# TAC vs TAA: what's the difference, and can they be combined with P74? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [December 1, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457 "2008-12-01T04:56:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/1 "2008-12-01T04:56:46Z")
What exactly is the difference between TAA and TAC? I have read that they get in each other’s way and can be unpredictable when used together. I have absent-mindedly done that a couple of times and both times I locked my keys in the car, something I previously hadn’t done since high school. So if I need to choose between one and the other, how exactly do they differ from each other? And is it really okay to use the two together if P74 is included? How does that work? These are the questions I am exploring. **Test 1** - TAC at the gym I wore 12.5 mcg TAC to the gym this afternoon. I used one drop A314 version LS (give me respect, STFU and stay outta my way) as a base. That’s all the pheros I used. When I got to the gym I noticed the music, which is usually playing – you know outta the ceiling tile speakers. It seemed louder, though I doubt it really was. I’d never paid much attention before. I felt more like dancing than getting on the treadmill. I certainly never felt that way at the gym before! I don’t consider this a social event. That’s why I wear a little of the leave-me-alone version of A314. Nevertheless, in my self-imposed solitude, everything seemed slightly amusing. It would have been very easy to laugh were there the slightest cause. I don’t especially like the gym. I go there for health reasons. And yet today, it was, for no reason, amusing. I can see why some users ascribe “hilarity” to TAC. My body felt light and relaxed, almost joyful. This fits in with the urge to start dancing in the middle of the gym. The lower half of my body felt especially light, relaxed, free. This contrasts with P103 which feels like it lifts a load off one’s shoulders (top part of the body). Somebody claimed that TAC makes it easier for a woman to have an orgasm. That is consistent with being relaxed and free in the lower part of the body. I’ll test that theory in due time. There’s been a slight soreness in my knee. It’s nothing serious, but I have been considering getting some acupuncture treatments to make sure it doen’t become serious. Today I ran two miles and never noticed anything. I think that’s because my leg muscles were just more relaxed and didn’t irritate what I suspect is a tendon issue. The other thing I noticed, but have no explanation for, is that my hands seemed unusually sweaty. ?! Contrasting this with my general experiences with TAA, I’d say TAA is more “here and now”. TAC is somewhat “here and now” but TAA really nails it down. TAC somewhat increased awareness of my body in a pleasurable way. TAA is very grounding and centering. I think that is why it decreases social distance – you can’t run away, in your head, to avoid those in your presence. Wearing TAA is not like meditating, but, without meditating, it produces a centeredness as though you recently had been. TAC is just less serious, more playful. Playful implies invoking in the “here and now” fantasy items from without. So far I have not found that TAA helps a woman to orgasm, and that surprised me. TAA seems less attuned to the joy of sex and more attuned to the spiritual satisfaction of chanting “om”. **Test 2** I woke up early in the morning feeling agitated, but I wanted to get more sleep. I decided to experiement with [pheromones](https://a314.com/). after 00 min. - P103, 75mcg - a little more relaxed. after 11 min. - TAC, 10mcg - more relaxed, especially lower body after 27 min. - P86, 15mcg & TAC, 5mcg more - definitely more relaxed after 41 min. - TAK, 2.5mcg - a little disoriented, but sleepy after 52 min. - TAA, 5mcg - more disoriented, not sleepy after 59 min. - P74, 5mcg - less disoriented **Test 3** - TAC with TAA I added TAC to my [P86 Sensuality formula 2.0](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/self-improvement-w-p86-sensuality-mix/15812/13), which includes 5mcg TAA. I noticed the negative effects of combining TAA & TAC. I felt trembly. I could feel my heart pounding. I’ve noticed the couple of times before when I mixed TAC and TAA. It is very uncomfortable, almost panicy. My mood lighter & more distractable, flustered, overwhelmed, disoriented. I added some EST. The TAC seemed to dilute the effects I expect of EST. Adding P74 restored focus, but I am still distractable and a little trembly (though less). P86 still works. I feel more aggressive, less affectionate. TAC dilutes affectionate, cuddly aspect of EST. EST seemed to increase the sense of disorientation. P74 helped. P103 did not help. **Test 4** - Nervous with TAC I wore 12.5mcg TAC and 10mcg P74 and A314 to a meeting. I sometimes have a nervous tic around my eyes. It was acting up and I was feeling insecure. I kept spilling things! There was little sense of hilarity. **Test 5** - Voting I wore 2 drops A314LS and 12.5mcg TAC I walked to the polling place. It was a pleasant walk. I felt alittle disoriented at the polls. Later I added 5mcg TAC and went to the gym. I forgot to put money in the parking meter, similar relaxed experience at the gym. **Test 6** - TAC, TAA, P74 I wore 10mcg of each TAC, TAA and P74. Since I’ve been wearing TAC I seem to spill things. With TAA it’s even worse. It’s not safe for me to be around liquids. Today I almost choked on my own saliva. With this combination of three pheros and nothing else I still feel a little jittery. It’s not as bad as TAC and TAA without P74, but it is still there. Without the P74 I will tend to be overtly trembling. With the P74 added that goes away, but on a mental level it is still happening. I feel very awkward. People seem to respond to me in a positive way. I despise this P74 with TAC stuff. I can’t even type! **Test 7** - Cold and empty with TAC I went to a meeting tonight wearing 17.5mcg TAC. No one else showed up. Maybe I’m here on the wrong night. I feel empty and down – but not depressed. People react to me warily. This stuff is not good for rapport when my mood is poor. I feel vulnerable, empty. This “empty” feeling is very unusual for me, without TAC. People look cold, unattractive, distant. TAC is very cool. Here’s the warmth continuum as I have experienced it: cold == P81 \< TAC \< P74 \< TAA \< alphanol \< EST == hot **Test 8** - TAA at the gym I wore TAA instead of TAC to the gym. Time seemed to pass more slowly. After running my pulse returned to normal more slowly. **Test 9** - TAC at the gym I wore 20mcg TAC & 1 drop A314LS to the gym. With TAC at the gym time seems to pass faster. Heart rate doesn’t get as high and definitely comes back toward resting rate faster with TAC! I did not notice especially sweaty hands this time. **Test 10** - TAC with P124 TAC makes me more relaxed and comfortable at the gym, but it leaves me feeling kind of empty inside, trembly and a little disoriented. Adding P74 makes this worse. TAC and TAA is the worst. TAC, TAA and P74 is better than TAC and TAA alone. This time I added 30mcg P124 to 15mcg TAC. The addition of P124 helps a lot. The P124 has a soothing quality. I do not feel empty inside. I do not feel trembly. The benefits of TAC remain. I still feel relaxed from the TAC and still a little absent minded. I forgot the supplements I usually take before going to the gym. I sometimes forgot to set the weights on the machines or to count reps. [Since this day, my absent-mindedness seems to have improved with more experience wearing TAC. Also, I have concluded that equal amounts of P124 – rather than twice as much – is adequate.] With the TAC, I run faster. I cut three minutes off my two mile run. My ankles are more relaxed. There is more spring in my step. **Test 11** - TAC with P86, without TAA I substituted 17.5mcg TAC for the TAA in my [P86 Sensualtiy mix 2.0](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/self-improvement-w-p86-sensuality-mix/15812/13). In Test 3 above I added TAC to the Sensuality mix without removing the