# Testing P87 **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [March 9, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898 "2009-03-09T23:25:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tigerlilly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tigerlilly/32/2257_2.png) [@Tigerlilly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tigerlilly)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/1 "2009-03-09T23:25:38Z")
Product Name, Scent & Strength: P87, 12.5mcg; added 12.5mcg 15 mins later; Total 25mcg Unscented, covered with perfume Application Dosage & Locations: Both sprays to neck Environment Tested In: Self @ home office Self Effects: Whoa… near instant self effects. There was some definite visual effects, a sharpening of the senses, most acutely felt visually. Lots of peripheral stimulation. Seriously increased hearing. I could hear every pop and bubble and fizz in my soda can, and my watch ticking became overly loud. My handwriting suffered - possibly decreased fine motor skills. I was absorbing great amounts of data and information though - almost raw data, raw info. This was true both of sense data (the 5 senses) and information for work. I was prepping for my presentation and was able to whip through creating the whole outline, backed up with documented research, in an afternoon. I was also creatively focused. I followed a logical thought extension to it’s conclusion, then went back and restarted the process. Got some great tangents and additions to my presentation. Normally, I’m sort of a space cadet when it comes to that. 🙄 I’ll veer from idea to idea and have a hard time coming back to base, so to speak. There was a definite heaviness to this phero. Time seemed to slow. I was definitely WAY inside myself, looking out at the world. There was a significant distance with this phero. Definitely a mental phero - nothing really social/extroverted about it. **A cold phero, clinical. Heavy. But powerful. Very powerful. Calm, rational, objective. What you expect was naturally produced by Severus Snape, or Lucius Malfoy. The Death Eater phero. A very powerful mental effect.** Effects to Others: Not tested socially. Would LOVE to see what happens though. Further testing required. Duration of Effects: 4 hours. (pretty standard for me) Range: N/A Time Exposure: Immediate ---
**Author:** ![ariadne](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ariadne/32/770_2.png) [@ariadne](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ariadne)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/2 "2009-03-09T23:49:39Z")
> [@Tigerlilly](#): > > Self Effects: Whoa… near instant self effects. There was some definite visual effects, a sharpening of the senses, most acutely felt visually. Lots of peripheral stimulation. Seriously increased hearing. I could hear every pop and bubble and fizz in my soda can, and my watch ticking became overly loud. Did this last the entire four hours? I get this with quite a few of the putatives and experimones, right off the bat, but it usually dissipates within ~15-20 minutes. Have you tried TAF? Is the focus you saw with this similar to that? ---
**Author:** ![Tigerlilly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tigerlilly/32/2257_2.png) [@Tigerlilly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tigerlilly)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/3 "2009-03-09T23:51:39Z")
This lasted a long time. The whole slew of effects lasted the duration of 4 hours. I have extensively tested TAF (in my journal) - this was markedly different than TAF. It was heavier, colder - TAF can intensify and focus, but it’s still social. This didn’t have a social aspect to it. It had a distancing effect. Cold. I really liked it though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xiphoid](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xiphoid/32/1852_2.png) [@Xiphoid](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Xiphoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/4 "2009-03-10T18:58:18Z")
> [@Tigerlilly](#): > > I have extensively tested TAF (in my journal) - this was markedly different than TAF. It was heavier, colder - TAF can intensify and focus, but it’s still social. This didn’t have a social aspect to it. It had a distancing effect. Cold. I have a feeling this could be awesome for me for times when I need to just hide away in the library and get some reading done… Based on the comment of “decreased fine motor function” I’d better leave it when in the OR though 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Tigerlilly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tigerlilly/32/2257_2.png) [@Tigerlilly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tigerlilly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/5 "2009-03-10T19:00:57Z")
Yeah… no kidding. My handwriting is bad at the best of times, but this was like trying to write while both drunk and underwater. Though I could _see_ it better. If that makes sense…?? And mentally it wasn’t a drunk or underwater feeling - but the fine motor skills were definitely not normal. Brain stem effect? ---
