# The best mones to pick for guys who want to remain a challenge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [September 12, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001 "2013-09-12T12:00:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sharkndragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sharkndragon/32/426_2.png) [@sharkndragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sharkndragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/61 "2013-09-26T10:02:01Z")
**Estratetraenol** , also known as **estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3-ol**, is a chemical compound produced by [women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman) [1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-1) that has been described as having [pheromone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheromone) like activities in primates, [2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-2) including humans. [3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-3) [4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-4) [5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-5) [6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estratetraenol#cite_note-6) It is derivative of the [sex hormone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone) [estradiol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol), an [estrogen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen), yet has no known estrogenic effects. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/staggerlee/32/984_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/62 "2013-09-26T10:03:34Z")
Yeah, I am familiar with that much, shark 😃 but I want to know what its place is in Evolve, what does it do, what is its side effects, that sort of thing ---
**Author:** ![sharkndragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sharkndragon/32/426_2.png) [@sharkndragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sharkndragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/63 "2013-09-26T10:05:24Z")
Hahaha Yea, OK I posted it as smart ass response. I honestly have no idea what it is or how it reacts in mixes, but the more I read the more I’m intrigued. ---
**Author:** ![XyzN](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xyzn/32/2416_2.png) [@XyzN](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/XyzN)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/64 "2013-09-26T17:53:51Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > Yeah, I am familiar with that much, shark 😃 but I want to know what its place is in Evolve, what does it do, what is its side effects, that sort of thing It’s a pheromone pregnant women release, which has a calming effect. It’s place in Evolve my guess is that you’re easier to be approached. There are two types: **Plain Est**., which is almost perfectly safe to wear, see steve-o’s quote below Then there is **Meo Est** , which I think True Pheromones uses in one of its mixes, but is deemed dangerous to wear > [@SS108](#): > > Meo Est, with is methyl alkylated, MAY also pose liver toxicity issues. Not worth the risk IMHO. Some may spray the stuff on clothing but then my question is, how easily does the stuff wash out and how do you guarantee that you or somebody else does not make skin to clothing contact? > > ( Which I know from first hand > experience can cause a huge spike in estradiol levels, confirmed > by actual blood work, also gained 4 pounds in water weight). From Steve-O himself on **plain Est.** : > [@SteveO](#): > > From what I have been told by numerous persons now and as I understood pheromones, regardless of synthetic or not, the hypothalamus is unable to decipher what is synthetic from human produced. On a molecular level they are identical to the brain, thus the results you see. We also have the blood brain barrier so not really a chance to enter the bloodstream that way either. There is of course absorption through the skin, but its so little, a person would nearly have to bathe in them to get even a small amount into their blood. Even then there are numerous reports of persons who have had blood work done with no difference between before and after pheromone use. I will admit this doesn’t say much though as I’m sure they weren’t testing specifically for hormone changes. > > My professional opinion is you would get more exposure to EST just being around women in general. To alter your internal hormonal structure you need to get the ectohormone to act as a hormone by entering your bloodstream. From everything I have ever read, researched or been informed ectohormones do not enter the bloodstream thus converting them to hormones. > > There are also white papers available that have determined that while EST is a derivative of the “estradiol, an estrogen, yet has no known estrogenic effects.” > > Here’s an old PTalk post by Tisha that does a good job explaining the blood brain barrier as related to oxytocin: [Oxytocin: when will you have a product that contains it? - #18 by tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin/25533/18) [thread not found] ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/staggerlee/32/984_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/65 "2013-09-26T18:28:45Z")
Okay, so is this MEO EST that I’m putting on my skin here, or plain EST? ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/66 "2013-09-27T00:30:37Z")
I asked Steve about Estradiol and if you look at his FORUM on PheromonesXS website you’ll see he claims that no dangerous compounds or side effects can come from it.. He has already made the CLAIM in his response to his clientelle. Furthermore, he says it is supplied in such small amounts that it is virtually negligible and cannot cross the blood brain barrier. SEE HIS RESPONSE ON HIS FORUM. ---