TAA. This time I make up a small batch of the mix without TAA and instead included the TAC. Self tests showed this mix – call it version 2.0C – performed in a similar manner to the original version 2.0. This is the first field test. I apply a half dose enroute to the strip club, half dose when I arrive and a third half about two hours later. The effects were as expected. I get more attention than my minimal tipping deserves. Ladies sit and talk to me and tell me how good I look, my hair, my suit, my tie. The ladies are unusually attractive, but I am not drawn to them. TAC is very cool, maybe cold. I wore two drops of A314 before leaving home. I add 10mcg P124 and one spray of IO with each half dose of the TAC Sensuality mix. It works well, a little cool, until the third half dose. With that I also refresh my A314 with two sprays of MX173. MX173 is supposed to be the same as A314 but without two of the pheromeones in A314. Everything should be pretty much the same, but it isn’t. I get this empty, nervous, trembly feeling which I would expect with the addition of P74 or TAA, but there is no P74 or TAA. Adding more P124 helps a little. It is still miserable. I don’t understand it, but I’m probably giving up on version 2.0C. **Conclusions** TAC and TAA together are very bad for me. I tremble violently, my heart pounds in my chest and I become very disoriented. Adding P74 to this mix helps some, but it is still an unpleasant experience. TAC with only P74 is also a little jittery, but less extreme. TAC alone has some very beneficial effects. It is relaxing and can add a sense of humor to a social event. The relaxing aspect seems to apply primarily to the lower half of the body. At the gym it improves my performance and helps my pulse rate return to a resting rate more quickly. It can, however, leave me with a hollow feeling. There is a distractibility and absent-mindedness that goes away after multiple uses. In a social situation TAC sometimes makes me more nervous. People can seem inappropriately cold. With a negative social experience it can make me feel more down and people more distant. It, however, is not depressing. Roughly equal amounts of P124 soothes the empty feeling left by TAC without removing the beneficial relaxing effects. Interestingly enough, I do not experience much of anything form P124 when I use it alone. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/2 "2008-12-01T09:37:55Z")
Wow! Very nice report! Reps to you. Diane ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/3 "2008-12-01T13:55:16Z")
Diane999, Thanks for the kind comments. On the left side of the post below your name – or my name, as it were – avatar (or lack thereof), Rep Power, etc, there are three small, round buttons at the bottom. The middle one has a heart on it. Clicking that one is how we give reps now on Pherotalk 2.0. W ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/4 "2008-12-01T18:49:49Z")
Wow, major reps buddy! I was wondering what you were up to. Cheers! 😃 I would agree with most of your experiences. TAC at times, mostly after some hilarity has passed and is quiet, can indeed feel hollow. In a way it’s like my brain is saying, “Hey that was really funny! …wait, why?” –\> Hollowness. Like watching pro wrestling on TV. ‘Oooh, that must have hurt! _excited_ …wait..why am I watching this crap? I just wasted two minutes of my life..’ (sorry wrestling fans. 😃) I’ve been a little stumped on where to try TAC or what to try it with. Maybe some TAF? Or some p83? I dunno, TAC is a strange one, not as strange as TAK, but it’s up there. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/5 "2008-12-01T18:58:16Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > Diane999, > > Thanks for the kind comments. > > On the left side of the post below your name – or my name, as it were – avatar (or lack thereof), Rep Power, etc, there are three small, round buttons at the bottom. The middle one has a heart on it. Clicking that one is how we give reps now on Pherotalk 2.0. > > W Hitting the thank you button also awards reps (and leaves a signature!). 🙂 Diane ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/6 "2008-12-02T18:24:58Z")
I wonder why I seem more susceptible to this hollow feeling from TAC. I haven’t seen this discussed on other TAC threads. This is very different from how I normally feel. Very different! It’s not like I have a tendency to feel like that otherwise. TAC is strange. It doesn’t seem to play well with other pheros. When, for example, we mix TAK with TAA , Phya and I both have reported feeling a choice between following the TAK or the TAA effects. Whereas with TAC and TAA the two seem to fight each other for control – making me extremely uncomfortable and disoriented. Of course, some people like mixing TAA and TAC and sometimes [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/). Steve’s famous ICM 0.25.1a [link not found] formula includes all three. Of course, there’s the incident where [Steve drove over a tree while wearing TAC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/at-tac-k-of-the-teenage-dream-machine-the-3-headed-thread-monster/7997). I definitley like P124 with TAC. It diminishes the hollow feeling. I think I’m just going to mix the two in one bottle. Why would I ever wear TAC without P124? Maybe if I had a better idea of what P124 did, I understand TAC and its idiosyncrasies better as well. I like TAC for physical exercise. It keeps the body relaxed and reduces the risk injury. I wonder if it lowers blood pressure? In social situations, TAC definitley has promise, but for myself it also has great risks. Logically, it seems that the best way to ground the lightening effects of TAC would be TAA, but that definitley backfires for me. TAC with TAF and P83 strikes me as a recipe for paranoid mania, but I haven’t tried it yet. You go first Phya! So far I know that TAC works okay with IO. I wondered about that because IO works so well this TAA. Tacitus reports a grounded quality from P81/P89 [link not found] . I wonder how they’d do with TAC? I’ll put that on my “to do” list. [P81 with P89 - More novel experiences](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p81-with-p89-more-novel-experiences/35301) ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/7 "2008-12-16T16:12:46Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > TAC with TAF and P83 strikes me as a recipe for paranoid mania, but I haven’t tried it yet. You go first Phya! Hmm… I sense a challenge! I was going to have a phero free day today, but what the heck… I’ll try this and post back in about an hour. So, I call you and raise you one! 😛 Here goes nothing! 10:00 AM going to go shower and then apply the following: 10.0 mcg TAF 10.0 mcg [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) 10.0 mcg TAC After showering, I applied straight Hydrogen peroxide to the areas where I may still have some none from the Edge for Women gel packs. At 10:15 I sprayed on the above. Self effects: Strangely I smell something akin to vanilla. I feel just slightly dizzy and flushed. This passes pretty quickly but there is definitely something that is beginning to affect my perceptions… a solid, grounding feel, probably the P83. I’m getting so heavy feeling, and tired. After just 6 minutes, I have a hard time holding my eyes open… they are heavy. When I close my eyes I feel better, more awake. My perceptions are drawn inward with this mix. I definitely feel pleasurable sensations moving through my muscles, like the kind you feel when relaxing after a really good stretch. Very good relaxing combination for me with the exception of feeling eye strain when my eyes are open. The eye strain and heaviness passes after about 10 minutes. Now the relaxation continues even when my eyes are open. I definitely feel in the moment with no desire to travel forward in time or place. Totally centering. There is an almost automatic unconscious need to move. I want to reach for things, but it is unfocused. This is both the right side and the left side. It is OCD like in that it can be overridden, but is