**Author:** ![Xiphoid](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xiphoid/32/1852_2.png) [@Xiphoid](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Xiphoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/6 "2009-03-10T19:33:35Z")
> [@Tigerlilly](#): > > My handwriting is bad at the best of times, but this was like trying to write while both drunk and underwater. And mentally it wasn’t a drunk or underwater feeling - but the fine motor skills were definitely not normal. Brain stem effect? No, I wouldn’t think so…I’d think it’s more likely to be affecting cerebellar function and/or act somewhere on the corticospinal projections and pyramidal tract from the primary motor cortex… ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/7 "2009-03-10T21:23:01Z")
P87 is the Lizard God. It is the coldest [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) I’ve every messed with. I think it effectively blocks any feeling empathy. Warren calls it a strong empathogen because he can so very easily read people with it. But being coldly analytical and being warmly empathic just don’t jive in my book. And this pheromone gives off the vibe of cold predator to me. Diane ---
**Author:** ![Xiphoid](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xiphoid/32/1852_2.png) [@Xiphoid](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Xiphoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/8 "2009-03-10T21:47:04Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Warren calls it a strong empathogen because he can so very easily read people with it. But being coldly analytical and being warmly empathic just don’t jive in my book. How can you be cool & analytical at the same time as you’re empathetic??? 😕 Doesn’t really make sense to me either Diane… Beeing more analytical and thus finding it easier to read people doesn’t equal empathy…🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Tigerlilly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tigerlilly/32/2257_2.png) [@Tigerlilly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tigerlilly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/9 "2009-03-11T00:18:44Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > P87 is the Lizard God. > > It is the coldest pheromone I’ve every messed with. I think it effectively blocks any feeling empathy. Warren calls it a strong empathogen because he can so very easily read people with it. But being coldly analytical and being warmly empathic just don’t jive in my book. And this pheromone gives off the vibe of cold predator to me. > > Diane An empathogen is a two way street though…? Are other people feeling connected, or are they able to read you? If not, I dont get the “empathogen” thing… ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/10 "2009-03-12T00:40:39Z")
p87 = the ability to understand others states in a cold observational way without feeling a personal emotional resonance. feels v unpleasant in high doses. [The Partial Psychopath - The Natural Child Project](http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/partial_psychopath.html) > [@](#): > > In our experience, the dimension that correlates most closely with psychopathy and which has been identified or is implicit in all definitions of the illness is the concept of empathy, but empathy defined in a specific two-part way. > Empathy is loosely thought to be the capacity to put yourself in another person’s shoes. But this seems to be only one part of what constitutes empathy in relation to the psychopath. What is different about the psychopath is that he is unaffected or detached emotionally from the knowledge that he gains by putting himself in your shoes. Thus, although he is able to very quickly glean during the briefest encounter with another person a lot of very useful information about what makes that person tick, this knowledge is simply knowledge to be used or not as the psychopath chooses. What is missing in psychopaths is the compelling nature of the appropriate affective response to the knowledge gained from putting himself in another persons shoes, in the way that this happens in the normal person. This essential missing aspect of empathy, even in the severe psychopath, is not in my experience easily seen and one does not often get a second glimpse of it if one has been treated to a first one by mistake. > > A rather crude example might suffice. A young psychopath who had inflicted multiple stab wounds on an elderly woman, and was charged with attempted murder, appeared subdued and appropriately sad about the offence during the early stages of a first interview. His eyes were moist as he accurately described how the woman must have felt during and after the attack. But later in the same interview, after good rapport had been established, this boy blurted out, “I don’t know what all the fuss is about. The old bag only had a dozen scratches.” To my knowledge, in all his subsequent years in the psychiatric hospital, he stuck to all the right lines of remorse which he quickly learned were more appropriate and useful. The bright psychopath, the experienced psychopath, doesn’t stumble like that very often. > > With luck and the right question about how the other person’s feelings affected him there will be a barely perceptible pause, or a puzzled look, or even – rarely - the question, “How am I supposed to feel?” > > The second part of this two-part empathy for the normal person is the automatic, compelling, intuitive, appropriate response to what the other feels - not the acting out of a chosen script. The psychopath can follow the same script as a normal person, usually with all the subtle nuances of a skilled actor - if he chooses to do so. An untrained observer is very unlikely to note any difference from the real thing. > > Thus the second part of this two-part empathy in a psychopath is the choosing and acting of a script. Unlike the normal person, he can choose what script to follow. He is not compelled intuitively or automatically to react to the way he knows you feel. And unlike the normal person, he has been told, or learned by observing others, what he is supposed to feel. