# Starting from first principles. **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [July 19, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807 "2009-07-19T02:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/1 "2009-07-19T02:24:12Z")
Needed a place to start keeping track of things, so I figured I might as well put them here. As an initial disclaimer, if you’re in here looking for interesting new combinations to try, this isn’t the thread for you – not yet, anyway. I’m starting from the top and tackling this in a painfully slow, painfully methodical way, so it’ll probably be pretty boring in here for awhile. The quick description of me: male (obviously, given this thread’s location), 25 years old, Asian descent, athletic/fit body type at 5’8", about 155lb. 18 Jul 2009 This was actually intended to be a day without [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/). I didn’t have plans to really go anywhere, until I realized I was about due for a haircut. Since I’m new to all this, I figured I’d start with baby steps: 1 spray of Ammo To Go, Version 1.0, 1X strength. This was really a two-fold test: to establish a baseline that I can use for reference in the future, and to figure out if the scent of this to-go vial of Ammo (I’m not sure if it’s the current Ammo scent or not, but it sure isn’t neroli) mixes well with my regular cologne (Banana Republic’s Slate). Noticeable self-effects: None, other than that I crinkled my nose a bit at the immediate after-scent of the Ammo scent package; that faded quickly once it settled down. Effect on others: None that I noticed, either at Supercuts or at the grocery store, where I stopped afterward to take care of a few errands. The cashier at Supercuts was quite friendly, but my recollection from going there once a month is that she’s generally a pleasant person to interact with anyway. Overall, no big surprises here. The good news is that whatever the scent package is in this To-Go of Ammo, it gets covered pretty well by my cologne – better, in fact, than my cologne covers neroli. Next time: stepping up to 2 sprays! Oooh, ahhhhhhh, yes, I know, I’ve probably lost you all by now already. ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/2 "2009-07-21T01:16:05Z")
20 Jul 2009 As promised, stepped on up to two sprays of Ammo 1X today. No cover scent, since by the time the two sprays were done (one to the neck, one to the inside of the left elbow and rubbed onto the right elbow), I was feeling pretty overloaded on the scent - it’s now been 11 hours, and I can still smell the scent going strong. My day today consisted solely of work; my original thought was to use it as a test run for something more business or social, like A314 or [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/). But many of my co-workers with whom I interact are women; I couldn’t resist the curiosity. Now, I acknowledged off the bat that these women would not be an ideal test population for Ammo: (1) It’s at work, so everyone will no doubt be making an extra effort to remain proper and reserved; (2) I’ve been good friends with all of them for about a year now, so the friend zone effect (or as I call it, the Phantom Zone) is in high gear and they probably wouldn’t show much even if they were being affected; (3) most of them are in relationships, either happy and long-term, or brand new (so in both cases, they’ll be making an effort not to screw things up). That said, they’re probably still the best test population I can conjure up at the moment - I live and work in a very suburban area, with no real nightlife, to say anything of bars and clubs. And even if there were a nightlife, my work life mostly would prevent me from making the most of it. So with that acknowledged, I set out on what would most likely be an uninformative test. Noticeable self-effects: None, but one of the women said that I seemed to be in a better than usual mood today. Could’ve been a pheromone self-effect, but also could’ve been a result of the fact that I got fairly little sleep last night and am a bit sleep-deprived. Effect on others: Nothing prominent. Everyone was more or less themselves, with no real different behavior from the women or unusual aggressiveness from other men. I was cooped up in a small office with one of the women for about an hour and a half during a phone conference, during which she did exhibit a fair amount of hair-playing and fidgeting, but I’d chalk that up mostly to boredom - it was a long, slow meeting. I’ll probably put the Ammo on a shelf for awhile. I don’t really have a viable test group for it, and also, I think if I’m going to go for anything greater than two sprays, I’m going to need Heavy Ammo in the 2X concentration to avoid suffocating myself in the scent. It’s not unpleasant and I rather like it, but there’s just too much of it in one spray for my tastes. At least it means I’ll get more life out of this bottle. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/3 "2009-07-22T03:51:58Z")