automatic. I could see where this might be interpreted as nervousness, but there are none of the internal jitteriness of adrenaline release. This is more dopamine-like movement. To be more specific, I am rubbing both right and left fingers with my thumbs in a repeating sweeping motion, extending and flexing my toes, moving my ankles in a circular motion back and forth and flexing and extending my feet. I don’t get this movement need in my trunk or larger areas of my limbs, or in my face, just hands and feet. This lets up after about 15 minutes, leaving my hands and feet feeling really well exercised and relaxed. My phone rang and I startled very easily. While on the phone this mix lent itself to a very grounded and short conversation. It was my husband wanting me to try the dark chocolate fudge he made last night… okay. I walked into the kitchen. The walk seemed heavy, stately, slow. The fudge… zomg, the best fudge I ever tasted. . I don’t usually like fudge. I could almost taste every single individual ingredient. Taste is enhanced for sure, but at the same time the act of chewing feels cumbersome, not something I particularly want to do right now. I’m very annoyed by noise. Someone left the TV on a news channel in the living room. I’m loathing the sound of the news-people’s voices. When I turned it off, I felt a ton of relief. At 30 minutes it is starting to get a little analytical – but not much, and its buried pretty quickly and efficiently by deeper relaxation. There is some upper body tension, lower body relaxation. I’m going to add 10 more mcg TAF to amp up the signal. With the addition of more TAF the relaxed sensations in my lower body become pleasurable, and there is an added desire to stretch the long muscles of my legs to their fullest. I think the TAC and P83 are different, and maybe a little polar to each other. TAC makes me want to move. The P83 makes me want to become quiet and perfectly still, like a deep-rooted tree. This might be a really good combination for a long yoga session. TAC is interesting. It promotes stretching movements that lead to relaxation. This is probably what I like about it so much in my sensuality mixes… that need to stretch is very sensual. Okay, so my hour is almost up. My conclusions: No psychosis or major mental agitation or effects other than an increase in startle response (without concomittent adrenaline release), and general annoyance at distracting noises. Both TAC and P83 are physical molecules. TAC promotes movement, P83 promotes stillness. One of these molecules does have a pleasure response attached, but it might be both. It is hard to differentiate which is which with this kind of test. Okay, I’m going to post this to the Ladies forum as well. TTYL Diane ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/8 "2008-12-17T07:52:48Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Self effects: Strangely I smell something akin to vanilla. I feel just slightly dizzy and flushed. This passes pretty quickly but there is definitely something that is beginning to affect my perceptions… **a solid, grounding feel** , probably the P83. I’m getting so heavy feeling, and tired. After just 6 minutes, I have a hard time holding my eyes open… they are heavy. > > When I close my eyes I feel better, more awake. My perceptions are drawn inward with this mix. **I definitely feel pleasurable sensations moving through my muscles, like the kind you feel when relaxing after a really good stretch.** Very good relaxing combination for me with the exception of feeling eye strain when my eyes are open. The eye strain and heaviness passes after about 10 minutes. Now the relaxation continues even when my eyes are open. > > **I definitely feel in the moment with no desire to travel forward in time or place. Totally centering.** > > - There is an almost automatic unconscious need to move. I want to reach for things, but it is unfocused. This is both the right side and the left side. It is OCD like in that it can be overridden, but is automatic. I could see where this might be interpreted as nervousness, but there are none of the internal jitteriness of adrenaline release.\* This is more dopamine-like movement. To be more specific, I am rubbing both right and left fingers with my thumbs in a repeating sweeping motion, extending and flexing my toes, moving my ankles in a circular motion back and forth and flexing and extending my feet. I don’t get this movement need in my trunk or larger areas of my limbs, or in my face, just hands and feet. This lets up after about 15 minutes, leaving my hands and feet feeling really well exercised and relaxed. > > My phone rang and I startled very easily. While on the phone this mix lent itself to a very grounded and short conversation. It was my husband wanting me to try the dark chocolate fudge he made last night… okay. I walked into the kitchen. **The walk seemed heavy, stately, slow.** The fudge… zomg, the best fudge I ever tasted. . I don’t usually like fudge. I could almost taste every single individual ingredient. Taste is enhanced for sure, but at the same time the act of chewing feels cumbersome, not something I particularly want to do right now. > > I’m very annoyed by noise. Someone left the TV on a news channel in the living room. I’m loathing the sound of the news-people’s voices. When I turned it off, I felt a ton of relief. > > I think the TAC and P83 are different, and maybe a little polar to each other. TAC makes me want to move. The P83 makes me want to become quiet and perfectly still, like a deep-rooted tree. This might be a really good combination for a long yoga session. > > Both TAC and P83 are physical molecules. TAC promotes movement, P83 promotes stillness. One of these molecules does have a pleasure response attached, but it might be both. It is hard to differentiate which is which with this kind of test. I would say that the **bold** is TAC, the _italic_ is p83, and the underlined is either the p83, or the p83 mixing with TAF. Polar? Possibly. They definitely aren’t oriented the same way. But from me experiences, I’d say my experiences were the opposite. p83 is not calming at all, but rather edgy, a bit akin to a comedown.. TAC is calming, a sense of being able to be casual. > [@diane999](#): > > I’m going to add 10 more mcg TAF to amp up the signal. With the addition of more TAF the relaxed sensations in my lower body become pleasurable, and there is an added desire to stretch the long muscles of my legs to their fullest. Sounds like TAC and TAF might play well together. EDIT: I also edited my post to make clear what was italicized and what wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/9 "2008-12-17T09:21:21Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > I would say that the **bold** is TAC, the _italic_ is p83, and the underlined is either the p83, or the p83 mixing with TAF. > > Polar? Possibly. They definitely aren’t oriented the same way. But from me experiences, I’d say my experiences were the opposite. p83 is not calming at all, but rather edgy, a bit akin to a comedown.. TAC is calming, a sense of being able to be casual. > > Sounds like TAC and TAF might play well together. People do respond differently to different pheromones. Which one do you think was responsible for the compulsive movements? I think it was TAC. TAC makes me want to stretch. The walk through the house was heavy… that’s why I equate that with P83. P83 when added to a mix always gives me that slow, deep, quiet, still, heavy element. It definitely can bring a mix way down with its heaviness. And yeah, I find it edgy in that it has a strong personality that you can’t mistake for anything else. P83 is never cerebral with me, never enervating, never excitatory. I find P83’s characteristics to be centering and calming, and in some mixes, a bit sexy. Sometimes, I can get really flighty with my mixes. P83 can provide an anchor for me, and that can be a very reassuring part of the experience. I’m still testing TAC and I find its qualities to be more subtle. I haven’t pinned that one down completely yet. I’m doing some P74, TAC, TAA tests later today. Warren and Steve had very different reactions to these and how they play together. P74, for me is very nice, but it has a cerebral quality that sometimes gives me the jitters when I mix it with something else. But I don’t know if that is dose dependent or just the way this molecule plays with some other molecules at any dosage. Anyway there is more testing to be done. 