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/11 "2009-03-12T02:59:32Z")
That is exactly what I don’t like about P87 - it blocks the emotional resonance you normally feel with empathy. It is just plain predatory. I really don’t like it. Diane ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/12 "2009-03-12T03:49:45Z")
sometimes one really has to wonder what might be the purpose of these more esoteric [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) in nature. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/13 "2009-03-12T05:14:38Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > sometimes one really has to wonder what might be the purpose of these more esoteric pheromones in nature. Well, I think this one might have some survival benefit if you were in a traumatic situation where you had to analyze data coming in very quickly without getting bogged down by that pesky little thing called a conscience. Just a thought. Diane ---
**Author:** ![saranox](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/saranox/32/1212_2.png) [@saranox](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/saranox)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/14 "2009-03-12T07:15:02Z")
> [@Tigerlilly](#): > > **A cold phero, clinical. Heavy… Calm, rational, objective.** lol, that sounds like my bf. i’ve been considering buying this, perhaps it’ll give me a better idea what goes on in his head. but does it disappate playfulness? because where’s the fun in being a superheroin if you can’t show off a bit? ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/15 "2009-03-12T07:23:04Z")
> [@saranox](#): > > lol, that sounds like my bf. > i’ve been considering buying this, perhaps it’ll give me a better idea what goes on in his head. > but does it disappate playfulness? because where’s the fun in being a superheroin if you can’t show off a bit? I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, this pheromone really negates all warm emotions. So, I couldn’t call it fun under any sense of the word. It is \ ***cold**. \*Diane ---
**Author:** ![saranox](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/saranox/32/1212_2.png) [@saranox](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/saranox)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/16 "2009-03-12T07:40:49Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, this pheromone really negates all warm emotions. So, I couldn’t call it fun under any sense of the word. It is _ **cold**._ > > Diane oooh… _rubs hands_ _wishlist_ ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/17 "2009-03-12T08:03:52Z")
> [@saranox](#): > > oooh… _rubs hands_ > _wishlist_ \ I don’t even want to know. Diane ---
**Author:** ![saranox](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/saranox/32/1212_2.png) [@saranox](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/saranox)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/18 "2009-03-12T08:06:12Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > \ I don’t even want to know. > > Diane heh. i’ve read good things about [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/), perhaps you should buy some. ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/19 "2009-03-12T15:52:36Z")
> [@saranox](#): > > heh. > i’ve read good things about Instant Shine, perhaps you should buy some. hi saranox! welcome to the forum. im going to help you out a little here, this is a good-sized forum and things can get easily overlooked :o if you look under members avatars, you will be able to see when they arrived to the forum. this doesnt mean they dont have earlier use with pheromones, but just that it is the date they signed up. i think you were probably joking, but Diane probably has more experience with the products here than some of the people who _make_ pheromones in a lab! 😃 i would do some reading,kiddo. you have to try the product before you can recommend them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/20 "2009-03-12T15:55:01Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > p87 = the ability to understand others states in a cold observational way without feeling a personal emotional resonance. feels v unpleasant in high doses. > > [The Partial Psychopath - The Natural Child Project](http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/partial_psychopath.html) wow this was more appropriate than originally intended ! 😃 [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898.md?page=2)