# roissy - some unwelcome truths **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [July 24, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233 "2008-07-24T23:29:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/1 "2008-07-24T23:29:59Z")
[Decivilizing: Human Nature Unleashed « Roissy in DC](http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/decivilizing-human-nature-unleashed/) [Why You Can’t Get Married, Pt. 1](http://therawness.com/why-you-cant-get-married-pt-1/) ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/2 "2008-07-26T20:28:14Z")
Interesting stuff PQ, any commentary? Personal opinions? Any reason this article came up, or you just found it interesting? ---
**Author:** ![copycat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/copycat/32/896_2.png) [@copycat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/copycat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/3 "2008-07-26T21:43:07Z")
PheroQuirk, Ah, well there it is! I’m 40, chubby, not especially pretty, and child-proof. I believe I’ll change my handle to “Spinster.” Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/4 "2008-07-27T16:04:57Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > Interesting stuff PQ, any commentary? Personal opinions? Any reason this article came up, or you just found it interesting? nothing in particular to add… roissy is somewhat obnoxious, but by exaggerating and simplifying his point he often does get it across more effectively. i’m generally interested in human dynamics, and i view him and the other pickup guys as scientists of the older school - experimenting, observing and reporting their results to a community (whereas today too much of the social science literature seems like theorizing disconnected from reality). i think zan et al are correct to think that the rise of mainstream interest in pickup reflects the devaluing of masculinity (and the rise of a certain kind of feminism that is disconnected from social and biological facts). it’s also been associated with an incredible boom in disposable incomes which means many people have recently been more able to focus on higher levels in the hierarchy of needs. i wonder though whether in a way whether the entry of pua culture into the mainstream (neil’s book, mystery’s show on mtv) represents a climax in this initial phase. regrettably, the outlook for the next fifteen years suggests that most of us are going to be grappling with much more basic needs. frittering away time and money in a superficial club scene is very entertainng, but likely will seem much less important as pressure on disposable incomes increases. higher taxes, higher energy and food prices but lower growth in wages. falling house and stock prices. there are cycles in many social phenomena - not just economic ones. some of them are quite regular and can be tracked back for centuries. one that is interesting in this context is a nine year cycle in church membership that seems to take effect across denominations and regions. these days for many people the church plays a smaller role in their lives than in times of old, but what this cycle really represents is a swing between materialism and community. the last turning point was 1999 (and do you remember the revulsion against yuppies post 1990), so one might expect a swing away from materialism in the next few years. (which fits with the economic outlook) so perhaps the next fifteen years or so will see an evolution in the pua culture and maybe a continued shift in focus from the tactics of club game to an exploration of masculinity and aspects of self-development. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/5 "2008-07-27T16:45:23Z")
one simple truth. the value of the provider role depends on the overall tone of the economic environment. when times are easy, and anyone with a pulse can get a job, a house and take care of their basic needs then the provider role will be deprecated. when times are challenging and sometimes it can be a struggle just to get by, society will tend to esteem the provider role more highly. ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/6 "2008-07-27T18:25:15Z")
Copycat, don’t worry. These documents are talking about high status people. Very few of us are of high status. We are just medium status and we attract similar people and don’t need to stress about any of it. Now if you wanted to marry a billionaire or a movie producer, sure it’d help to be an undereducated 19 year old Eastern European supermodel–and vice versa. 🙂 Kitten 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/roissy-some-unwelcome-truths/16233/7 "2008-07-27T19:36:04Z")
I was a little young to fully appreciate the revolt against yuppies in the early nineties, PQ. But it is interesting, probably, for those of you that have seen the full cycle before. I took particular interest in the articles and a couple of the follow up articles, because of my experience growing up. I’m nothing special, just another product of a divorced household. 😃 What I saw wasn’t really so much about finding a marriage prospect, but about the ‘risks’ of getting married for a man. My mother didn’t actually persue any legal action. My parents settled their divorce outside of court, and with minimal use of lawyers. They did it the old fashioned way, just talking it out over several years. For some reason, they (as mentioned in the articles) felt that the institution of ‘marriage’ was important enough that they wouldn’t actually divorce until I was 18. But also, I suspect that part of the reason was because my father didn’t want to deal with custody issues, as he would be moving back to Korea and..clearly..that would be a hard case, in the event custody came up as an issue. Either way, my dad was not legally obliged to pay alimony and child support, but that’s essentially what he did, and probably to a greater degree than most divorces. Not necessarily in terms of extravagant amounts, but just in that my mother lives extremely comfortably with his financial support. Without him, she would have been broke years ago. I didn’t know I could form an opinion, or even if I should have, in my youth, such as this, but I feel that the fact that my mother felt it appropriate to take alimony and child support, and get engaged to another guy, while still technically married, was…inappropriate at best. Talk about getting your cake and eating it too. I’m not surprised that she’s been having relationship issues again. My mother is not an extreme case, but certainly not your average case either. She still did maintain some sense of familial responsibility which I do respect her for, but I definitely felt the absence of my father in my formative years, now, more than ever. My father has shared with me, his experiences, which I admit was kinda strange, considering it was more like a recap of the past decade that I just wasn’t aware of at the time, and stated that he wouldn’t get married again. Not only due to his age, but he doesn’t see a point to it anymore. He’s financially well off now, he’s got a gf that loves him, and his boy’s all grown up. Why take the risk again? It doesn’t stop him from supporting her, she’s got her own apartment, in her own name, etc.. What’s hers is hers, and what’s his is his. I felt that a couple of the linked articles were also worth reading, there is one article in particular that caught my attention. It was about the relationship between young male violence and the absence of their fathers. Apparently, boys without father figures tend to performance worse in statistics like education, drug usage..overall rebellion against mothers/authority, etc..) All of which, looking back, I am guilty of. If I can help it, my kids are growing up with both parents, present, active, and clearheaded. I can only hope it works out so well. 🙂 D4, I don’t know if you happened across this thread or not, but if you do, I wonder if you have any commentary..considering the stage of life you’re going through right now.