# The best mones to pick for guys who want to remain a challenge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [September 12, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001 "2013-09-12T12:00:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/1 "2013-09-12T12:00:16Z")
Any tips…? I’m following a laid back game plan where I let the woman do a lot of initiating especially (physically).. I am not rushing into sex and when its time for that I’ll KNOW a woman wants it because her buying signs will be on her terms (sooner or later depending on the woman). (BTW for those of you who think this approach is too laid back keep in mind i’m approaching and planning to date dozens of women.. ) My questions to you are which mone signature compliments this vibe best? It needs to show interest yet RESTRAINT.. It needs to be sensual not sexual because I’m looking for LTR not ONS. Do you have any favorites? IS AMMO sounds good on paper but I think its too polite and bingo like no matter what game one plays. p75 is too aggressive and dominating.. I don’t want to dominate I was to stimulate slowly a womans interest until SHE decides to escalate on her schedule.. Of course I’ve got time limits but they’re rather relaxed. Tuth is just plain sexual. Any takers? I am using a game plan I don’t want to discuss here as I’m waiting for it to arrive in the mail, however, it is based on being a challenge, being polite, and being humorous. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/2 "2013-09-12T12:12:11Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > Any tips…? > > I’m following a laid back game plan where I let the woman do a lot of initiating especially (physically).. I am not rushing into sex and when its time for that I’ll KNOW a woman wants it because her buying signs will be on her terms (sooner or later depending on the woman). (BTW for those of you who think this approach is too laid back keep in mind i’m approaching and dating dozens of women.. ) > > My questions to you are which mone signature compliments this vibe best? It needs to show interest yet RESTRAINT.. It needs to be sensual not sexual because I’m looking for LTR not ONS. > > Do you have any favorites? > > IS AMMO sounds good on paper but I think its too polite and bingo like no matter what game one plays. > > p75 is too aggressive and dominating.. I don’t want to dominate I was to stimulate slowly a womans interest until SHE decides to escalate on her schedule.. Of course I’ve got time limits but they’re rather relaxed. > > Tuth is just plain sexual. > > Any takers? > > I am using a game plan I don’t want to discuss here as I’m waiting for it to arrive in the mail, however, it is based on being a challenge, being polite, and being humorous. [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) 30 mcg. -eNone 5-10 mcg. I always use P75/None equally to counter male aggression (always works; women don’t care, they aren’t repelled at all). Any woman within ten feet will sniff out and investigate, especially if the wearer is visually attractive and has a nice scent. After that the mones have done their job. You do the rest. But with the P75, that shouldn’t be a problem. I disagree: P75 really isn’t intimidating to women at all. One of the best posts in the history of this board. Seriously, we need to offer him some incentives so his girl friend will test and report more the stuff he wears. SomeoneOrNot, please irresponsibly update your journal! > [@SomeoneOrNot's irresponsibly updated journal](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/someoneornots-irresponsibly-updated-journal/56263/86): > > I have a friend, female, age 26, who I like to get to smell various pheromones and give me her impressions. I don’t tell her anything about them beforehand, but she’s very good at giving me detailed descriptions of how things make her react. Oddly enough, she’s also very good at giving me descriptions which match up with reported effects of various things, or observed effects of various things - and while it isn’t a double-blind test or anything I’m trying to provide as little prior info or cues… - P75 - “Mmmmmm…that smells [grabbed it back from my hand] - this one is complex. I feel like, the person wearing this could protect me. I’m all giggly and girly, it makes me want to wear a dress. You should wear this one by itself around [girl of interest]. But not at work. Definitely not at work, it’s too flirty.” (It also made her pupils dilate and she was blushing.) \*The girl is right. The first time I ever wore the stuff was two sprays from a 5 mcg freebie. It doesn’t bother women, only men. It’s great by itself. Seriously Alpha Warrior. Martial. Not A314, but good (better) in clubs because it projects out so far above the crowd. Throw in some -eNone to fish out the girls looking for sex. I will tell you though, dsouza. I know everybody’s tastes are different. I am not a bad ass looking guy at all. I dress and look like a youngish middle-aged businessman. I’m not understanding why so many guys have trouble testing 5-10 mcg P75. Except for the cost, I’d have no trouble going into any bar or club and wearing 30 mcg. Done it. Love it. I don’t give a sh\*t what people think. Never had woman one put off by it…unless she was too insecure to deal with the power and leadership it projects. Women say they want a masculine guy, but some don’t walk the talk. ---