😛 Diane ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/10 "2008-12-17T19:42:05Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > People do respond differently to different pheromones. I don’t deny that. At the same time, I’m sure there are significant similarities between reactions. Otherwise we would never have arrived to the point where we can generalize about -none, -rone, a-nol, b-nol, etc.. From the reports of others, and my personal experiences, TAC is grounding, whereas p83 is edgy. > [@diane999](#): > > Which one do you think was responsible for the compulsive movements? I think it was TAC. TAC makes me want to stretch…P83 is never cerebral with me, never enervating, never excitatory. I find P83’s characteristics to be centering and calming, and in some mixes, a bit sexy. Compulsive movements are definitely p83 to me. I hate to draw parallels between drugs and pheromones, cause they are not even close to being the same, but I’d say my experiences coming down off cocaine or a dirty pill are more akin to p83 than TAC. It’s that nervous, anxious, restless energy that I feel with p83. Especially coke. I get that, “Grr, I wanna fuck, fight, or do something exciting, right now!” feeling. There is definitely a ‘sexy’ (not sure if sexy is the right term, it’s more…dark than that..but not quite ‘lust’) > [@diane999](#): > > The walk through the house was heavy… that’s why I equate that with P83. P83 when added to a mix always gives me that slow, deep, quiet, still, heavy element. It definitely can bring a mix way down with its heaviness. And yeah, I find it edgy in that it has a strong personality that you can’t mistake for anything else. Sometimes, I can get really flighty with my mixes. P83 can provide an anchor for me, and that can be a very reassuring part of the experience. As you said, different people can react differently. Do you get similar reactions with p83 solo? The reason I posted what I did is because the effects you reported are definitely inline with what I know of TAC and p83, but simply switched around. I find it uncanny that those two would exhibit exactly the same characteristics on me as on you, with the exception of which pheromone caused what. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/11 "2008-12-18T02:10:55Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > From the reports of others, and my personal experiences, TAC is grounding, whereas p83 is edgy. It might help if you defined what you mean by “edgy” for me. Are the “others” you mention all men? Other _women_ have reported the slow, still, heavy quality of P83, so perhaps it is a sex determined reaction. > [@Phya](#): > > Compulsive movements are definitely p83 to me. I hate to draw parallels between drugs and pheromones, cause they are not even close to being the same, but I’d say my experiences coming down off cocaine or a dirty pill are more akin to p83 than TAC. It’s that nervous, anxious, restless energy that I feel with p83. Especially coke. I get that, “Grr, I wanna fuck, fight, or do something exciting, right now!” feeling. There is definitely a ‘sexy’ (not sure if sexy is the right term, it’s more…dark than that..but not quite ‘lust’) I can’t speak to or relate to the coming off of drugs part of this, so I don’t really know what you mean here. The one time I tried cocaine (24 years ago) I had a splitting headache for three days afterward and never had the desire to experiment with it again. That is the only thing I remember about it. I’ve never experienced any kind of nervousness or agitation with P83 as long as TAA, P74, or P87 is not in the mix. When those molecules are absent, P83 only adds stillness and weight. > [@Phya](#): > > As you said, different people can react differently. Do you get similar reactions with p83 solo? The reason I posted what I did is because the effects you reported are definitely inline with what I know of TAC and p83, but simply switched around. I find it uncanny that those two would exhibit exactly the same characteristics on me as on you, with the exception of which pheromone caused what. I’m still testing P83 and TAC. I haven’t done either solo, because, to be honest, neither of these molecules is all that exiting to me alone. But in mixes they have the potential to enhance or add a new dimension. So, I have run parallel tests with mixes that substitute only one molecule, and in these I have tested both, switching P83 and TAC. In each case, P83 added massive weight. TAC was more subtle and hard to pin down, but the weight was not there in the mixes that contained TAC, but no P83. I will be running some solo tests of both of these in the very near future and also testing them individually with TAF. I just finished doing a pretty intensive TAA test and I really feel the need for a [pheromone](https://a314.com/shop/) break after that one. Have you run solo TAC and P83 tests? Diane ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/12 "2008-12-18T06:27:48Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > It might help if you defined what you mean by “edgy” for me. > Are the “others” you mention all men? Other _women_ have reported the slow, still, heavy quality of P83, so perhaps it is a sex determined reaction. Probably all men. I don’t always check what forum a thread is in, but most of the threads I come across are in the Men’s forum. I mostly just use search and go from the oldest thread to the newest. It’s very possible there is a sex determined reaction. It’s definitely ‘heavy’ in terms of intensity. p83 kinda permeates the air, like being able to cut the tension with a knife. My reports on p83 might better describe what I mean by ‘edgy’. I think tension is a key word. > [@diane999](#): > > I can’t speak to or relate to the coming off of drugs part of this, so I don’t really know what you mean here. The one time I tried cocaine (24 years ago) I had a splitting headache for three days afterward and never had the desire to experiment with it again. That is the only thing I remember about it. Ooh, that was probably cut with some nasty stuff. Not like I’m am expert on good cocaine or anything, but bad shit definitely hurts your nose, head and anything else the added chemicals touch. Well, do you/did you used to smoke cigarettes? I don’t smoke cigs regularly, but whenever I do, I get a similar feeling though less in intensity. > [@diane999](#): > > Have you run solo TAC and P83 tests? TAC yes, p83 no. The reports I’ve posted on TAC aren’t very detailed at all. I’m don’t think you can get too much information from them. There have been a few other tests that I never bothered posting about. [If it helps you too, great... - #31 by Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/31) > [@If it helps you too, great...](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/123): > > Thanks PS. slight_smile I forgot to mention. I don’t know how much pheromones played a part, but I was stupid and got pulled over. Some people started crossing the street after the light turned green, after having stood there waiting to cross the other way.. Anyways, the cop lets me off with a stern warning. I don’t care if it was the pheromones or not, I was just happy to be home! slight_smile Okay, so last night was pretty good too. I wore 2 sprays of [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/), 1.5 sprays of IH… My experiences with p83 are limited to adding in p83 after a couple hours. This let me see how my current combo was working in a given social situation, then how the dynamics of the situation changed when p83 was introduced. I’ve also used it as part of larger combinations. I don’t know if they will be as helpful since there are