# Some help with Mid-Game Plz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [June 19, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994 "2009-06-19T05:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![basics\_of\_sena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@basics\_of\_sena](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/basics_of_sena)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/1 "2009-06-19T05:21:12Z")
How is it going guys? I hope all is well.Now with school out I have been doing some heavy reading on pick up. Previously I had trouble opening women. I would always go " What should I say?" Then I got the David Deangelo’s Approaching women program and the mystery method interview series. Some pretty heavy duty stuff on how to approach women I strongly recommend for any newbie, however now I am having trouble with my mid-game, I mean I run my opener and then nothing. I find it very hard to transition. If I transition too quick, the girl might think to herself “Why is he telling me his shark diving story?” and if I transition too late I would be “milking the opener” thereby coming off as boring.I usually find myself asking the same lame questions like “Are you from here?” and stuff like that thereby putting the conversational burden on her (bad idea, I must be doing 90% of the talking and she the other 10%). Guests at the David D seminar suggested to run an opener followed by a dhv story then followed by a cold read but as I had said before, from my experience women usually are very confused and protective when I approach them. I’m pretty sure in their head they go “Why is he talking to me?” Perhaps I set off their fight or flight response when I approach them. Guys I hope all this is making sense, I really want to change myself so any help would be highly appreciated, any canned materials I can use to build attraction or any resources out there that can help me? Thanks alot guys ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/2 "2009-06-19T08:11:34Z")
> [@basics\_of\_sena](#): > > How is it going guys? I hope all is well.Now with school out I have been doing some heavy reading on pick up. Previously I had trouble opening women. I would always go " What should I say?" Then I got the David Deangelo’s Approaching women program and the mystery method interview series. Some pretty heavy duty stuff on how to approach women I strongly recommend for any newbie, however now I am having trouble with my mid-game, I mean I run my opener and then nothing. I find it very hard to transition. If I transition too quick, the girl might think to herself “Why is he telling me his shark diving story?” and if I transition too late I would be “milking the opener” thereby coming off as boring.I usually find myself asking the same lame questions like “Are you from here?” and stuff like that thereby putting the conversational burden on her (bad idea, I must be doing 90% of the talking and she the other 10%). Guests at the David D seminar suggested to run an opener followed by a dhv story then followed by a cold read but as I had said before, from my experience women usually are very confused and protective when I approach them. I’m pretty sure in their head they go “Why is he talking to me?” Perhaps I set off their fight or flight response when I approach them. Guys I hope all this is making sense, I really want to change myself so any help would be highly appreciated, any canned materials I can use to build attraction or any resources out there that can help me? > > Thanks alot guys oh god i hope no one is telling a story after an opener…that just makes you look like a self centered asshole ---
**Author:** ![dapg01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@dapg01](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dapg01)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/3 "2009-06-19T08:35:42Z")
I really don’t think you should be doing 90% of the talking! The last thing a girl wants is a strange guy to come up to her and start talking about himself the whole time! Do your opener and then quickly transition into something that will keep them participating or you will lose them in a heartbeat! It’s true you don’t want to telegraph too much interest, but you definitely should be showing that you’re interested in them as people (not as potential hook-ups). If you just keep talking then it will seem like you really don’t care what they think or who they are, you just need someone to pay attention to you. Remember, there’s a big difference in talking TO people than talking AT people, and if you’re too caught up trying to do routines you’re definitely doing the latter. In my experience I would say do not go into the long stories until you have hooked them and they already have an interest in who you are. If you want to DHV yourself do it by making little hints that are incorporated into the conversation so you don’t seem like you’re just trying to impress them. Run your opener and ask them a simple question that they can all answer, such as how they all know each other. Just as you might have read, this helps you see which girl is taken, understand the group dynamic and also incorporate them all into the conversation. Then you just have to follow the flowof the conversation and maybe throw in a couple of short anecdotal remarks. For example if they say “well me and girl #2 are in the same yoga class” you can transition the conversation into that topic and ask them more about it, then throw in some form of DHV such as “I’ve always wanted to do yoga; my doctor reccomended it ever since I hurt my back scuba dving” and then they’ll most likely be curious about that and you can continue to the story you mentioned about