# Simulating the 'Cleopatra trick'... **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [April 3, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687 "2011-04-03T13:12:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/62 "2011-04-16T12:37:03Z")
> [@Taggle](#): > > The artical just stated that people found the wrong partners, because thay went for the wrong “smell”. That is my take on the research, at least in terms of the changes in women’s perception of attractiveness based on smelling genetically related/unrelated potential mates. Of course, there have been only a few studies, but if these results are real, then I think that birth control pills could really be screwing up relationships and even changing our evolutionary projectory. > [@](#): > > So if you change your own “smell” it means that the people attracted to your smell aren’t the right types. Well thats what I get out of it. But off course it’s not just a matter of smell, I’m just saying that not using BC because of this, should also mean not using mones, because it would interfer in the same way… No, these are two (actually many) different things going on here. Part of a person’s smell is apparently an individual signature that allows others to guage genetic relatedness. I don’t really think using pheromone or copulin products interferes with this. Birth control pills, on the other hand, have much more potential to contribute to a person choosing a “wrong” mate. Pheromones like androstenol, androstenone, etc. and copulins act at a more general level. They do not identify individuals. Everyone’s body produces them, at least a little bit. Adding some more artificially therefore serves to amplify a general attractiveness cue. Adding a spray of pheromone, or copulins, is more like wearing lipstick, or flattering clothing to make us more attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Txfox76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/txfox76/32/2307_2.png) [@Txfox76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Txfox76)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/63 "2011-04-16T16:35:21Z")
> [@Taggle](#): > > The artical just stated that people found the wrong partners, because thay went for the wrong “smell”. So if you change your own “smell” it means that the people attracted to your smell aren’t the right types. Well thats what I get out of it. But off course it’s not just a matter of smell, I’m just saying that not using BC because of this, should also mean not using mones, because it would interfer in the same way… ok two points. . . 1. Using pheromones is not changing our smell. . .. it is amplifying certain traces that are already there. 1. On the statement about having to use mones forever if you want to keep the person you first attracted with them, not so, familiarity takes over there. . and also I think this is where our old friend Congruence steps in as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/64 "2011-04-18T02:57:46Z")
If you can’t keep the rapport going without the mones, it probably isn’t worth being together anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Taggle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/taggle/32/1793_2.png) [@Taggle](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Taggle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/65 "2011-04-18T06:05:48Z")
> [@Txfox76](#): > > ok two points. . . 1. Using pheromones is not changing our smell. . .. it is amplifying certain traces that are already there. > > 1. On the statement about having to use mones forever if you want to keep the person you first attracted with them, not so, familiarity takes over there. . and also I think this is where our old friend Congruence steps in as well. Okay > [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > If you can’t keep the rapport going without the mones, it probably isn’t worth being together anyway. Oh I already know there might be things to go on between me target and I, I’m only gonna use IO and IH to get closer to him, so it’s not a concern for me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/66 "2011-04-18T11:03:53Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > _ **If you can’t keep the rapport going without the mones, it probably isn’t worth being together anyway.** _ When speaking of applying [synthetic pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) to enhance yourself, I agree. Nothing you spray on yourself can make that happen if the magic isn’t already there. 🙂 😉 Although copulins aren’t technically referred to as pheromones, we describe them as such. I think the point that we’re trying to make here concerning copulins is what happens when you disrupt/interfer with your natural copulins production by taking The Pill and to consider what the consequences of doing so could mean when choosing a mate. Any copulins that you find in a bottle that are promoted/sold/labeled “natural” are synthetically produced in a lab. The only truly natural copulins that you’re likely to have access to are your own, lol. 😉 I’ve lost count of the number of times, on these boards, we’ve been asked the question, “What are copulins?” Frankly, most women have no idea what they are and that they have them, let alone what they do and how important they are in the mating dance. Bella ---
**Author:** ![pheroUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@pheroUserName](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroUserName)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/67 "2011-04-21T01:11:40Z")
Well I received the vial of ‘Vulva’ the other day, and while I kinda want to wait to get the opinion of one of my male friends, I thought I would give you all a update. To recap - in my never ending quest to simulate ‘that smell’, I have tried the following products… – Mistress Pheromones - Nothing really there (had multiple people confirm), just your everyday plain old perfume. Maybe there is some ‘pheramone magic’ happening on a subconcious level, but I think that in order to really achieve the effect we are after here, that unmistakeable ‘crotch smell’ MUST be present. – EoW - Does a ok job of reproducing that rich ‘earthy’ smell. Also does a decent job of capturing that acidic vinegery smell (which turns out IS a sign of a