# Tale of the Girl & the Sliding Away Chair!!! Did I ghost? A314 + Instant Shine IS **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [January 27, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533 "2016-01-27T06:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PherotheHero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b782af/32.png) [@PherotheHero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PherotheHero)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/1 "2016-01-27T06:14:04Z")
I think I got a great tale that may be too much pheromones but more importantly, there’s a round II. **Setup:** I got some A314 bottle and [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) spray to try from a friend who no longer uses them. This was regular strength IS by the way. I tried for first time today before at work. - A314: 1 drop underside wrist and rubbed my other wrist underside and then top both wrists - theory, to increase dispersion. And then decided to put a 2nd drop on top of left wrist and rub top of other wrist over it. - IS: I then did 3 sprays of IS - 1 on right of neck, 1 on left, and 1 on front adam’s apple area. I presume a spray means pushing all the way down on spray cap. I can tell you immediately after doing this, I could smell the IS very distinctly around me. Kind of a “soapy” smell if I am right. That did freak me out as I know my sense of smell is very week, meaning if I can smell it, other people, can realllllllllly smell it. My understanding that 2 drops of a314 and 3 sprays IS is not unusual from the threads I’ve read for someone 40s/50s. I did wonder if maybe I wasn’t suppose to press so hard down on cap and even on the A314, if my 1 drops were too big of drops. **The Encounter:** I thought that maybe the smell dies down so went to work and kind of stayed away from others for about an hour. I then had a meeting with one of my underlings, about 22/23 year old girl. She is Caucasian and attractive. She wanted me to review a power point presentation that I had assigned her to finalize. We went into a small room and sat side by side in swivel chairs. We started out sitting upright both with our bodies and turned into the middle on swivel chairs with all the printed slides stacked in the middle on the desk for her to turn and go through one by one. She then started going over the slides leaning in as I sat upright. At certain points I would bend forward in to more closely examine specific bullet points, text, images, footnotes, etc. that she was leaning in pointing too. Literally, almost every time I would lean on or just after leaning in to review and comment, she would either continue leaning but slide her chair and sometimes her body in her chair also away from me. It was quite clear. I would lean in and our heads would be inches apart, let’s say around 6 to 8 most and then she would shift over so there was probably at least 12 to 15 inches apart. At least twice or more, she went to full upright and still slid her chair inch or inches away. When she was full upright, that meant somewhere around 2.5 ft., of distance between her head and mine, leaning over the desk looking at the slide, turning my head to the slide to talk and give comments to her. **The Reflection:** It was quite clear she was trying to put distance between me and her. It was so clear that even though I probably would have leaned forward anyway, I became deliberately conscious to lean forward to see how she reacted. I’m in a good mood about it, laughing at how clearly the cause and effect was. At one point I even remarked to her that she can’t seem to sit still and she replied that yeah, she had been drinking a lot of coffee and caffeine makes her jumpy, can’t sit still, etc. Now, I admit, I probably have never leaned in as close as 6 or so inches. This was probably the closest of ever moved my head near to hers. I previously have sat beside her talking or going over a presentation or side on her laptop put probably kept at least a foot of distance between our heads. **Question 1:** So was it the mones? Or the smell, i.e too strong of “cologne?” Though the smell had died down, I still had moments while meeting with her that I could smell and otherwise would catch whiffs of the IS smell. Or is it just me and the mones did not hurt . . . but did not help either. Or, was she so awed by my presence that she had to get out of the kitchen . . . lulz, hey we can dream. Fwiw, the actual verbal interaction, rapport, and tone was good, our discussion and comments with each other, not just about the presentation, but other things, flowed and felt very nice. Did not look for any IOIs etc. mainly because I was so preoccupied with her shifting/sliding away. But again, felt the rapport was nice and easy feeling between us and less awkward and stiff than normal. What do you guys think? **Question 2:** What about round II. Tomorrow, I have another meeting with her and the rest of the group. Will be at a conference table presenting and I will be beside her helping run through the presentation to the group. What should I try? My plan is to go 1 drop A314 and two sprays IS and try to do at least 2 hours before the meeting. Or should I try nothing? And I plan to look for natural moments to lean in close to her. Should I instead keep “normal” distance but see if she moves in to me at all? ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/2 "2016-01-29T01:44:21Z")
Soapy isn’t the smell I’d associate with IS - Its more of a light/fresh orangey scent - and three sprays is quite normal/acceptable if you give it half an hour or so. Unless you got it in another scent of course? Similarly A314 at two drops, esp when well dispersed isn’t an unreasonable amount but it could well be a bit of a start for someone not used to a change in your phero sig. This isn’t ghosting as there is next to no Androstenone in that combination but the status/respect qualities of the A314 may be somewhat incongruent with your body language in this situation. She’s seeing you as a source of advice, inspiration, confidence and professionalism in this kind of situation and your pheros are supporting that wholehartedly - with a pleasant/engaging edge. Instead you should maybe be inviting her to demonstrate that confidence and come physically closer to you rather than getting in-about her personal space. So try dropping the A314 dose for now (you can build it up again in time) and pull-back a little. That way you give her the space/imperative to qualify herself to you, not vice-versa. 🙂 More generally, people can step-back from you a bit when you start with an A314-based signature but as they adapt to it and with positive reinforcement from you, they will in most cases come-through it and be more responsive on many levels. However with people who already know you this can take a while - I found it was about a month before people readjusted properly to my wearing A314. ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/3 "2016-01-29T02:04:33Z")