many other products and putatives involved. > [@If it helps you too, great...](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/51): > > Can I change this? First off, I lied. I do have a p93 variant mix. It’s mx203. So I have [Instant Gentleman](https://a314.com/product/gentleman/), Instant Shine, Instant Shine (2x), Instant Openness, p74, TAF, and mx203. Don’t ask why I didn’t bring the p93. I should have. DOH! Okay, so I took some notes yesterday. They are a little scattered because they are my observations over the course of three days. I started with 1 spray to the throat, the day after 2 sprays, and today 2 sprays to the throat and 1 spray in my hair. I’m not… > [@If it helps you too, great...](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/68): > > So I don’t have too much to add. I wore 2 sprays of TAF (15mcg/spray), 3 sprays of p79 (5mcg/spray). I was kind of drowsy and sluggish in the morning the combo kind of woke me up and put me in go mode. I wasn’t light on my feet or anything but I was awake and relatively clear. It was a big difference. I immediately got started on whatever tasks, work related, not work related, that I needed to do for the day and didn’t look up at the clock for about 2.5 hours. At lunch (4 hours after TAF + p79) … > [@diane999](#): > > I’m still testing P83 and TAC. I haven’t done either solo, because, to be honest, neither of these molecules is all that exiting to me alone. But in mixes they have the potential to enhance or add a new dimension. So, I have run parallel tests with mixes that substitute only one molecule, and in these I have tested both, switching P83 and TAC. In each case, P83 added massive weight. TAC was more subtle and hard to pin down, but the weight was not there in the mixes that contained TAC, but no P83. Weight? As in, presence? I agree, p83 definitely grabs my attention more than TAC. It would be ‘heavier’ or more intense. TAC is definitely lighter in vibe, not heavy like p83. > [@diane999](#): > > I’ve never experienced any kind of nervousness or agitation with P83 as long as TAA, P74, or P87 is not in the mix. When those molecules are absent, P83 only adds stillness and weight. Seeing how all my mixes include TAA or p74 when I have used p83 and that I haven’t tried p83 solo, I’ll need to try it myself to see if p83 itself brings that sense of nervousness/agitation, or if it’s the result of some combination of TAA, p74, and p83. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/13 "2008-12-18T16:28:15Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > Ooh, that was probably cut with some nasty stuff. Not like I’m am expert on good cocaine or anything, but bad shit definitely hurts your nose, head and anything else the added chemicals touch. Well, do you/did you used to smoke cigarettes? I don’t smoke cigs regularly, but whenever I do, I get a similar feeling though less in intensity. It was very pure rock cocaine. My brother at that time had a connection in Columbia. Thankfully, he got out of the nasty business of dealing drugs before he got hurt. But I do know this was straight from Columbia and not cut with anything. I used about 1/2 of a tack-head’s worth… not sure what that would be in grams… I think I had a meningeal hemorrhage from it. I was about 24 years old at the time, and I consider myself lucky to be alive. > [@Phya](#): > > My experiences with p83 are limited to adding in p83 after a couple hours. This let me see how my current combo was working in a given social situation, then how the dynamics of the situation changed when p83 was introduced. I’ve also used it as part of larger combinations. I don’t know if they will be as helpful since there are many other products and putatives involved. > > [If it helps you too, great... - #51 by Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/51) > [If it helps you too, great... - #68 by Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/if-it-helps-you-too-great/9451/68) > [@Phya](#): > > Seeing how all my mixes include TAA or p74 when I have used p83 and that I haven’t tried p83 solo, I’ll need to try it myself to see if p83 itself brings that sense of nervousness/agitation, or if it’s the result of some combination of TAA, p74, and p83. Please keep in mind for the following that my being female may have some bearing on the effects I’ve been getting. It has been shown very well that some pheromones have a completely different effect on women than they do on men. After reading what is below, if you would like me to PM you the exact mixes I used when testing these molecules for a parallel run, let me know. I’d be very interested in finding out if any of these effects are across the board or if they are sex-linked differences. I tested all of these mixes for self effect and then in actual sexual encounters with my husband. Some of the effects were not apparent until the actual encounters. I feel I have a pretty good handle on what is going on with all those mixes… at least with myself. I haven’t discussed at all my husband’s responses to my mixes, but his responses have been pretty much in-line with my own. The ones I like the best for self effect have him pretty much howling at the moon… 😃 (Okay, his mixes come next!😛) All my best sensuality mixes contain P83, TAC, Meo-Est, Est, Beta Androstenol, P102 or P103, a trace of Copulins, and TAF. I also have mixes with P74, P80, P86, P87, P93, TAA, and Androstenone in addition to the above in various combination and ratios. I’m still testing a good portion of these. The items reported on below are consistent with me with the repeat testing that I have done. \*\* THE CEREBRAL MOLECULES: \*\* _ **P74** _ P74 is a very nice molecule worn alone, or with TAA. It does promote good feelings all around, and promotes harmony. My husband smiles more, is less intimidating, more willing to listen, and is more likely to see the funny side of things when he’s around me and I’m wearing P74. However, I find in my mixes containing P74, but _without P83_, I get a distancing, mental effect that is very distracting from what I’m trying to achieve. When I replace P74 with Est, I still get the wonderful harmonizing effect. P74 promotes happiness and harmony. Est promotes closeness and contentment, without the cerebral distancing of P74. Est also provides an emotional sweetness you don’t get with P74. I find Est enhances relaxation, feelings of warmth for my husband and positive emotional feelings. It enhances the feeling of being in the right place at the right time with the right person. Est also has the added benefit of making my husband’s natural pheromone signature extremely apparent to me. He _smells_ so attractive, I can hardly stay away from him. _(He still thinks I am a little weird when I keep trying to sniff his breath.😛😃.)_ Although P74 is truly harmonizing in social situations, and it is one of my favorite molecules, using P74 in my sensuality mixes consistently causes a distancing from the perception of sensations of physical pleasure, like a medium-to-hard edged observer effect. I consider it somewhat cerebral and physically and emotionally dissociating. This emotional and physical sensation dissociating effect is not at all apparent in social situations, that I’ve seen. P74 and MX274 usually give happy, harmonious vibes. But P74 interferes so badly in what I’m trying to achieve, mainly, to ramp up the experience of physical pleasure and emotional closeness, and Est gives those elements and more, I took it out of my mixes. I have also been using P74 to counter the negative effects of Androstenone in my husband. My husband is sensitive to the negative effects of Androstenone, but he responds very well to the positive effects of P74. One or two sprays is often sufficient to snap him out of Androstenone OD. But I have to be careful because I find that P74 causes extreme agitation in me if I am wearing a sensuality mix that contains P83 and/or TAC. I’m currently looking for a replacement for P74 that counters the negative effects of Androstenone. I think it has been mentioned that P93 is a buffer for Androstenone, and I’m testing that in my mixes now. So far it adds an odd element of wanting to do chores _right now_ in the middle of all the rest of the yummy goodness. 