21 Jul 2009 Pretty basic today still. One drop A314, spread across the front of my neck, covered with cologne. Unfortunately most of my day was spent cooped up in my office behind my desk, so not many opportunities to observe interactions. I did seem to be a bit more confident at lunch – I noticed that I spoke up a bit more than I usually do (it’s not uncommon for me to go through entire meals only getting in a word or two), although I probably wasn’t wearing enough A314 for any significant elevation of my position in the social group to take place; other people in the group who were more senior than me (both in terms of age, and length of time at the office) were more than content to talk over me when we spoke simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/4 "2009-07-23T07:32:32Z")
22 Jul 2009 Went a little off-mission today, and loaded up on 3 sprays of [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) 1X. Like yesterday, my day didn’t have as much human interaction as I would have preferred, but the conversation at lunch (between myself, another gent, and 3 ladies) took kind of an unusual turn when we started talking about trashy novels, the abundance of sex scenes in bad scifi novels, and the abundance of sex and violence on HBO. The conversation was already veering in that direction when I arrived, though, so it may or may not have been attributable to the IH. Will definitely have to get IH in at least 2X on my next order; 3 sprays of 1X was really pushing my limits on tolerating the cloud of neroli hovering around me, and 1 of those 3 sprays was in my hair. ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/5 "2009-07-31T06:21:07Z")
Had my first more interesting results today. On a whim, decided that I’d go about my business today with two sprays of 1X Turn Up The Heat. I hadn’t been getting very good results out of the socials, and noted observations from metaltree (who, like me, is of Asian descent) that the socials seemed to reduce the occurrence of positive results for him, so I figured I’d load up a bit more on -none and see what happens. I had a dentist appointment in the afternoon, which I arrived for somewhat late. My hygienist was not thrilled, and I obviously don’t blame her for that. To make matters worse, I have a couple of teeth that were pretty sensitive to the new-fangled ultrasonic water picks that dental offices are using nowadays, so she had to use the old school picks, which require more effort. Didn’t expect her to be too happy with me overall. But in the time that I sat down in that chair and the time that she was done cleaning my teeth (little more than 30 minutes), it was a complete turnaround - she was chatting me up and being quite engaging, all without much propmting from me, since I was mostly unable to speak with dental instruments filling my mouth. When I scheduled my next appointment (6 months from now) and promised to get on the road a little earlier the next time around, she smiled and said something to the effect of, “Well since you’re in good shape… I think it’ll be okay.” I think the part about being in good shape was in reference to my teeth not falling apart, not my physique, but even so, considering that I was basically the worst patient imaginable at the time that I walked in, and was barely able to get in a few words edgewise throughout the whole procedure, I think this one is a win for the pheros. ---
**Author:** ![Snoopyace](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/snoopyace/32/1727_2.png) [@Snoopyace](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Snoopyace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/6 "2009-07-31T15:03:39Z")
> [@justaguy2116](#): > > Had my first more interesting results today. > > On a whim, decided that I’d go about my business today with two sprays of 1X Turn Up The Heat. I hadn’t been getting very good results out of the socials, and noted observations from metaltree (who, like me, is of Asian descent) that the socials seemed to reduce the occurrence of positive results for him, so I figured I’d load up a bit more on -none and see what happens. > > I had a dentist appointment in the afternoon, which I arrived for somewhat late. My hygienist was not thrilled, and I obviously don’t blame her for that. To make matters worse, I have a couple of teeth that were pretty sensitive to the new-fangled ultrasonic water picks that dental offices are using nowadays, so she had to use the old school picks, which require more effort. Didn’t expect her to be too happy with me overall. But in the time that I sat down in that chair and the time that she was done cleaning my teeth (little more than 30 minutes), it was a complete turnaround - she was chatting me up and being quite engaging, all without much propmting from me, since I was mostly unable to speak with dental instruments filling my mouth. When I scheduled my next appointment (6 months from now) and promised to get on the road a little earlier the next time around, she smiled and said something to the effect of, “Well since you’re in good shape… I think it’ll be okay.” I think the part about being in good shape was in reference to my teeth not falling apart, not my physique, but even so, considering that I was basically the worst patient imaginable at the time that I walked in, and was barely able to get in a few words edgewise throughout the whole procedure, I think this one is a win for the pheros. Sounds like it was a ‘hit’ to me! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xman0142](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/13edae/32.png) [@Xman0142](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Xman0142)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/7 "2009-07-31T23:31:28Z")