**Author:** ![SS108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SS108](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SS108)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/3 "2013-09-12T12:43:27Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > P83 30 mcg. -eNone 5-10 mcg. I always use P75/None equally to counter male aggression (always works; women don’t care, they aren’t repelled at all). Any woman within ten feet will sniff out and investigate, especially if the wearer is visually attractive and has a nice scent. After that the mones have done their job. You do the rest. But with the P75, that shouldn’t be a problem. I disagree: P75 really isn’t intimidating to women at all. > > One of the best posts in the history of this board. Seriously, we need to offer him some incentives so his girl friend will test and report more the stuff he wears. SomeoneOrNot, please irresponsibly update your journal! > > [SomeoneOrNot's irresponsibly updated journal - #86 by SomeoneOrNot](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/someoneornots-irresponsibly-updated-journal/56263/86) > > - P75 - “Mmmmmm…that smells [grabbed it back from my hand] - this one is complex. I feel like, the person wearing this could protect me. I’m all giggly and girly, it makes me want to wear a dress. You should wear this one by itself around [girl of interest]. But not at work. Definitely not at work, it’s too flirty.” (It also made her pupils dilate and she was blushing.) > > \*The girl is right. The first time I ever wore the stuff was two sprays from a 5 mcg freebie. It doesn’t bother women, only men. It’s great by itself. Seriously Alpha Warrior. Martial. Not A314, but good (better) in clubs because it projects out so far above the crowd. Throw in some -eNone to fish out the girls looking for sex. > > I will tell you though, dsouza. I know everybody’s tastes are different. I am not a bad ass looking guy at all. I dress and look like a youngish middle-aged businessman. I’m not understanding why so many guys have trouble testing 5-10 mcg P75. Except for the cost, I’d have no trouble going into any bar or club and wearing 30 mcg. Done it. Love it. I don’t give a sh\*t what people think. Never had woman one put off by it…unless she was too insecure to deal with the power and leadership it projects. Women say they want a masculine guy, but some don’t walk the talk. Nice post. Thank you, very informative. If you have a moment, can you discuss your experiences with high dose P75 (up to 30 mcg! ) with regards to females - how does, say 5 mcg P75 compare to say, 30 mcg? Which buffers if any do you use? TAA seems appealing, so does Bnol. Is eNone needed here, as the females seem to get turned on by P75 alone? I’m thinking: 30 P75 + 30 [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/) + 50 Bnol and/or 50 TAA (Perhaps NPA?) Please advise if you have a moment. (Dont give a flying f\*uck about what the guys think, just the ladies, hehe). ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/4 "2013-09-12T12:51:06Z")
> [@SS108](#): > > Nice post. Thank you, very informative. > > If you have a moment, can you discuss your experiences with high dose P75 (up to 30 mcg! ) with regards to females - how does, say 5 mcg P75 compare to say, 30 mcg? > > Which buffers if any do you use? TAA seems appealing, so does Bnol. > > Is eNone needed here, as the females seem to get turned on by P75 alone? > > I’m thinking: 30 P75, 50 Bnol and/or 50 TAA ? > > Please advise if you have a moment. (Dont give a flying f\*uck about what the guys think, just the ladies, hehe). P75 has its best value in music clubs. 10 mcg will do it, but 30 will for sure fill the room. Don’t be surprised to see women (and even men) circling your sphere from a long distance away. It’s when they get close that -eNone and P83 will work best. P75 is the ideal -eNone buffer overall, and high doses almost demand it. -eNone generally affects women primed and seeking to hook up. P83 arouses most women any time and decreases distance. P75 is really about social proof. Girls not only sense the power it projects, but wonder about the mystery of a man projecting it. They also wonder how it intimidates other men. Know this: -eRone and -eNone aren’t uncommon. Women are well aware of these [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/). I feel 75 is. “Who is this mystery man who projects such power.” Like A314, it will get you talked about. Unlike A314, it broadcasts over 10 feet or more in most climates. Try the 2.5 mcg 30 mL. Use four sprays on the neck and arms. Test it by itself. If your game is strong and you’re under 40, you may not need any None or anything else. It pairs well with 314. You may occasionally read from SteveO that he made a discovery. A pheromone that counteracts many of the downsides of high None. I made the same discovery on my own. Whether you call it P75 or Androstanone, I can’t imagine wearing any heavy None without it. However, you don’t need anything else with 75. That alone will do most of the heavy lifting. And it won’t negatively affect women who are not in the right phase of their cycle to be None receptive. It’s like -eRone, but with none of the downsides of raw Rone. Rone doesn’t do much except in a blend like 314. For the love of all things pink and squishy, if Androtics just makes a None/P75 consumer product at 2.5, 5, and 10 mcg (equal amounts of each molecule, or .5 m c g None per 1 of 75), I think you have a winner. Add a good fragrance. Cheap. Sustainable Golden 13 molecules. All the power of dosed -eNone with no sh_t test aggression from drunk b_stards with a chip on their shoulder. A fantastic club mix. Dead simple. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/5 "2013-09-12T13:29:10Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > P75 has its best value in music clubs. 