# Testing P87 **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [March 9, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898 "2009-03-09T23:25:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 30
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898/30 "2009-03-12T19:49:29Z")
Here are some excerpts from [my earlier post](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p87-the-brain-clutter-cleaner/19709/11) on P87: > [@](#): > > With P86, P87 definitely seems to be an empathogen. When I do – or when I did empathy counseling – I get a set of feelings in my body as I open up to being receptive to the other person’s feelings. With P87 I do not get those feelings – I am not intentionally trying to be empathic. This is why I overlooked the empathogenic effect at first. It didn’t feel like empathy. > > As I understand empathy, it is a see-feel. It begins with seeing a person in the real world and then feeling vicariously in oneself what is witnessed of the other’s expressions, mannerisms, posture. In an empathy couselling venue this would be verbally reflected back to them. Of course, there would be a hear-feel aspect, as well, but it is the see-feel that strikes me when wearing P87. … In order for P87 to be an empathogen, it has to orient oneself to the external world without shutting down internal processing. It does not make me more alert, vigilantly scanning the horizon at the expense of internal thought. It filters my visual perceptions to enhance my awareness of others’ feelings. > > One of my complaints about P86 was that I could get rather depressed over fairly petty things. So far, P87 seems to eliminate that risk. Tacitus said, “depression is blown away but not replaced by euphoria.” And Pheroquirk believes it changed his emtional state and made him friendlier. It seems this could be – in part, at least – the result of being oriented to the external rather than being allowed to loop endlessly though one’s negative internal bullsh\*t. > > I am searching for the best P86:P87 ratio. In equal mcg amounts, the aesthetic enhancement from P86 gets lost. If I ask myself, “How do people look,” I notice it is still there. People still look pretty good, but that gets pushed to the background and an awareness of their emotional state takes over. In the big city, that is often pretty tense, hurried, tired, annoyed. I want to be able to try this amongst a bunch of joyful, radiant people and see if that comes through as clearly. > > Tacitus describes P87 as “intellectual intimacy vs. an emotional intimacy.” P87 is definitely not as cold as P81. … I want a mix where I am aware of people’s beauty (and they are complimenting me again) and the awareness of their emotional state is faded just slightly to the background, readily available when desired. … So far it has been amazingly difficult to drown out the P87 with relatively larger ratios of P86. I suspect that ten to twenty percent P87 is going to be right. … Instead of seeing a female and going, “Jeez… What a stressed out woman! Too bad, 'cause she’s not unattractive.” I wanna be thinking, “What a beautiful lady, and I understand just how she feels!” What’s important is accurately describing the effects of P87, but I think you all are confusing empathy with sympathy. I am going to stay with _empathy_ for describing P87. It is a cold empathy – an empathy without sympathy. Diane says it blocks feeling. I do not concur. P87 certainly does not encourage compassion by itself, but with P86 and [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) I feel plenty of warmth. You have to get it from someplace other than the P87. That is not a bad choice to have. Just as one cannot realistically feed and shelter every homless person you see on the streets of a large city, I cannot allow myself to fall in love with every pretty face. As I noted above, P87 has strong effects which will drown out everything else with cold empathy. It needs to be used in small amounts relative to other pheromones in a mix. I see why Diane is wary of wearing it around her husband, who she knows and loves. When you are meeting people though, it provides vital information and you control the level of warmth and connection with other pheromones. I have found that I like a ratio of 5:1 P86 to P87. That is what I was wearing last night along with a little more TAF than usual, P75 and 15mcg TAC. That seemed to bring out the cold empathy a little too much. There is still a lot to learn about how P87 interacts with other pheros. For me the most meaningful description of sociopathy is that, unlike the neurotic who is defending against guilt (and the anxiety that comes with it), the sociopath is defending against shame. As a child he received such deep narcissistic wounds that feeling any weakness ever again is unbearable. This Peter Braunstein guy destroyed his life defying a woman’s rejection. PheroQuirk’s psychopath is psychologically incapable of allowing himself to identify emotionally with his victim’s weakness but takes pride in tricking the psychiatrist into believing he does. He must win at all costs even if it means losing big in the long run. I can see where P87 might appeal to a sociopath, but not _only_ to a sociopath. I do not experience anything inherently evil in P87. --- _[View the full topic](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/testing-p87/26898)._