scuba diving. You gotta be creative since you can’t just introduce routines out of the blue. Conversations are not robotic and they can go so many places you need to be able to go with the flow. If you can’t, just keep practicing since you can read as much as you want, but it will still take you quite a few approaches before you get it down. Also, attitude is everything, make sure you don’t come up to them second guessing your approach, then they will definitely wonder why you’re talking to them. Why are you talking to them? well why not? They were there and seemed like a fun or honest or diverse group to ask your question (if you open with an opinion opener), don’t act like you need to justify the approach! Last thing, until you get really good at the game, don’t single out the ladies or you really will make them uncomfortable. We guys need to practice our skills when we want to learn how to get better with women, but girls should not suffer the awkwardness and begin to fear that everytime they go to a club, another guy trying to learn how to be a PUA will make them uncomfortable. Engage the whole group, which is one of the best skills you can master, in my opinion, and everyone will be a lot more comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![djandarial](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/djandarial/32/1667_2.png) [@djandarial](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/djandarial)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/4 "2009-06-19T15:06:03Z")
Dapg is correct. I say that because he is not talking about sequences and what page her read it on. He has internalized the information and his whole approach is natural, not mechanical. Mechanical fails out, adaptability works. Study a set before you go in, be funny, learn some jokes, and practice telling them. I personally stick to european jokes. Simply because the chances of anyone hearing them is slim to none, and i can tell them there is a chance they could be lost in translation, or if they (the set) has not traveled or broadened their scopes the jokes could culture shock them, and they would not get them. So tell them just that, and if the joke fails make a joke of it, it’s on them not you LOL. So follow MM and do a yes ladder escalation after you opener but after your transition. Opener (Time constraint) Transition Yess ladder (Joke Stack) (Bar trick for free beer) (Kino start) (disqualification) (qualification) (Hoop) (Kino escalation) (Isolate - mini relocation) (Kino escalation) (decide is she is worth taking home) (And a Winner!!!) Rinse shower repeat. P.S. Almost every set I go into I end up getting a free beer, why? Because it is a role reversal, I can have fun with it, I can "woah this magical feelings you are feeling of joy and upbeat overall good uplifting spirits isn’t for free, gosh at least but me a drink first… kinda…running…low…over here (shakes bottle upside down) bit parched after my little dog and pony show, care to top me up? What’s $3 where can you get a good time for $3, point to the alpha male in the group and say.. and bro, no I don’t wanna hear about your trip to mexcio LOL, ((((AMOGGGGGG)))). At times you may not want a number of a pretty girl, it may not be worth it, I pre-screen on body language, then on social interaction in their own group before I approach, so I know who is a leader and who is a follower, I don’t stare, I just look around. Be selective, don;t be a man whore, they pick up on that, go out one time and just drink to drink with guy friends, (I shoulden’t even be doing this, it’s supposed to be guys night…) Thanks, I’ll be here till 9pm cst today. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/5 "2009-06-19T15:37:14Z")
> [@djandarial](#): > > Dapg is correct. I say that because he is not talking about sequences and what page her read it on. He has internalized the information and his whole approach is natural, not mechanical. Mechanical fails out, adaptability works. > > Study a set before you go in, be funny, learn some jokes, and practice telling them. I personally stick to european jokes. Simply because the chances of anyone hearing them is slim to none, and i can tell them there is a chance they could be lost in translation, or if they (the set) has not traveled or broadened their scopes the jokes could culture shock them, and they would not get them. So tell them just that, and if the joke fails make a joke of it, it’s on them not you LOL. > > So follow MM and do a yes ladder escalation after you opener but after your transition. > > Opener > (Time constraint) > Transition > Yess ladder > (Joke Stack) > (Bar trick for free beer) > (Kino start) > (disqualification) > (qualification) > (Hoop) > (Kino escalation) > (Isolate - mini relocation) > (Kino escalation) > (decide is she is worth taking home) > (And a Winner!!!) > > Rinse shower repeat. > > P.S. Almost every set I go into I end up getting a free beer, why? Because it is a role reversal, I can have fun with it, I can "woah this magical feelings you are feeling of joy and upbeat overall good uplifting spirits isn’t for free, gosh at least but me a drink first… kinda…running…low…over here (shakes bottle upside down) bit parched after my little dog and pony show, care to top me up? What’s $3 where can you get a good time for $3, point to the alpha male in the group and say.. and bro, no I don’t wanna hear about your trip to mexcio LOL, ((((AMOGGGGGG)))). > > At times you may not want a number of a pretty girl, it may not be worth it, I pre-screen on body language, then on social interaction in their own group before I approach, so I know who is a leader and who is a follower, I don’t stare, I just look around. > > Be selective, don;t be a man whore, they pick up on that, go out one time and just drink to drink with guy friends, (I shoulden’t even be doing this, it’s supposed to be guys night…) > > Thanks, I’ll be here till 9pm cst today. good advice my man, but i’d like to point out that you wanna learn each step at a time till you’re so comfortable with it that it becomes second nature to you..trying all this stuff at once is like cramming for a test it will make you nervous ---