10 mcg will do it, but 30 will for sure fill the room. Don’t be surprised to see women (and even men) circling your sphere from a long distance away. It’s when they get close that -eNone and P83 will work best. P75 is the ideal -eNone buffer overall, and high doses almost demand it. -eNone generally affects women primed and seeking to hook up. P83 arouses most women any time and decreases distance. P75 is really about social proof. Girls not only sense the power it projects, but wonder about the mystery of a man projecting it. They also wonder how it intimidates other men. Know this: -eRone and -eNone aren’t uncommon. Women are well aware of these pheromones. I feel 75 is. “Who is this mystery man who projects such power.” Like A314, it will get you talked about. Unlike A314, it broadcasts over 10 feet or more in most climates. Try the 2.5 mcg 30 mL. Use four sprays on the neck and arms. Test it by itself. If your game is strong and you’re under 40, you may not need any None or anything else. It pairs well with 314. > > You may occasionally read from SteveO that he made a discovery. A pheromone that counteracts many of the downsides of high None. I made the same discovery on my own. Whether you call it P75 or Androstanone, I can’t imagine wearing any heavy None without it. However, you don’t need anything else with 75. That alone will do most of the heavy lifting. And it won’t negatively affect women who are not in the right phase of their cycle to be None receptive. It’s like -eRone, but with none of the downsides of raw Rone. Rone doesn’t do much except in a blend like 314. > > For the love of all things pink and squishy, if Androtics just makes a None/P75 consumer product at 2.5, 5, and 10 mcg (equal amounts of each molecule), I think you have a winner. Add a good fragrance. Cheap. Sustainable Golden 13 molecules. All the power of dosed -eNone with no sh_t test aggression from drunk b_stards with a chip on their shoulder. A fantastic club mix. Dead simple. Say I’m not a night owl and not into clubs, what ratios of p75 , none, and p83 would you recommend? Why did the O.P. say 75 works best ON ITS OWN in the post that got nominated? I have used 75 for months.. I know what its capable off.. you’re right it is that confident , humourous, no fear vibe. However, my game got me in trouble.. It made me so confident I made crutial mistake like touching a woman first instead of letting her chase me and being a challenge. Now that I’m be working on game a lot I’m wondering if p75 is really too threatening for a baiter’s approach (getting a woman to chase). On a side note p83 had caused all sort of anxiety and self loathing thoughts for me.. I had discontinued use of it after all my tests. None is a tough one.. it works for me in products like EVOLVE (Non AD) but not when its not balanced. [P75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) has always required a lot of buffer for it to be successful for me.. IS IO IH… I see none of this in your post.. How is this p75 suddenly a puppy? It was a raging Doberman last year. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/6 "2013-09-12T15:14:40Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > Say I’m not a night owl and not into clubs, what ratios of p75 , none, and p83 would you recommend? > > Why did the O.P. say 75 works best ON ITS OWN in the post that got nominated? > > I have used 75 for months.. I know what its capable off.. you’re right it is that confident , humourous, no fear vibe. However, my game got me in trouble.. It made me so confident I made crutial mistake like touching a woman first instead of letting her chase me and being a challenge. > > Now that I’m be working on game a lot I’m wondering if p75 is really too threatening for a baiter’s approach (getting a woman to chase). > > On a side note p83 had caused all sort of anxiety and self loathing thoughts for me.. I had discontinued use of it after all my tests. > > None is a tough one.. it works for me in products like EVOLVE (Non AD) but not when its not balanced. P75 has always required a lot of buffer for it to be successful for me.. IS IO IH… I see none of this in your post.. How is this p75 suddenly a puppy? > > It was a raging Doberman last year. In that post I linked (I nominated it BTW), you hear feedback from a _woman about what a man_ is wearing. Did you read it? Remember what Michael Harris said long ago about None and Rone (I treat 75 like R o n e)? Women respond to None during a _short_ period of their cycle and are often repulsed otherwise. Too often, the boards (all of them) become an echo of hearsay. We haven’t had a quality report from women on 75 in a long while. What do they say when a man wears it? It is the lack of this data that limits us. Yeah, you can wear 10 mcg of None in a club. Random chance says one will be horny for it. Many won’t be. Doesn’t mean it’s bad. How many times has it been said that TUTH (especially two sprays) is primarily a bedroom product? _When dating, only use Turn Up The Heat when the woman is comfortable enough with you to take things to the next level (this usually requires a minimum of 4-7 hours spent together at different venues). If necessary, add one additional spray every time you meet, up to a maximum of 5 sprays total._ “I went to the club with 5 mcg of None and women I’ve never met didn’t respond.” Care to count how many threads every _week_ say this? If you are going to use None, use equal or \> mcg of [P75](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p75/). Frankly 2.5:5-10 is fine micros. 1-3 mcg of None sends a potent sexual signal nearly every woman can feel. Young girls can feel 1 mcg. If you really want to understand it, make a 1 m c g spray. See how different 1, 2 and 4 are. Everyone is so damned obsessed with androstenone, even though experts like Kohl and M Harris have said it really isn’t the primary attractor. It’s good for turning **relationships** sexual and escaping friendzone…it’s also great for getting you ignored for its predatory vibe. It has its place in a balanced product like AMMO or A314. Nobody ever proclaimed TUTH for first dates or cold intros in clubs. - THAT’S why -none mostly gets women hot and bothered when they’re ovulating, then generally repulses them when they’re not (so they won’t break it off with the nurterer). -MH > [@My Journal (With and Without the Pheromones)](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-journal-with-and-without-the-pheromones/25396): > > I read one of Tisha’s posts about