def. a hit in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![moonwhisper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/moonwhisper/32/1735_2.png) [@moonwhisper](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/moonwhisper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/8 "2009-08-01T02:29:34Z")
Not everyone can be charming with a mouthful of dental instruments. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/9 "2009-08-08T01:10:00Z")
Interesting experience today that should be a lesson to anyone hoping that they can just spray on pheromones and suddenly have people flocking to them – the take home point is (as many of us already know) that it just doesn’t work that way. I was wearing two sprays of Instant Openness today. At work, got invited to a farewell lunch for one of our summer interns, who is finishing up his internship today. A buddy of mine was also invited, along with a few other co-workers who, from my general experience with them, aren’t always the most open and social folk. During the lunch, my buddy was being very social and talkative, and I was making my best effort as well. Afterward, when we were all back at the office, he sent me a message asking if it was just him, or was nobody else at the table being social at all and mostly just talking about work. I told him it wasn’t just him - I completely agreed. With the caveat here that I haven’t pinpointed my Instant Openness sweet spot yet, I think today was a good example of what pheromones can and can’t do. They can help lube the threads a bit, so to speak, but no amount of lubrication will shove a square peg through a round hole. Some people are just not social by nature/personality, and drowning them in Instant Openness isn’t going to change that fact. If they’ve got nothing to talk about with you, they’ve got nothing to talk about with you and a dose of [social pheromones](https://a314.com/product-category/social-pheromones/) isn’t going to magically fix that. ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/starting-from-first-principles/30807/10 "2009-08-21T02:16:18Z")
Partially inspired by the thread about 10 drops of A314 and 6 sprays of [Instant Jerk](https://a314.com/product/instant-jerk/) being a winning poker combo, I set out to OD myself on -none today, using 3 sprays of double strength Turn Up The Heat (15mcg total) plus 2 sprays of Instant Jerk, and one spray of cologne to cover. For the first few hours of the day, nothing was out of the usual – no self-effects for me, no noticeable change in my interactions with people. Then when I went out to pick up lunch, got two hits in quick succession. First one came from the girl working the register. It was busy in the cafe, so they had three registers running and were just herding customers through like cattle. I expected to just walk up, give my order, pay, and go, as all the people in front of me were doing. Instead, when I get there, the girl smiles at me, asks me how I’m doing, and then, while she takes my order, chit chats with me about how the week is almost over and laughs at my lame joke about how my co-workers are all ditching me at work to take a long weekend. Since this place puts the customer’s name on each order, she then tries unsuccessfully to remember my name (not surprising that she couldn’t, since I’d only eaten there once in the past three months). Then, while I’m waiting for my order to come up, I’m standing in front of the self-service kiosks and a different girl behind me is tidying up the stations. As I’m waiting, she passes by, stops, says hello, and then we start talking about how the place is really busy considering that it’s close to the end of the lunch hour, yada yada yada… My food shows up and I grab it and go, because let’s face it, I was hungry. But still, two good hits on a day when I wasn’t really expecting to get any, giving the combo I was wearing. Maybe my body cranks out a lot less -none naturally than I thought. And I can confidently say that there was no placebo effect involved, because when I walked into that cafe, I wasn’t thinking, “I’m loaded up with -none, the ladies are gonna dig me if I engage them.” I was thinking, “Hungry hungry hungry hungry.” Not entirely related: I cracked open my gym bag this morning to load it up with my usual gym gear, only to discover that I’d absent-mindedly left it packed from after I went to the gym on Tuesday. I’ve done this a couple of times here and there, so I figured, no big deal, just empty it out and throw the worn stuff in the hamper. Never been a problem. For some reason today, the entire bag reeked of that very distinct kitty piss smell. This was completely unexpected for me, because as I said, I’ve accidentally forgotten to unpack the bag before – and more importantly, I’ve done it on days when I was wearing pheros. I usually spray pheros in the morning and don’t hit the gym until the evening after work, so normally there’s nothing left on my gym clothes other than what I produce naturally anyway. The only thing that’s been different this week is that I started using Dial Magnetic, but I wouldn’t expect the androstadienone in that stuff to be particularly long-lived either. Interesting.