# Ross Jeffries, Don Steele: Both in news over Gym Murders **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [August 6, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359 "2009-08-06T17:17:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/1 "2009-08-06T17:17:55Z")
[New York - Runnin’ Scared - Pittsburgh Shooter George Sodini and his “Dating Young Women” Guru: R. Don Steele](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/08/pittsburgh_shoo.php) ---
**Author:** ![castlerock](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/castlerock/32/1503_2.png) [@castlerock](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/castlerock)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/2 "2009-08-07T00:29:41Z")
that guy had a few screws loose and his problem wasn’t just about getting women ---
**Author:** ![Coleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@Coleman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Coleman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/3 "2009-08-07T07:18:12Z")
George Sodini The problems are probably more than getting women but the problem could have stemmed from not getting women. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/4 "2009-08-07T08:17:34Z")
never heard of steele but i tried several of jeffries products, spent hundreds, didn’t really get very far. anybody have any experience with jeffries stuff? ---
**Author:** ![castlerock](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/castlerock/32/1503_2.png) [@castlerock](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/castlerock)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/5 "2009-08-07T14:38:33Z")
> [@meow333x](#): > > never heard of steele but i tried several of jeffries products, spent hundreds, didn’t really get very far. anybody have any experience with jeffries stuff? i’ve had good results and others too ---
**Author:** ![tezza23](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tezza23/32/1375_2.png) [@tezza23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tezza23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/6 "2009-08-08T16:17:26Z")
David DeAngelo did an interview with R. Don Steele. Steele seemed to be mostly about assertiveness training. RJ… He uses NLP and teaches it. I’ve heard criticisms from a pickup trainer I respect (Matt K. with DiCarlo Drills) that few people get results using only Speed Seduction techniques. Don’t have enough personal experience to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Holmes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/holmes/32/2128_2.png) [@Holmes](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Holmes)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/7 "2009-08-08T17:09:24Z")
He more than likely had a touch of something like Asperger’s, which would have made the likelihood of attracting all but the most repulsive of the opposite sex pretty much an impossibility. ---
**Author:** ![snakeeyesontheparadise](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/snakeeyesontheparadise/32/791_2.png) [@snakeeyesontheparadise](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/snakeeyesontheparadise)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/8 "2009-08-09T03:59:51Z")
I feel bad about this whole thing and how badly it reflects on society at large and what it has now come to. Not to say how badly now it reflects on the whole pick-up industry. I can sympathise for everyone involved in this terrible incident - from the killer, to the victims, to all their family and friends. While I don’t condone what the guy did, I do feel sorry for him and guys in his situation where help is beyond reach. I equally feel for the victims, including the killer, and all their families. ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/9 "2009-08-11T06:37:40Z")
It was kind of eerie reading this guy’s diary. I could relate to so much he said. Relax, folks, I’m not gonna go off like that!! But there have been times in my life when I felt that same sense of alienation and resentment. I sometimes wonder why this kind of thing doesn’t happen more often in our society. Without talking to the man face-to-face (no longer and option), it is hard to know if Holmes was right that he had Asperger’s or something. He held down a decent job and saved a quarter million dollars. He wasn’t completely outta touch with reality. Too bad he didn’t have any closer friends. Too bad he didn’t just hire himself a pretty young escort. There are a lot of depressed men who couldn’t afford that. Someone is gonna tell me that it isn’t the same when you pay for it, but it sure beats the hell outta going on a killing spree! Human touch can drain the rage. I have read and re-read some of R. Don Steele’s books. _Younger Women_ volumes one and two are both good and so is his _Body Language_ book. Steele isn’t my favorite PUA but I learned things from him. I do, however, pick up a certain hostility from Steele. More than once it has rubbed off on me and done more harm than good. That is why I like some of the other PUAs better. The 150 page _Body Language_ book may be his best work. All men so far. I wish a woman would comment on this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Jedi\_Nights](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jedi_nights/32/346_2.png) [@Jedi\_Nights](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jedi_Nights)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/10 "2009-08-11T18:01:42Z")