recording reactions before using the [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) so I’m making my first entry today before I purchase my products (Still waiting on my Gift card frowning But I should get them soon hopefully!) Sooooo here it goes. These are the results I got today throughout the course of 9 hours. (9:00 am to 5:00 pm) Btw, I am female, I’m 19, and a freshman at a private University in Missouri Are they open and friendly ? Going by classes: Spanish: No hits Math: one pers… P75 projects **masculine strength** (to which many women are _attracted_) without the sexual nature of -eNone…quintessentially Alpha…that state of being we all say we are or want to be–or wish we were but aren’t. If you can rock 10 mcg by itself and succeed, you are an Alpha candidate. What does None signal? Sexual dominance. For those women who fantasize about being _taken and_ ravished _by a man, heavy None sends that signal. Why do you think the IJ description in the store says “kick a puppy?” You have to determine a general None level based upon age. 1 mcg will work, but I’ve tested higher. I really lean against going above 5 these days. Just isn’t needed. Fickle. Very fickle. 75 is rarely fickle. Frankly, the color and feel of 2 sprays 314 feels like a potent None dose to me. Buffered well. But 75 will perform better in large rooms. And you will need some None to turn it sexual…After_ attraction has taken hold. Use 20-30 m c g 75 in rooms 700-1300 sq ft. ---
**Author:** ![SS108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SS108](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SS108)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/7 "2013-09-12T15:46:47Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > In that post I linked (I nominated it BTW), you hear feedback from a **woman** about what a _man_ is wearing. Did you read it? Remember what Michael Harris said long ago about None and Rone (I treat 75 like R o n e)? Women respond to None during a _short_ period of their cycle and are often repulsed otherwise. Too often, the boards (all of them) become an echo of hearsay. We haven’t had a quality report from women on 75 in a long while. What do they say when a man wears it? It is the lack of this data that limits us. Yeah, you can wear 10 mcg of None in a club. Random chance says one will be horny for it. Many won’t be. Doesn’t mean it’s bad. How many times has it been said that TUTH (especially two sprays) is primarily a bedroom product? > > _When dating, **only** use Turn Up The Heat when the woman is comfortable enough with you to take things to the next level (this usually requires a minimum of 4-7 hours spent together at different venues). If necessary, add one additional spray every time you meet, up to a maximum of 5 sprays total._ > > “I went to the club with 5 mcg of None and women I’ve never met didn’t respond.” Care to count how many threads every _week_ say this? If you are going to use None, use equal or \> mcg of P75. Frankly 2.5:5-10 is fine micros. 1-3 mcg of None sends a potent sexual signal nearly every woman can feel. Young girls can feel 1 mcg. If you really want to understand it, make a 1 m c g spray. See how different 1, 2 and 4 are. Everyone is so damned obsessed with androstenone, even though experts like Kohl and M Harris have said it really isn’t the primary attractor. It’s good for turning **relationships** sexual and escaping friendzone…it’s also great for getting you ignored for its predatory vibe. It has its place in a balanced product like AMMO or A314. Nobody ever proclaimed TUTH for first dates or cold intros in clubs. > > - THAT’S why -none mostly gets women hot and bothered when they’re ovulating, then generally repulses them when they’re not (so they won’t break it off with the nurterer). -\* MH > > [My Journal (With and Without the Pheromones)](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-journal-with-and-without-the-pheromones/25396) > > P75 projects **masculine strength** (to which many women are _attracted_) without the sexual nature of -eNone…quintessentially Alpha…that state of being we all say we are or want to be–or wish we were but aren’t. If you can rock 10 mcg by itself and succeed, you are an Alpha candidate. What does None signal? Sexual dominance. For those women who fantasize about being _taken_ _and ravished_ by a man, heavy None sends that signal. Why do you think the IJ description in the store says “kick a puppy?” You have to determine a general None level based upon age. 1 mcg will work, but I’ve tested higher. I really lean against going above 5 these days. Just isn’t needed. Fickle. Very fickle. 75 is rarely fickle. Frankly, the color and feel of 2 sprays 314 feels like a potent None dose to me. Buffered well. But 75 will perform better in large rooms. And you will need some None to turn it sexual…_After_ attraction has taken hold. Use 20-30 m c g 75 in rooms 700-1300 sq ft. Insane, your above two responses are insane. Thank you, so much I do not know. Just excellent. Priceless: “Know this: -eRone and - eNone aren’t uncommon. Women are well aware of these pheromones. I feel 75 is. “Who is this mystery man who projects such power.” Like A314 , it will get you talked about. Unlike A314 , it broadcasts over 10 feet or more in most climates.” I hate to bother you more, but have you tried cops with P75? I have a product from another vendor which is basically eNone + cops, its potent stuff, I need very little. Not that I care a lot but the cops may make P75 more palatable shall we say with regards to males? Though I dont know if it will come off too man whoreish with the ladies. Lastly, say I want to use the following combo: 30 mcg P75 Dose + 30 P83 + TAA and/or Bnol, would you be able to suggest dosages for the last two items (TAA and Bnol), or am I buffering too much? Would the TAA/Bnol dosages change if I threw in some eNone? And finally, is P75 similar to eNone in the sense that the more you use, the less attractive it is to younger women? Thanks again man, really appreciated, I mean it. ---
**Author:** ![sharkndragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sharkndragon/32/426_2.png) [@sharkndragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sharkndragon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/8 "2013-09-12T16:07:07Z")
monesmadedoit has become one of my favorite members, for that reason. Nearly everything he writes is like that, and it’s all educated, and tested, not just hearsay. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/9 "2013-09-12T19:09:13Z")
