby causing her delay. Not appropiate, but understandable. I have to say I am not completely defending her here… I dont know anything about her and for all I know she may very well have done these things on purpose. But they are things to think about, you know her better then I do. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/requesting-ladies-help-and-advice-should-i-be-angry/7636.md?page=2)