normal/healthy vagina). Not perfect, but the closest to the real thing thus far. – Vulva - Very musky, almost overwhelmingly so. With only a hint of that ‘earthy/vinegery’ smell. I will try to get some second opinions, but I found it hard to get past the initial musky/urine smell (maybe I just got a bad batch…). I am very hesitant to try any of the more heavily scented/floral pheramone products, as I am afraid that the key ingredient we are after will be masked by traditional perfume (as was the case with Mistress Pheramones). I have plenty of great smelling sweet/floral perfumes already. There is one other product on my list to try. Something called “TRUEEssence”, which claims to be 100% copulins (google 100% copulins and you should find it). If anyone has any experience/info about it that would be great (save me the time/money if it is no good). …The quest continues… ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/68 "2011-04-21T01:36:27Z")
> [@](#): > > There is one other product on my list to try. Something called “TRUEEssence”, which claims to be 100% copulins (google 100% copulins and you should find it). If anyone has any experience/info about it that would be great (save me the time/money if it is no good). My friend Mare bought it to test. Smells like watered down EOW in both our opinions. She got mild results with it. Nothing like the results she gets from using EOW or the old batch we got from the unmentionable lab (which is closed). I haven’t tried it yet. You do know that mistress doesn’t copulins in it right ? > [@](#): > > I am very hesitant to try any of the more heavily scented/floral pheromone products Pheromones do not work by the scent. The scent carries the pheromone molecule so that people can inhale it. Doesn’t matter what it smells like they still enter the olfactory system and do the same thing whether they smell heavily floral or not. Your choice of scent is just personal preference. Some scents diffuse better then others and have better sillage which helps carry the pheromones but you dont need to smell the scent for them to work. Now with copulins (which are technically not characterised as pheromones) I cover them totally all the time and they work fine. While the smell is part of what they are reacting to there is physiological response so smell is just part of it. I would not worry about covering to much. I think your focused on the smell so much because you think thats what causes the reaction. Its only part of the picture with copulins. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![pheroUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@pheroUserName](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroUserName)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/69 "2011-04-21T02:10:13Z")
Thanks for the heads up on that TRUEEssence stuff. You seem to have more experience than most, so if you say it smells like watered down EoW, I guess ill save my money 🙂 . > [@](#): > > You do know that mistress doesn’t copulins in it right ? I ordered Mistress based on what I read here… [Women Pheromones](http://www.humanpheromoneadvantage.com/Women_Pheromones.html) > [@](#): > > The formula was created by researcher in the field, Dr. Pugliese, and consists of: Copulins Vomeropherin Estratetraniol TRP2 (Axillary Secretions) V1R/V2R (Vaginal Alipathic Acids) In any case, it doesnt seem to compare to EoW, so I suppose the true ingredients dont really matter. - And I feel I should clarify something - This ‘ideal smell’ I am after is based on a scent I vividly remember from years ago when I was younger (highschool/college years). Back then I often recall coming home form a long day and noticing a VERY strong smell. If I had to describe it without comparing it to EoW, I would say it was a acidic/vinegary smell combined with that sweaty/butt cheese (but not repulsive like you would think) smell. \*By the way I really hate that term ‘butt cheese’ :o , I wish there was some other term we could use, but that seems to the one everyone has agreed on… Not sure if it is normal to be turned on by your own smell, but I cant lie it was kinda hot (I am sure my raging adolescent hormones had something to do with it too). I can only imagine what the boys would think ;p . I know that these modern [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/) dont rely entirely on that initial ‘whiff’, but sometimes (not for every occasion, but sometimes), that initial ‘kick’ seems like it can work magic. Anyway, over the years the smell seemed to get weaker. Not sure if it was just me getting older, birth control (was on the pill for a period of time), or what. Maybe I have just gotten used to the smell, or maybe I have gone completely smell blind 😛 . Bottom line, I would really love to have that smell back in my arsenal again ☹ . ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/70 "2011-04-21T07:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > By the way I really hate that term ‘butt cheese’ LOL That term was provided by my son when he smelled EOW the first time and asked what it was. I reported it and it sort of stuck 😃 On mistress… We tested out the lip gloss here on the forum a long time ago. I wrote to them then because I wanted to know if there was copulins in the lip gloss before I used it. They wrote back there were no copulins in any of there products so I can only go by what they told me. Like you said though either way its weak. > [@](#): > > - And I feel I should clarify something - This ‘ideal smell’ I am after is based on a scent I vividly remember from years ago when I was younger (highschool/college years). Back then I often recall coming home form a long day and noticing a VERY strong smell. If I had to describe it without comparing it to EoW, I would say it was a acidic/vinegary smell combined with that sweaty/butt cheese (but not repulsive like you would think) smell. \*By the way I really hate that term ‘butt cheese’ :o , I wish there was some other term we could use, but that seems to the one everyone has agreed on… > > Not sure if it is normal to be turned on by your own smell, but I cant lie it was kinda hot (I am sure my raging adolescent hormones had something to do with it too). I can only imagine what the boys would think ;p . I know that these modern