> monesmadedoit > > **“I went to the club with 5 mcg of None and women I’ve never met didn’t respond.” Care to count how many threads every _week_ say this? If you are going to use None, use equal or \> mcg of P75. Frankly 2.5:5-10 is fine micros. 1-3 mcg of None sends a potent sexual signal nearly every woman can feel. Young girls can feel 1 mcg. If you really want to understand it, make a 1 m c g spray. See how different 1, 2 and 4 are. Everyone is so damned obsessed with androstenone, even though experts like Kohl and M Harris have said it really isn’t the primary attractor. It’s good for turning relationships sexual and escaping friendzone…it’s also great for getting you ignored for its predatory vibe. It has its place in a balanced product like AMMO or A314. Nobody ever proclaimed TUTH for first dates or cold intros in clubs.** -- If I could summarize your point then, you are saying stay away from adding in none during pickup and 1st dates? And only add in small amounts of it the more dates you have? I would think by your reponse the best approach would be to rock 75 at 2.5-10 mcg (I can only handle around 5.0 mcg on most occasions) with no none for pickup, and then carry an atomizer with 1.0 mcg none in it and spray on 1 squirt first meeting, 2 second meeting, 3 third meeting, 4 or 5 club setting. Am I getting this right? Chicks I have in mind are between 23 and 35 years old. According to the gameplan manual I bought age is pretty irrelevant if you play the cards the way they’re dealt in the book. It has been shown all women of all ethnicities respond to this universal game. I already have p75. p83 has caused problems , its best i stay away from it. You say use p75 by itself but I have found it to be very harsh on my own mind as well as intimidating to many women by itself. I have always had better luck mixing it with IS IO, and even IH. You yourself have said in prior posts that p75 by itself needs socials as a buffer (I’m not talking sexually charged club environments here). I am liking p75 e-none and will try your method of different enone dosages. Can you point me out to where you got the enone.. You don’t mention using tuth. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/10 "2013-09-12T19:49:04Z")
Use the ICM ratios as a guide for your mixes. Treat [P75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) as -eNone. I have not used cops. They send a signal that you have just had unprotected sex and not showered. Their best use would be social proof and a bit of female competition/jealousy. They could destroy an LTR already in place. [Is ICM the MX301, MX302, MX303, MX304 Test Pack ? - PheroTalk Pheromone Research Forum](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-icm-the-mx301-mx302-mx303-mx304-test-pack/31340/6) My thinking with P75 has evolved quite a bit. This is a necessity. More testing should bring new data. Old ideas must yield to new thinking. I like the potent 5-10 mcg dose without socials. Alone with one woman, I would merely back it down rather than buffer it. I accept that I am becoming more Alpha by being unapologetically male. It will alienate some women…who are not my type anyway. The non-P75 or non-A314 is not my type. I don’t need her. Just buy straight up ExperiMone None at 2.5 mcg in the 30 mL. Will last forever. Dilute it in half with perfumer’s alcohol. Will last forever+. Talior your mcg per girl and per situation, starting with 1.25 for women under 30. 2.5 is acceptable for 30-40 age. I like the novelty of P75 and A314. I know that I’m likely the only man in any room wearing either (especially the combo). None is far from novel. Every guy has it. I’m not every anything. But you do need some None in there from either 314 or elsewhere to send a masculine sexual signal. The signal is, “I have a penis, but it’s not hanging out.” It sends the clear I don’t want to be friends message. I am a man. Like me or b\*gger off. Next contestant. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/11 "2013-09-13T00:18:35Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > **Just buy straight up ExperiMone None at 2.5 mcg in the 30 mL. Will last forever. Dilute it in half with perfumer’s alcohol. Will last forever+. Talior your mcg per girl and per situation, starting with 1.25 for women under 30. 2.5 is acceptable for 30-40 age.** I’m placing my order for 2.5 mcg none today in30 ml bottle. Question.. Regarding dilution.. Can you explain the process of dilution? Where do I get perfumers alcohol, and how do you dilute it in half ? I am assuming your using a togo.. If you fill the togo with sprays of experimone.. How many togo sprays = 1.25 experimone none? This could be helpful for anyone trying to mix. Also you once mentioned you mix p75 and experimone none.. That is altogether different.. If you still recommend that explain that process please! I personally think since each woman is going to tolerate a different amount of none adding in experimone none gradually throughout the night is better than mixing with p75.. What do you think? On subsequent dates, Start off with 1 mg and up it to 2.5 mcg none by the end of the night. On casual meetings and first dates start off with 1 mcg none just to show you have a set of balls. As for your great AD mix idea, I think as more of us test this mix of yours we’ll be able to gather more experimental data so that if it pans out as a overnight success AD will take notice and possibly introduce a mix automatically. John Sebastian, are you listening? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/12 "2013-09-13T12:37:40Z")