> [@snakeeyesontheparadise](#): > > … Not to say how badly now it reflects on the whole pick-up industry… The guy wasn’t getting any, therefore he wouldn’t qualify as a PUA. or He wasn’t a PUA or he would have been getting some. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/11 "2009-08-12T00:01:39Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > It was kind of eerie reading this guy’s diary. I could relate to so much he said. Relax, folks, I’m not gonna go off like that!! But there have been times in my life when I felt that same sense of alienation and resentment. I sometimes wonder why this kind of thing doesn’t happen more often in our society. > > Without talking to the man face-to-face (no longer and option), it is hard to know if Holmes was right that he had Asperger’s or something. He held down a decent job and saved a quarter million dollars. He wasn’t completely outta touch with reality. Too bad he didn’t have any closer friends. Too bad he didn’t just hire himself a pretty young escort. There are a lot of depressed men who couldn’t afford that. Someone is gonna tell me that it isn’t the same when you pay for it, but it sure beats the hell outta going on a killing spree! Human touch can drain the rage. > > I have read and re-read some of R. Don Steele’s books. _Younger Women_ volumes one and two are both good and so is his _Body Language_ book. Steele isn’t my favorite PUA but I learned things from him. I do, however, pick up a certain hostility from Steele. More than once it has rubbed off on me and done more harm than good. That is why I like some of the other PUAs better. The 150 page _Body Language_ book may be his best work. > > All men so far. I wish a woman would comment on this thread… i agree with you…if he had that kind of money why didn’t he just get hookers instead. he had some real issues man. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/12 "2009-08-12T00:29:33Z")
[FYI #2: George Sodini Was Not A Pickup Artist Roissy in DC](http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/fyi-2-george-sodini-was-not-a-pickup-artist/) > [@Roissy](#): > > George Sodini was not a PUA. He went to an R. Don Steele seminar and sat in the audience with a bunch of other losers in love. Attending a pickup workshop and sitting in the audience listening to R. Don Steele for a few hours does not make one a pickup artist, nor does it make one a murderer. Becoming a pickup artist requires months of learning and real world practice to see consistently positive results. We have no evidence that Sodini did either. [George Sodini Was At A Seduction Seminar Roissy in DC](http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/george-sodini-was-at-a-seduction-seminar/) > [@Roissy](#): > > I believe that genetic predisposition plays a large role in shaping our personalities and fate in life, and in limiting what we can achieve. At least, it plays a much larger role than what the current prevailing mis-wisdom would have you believe. This is why I am not a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian. However, neither am I a determinist. If genetic determinism were the be-all and end-all of human existence, then game would not work at all. You’d either “have the knack”, or you wouldn’t. But years of success with game by thousands of men of varying genetic blessings has proven that game is teachable, it is learn-able, and it will improve the love lives of, and the quality of women available to, the majority of men who make a serious effort to understand game and the nature of women. > > There will always be those wretched omega outliers, those psychologically stripped betas, and those congenitally desperate losers in life who will not benefit from game. These pitiable shadows of men in our midst serve to remind us of the cruel indifference of the natural world, and the ultimate pointlessness of everything we do. And, yes, what this means is that some men, because of their inherent natural gifts, will find success with game sooner, and easier, than other men. > > But does it follow from such a truth that game is a Blank Slatist wolf in womanizer’s clothing? Should we instead tell the left side of the desireability bell curve to hang up their cleats and go home to rot until the end of their days? No. Tell them the truth: Game will help you find sex and love. It won’t help you as much as, or as effortlessly as, better looking men, or richer men, or smarter men, or more charming men, or more adaptable men, but it will help. And that is the choice before you: To learn the art of seduction and at least give yourself a fighting chance to score more often and with women better looking and more personable than what you are accustomed to scoring, or to give up all hope and masturbate your life away to the gloomy flicker of an LCD while your fat cow American wife thrashes you to within an inch of your pride. ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/13 "2009-08-13T05:14:37Z")