😛 \*\*\*P87 \*\*\* Added to my mixes, P87 ramped up the perception of minute physical cues considerably. It also had a harsh-edged, physical and emotional dissociating effect, much harsher and more pronounced than P74. It caused the complete cessation of feelings of warmth and concern for others. This was total disconnect, and was the coldest molecule I’ve come across. When I used this molecule my sensuality mixes, it turned from a sensual experience into what felt like predator and potential prey, totally negating any physical sensations of pleasure, and negating feelings of love and warmth. If this is a pheromone, it is designed for analysis of other in a very cold and heartless way. At least that was my impression of it. It totally hijacked my mix. (I used the ratios ratios recommended by Warren.) This was the weirdest experience I’ve ever had – to see my husband, who is the center of my universe, in such a cold, harsh, unfeeling light. It isn’t something I ever want to experience again. To be cut off from my emotional and caring connection to my husband, and not even caring that I had lost all that, felt very alien and lizard-like to me… very cold. \*\*\*TAA \*\*\* In my limited experience, TAA plays well with P74. TAA is a very interesting molecule. It lowers the perceptual detail filters that normally are in play. With TAA, details are all richer and each element has equal weight as far as perceptual importance. Visually, edges are crisper, colors are all equally bright and give equal significance. TAA does the same for my hearing, but to a lesser degree. TAA also does the same with physical sensation to my skin from outside stimulation, like the feel of my clothes, or hair on my skin. The changes to the perceptions of sensation to the skin are neither pleasant or unpleasant, just interesting, and a little distracting. TAA also seems to enhance rapid fine motor coordination. It also seems to have a visual cortex stimulatory effect. After using 5 or 6 sprays of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) sprayed to my chest for self effect, I can get very colorful, very detailed and persistent visuals when I close my eyes in a darkened room. It is as if my eyes were still open in a very brightly lit area containing lots of pretty shiny things. So, there is some effect to the visual cortex, I believe. All these things make me wonder if this molecule isn’t tripping the same systems that are activated in LSD use. I believe LSD also has some stimulant effects akin to amphetamines? Is this right? Has anyone tried to OD on TAA alone? In my experience, TAA doesn’t play well with a combination of the major players in the physical molecules. Four sprays of instant shine sprayed on before I used any of my sensuality mixes is enough to cause me to experience extreme agitation, and painful neck and shoulder tightness that can persist up to 12 hours. It also completely blocks all the sensual and pleasurable effects that my successful sensuality mixes normally induce. I haven’t tried to pair TAA with only one of the physical molecules at a time to see if there is anything that works with TAA out of that category. I think there are some. But, since my successful sensuality mixes are giving consistently excellent, mind-blowing results, I really don’t feel the need to do anything except keep TAA far away from them. Sorry this was so long. And an apology, Warren. I didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Diane ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/14 "2008-12-18T18:34:28Z")
You didn’t hijack my thread, Diane. You are making great contributions! Besides I am in no position to criticize someone for hijacking a thread! It’s like this when we can have multiple people making observations from different perspectives (male-female, young-young at heart, etc) that the best discoveries happen about pheromone use. I hate it when there are twenty different threads all on the same topic. I wish people would add to the thread that’s already there. It is a lot easerier to research effects when all the observations on a topic are together! Sorry if I plagiarize your work too much, Diane. I am beginning to wonder when you sleep? > [@diane999](#): > > Hitting the thank you button also awards reps (and leaves a signature!). > Diane THANKS only leaves a rep point of one. The rep button with a heart on it leaves as many rep points as you have Rep Power – a lot more. Isn’t your opinion worth more than someone who’s only made two posts about getting laid with Ammo and who we’ll never hear from again? Do leave your name with your comment, though! **The Diane Doctrine** > [@](#): > > So far in my testing I’m seeing molecules that fall into two broad categories: Physical and Cerebral. > > The Cerebral molecules enhance perception (auditory, visual, sensory), excite mental processes, and seem to have a excitatory activity on the fight or flight response. At higher doses they cause nervousness, hyper-vigilance, higher receptivity to outside perceptual stimulus, increases in analytical thinking or racing thoughts, and/or sleeplessness. They can inhibit relaxation and can block physical response to the sensation of physical pleasure. These are really good for making things pretty, and for noticing details, and for planning, and noticing and thinking about details. > > The analyzing/cerebral/perceptual molecules are: TAA , P74 , P87 > > I am classifying for my own use any molecule that lacks a mental/cerebral/perceptual enhancement quality as physical. > > Something that inhibits unpleasant effects, like fight or flight responses, while allowing all the other pleasant physical responses through, like feeling surprise – to me that is physical. > > Physical molecules encourage physical relaxation or movement, enhance physical sensation and the physical response to sensation, and/or encourage and reward (with pleasure) instinctual behaviors (nesting, fighting, mating). They tend to be automatic and visceral. They can cause sleepiness, clumsiness, and inability to remember or think clearly. These are good for physical activities that don’t require analytic thought or fine motor control. > > The physical molecules are: Androstenone, est, meo-est, beta-androstenol, P102, P103, TAC (possible), P80, P83 (possible), P93, P102, P103; **TAA according to Diane** > [@](#): > > I’ve been testing out TAA today, and I found out some very interesting things about it. It is a cold molecule to me, much colder that TAC. It enhanced the perceptions of all stimuli coming in, but it did so in a way that made each bit of information stand out equally. That held true for sound, sight, and physical sensations. But it also had a distancing/analytical quality. > > I was surprised and dismayed at what I found with TAA. > > TAA completely blocks all the pleasurable sensation enhancement of meo-est and est, even when I used quadruple the dose I normally use. It also blocked the rush of desire that I normally feel with Androstenone. > > So, it is a perception enhancing and appreciation molecule, to be sure. But it will never work in a mix where the object is mind blowing physical sensation and emotional connection. And that is what I’ve started to achieve in my favorite mixes. > > I really don’t like TAA for this kind of mix. It would be great for walking around, taking in the sights, or for appreciating the beauty of someone you are looking at… or out on a date. But when it comes to actually touching that person… nah! It keeps everything way to impersonal, and blocks the purely physical appreciation of touch and feel. **TAC according to Diane** > [@](#): > > Because of the physical pleasant and pleasurable effects I’ve experienced with TAC , and because it is has not given me any definite mental or perceptual effects, I am classifying it for now, as physical, not mental/perceptual. > > TAC is interesting. It promotes stretching movements that lead to