Let me try to address some of these points step by step. 1. What we’re talking about here is a _ **combination** _. You are spraying P75 and -eNone onto the skin. It is unnecessary to combine them. Of course, some users have prepared their own mixes in one bottle. That’s a matter for another day. 2. Androtics sells Perf. Alc. in a 30 mL bottle. You would get P75 in 30 mL as well. Presently, I think they are out of pipettes and empty TOGOs. A commercial glass atomizer is acceptable or an empty 30 mL bottle. They should be cleaned in Isopropanol and dried before use. 3. Use 10 sprays of your alc. and 10 of your P75 into an empty container. You would have approx. 1.25 mcg per spray. 4. The purpose of the spray is to \*gradually \*increase **sexual tension**. To me, pure None requires no cover fragrance (beyond neroli for diffusion) and lasts \> 8 hrs. 5. 10-30 mcg P75 will carry a distance of _several yards_, under ideal conditions. It is a useful (if limited) A314 alternative and \*controls \*male \*\*aggression \*\*from -eNone uniquely, when used in mcg _equal or \>_ than None. * * * > [@Sexual hits with nols: Anol's playful feel versus Anone's raw passion](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/sexual-hits-with-nols/23441): > > I was just wondering with the heavy Anol products like IO and IH…has anyone found that the high amounts of ANol or Bnol reduce the sexual hits that they get when combined with your usual amount of Anone? Like for example using TUTH and IO…5mcg Anone and 10mcg ANol per spray. Not a 1:1 ratio…just wondering if these ratios still get sexual hits or not? Anyone chime in please? I’m just contemplating if I should even be worrying about getting too much Anol. That it might kill the sexual effects/hit… _"[TUTH](https://a314.com/shop/) is designed to lead you to a definite “close” (a sex close)._ _Early dates are often getting to know you._ _I usually like to keep sex out of the equation entirely, because this is unlike most guys, and will cause the woman to go insane. I’d use light touching and affection, sure, but nothing major._ _If you do this, and still give her a great time, she’ll then be relieved later on when you make things hotter and heavier (with pheromones or otherwise)._ _If you have some sort of relationship with her going where you talk on the phone before hand, wear the [TUTH](https://a314.com/product/turn-up-the-heat-tuth/) on nights when you can detect something extra sexy and saucy in her voice._ _The body speaks through the tone of the voice. Through tone, it says things the words won’t._ _Especially women, who want you, as the man, to take responsibility for everything spicy. Most of their sexual expression is not of the “come right out and say it variety”. They’ll say it alright… in ANY way OTHER than using straightforward words."_ - MH * * * I prefer A314 (soon, the oil) for _fallout_. Once established, the 1.25 spray allows precise turning up the **heat**. Doubling from 1.25 to 2.5–the to 3.75…you’ll know quickly if things are going well or when to back off. The female is primed to seek the 314 Rone Man when not fertile, the None Man (Bad Boy) when she is. **Be Both**. But know when to go heavy on None and when to back off. By the time you’ve finished testing that ExperiMone, you’ll know all about it. > [@Evolutionary psychology: -Rone men and -None Men](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/evolutionary-psychology-rone-men-and-none-men/19/2): > > There’s nobody here yet. I may as well chat with myself a little. The two men are: the wise, competent, long lived, nurturing, money-making fatherly type and the not so wise, often unreliable and short lived, not so caring, wild child “bad boy” type The second, of course, often describes a young man, as well. Boys will be boys, and the more wreckless ones seldom have the chance to become men. Not that they all kill themselves off with wreckless behaviour - some merely grow physically, and n… What’s he’s talking about in the post above is called cuckholdry in social science…and USA daytime TV. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/13 "2013-09-14T00:32:04Z")
Went out with 5.0 mcg p75 yesterday night. At first I thought it wouldn’t be initimidating to women.. then i found out it gave me the equivalent of a caffeine high and crash.. It made me wired and alert yet not relaxed at all.. I also noticed hundreds of women in the mall who I past didn’t glance at me or if they did they would turn away immediately. So tell me do you really think this p75 stuff works well without buffers? In my experience it doesn’t. It was one of the worst standalones at 5.0 mcg I have ever used. To top it off it left me stoned and silent.. I felt I couldn’t relax enough to even initiate with women.. It was as if I had drunk 6 cups of black coffee when my body can only tolerate 1 cup of mild coffee. Know what I mean? Results: ZERO. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/14 "2013-09-14T03:09:22Z")