**Author:** ![XyzN](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xyzn/32/2416_2.png) [@XyzN](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/XyzN)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/67 "2013-09-27T08:59:07Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > Okay, so is this MEO EST that I’m putting on my skin here, or plain EST? Steve uses the regular Est. in his Evolve. Also looked at True Pheormones, it is their True Love bonding mix that contains Meo-Est > [@](#): > > True Pheromones TRUELove™ – **MEO-EST** Meo is probably a heck more potent than plain Est, but is probably riskier to wear to your health (as a man). ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/68 "2013-09-28T08:09:41Z")
After reading through this thread several times and going back to the main question: “What are the best mones for men who want to remain a CHALLENGE”, I have come to the assumption that the aggressive mones like p75 and a314 are not that appropriate. For example, if a beautiful woman has been chasing you for 9 months and you have ignored her, or simply chit chatted with her but never even so much as come on to her or asked for her # and you suddenly, go on the offensive like a dobermann who hasn’t eaten in 3 days, what do you think her reaction would be? Of course! You’d drive her the hell away. This is why I think evolve works so beautifully _although there are others that are good too_ – it allows you to remain stealth, not coming on to a woman, just socializing, and then bang her hormones hit an all time high and she’s ready to basically attack you in the best possible way. With aggressive signatures like a314, p75, and a host of other hit them over the head products it is fine when you’re the aggressor from the start, but not when you’ve been chased for 9 months and are now awakening and ready to go dating these same women… Know what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/69 "2013-10-01T18:42:44Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > This is why I think evolve works so beautifully _although there are others that are good too_ – it allows you to remain stealth, not coming on to a woman, just socializing, and then bang her hormones hit an all time high and she’s ready to basically attack you in the best possible way. > > With aggressive signatures like a314, p75, and a host of other hit them over the head products it is fine when you’re the aggressor from the start, but not when you’ve been chased for 9 months and are now awakening and ready to go dating these same women… > Know what I mean? No, I don’t. If Evolve is unequivocally superior to all blends in our solar system, then further conjecture is purposeless. Unless…your mind holds unstated doubts??? 🙄 In the course of human history, the masculine, confident, powerful male is usually a winner. I see few downsides here. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/70 "2013-10-01T19:34:38Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > I asked Steve about Estradiol and if you look at his FORUM on PheromonesXS website you’ll see he claims that no dangerous compounds or side effects can come from it.. He has already made the CLAIM in his response to his clientelle. Furthermore, he says it is supplied in such small amounts that it is virtually negligible and cannot cross the blood brain barrier. > > SEE HIS RESPONSE ON HIS FORUM. Some of the molecules in his _and other companies_’ products are suspected neurosteroids, like THDOC. They are also suspected pheromones. Their mechanism is _unknown_. They may act by allosteric modulation of neurotransmitters, affecting mood by unknown paths in the central nervous system. Thus, P75, P102, TAF, etc. can cause neurotransmitter depletion, headache, agitation, insomnia, etc. in certain persons. They may alter endocrine feedback loops, shifting homeostatic balance. This is why females are highly prone to eating disorders but men are not. It is wildly more complex than I can begin to state here. The blood-brain barrier isn’t necessarily a factor as much as alteration of _CNS function_ by unknown means. Hormone levels could (it depends) be altered by “pushing” endocrine feedback loops in a certain direction. We can’t cure eating disorders, etc., because we just don’t know how it works. **The prenatal migration of GnRH neurosecretory neurons allow [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) to effect GnRH pulsatility, which modulates the concurrent maturation of the neuroendocrine, reproductive, and central nervous systems, thus influencing the development of human reproductive sexual behavior and other behavior.** > [@question: pheromone biosynthesis pathways](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/question-pheromone-biosynthesis-pathways/31828): > > Warning: Newbie questions here. I’m wondering if there is available a diagram that maps out how the body synthesizes various [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/). Specifically, something that shows things like “testosterone breaks down in the body into this, and this is excreted onto the skin, where this bacteria changes it into this”, etc… I’m interested in this for two reasons. First, it might give clues as to why certain pheromones have certain effects. For example, a pheromone that is produced by a process that … ---