For reference, which revision or version of A314 was it? And the batch number would be nice too. For me, IS seems to smells like neroli and sweet cooked onions, lol. I wear it with caution in small amounts when I do. ---
**Author:** ![PherotheHero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b782af/32.png) [@PherotheHero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PherotheHero)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/4 "2016-01-29T02:45:57Z")
> [@Conjurator](#): > > For reference, which revision or version of A314 was it? And the batch number would be nice too. > > For me, IS seems to smells like neroli and sweet cooked onions, lol. I wear it with caution in small amounts when I do. Thanks for the input. Wonder if it was the A314 then. See my reply below to Mobocaster As far as batch of A314, I was given the A314 and IS to try from someone who got them years ago and started and for whatever reason decided he didn’t need them and just had them literally sitting in his sock drawer or bathroom closet, etc. I put in an order but A314 is out so I am just went with [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) and other things but trying out the A314 and IS till that order comes. I am going to do an update this weekend as I’ve had interactions as follows: - yesterday - 1 drop a314 and 2 sprays IS, 1 left side neck, 1 forehead - today - no a314 and IS but I just went to smell my wrist and can still smell the a314 so it might have been in the air when I interacted with her 6 hours earlier - tomorrow - another meeting and will try 1 a314 and 3 shine but allow at least 2 hours. I will look to smell my wrist though and make sure clear of any a314 smell. I might also put on some cologne after 10 minutes plus for a covering scent ---
**Author:** ![PherotheHero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b782af/32.png) [@PherotheHero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PherotheHero)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/5 "2016-01-29T03:24:24Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > Soapy isn’t the smell I’d associate with IS Would that be the A314 then? I had a guy, also someone I supervise but senior to the girl/lady and have a really great relationship with, say I had some kind of stench and when I had him smell my wrist, he said that was the smell. > [@](#): > > Instead you should maybe be inviting her to demonstrate that confidence and come physically closer to you rather than getting in-about her personal space. Totally agree that the best is to pull people towards you. Any tip on how exactly prompt her to decide, seek to move to me, ie. inviting her to demonstrate confidence and qualify herself to me. > [@](#): > > More generally, people can step-back from you a bit when you start with an A314-based signature but as they adapt to it and with positive reinforcement from you, they will in most cases come-through it and be more responsive on many levels. However with people who already know you this can take a while - I found it was about a month before people readjusted properly to my wearing A314. Curious of what I should be aware to do or say to positively reinforce. And yes, these people I’ve been working with for 6 months plus. ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/6 "2016-01-29T03:30:35Z")
If it’s the latest version of A314, altough the scent can smell a bit like clean soap, it is sandalwood based. I wouldn’t say it gives off a “bad stench”, because I must refrain my girlfriend from licking the stuff right of my neck when I wear it. So maybe ask a girl instead of a guy for better appreciation (lol). Personnally, I like it. Smells clean and fresh. If it’s a previous version of A314, I believe the smell was [Akuto](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/akuto/) for a lot of revisions. But I have never tried those. I remember reading good reviews about that smell though. There might have been other fragrances too, but my knowledge ends there. Mobo can sure fill in the gaps here. There usually is a small sticker distinct from the main label with version info on it… Either on the side of the bottle or under it. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/7 "2016-01-30T01:49:28Z")
It was [Akuto](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/akuto/), modified with plant musks mostly and yes, it did vary a bit between the Revs - some were more forward than others but it was still fairly light. Is there still a little sticker on the bottom of the bottle? That should tell you what rev/batch it is. Which is important because there has always been some variance in effect/severity between batches. ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/8 "2016-01-30T02:10:34Z")
Thanks for the light Mobo. I’m so curious about the version too. ---
**Author:** ![PherotheHero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b782af/32.png) [@PherotheHero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PherotheHero)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/9 "2016-01-30T03:24:09Z")
**A314 Version and Date:** Thanks for the tip to look at the bottom. Yes, and it’s old. Rev 23. 3/16/10. So I guess that’s [Akuto](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/akuto/). That old. Maybe it went bad? As far as I know it was never exposed to heat or direct sunlight, etc. And I’ve got updates. Will post tomorrow. Thanks for continued comments. ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/10 "2016-01-30T03:25:25Z")
Thanks for that info PheroTheHero. Old revisions should not go bad, except if it was exposed to excessive heat or something. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/11 "2016-01-30T04:06:46Z")