pheromone products dont rely entirely on that initial ‘whiff’, but sometimes (not for every occasion, but sometimes), that initial ‘kick’ seems like it can work magic. > > Anyway, over the years the smell seemed to get weaker. Not sure if it was just me getting older, birth control (was on the pill for a period of time), or what. Maybe I have just gotten used to the smell, or maybe I have gone completely smell blind 😛 . Bottom line, I would really love to have that smell back in my arsenal again ☹ . I totally understand what your saying about the scent change as we get older. I think it was probably the pill. Lots of studies indicate women experience a scent perception and preference change after using it. MY point is only that if your looking for results from copulins they dont have to smell exactly like you remember. If your more interested in just finding something that captures that smell you remember for your own feeling of nostalgia or to trigger scent memory then the search continues. I think all women probably smell a little different down there though because of there health, hygiene habits and diets so it will be nearly impossible to capture that smell you remember. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![pheroUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@pheroUserName](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroUserName)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/71 "2011-05-02T03:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > I totally understand what your saying about the scent change as we get older. I think it was probably the pill. Lots of studies indicate women experience a scent perception and preference change after using it. MY point is only that if your looking for results from copulins they dont have to smell exactly like you remember. If your more interested in just finding something that captures that smell you remember for your own feeling of nostalgia or to trigger scent memory then the search continues. I think all women probably smell a little different down there though because of there health, hygiene habits and diets so it will be nearly impossible to capture that smell you remember. Well it doesnt have to smell exactly as I remember, I would settle for something even better 😛 . I just use the scent I remember as a sort of baseline. One other thing that we havent really talked about - I wonder if there are any chemicals, foods, ect… that occur in nature that have a smell similar to cops… You would think there must be… Like I said earlier I always found the smell to be kind of acidic (like vinegar) but combined with something else I cant quite put my finger on. Has anyone ever tried to brew up their own batch of homemade EoW? The goal would be simply to simulate that initial ‘whiff’, then combine it with a pheromone/perfume product to complete the package. On a related note, wasnt there a ingredient removed from the current EoW? Is it possible to order this ingredient separately? I was always curious to see how EoW performed before the change. ---
**Author:** ![Txfox76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/txfox76/32/2307_2.png) [@Txfox76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Txfox76)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/72 "2011-05-02T18:11:39Z")
I don’t have nostalgia for the way I smelled when I was in my late teens or early twenties. . .I have nostalgia to how men reacted to how I smelled! The funny part. . .I was OBLIVIOUS! A guy would be saying “Oh my god! (eyes nearly rolling back in head) you smell SO good!” and I would naively talk about what perfume I was wearing or what shampoo I used. . .SOMETIMES they would even say "that’s NOT what I meant"lol The closest experience I’ve had was the “patio ginger guy” from my journal: (Then on the break I went out to the patio area and was facing away from the doors over by a big planter area full of ginger (not in bloom at the moment) I usually just leave the building to get away from people for a minute. Another grad student, I only know in passing came up beside me and says “It always smells so good out here” I look at him and kind of eye the empty ginger stalks. . .he laughs. “Are you doing summer classes?” I said I didn’t know yet and he looked kind of disappointed. He closes his eyes and takes a deep sniff and then walks back towards the building. (it totally COULD have just been the LAVANILA (I’ve never worn it before so I have no idea how people react to just IT) but somehow I doubt it.) ---
**Author:** ![Tricky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Tricky](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tricky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687/73 "2012-04-24T05:25:29Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > I wouldn’t call our natural pheromones weak. > > Scent carries them. In the case of your natural pheromones though its usually the scent of BO which most people find unpleasant thats doing the carrying. 😃 > > I think in the past few generations especially with all the bath and hygiene products out there that we all use and the daily showers most people take its really hampered our own natural pheromone signatures or at least the ability for your signature to get out there and mingle making them seem weak. Your natural pheromones are not weak, we just wash them away more. > > In the “olden days” people didnt shower or bathe daily. They didnt wash their cloths after each wear. The only hygiene products they used were soap. Perfume was used to mask the scent of BO as well as to cause allure. > > People always knew on a subconscious level, some like Cleopatra even were conscious of it. There are letters in the historical archives from Napoleon to Josephine with him stating. “will be home in 3 days dont wash” . Its said it was because her own natural scent turned him on so much that he would make this request. > > Tisha Couldn’t agree more.🙂 I always ask my wife to NOT wash away her natural scent when in the shower. In fact I absolutely love it when she’s been particularly physically active/unable to shower that day - the scent of her vulva is just mind blowing!!😃 [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/simulating-the-cleopatra-trick/49687.md?page=3)