**Author:** ![jessejester](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jessejester/32/1683_2.png) [@jessejester](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jessejester)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/6 "2009-06-19T17:56:49Z")
Bas, If its the shark story about how sharks have a sequence and circle before they attack and the trick is to interupt the sequence, thats a tough one to pull off right after an opener. It would seem like it was out of left field. Dapg gave a good way to introduce it though. I am not a PUA by any means, but I do study it a bit. The model DJ layed out is great. Just don’t forget that being yourself goes along way, and canned material will only get you so far. Oh, if you find yourself stuck, and the “so, where are you from” is about to come out of your mouth, find another way to say it. Like “you guys look like your from\_\_\_\_\_, your not from around are you.” It seems to come across better then the standard “so, where you from” that every other dude uses. ---
**Author:** ![WildFlower](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wildflower/32/1260_2.png) [@WildFlower](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/WildFlower)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/7 "2009-06-19T18:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > bad idea, I must be doing 90% of the talking and she the other 10% The whole 90% of the talking rule was invented for guys who don’t own [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/). ---
**Author:** ![Vangelis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vangelis/32/598_2.png) [@Vangelis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vangelis)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/8 "2009-06-19T18:45:58Z")
As Meox333x said: you have to really integrate each stage of the game. For me what worked in the beginning was to: Run the openers and then leave. I didn’t got into the next stage of the game, until I was honestly comfortable leaving (and this becomes even more valuable in the final stages). Of course if the ask you a question or start conversation you stay then and continue playing, and you leave in a congruent way. Congruency to leave comes from your time constraint. You have to honestly go in with no attachment to the end result. When you own your right to leave, only then, you gain the right to stay. That’s the purpose of the time constraint and this only works if delivered “honestly”. For me the best DHV you can master is not a story or a routine, is an honest “needless” attitude. By the way, never confuse needless with jerkness, they are completly different. Jerkness might seem a way to show strength of some sort, but belive me when goodness comes from strength and conviction is very attractive for quality women.That’s part of integrating a good congruent “time” constraint. I really agree with DJ : go to bars, to honestly have fun without the need of ladies, (they feel attracted to a man that can live a fun and exciting life). As well, this will help you feel comfortable in your skin (be yourself as Jessejester said) and the environment. Don’t be surprised if women start opening you or giving you IOI’s. It is easier and more entretaining to play the game, when they “service” first.😉 ---
**Author:** ![djandarial](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/djandarial/32/1667_2.png) [@djandarial](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/djandarial)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/9 "2009-06-19T21:21:11Z")
Indifference to a bar while being there, either actually watching the tv for as I did last night, USA vs. Argentina recap match. I was interested, and I do enjoy soccer. People kept coming up to me, and saying hello, I was bought 3 drinks and even did some bar tricks, but I did not need to go talk to ladies, I could have, but a guy able to be by himself and be entertained doing what he likes. That says a lot. Don’t be a jerk, but be aloof, make a decision to talk to her, not because you want to feel her up, but because something about her struck your fancy. Play off that, instead of lines, mind you I have lines and I still use them though modified, but still, even the strawberry fields, they are tools to judge whether she is worth your time, they may be games, but they are hoops as well. They can tell if you want to hit on them, look at them, smile then look away, then look back. If they are looking at you still… go say hi, you never know if you will see people again, so you are taking a risk, just do it. -DJ If you like my interpretation, feel free to rep. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/10 "2009-06-20T18:36:44Z")
i agree with the above posters, leaving and not giving a dam are two of the most important skills you will ever learn, and are also the two skills that separate those with game and without ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-help-with-mid-game-plz/29994/11 "2009-06-20T23:19:21Z")
Take a look at [approachanxiety.com](http://approachanxiety.com) and [roissy.wordpress.com](http://roissy.wordpress.com) and read up elsewhere on natural game and direct game. Read everything Steve/SteveO has written and also the posts here on vocal training, posture, fashion etc.