relaxation. This is probably what I like about it so much in my sensuality mixes… that need to stretch is very sensual. > > TAC seems to enhances physical sensations… > TAC does promote earth shattering orgasms… > > Hubby responds better to TAA than I do. I love the physical nature of TAC in this mix. I replaced TAC with TAA in a couple of mix trials, and I really missed the TAC . We’ll see. **Discussion: TAA vs TAC** I think this helps to understand the difference between TAA and TAC. I had thought of TAA and TAK as opposites. TAA is here-and-now whereas TAK is abstract/dissociated. I was surprised when Phya discovered that mixing the two gave the wearer an easy choice of jumping back and forth between being fully in the moment and stepping fully out of the picture. With TAA and TAC there does not exist – in my experience – this easy choice. The two pheormones pull in different directions creating distraction and discomfort. What exactly are these different directions that cannot exist together at the same time? To Diane, “[TAA] enhanced the perceptions of all stimuli coming in, but it did so in a way that made each bit of information stand out equally. That held true for sound, sight, and physical sensations.” I experienced this as here-and-now. TAC, it seems, promotes relaxation and enhanced physical sensations. Whereas TAA directs the Auditory and Visual to the external here-and-now, TAC focuses on physical sensations alone, freeing the Auditory and Visual to go their own way – their own way being whereever physical relaxation leads them. With the application of TAC, previously existing short and intermediate term memory structures (Visual and Auditory images) will tend to collapse into a state consistent with physical relaxation. In other words, it is impossible to maintain imagery or understanding of an angry or fearful nature (unless imposed by an outside force powerful enough to overwhelm the TAC). In the collapsing of tension and the mental structures that go with it, we experience hilarity. In an environment which is not normally tense that experience may become sensuality. [In Diane’s case, the ringing telephone and the authoritative voices of TV news were startling or annoying](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/warrens-p83-tac-challenge/24007). They were incongruent with the relaxed state promoted by TAC. When TAA is added to the TAC, the Auditory and Visual vigilance imposed by TAA is constantly disturbing TAC’s physical relaxation. Life becomes a sieries of minor startling annoyances. **TAC is from Venus, TAA is from Mars** It is a grey day in late fall, thirty-five degrees Fahrenheit, wind and steady rain. Let’s take a long walk. For me that’s TAC. It’s a warm summer’s day in Ocean City. Let’s stroll down the boardwalk. For me, that’s TAA. For Diane it is the other way around. An expeditous application of Occam’s razor might suggest that A.P.R. got the labels on the bottles switched! But let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. I prefer TAA in a sensuality mix. So does Diane’s husband. Yet Diane and many women much prefer TAC. I think the enhanced visual is one of the best things about TAA. Men have a reputation for being visual. Might we assume that for women it is a disraction? Spray on the TAC and turn off the lights. One wearing TAC. One wearing TAA. How are man and woman ever going to share the same bed? **Sensuality Mix, Version C** Did she say, “TAC does promote earth shattering orgasms…”? I guess I am going to have to resurrect the TAC version of my [Sensuality Mix](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/self-improvement-w-p86-sensuality-mix/15812). Of course that leaves the issue of the ugly side-effects on myself as described in the first post (Test 11) of this thread. I took all of the TAA out of my mix and replaced it with TAC. Still, when used with Instant Opennes and A314, I got the nasty effects I would expect from combining TAC and TAA. Does any one know for sure if A314 and/or [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) have small amounts of TAA? I’ll bet they do and they built up until, after the third dose, I got the negative side-effects! When I created the TAC version, I went through the entire mix testing each component with TAC in place of TAA. Each pheromone in the same amount had the same effect. I was surprised. The only thing I might change is to add an additonal 2.5mcg MEO-EST. Hopefully the coldness I experience from TAC will be warmed up by the addition of EST. I usually wear A314, Instant Openness and Instant Honesty with my Sensuality Mix. To eliminate the possibility of any TAA sneaking in with my TAC, I will have to replace all of these. I’ll replace Instant Openness with pure Alphanol and Instant Honesty with pure Betanol. A314 is a bigger problem. I wonder if androsteRone and P91 will be good enough for alpha status and respect? Anybody have any suggestions about how much of each? I have some of the old LS version of A314. It has a much more unapproachable quality. I wonder if that is because it lacks the TAA I speculate is in the current version of A314? Or I could use SoE unscented for androsteRone and alphanol. Then I’d still need betanol and P91. Anybody have any other suggestions? I wonder if I need to add the tiny amount of -none which is in A314. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/15 "2008-12-18T19:09:15Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > After reading what is below, if you would like me to PM you the exact mixes I used when testing these molecules for a parallel run, let me know. Sure, I’d love to, but I’m not sure we have the same pheros available to us. I don’t have any Meo-est, Est, pure copulins, pure b-nol, TAA, p80, or p87. I could probably use IS in place of TAA and IH4x in place of b-nol, but even then it wouldn’t be exactly the same. Shoot some mixes over anyways and let’s see what we can do. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/16 "2008-12-18T19:24:26Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > I think this helps to understand the difference between TAA and TAC. I had thought of TAA and TAK as opposites. TAA is here-and-now whereas TAK is abstract/dissociated. I was surprised when Phya discovered that mixing the two gave the wearer an easy choice of jumping back and forth between being fully in the moment and stepping fully out of the picture. With TAA and TAC there does not exist – in my experience – this easy choice. The two pheormones pull in different directions creating distraction and discomfort. What exactly are these different directions that cannot exist together at the same time? Well, comparing TAK to TAC, I feel that TAK is slower and thicker than TAC, it’s like the temperature of a room changing. It happens so slowly that it’s only after a couple minutes you realize you’re warmer. TAK takes a couple minutes to really spread out and get to work. And even then, like the temperature of a room, it simply maintains a presence, it does not grab your attention. TAC on the other hand, is like bringing some fresh baked cookies into the room. Everyone can smell it at once, and your response is quick and automatic: _sniff_ _sniff_ Ooh, cookies! It is much lighter in vibe, it spreads quickly and elicts a quick response, but if the cookies are taken out of the room (TAC), the effect is gone. If you opened a window to let out the heat and cool down the room (TAK), it would cool down but over a longer period of time. To me, TAK and TAA occupy different dimensions. TAC and TAA try and occupy similar dimensions, which results in the conflict. Like TAC, TAA is very quick. It makes it’s impact, blam!, and next thing you know, it’s gone and you’re wondering what the hell that just was. > [@Warren](#): > > In the collapsing of tension and the mental structures that go with it, we experience hilarity. Yea, that’s TAC. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/17 "2008-12-18T20:24:53Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > I prefer TAA in a sensuality mix. So does Diane’s husband. Yet Diane and many women much prefer TAC. I think the enhanced visual is one of the best things about TAA. Men have a reputation for being visual. Might we assume that for women it is a disraction? Spray on the TAC and turn off the lights. One wearing TAC. One wearing TAA. How are man and woman ever going to share the same bed? Actually, what I meant was that my husband responds better to TAA _than I do_. But with the sensuality mixes, his response seems to be better with TAC. Of course, he is flying blind on these runs so I can’t go back now and ask him which molecule he liked better. I did go back to my journal and from what I wrote he responded more aggressively, more strongly to the TAC, and he was more restrained with the TAA. His reactions to me are more immediate with TAC, more cool with TAA. Sorry, Warren! > [@Warren](#): > > **Sensuality Mix, Version C** > > Did she say, “TAC does promote earth shattering orgasms…”? I guess I am going to have to resurrect the TAC version of my [Sensuality Mix.](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-including-p74-p124-effects/23457/14) Uh, yeah, um… I didn’t say those were only mine. And in the case of my husband, it promotes trying really hard not to make enough noise to wake the neighbors, and sometimes not succeeding very well! 😮 > [@Warren](#): > > When I created the TAC version, I went through the entire mix testing each component with TAC in place of TAA. Each pheromone in the same amount had the same effect. I was surprised. The only thing I might change is to add an additonal 2.5mcg MEO-EST. Hopefully the coldness I experience from TAC will be warmed up by the addition of EST. > > I usually wear A314, Instant Openness and Instant Honesty with my Sensuality Mix. To eliminate the possibility of any TAA sneaking in with my TAC, I will have to replace all of these. I’ll replace Instant Openness with pure Alphanol and Instant Honesty with pure Betanol. A314 is a bigger problem. I wonder if androsteRone and P91 will be good enough for alpha status and respect? Anybody have any suggestions about how much of each? > > I have some of the old LS version of A314. It has a much more unapproachable quality. I wonder if that is because it lacks the TAA I speculate is in the current version of A314? Or I could use SoE unscented for androsteRone and alphanol. Then I’d still need betanol and P91. Anybody have any other suggestions? I wonder if I need to add the tiny amount of -none which is in A314. Based on my own experiences, I am finding that when I have a bad reaction between a cold/cerebral molecule and a warmer/physical molecule, the bad effects can last a long time, sometimes 24-48 hours, even with a short lived molecule like TAA. Adding any pheromones (even all hot ones) during this time seems to backfire and put me back in the boat of negative bad reaction – OD land. So, if you really want to give TAC a fair trial, try going completely phero-free for at least a few days. Then try TAC alone and see if you still get that hollow feeling. My feeling is that TAC will flesh out and warm up quite a bit for you. But if it doesn’t, please let us all know. I’m actually going to go back to basics with this molecule and start testing all over again, because of the discrepancies in various reports. It works in my mixes, no doubt there. But I want to do some more extensive testing to try to really nail down this critter. A314 and sensuality mixes… I’ve been thinking of testing the addition of a small amount of Androsterone to my husband’s mixes. (I’m also playing with P80… okay, I’m brave). 😮😃 But, I have to ask you why you wear A314 with yours? Are you in a LTR, or are you looking? If you are looking, are you using it to filter out the wanabees? Normally, A314 gives an “out of your league, babe” attitude. If you are looking, and you want to produce this kind of earth shattering, mind blowing sex experience with your mix, how does a potential partner get close enough to you with A314 on to get comfortable enough to let herself have that kind of experience? I may be making too many assumptions here, and if so, I apologize. 😛 One surprising thing I’m finding consistently. When I test these mixes, even the best ones, when I am out and about, I do not have the libido boost, or the physical pleasure responses that I do when I am not out and about. The self-effects are strongest when distraction is at a minimum, and the heightened desire effects are only evident in the presence of the man I am in love with. If you have any thoughts on that…😉 When there is too much distraction and I am not with my husband, the mix only seems to promote mild sedation, relaxation, and mild clumsiness. All the rockets going off, all the wave-like pleasure sensations, they just aren’t there. So, my mixes are better in already established relationship. They greatly enhance feelings that are already there, strengthen connections that are already there, and make for a fine sexual adventure for the two of us. But without that starting foundation, I’m not sure how effective my mixes would be. Maybe when I iron out a few details in my mixes, we should do some blind trials on a few volunteer male and female guinea pigs with both our mixes. That might be an interesting experiment. What do you think? 😉 Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/18 "2008-12-18T21:31:02Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > Sure, I’d love to, but I’m not sure we have the same pheros available to us. I don’t have any Meo-est, Est, pure copulins, pure b-nol, TAA, p80, or p87. I could probably use IS in place of TAA and IH4x in place of b-nol, but even then it wouldn’t be exactly the same. Shoot some mixes over anyways and let’s see what we can do. Actually, I meant you mix up yours, I mix up mine… only we know which is which. We get someone to test and report for all of them… we have a better handle, ja? Diane ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/19 "2008-12-18T23:18:09Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Actually, I meant you mix up yours, I mix up mine… only we know which is which. We get someone to test and report for all of them… we have a better handle, ja? > > Diane Ahhh, okay. I don’t have any set mixes unfortunately. I could make up some really basic ones, but I’d rather just give my tester either TAC or p83 solo. Then after seeing what their responses are, think up a combo for them to try. I’m a little low on socially aware friends that I’d want to invite into the pheromone world. I’m have even fewer female friends that I’d introduce to pheromones. I’ll keep my eyes open…It might have to wait until I get back to school in a couple weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457/20 "2008-12-19T16:45:19Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > You didn’t hijack my thread, Diane. You are making great contributions! Besides I am in no position to criticize someone for hijacking a thread! It’s like this when we can have multiple people making observations from different perspectives (male-female, young-young at heart, etc) that the best discoveries happen about pheromone use. I hate it when there are twenty different threads all on the same topic. I wish people would add to the thread that’s already there. It is a lot easerier to research effects when all the observations on a topic are together! Aha! You’re right. People’s perceptives are like cuts of a diamond. A diamond is just an ugly lump of a rock without all the different facets! Annnnnnd, that reminds me of something I tried to get a programmer to do awhile back. MHarris wanted me to get someone to make a mod to display a “Similar Threads” list WHILE you were posting, or before you submitted it as individual post. Something spur on additions to current conversations (and possibly reduce questions that have already been answered 100s of times, in every way imaginable) Maybe I should “re-activate” this task. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tac-vs-taa-whats-the-difference-and-can-they-be-combined-with-p74/23457.md?page=2)