It wasn’t that long ago that people knew their neighbors. People went to church on Sunday. Men joined the Freemasons or the Knights of Columbus and women joined the Women’s Club. I don’t want to overly romanticize the past. They had different problems back then, but it was more difficult to be left alone, looping through unrealistic feelings of desperation, failure and loathing. The things that kept us linked to the community, from Sunday school to fraternal organizations, have gone out of style. It is easy to fall into a routine where the only folks we talk to are so similar to ourselves and constrained by political correctness that we fail to get the perspective we need when we are just plain frustrated and stuck. George Sodini apparently had no one to turn to but the PUA community and that left him feeling even more of an angry failure. There is a long discussion on Roissy about the value of the PUA community. If this man had successfully learned some game this disaster might have been avoided. I tend to agree with that. Whatever helps the sexes to be less estranged and more attracted to each other is something I am in favor of. Including [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), of course! But that still leaves the problem of alienation from the human community. To keep our lives in perspective we need contact with other humans who are different from us, opposite sex, different generations, much richer or poorer, and so forth. Without this we lose our place, our sense of value and belonging. But nobody wants to be bothered. It is easier to call someone a stalker or a weirdo than to listen to what he has to say. And we all lose. We are more ignorant than we know. There are an awful lot of posts on other message boards. Here is one that sticks in my mind from [another forum](http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/full_text_of_gym_killers_blog_183111.htm?&page=0). Cheryl T. wrote: > [@](#): > > I once worked with someone who had similar beliefs. We recognized this persons COMPLETE lack of self-esteem early. Neither I nor my office mates would allow him to isolate himself. We SMOTHERED him with (purely professional) affection & attention. > > I admit our intentions were not entirely geared toward making him happy. Honestly, we didn’t want him to go “postal” on us! We actually feared him because we knew nothing about him. > > After several weeks of including this person in everything we did, he finally blossomed and became a true team player! He went on to become one of the most successful & indispensable members of our firm! He is also a happily married man, now. ---
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/14 "2009-08-13T13:19:48Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > It wasn’t that long ago that people knew their neighbors. People went to church on Sunday. Men joined the Freemasons or the Knights of Columbus and women joined the Women’s Club. I don’t want to overly romanticize the past. They had different problems back then, but it was more difficult to be left alone, looping through unrealistic feelings of desperation, failure and loathing. The things that kept us linked to the community, from Sunday school to fraternal organizations, have gone out of style. It is easy to fall into a routine where the only folks we talk to are so similar to ourselves and constrained by political correctness that we fail to get the perspective we need when we are just plain frustrated and stuck. George Sodini apparently had no one to turn to but the PUA community and that left him feeling even more of an angry failure. There is a long discussion on Roissy about the value of the PUA community. If this man had successfully learned some game this disaster might have been avoided. I tend to agree with that. Whatever helps the sexes to be less estranged and more attracted to each other is something I am in favor of. Including pheromones, of course! But that still leaves the problem of alienation from the human community. To keep our lives in perspective we need contact with other humans who are different from us, opposite sex, different generations, much richer or poorer, and so forth. Without this we lose our place, our sense of value and belonging. But nobody wants to be bothered. It is easier to call someone a stalker or a weirdo than to listen to what he has to say. And we all lose. We are more ignorant than we know. > > There are an awful lot of posts on other message boards. Here is one that sticks in my mind from [another forum](http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/full_text_of_gym_killers_blog_183111.htm?&page=0). > > Cheryl T. wrote: Any PUA material that doesn’t stress GETTING A LIFE AND HAVING SOMETHING TO BE PASSIONATE ABOUT isn’t really worth much in my opinion for the above reason You can’t pick up girls if that is all you do (no friends, no hobbies, no passions = no life) Sodini’s problem was not that he couldn’t get laid - getting laid probably wouldn’t have helped him (At least with an escort). Sodini’s problem was that of social isolation - he didn’t feel like he was part of the human race (part of any social community) and that makes a moment of anger a far, far more dangerous thing. I see no difference between Sodini and Columbine ---
**Author:** ![evolver](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/evolver/32/1896_2.png) [@evolver](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/evolver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ross-jeffries-don-steele-both-in-news-over-gym-murders/31359/15 "2009-08-25T17:09:50Z")
The slant in all the news articles is terrible… They make the murderer into the victim. Some of the articles are written so that you sympathize with the murderer. Bottom line: These murders were a HATE CRIME against women.