I’ve never had any mall hits, but we agree that P75 is in the top selling putatives. I also understand you have self effects limitations with most products. Most pheromones have a range of about 5 feet. P75 is closer to 10. Few hit in less than a few minutes. Who did you talk to face-to-face and for how long? 1. What have you tested? 2. What can _you_ tolerate (of those)? 3. Of that narrow set, which has yielded any results? 4. What mones have you used successfully on private dates (over drinks, dinner, etc.)? 5. What standalones _have you used_ with success? 6. What haven’t you tested yet? 7. Using this approach in the mall, what products have worked for you? * * * Wait a minute… I knew I remembered this convo. It was the **Swiss Chalet**. I wrote: _The safest and truest thing you’ve got would be the 5 mcg of 75 and as many sprays [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) as you can handle. 75 can hit in seconds by itself. In fact, I’d use it by itself. The reason is that the impact is clear and strong. If you don’t want it unbuffered, add the [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) ._ You wrote: _Ahh 5.0 75 and 8 sprays [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) .. Now that I have already used when I picked up the bartender chick whose a solid 12/10._ - Like I said, it’s not bad. You: _Do you remember my post from about a week back on the forum.. I stated I used 5.0 - 7.5 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram)[p75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) 4 [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) and 1 [ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) and I got irritable, looked angry and felt like no one wanted to look at me at the mall._ I don’t see a problem with the mones necessarily or the targets. Why are you not using the combo I suggested with bartenders? Why are you testing mones at the mall. You got results with 5 mcg 75 and heavy IO. The mones **cannot do all the heavy lifting**. Back the P75 down to 2.5 and use 4+ sprays of I O. If you go over that you’ll get blanking. That’s as good as it gets. Why mess with success? You had a successful combo. I use 75 without buffers (sometimes, not always) to exploit the _bad boy_ effect. I want the raw vibe. I’m not looking for wallflower girls but the ones who can bite off and chew a piece. **Black widows**. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/15 "2013-09-14T06:41:42Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > I’ve never had any mall hits, but we agree that P75 is in the top selling putatives. I also understand you have self effects limitations with most products. Most pheromones have a range of about 5 feet. P75 is closer to 10. Few hit in less than a few minutes. Who did you talk to face-to-face and for how long? > > 1. What have you tested? 2. What can _you_ tolerate (of those)? 3. Of that narrow set, which has yielded any results? 4. What mones have you used successfully on private dates (over drinks, dinner, etc.)? 5. What standalones _have you used_ with success? 6. What haven’t you tested yet? 7. Using this approach in the mall, what products have worked for you? > > * * * > > Wait a minute… I knew I remembered this convo. It was the **Swill Chalet**. > > I wrote: _The safest and truest thing you’ve got would be the 5 mcg of 75 and as many sprays [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) as you can handle. 75 can hit in seconds by itself. In fact, I’d use it by itself. The reason is that the impact is clear and strong. If you don’t want it unbuffered, add the [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) ._ > > You wrote: _Ahh 5.0 75 and 8 sprays [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) .. Now that I have already used when I picked up the bartender chick whose a solid 12/10._ - Like I said, it’s not bad. > > You: _Do you remember my post from about a week back on the forum.. I stated I used 5.0 - 7.5 [mcg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgram) [p75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) 4 [IO](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) and 1 [ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) and I got irritable, looked angry and felt like no one wanted to look at me at the mall._ > > I don’t see a problem with the mones necessarily or the targets. Why are you not using the combo I suggested with bartenders? Why are you testing mones at the mall. You got results with 5 mcg 75 and heavy IO. The mones **cannot do all the heavy lifting**. Back the P75 down to 2.5 and use 4+ sprays of I O. If you go over that you’ll get blanking. That’s as good as it gets. Why mess with success? You had a successful combo. > > I use 75 without buffers (sometimes, not always) to exploit the _bad boy_ effect. I want the raw vibe. I’m not looking for wallflower girls but the ones who can bite off and chew a piece. **Black widows**. Yes 75 at 7.5 mcg was disaster for me in all my reports.. 2.5 - 5.0 worked well with buffers like IO. You are right i went for dinner at the mall and the cafes I visited etc where the servers go out of their way to serve me and talk to me sometimes at great lengths looked like they wouldn’t even stick around me nor make eye contact with me for even a second. 75 + IO did get me a bartenders attention and drink date.. That did work out. I had posted that a while back. But my best catches are with women working in the mall. The mall is composed of a good 1000 women so it shouldn’t be hard to catch a good 50 on the lookout for a man.. I find stores where women outnumber men are good, Cosmetics, fashion etc Problem is women in these places are very intimidated by an aggressor’s signature. Shops I purchase at every month are good places to catch women.. Especially if they’re booths run by only 2-3 candidates. In that case these women see me on a routine basis. My best success at the mall has come with EVOLVEXS or AMMO IS for some reasons.. [P75](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p75/) doesn’t fair well there. Could just be a question of environment. ---
**Author:** ![hankypanky2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hankypanky2/32/597_2.png) [@hankypanky2](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hankypanky2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/16 "2013-09-15T02:20:29Z")
so is this p75 better than nude alpha + cohesion xs?? I have never heard anyone praising p75 on other phero forums. Reviews say nude alpha + cohesion xs is ultimate love combo. i am interested to know how p75 is better. There’s only a few reports giving feedback on p75, whereas Na + cohesion has tons of reviews. Na has androstenone and cohesion xs has Androstadienone. So are u saying these are not as effective as Androstanone? ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/17 "2013-09-15T04:51:44Z")