Ahh - Rev23, that explains a lot. 🙂 Yes, it was a bit different scent-wise. Although it was still the modified [Akuto](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/akuto/) scent, Rev23 was a sharper/lighter/cleaner implementation of the scent compared to previous Revs which were richer/warmer and a bit deeper or fuller. A lot of guys hated it at the time, although conversely I found it got me the most positive scent hits from women that I’ve had from **any** A314 Rev, before or since. Phero-wise, although still excellent status professionally, Rev23 was also much more usable for attraction with far less steering than previous revs - although it maybe lacked a bit of the “man of iron” feel compared to older A314s, which was both good and bad, depending on how you wanted to look at it/handle your mixes. If you search back, you will find quite a bit of bickering about it in its first few months - but once people got their new doses and steering sorted, it mostly turned to love! It was also a humdinger for fallout with prolonged exposures and dosing was at the lower end of the scale. I rarely used more than two drops, except maybe in the highest impact mature club mixes but that was not for work/daytime. It keeps fine - I still actually have a bottle on the go, kept in my desk at work for occasional end of day topups/refreshes if its appropriate when I’m going out after. I don’t need to do that so much since I started applying over lotion and got 10-12hrs activity, compared to around 8 without. When an oil goes-off, there isn’t much to debate as it smells rank, sour/sweaty/musty etc - you won’t be putting that-on! 😮 ---
**Author:** ![PherotheHero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b782af/32.png) [@PherotheHero](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PherotheHero)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/12 "2016-01-30T06:34:51Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > Ahh - Rev23, that explains a lot. 🙂 > > . . . . It keeps fine - I still actually have a bottle on the go, kept in my desk at work for occasional end of day topups/refreshes if its appropriate when I’m going out after. I don’t need to do that so much since I started applying over lotion and got 10-12hrs activity, compared to around 8 without. When an oil goes-off, there isn’t much to debate as it smells rank, sour/sweaty/musty etc - you won’t be putting that-on! 😮 Great info! No, it doesn’t smell rank. Just “soapy musky.” I used 1 drop today - rubbed up and down top forearms w/2 sprays IS neck. Will update tomorrow. I’ve seen mention of the lotion trick before - the lotion goes on first and then the A314 and what’s the best lotion . . . I know, I know, search the threads 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/13 "2016-01-30T16:59:30Z")
Any good quality hand lotion is good - just avoid cheap, strongly scented or laden with triclosan products. Use just enough to cover the app points and no more. Give it a couple of minutes to settle into the skin before applying the pheros. You might want to consider changing the primary app points of at least the first drop of A314 - I find it keys-in with your sig better if the frst drop (or two, depending on dose/Rev) goes up around your neck/throat area. I normally only use on drop on the wrists. Socials can be spread further - forearms and the like, think on how an interaction builds. ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/14 "2016-01-30T18:24:59Z")
The lotion strategy sounds interesting Mobo. I’ll try it. I have some wheat-based lotion handy. I suppose it’s all good. Does it matter if there’s a hint of natural menthol in it though? ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/15 "2016-01-30T18:44:59Z")
It works very well for oils but much less-so for sprays - you get a little increase in lifespan but not enough to convince me its worthwhile. The idea is that the lotion settles into the epidermis and helps barrier the skin from over-absorption of the oil itself and by slowing degradation from skin bacteria. The lanolin in natural lotions helps it form a long lasting and flexible barrier, non-lanolin lotions or moisturisers are much less effective and don’t last anywhere as long. Menthol has both antibacterial and antifungal properties, so I’d tend to choose something else around mones. The lotion I use most often has a very light Kaffir Lime scent (called something else in the US IIRC) that is much less potentially damaging and settles so-light its barely detectable after a few minutes. The only penalty I’ve noticed from lotions is that there is a slight reduction in maximum diffusion range but that’s never been a problem in the wild - You always try to work close and work-in closer, so at conversational distances there is no issue at all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/16 "2016-01-30T19:11:15Z")
Thanks. I’ll look for another lotion. Would using a dab of pure lanolin be an option too? ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/17 "2016-01-30T20:13:16Z")
No - far too sticky. You don’t want to glue the pheros to your skin! ---
**Author:** ![Conjurator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/conjurator/32/410_2.png) [@Conjurator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Conjurator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/18 "2016-01-30T21:37:11Z")
Nope, hehe 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![gforcex7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b38774/32.png) [@gforcex7](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/gforcex7)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tale-of-the-girl-the-sliding-away-chair-did-i-ghost-a314-instant-shine-is/65533/19 "2016-01-31T02:18:32Z")
You probably scared her with giving off a high signal with the IS. Also the a314 could give off as a high status vibe. Personally a314 is not good for attracting. At least for me it isn’t. It’s more for work or high profile scene. I’m talking about big lawyers & CEO coming up to me & talking to me about my future. I am in my mid 20’s. Bare in mind these big time lawyers & CEO’s are very reserved. They don’t talk or even wanna look at you if you aren’t highly professional or making $100K minimal annually. That’s just been my experience. Try AMMO with IS. You might have a better shot.