Let me walk the plank as far as I can here. Some people argue that AndrostAnone (NOT androstEnone) is P75. Some companies list that molecule on their labels. People who’ve used both products differ strongly. Some companies list conjugated (sulfated) DHEA, called DHEA S on their label. This is naturally occurring steroid metabolite found in urine. Could P75 be conjugated androstAnone? Your guess is as good as mine. Androtics has some clever chemists able to tweak molecules to produce something that isn’t quite easy for a competitor to copy. It’s a business, and every business has trade secrets. You will see far more discussion of AndrostAnone elsewhere than of 75, because 75 isn’t a named molecule. Next time you see a truly compelling treatise on enantioselective reactions in the [pheromone](https://a314.com/shop/) context from the self-styled _experts_ on one of these message boards, drop me a line. I made my avatar as a sort of Rosetta stone. Someone with minimal scholarship will know what it is…and others won’t. Street cred. Kohl is the only one I’ve ever seen publish anything scholarly (Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality, for example). 'Nuff said. > **[Stereoselectivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoselectivity)** > > In chemistry, stereoselectivity is the property of a chemical reaction in which a single reactant forms an unequal mixture of stereoisomers during a non-stereospecific creation of a new stereocenter or during a non-stereospecific transformation of a pre-existing one. The selectivity arises from differences in steric and electronic effects in the mechanistic pathways leading to the different products. Stereoselectivity can vary in degree but it can never be total since the activation energy An en... ---
**Author:** ![hankypanky2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hankypanky2/32/597_2.png) [@hankypanky2](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hankypanky2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/18 "2013-09-15T07:16:41Z")
dude on lacroy website it says AndrostENONE: > [@](#): > > is the most powerful pheromone substance, found in both males and females. It’s very effective at what it does, mainly associated and giving off a male dominating aura or alpha type aura. This pheromone helps the person get noticed more and gets the Edge over . [http://www.lacroy.com/research.htm](http://www.lacroy.com/research.htm) ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/19 "2013-09-16T11:53:58Z")
> [@hankypanky2](#): > > so is this p75 better than nude alpha + cohesion xs?? I have never heard anyone praising p75 on other phero forums. Reviews say nude alpha + cohesion xs is ultimate love combo. > > i am interested to know how p75 is better. There’s only a few reports giving feedback on p75, whereas Na + cohesion has tons of reviews. Na has androstenone and cohesion xs has Androstadienone. So are u saying these are not as effective as Androstanone? I think of p75 as a day late, dollar short. It’s been eclipsed by much better products out there IMHO and I’ve used p75 extensively for 1 year. I don’t know much about nuda alpha and cohesion, but I have been getting off the wall hits with EvolveXS and some game. I mean with the oil version. It’s unbelievable now that I’m learning to use high none products after 2 pm (when my natural test levels are lower) I don’t seem to OD on them.. I can put on evolve OIL at 2 pm and be good till 2 am in the morning! [P75](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p75/) was my king, but the king got dethroned with Evolvexs. Evolvexs is my staple now.. Its STEALTH. Women don’t see the attraction building until its too late.. they just see social comfort.. By the time a half hr has gone by suddenly they think its THEIR idea to jump you bones. You just have to have patience and not jump them right away…Wait till they show obvious signs of getting horny. Evolvexs works daygame and nightgame.. Had especially good results in it with younger women (20’s). 20 mcg buffered none is hard to ignore fellows. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![SS108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SS108](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SS108)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/20 "2013-09-16T17:36:25Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > I think of p75 as a day late, dollar short. > > It’s been eclipsed by much better products out there IMHO and I’ve used p75 extensively for 1 year. > > I don’t know much about nuda alpha and cohesion, but I have been getting off the wall hits with EvolveXS and some game. I mean with the oil version. It’s unbelievable now that I’m learning to use high none products after 2 pm (when my natural test levels are lower) I don’t seem to OD on them.. I can put on evolve OIL at 2 pm and be good till 2 am in the morning! > > P75 was my king, but the king got dethroned with Evolvexs. > > Evolvexs is my staple now.. Its STEALTH. Women don’t see the attraction building until its too late.. they just see social comfort.. By the time a half hr has gone by suddenly they think its THEIR idea to jump you bones. You just have to have patience and not jump them right away…Wait till they show obvious signs of getting horny. Evolvexs works daygame and nightgame.. Had especially good results in it with younger women (20’s). 20 mcg buffered none is hard to ignore fellows. > > YMMV Its a bit unfair to compare a putative to a multifaceted mone formula. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001.md?page=2)