**Author:** ![hankypanky2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hankypanky2/32/597_2.png) [@hankypanky2](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hankypanky2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/71 "2013-10-02T01:01:30Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > No, I don’t. If Evolve is unequivocally superior to all blends in our solar system, then further conjecture is purposeless. Unless…your mind holds unstated doubts??? 🙄 In the course of human history, the masculine, confident, powerful male is usually a winner. I see few downsides here. True if there was one perfect product then that would be all that sell. There are many great products out there. However I just don’t think it’s [P75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) or A314. I’ve read they are status mones but a bit intimidating, so I opted for P83 and TAC for it’s unique uses. ---
**Author:** ![Wyatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wyatt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wyatt)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/72 "2013-10-02T01:57:58Z")
> [@SS108](#): > > …Its not as simplistic as stating that using xyz est product will feminize you in the first few hrs of usage or over 2 months etc…We are talking about long-run effects having to do with estrogen build-up. I value my dick, and I want to keep it functioning optimally. And the fact is, we are all very new to the phero game, so I prefer to err on the side of caution. There are tons of great products which do not contain Est or Meo Est. > > There is a reason why Androtics, Liquid Alchemy & Alpha Dreams do not use Est or Meo Est. Well on the estrogen, meat eating probably a much bigger factor long term. All the biomagnification of all the pesticides and herbicides that are dumped on their feed and you can be for sure the vast majority of the animals in the industry aren’t organic fed. Ditto on all the hormones and antibiotics jacked into them. (Back when I was still a meat eater my doctor prescribed eating chicken to clear a bladder infection, not because chicken is innately good for you, but because they’re so jacked up on antibiotics as is). I intend to check out Est and Meo-est, but plan to spray them on my clothes. Edit: As for the main point of this thread, I found Kimba’s [MX297](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/mx297/)+P83+TUTH+IH (b-nol) is a great combo for pulling numbers and setting up future dates with women. It takes a lot of over the top game to pull off. ---
**Author:** ![hankypanky2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hankypanky2/32/597_2.png) [@hankypanky2](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hankypanky2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/73 "2013-10-02T02:45:20Z")
> [@Wyatt](#): > > Well on the estrogen, meat eating probably a much bigger factor long term. All the biomagnification of all the pesticides and herbicides that are dumped on their feed and you can be for sure the vast majority of the animals in the industry aren’t organic fed. Ditto on all the hormones and antibiotics jacked into them. (Back when I was still a meat eater my doctor prescribed eating chicken to clear a bladder infection, not because chicken is innately good for you, but because they’re so jacked up on antibiotics as is). > > I intend to check out Est and Meo-est, but plan to spray them on my clothes. > > Edit: > > As for the main point of this thread, I found Kimba’s MX297+P83+TUTH+IH (b-nol) is a great combo for pulling numbers and setting up future dates with women. It takes a lot of over the top game to pull off. Info on Est and Meo Est: > [@](#): > > ESTRATETRAENOL ~ EST is naturally produced only by pregnant women. It inspires the nurturing protective feelings that people (both men and women) have towards pregnant women. It creates an air of vulnerability, and is “ultra” feminizing, called “female magic” by some in the phero trade. Can make men behave very chivalrously, encourages cuddling, and can be a serious turn-on for some kinds of men. It makes the wearer feel adored, inspires others to be cherishing and extraordinarily helpful and solicitous. Many men find it calming and soothing. Some women report the feeling of girlyness or “ditsy-ness” when wearing a high dosage. > However, not everyone responds to EST the same way… it’s a relatively rare effect, but some people are irritated by vulnerable or weak women, and as a subconscious chemical signal, it can frighten off some men…in the same way as an unexpected pregnancy can send some men screaming for the hills. This last effect seems to happen most often with heavier dosing and with younger men. > Other names: EST, Est > .:_~_:._.:~:._.:_~_:._.:~:._.:_~_:._.:~:._.:_~_:._.:~:._.:_~_:. > METHOXYESTRATETRAENONE aka MEO-EST ~ Meo-Est is an equine (horse) hormone excreted in the urine of pregnant mares and only produced in humans in cancerous cell tissue. It is sold by some companies as a less expensive alternative to authentic EST (aka Estratetraenol), because authentic EST is the most expensive molecule on the market. There have been studies showing that Meo-Est is such a strong carcinogen, that anywhere it touched human skin they could see cellular abnormality…cancerous skin cells. Now, it was not reported the strength that was used for that testing, it might have been astronomically high - way higher than the concentration used in any commercial phero product. To put it in perspective - for example, the FDA has removed saccharine from its list of cancer-causing items because the sheer volume that was used in the rodent testing was so unreasonably huge, that no human would ever ingest that much. This MIGHT be the case with the Meo-Est testing as well, but to be on the safe side, LPMP chooses not to include this molecule in any or our products. Another well-known pheromone manufacturer acknowledges the potential risk of using Meo-Est directly on the skin, but still offers it, suggesting that it only be sprayed on clothing, because in their opinion, it still has pheromonal benefits. A third manufacturer offers it without any health warning at all. It is our opinion that this molecule be avoided. Using genuine EST may be more expensive, but it comes without the potential risks. > Other names: Equilin `http://www.lovepotionperfume.com/reading_room/articles/PheroWiki` ---
**Author:** ![sharkndragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sharkndragon/32/426_2.png) [@sharkndragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sharkndragon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/74 "2013-10-02T05:15:07Z")
> [@Wyatt](#): > > It takes a lot of over the top game to pull off. Doesn’t that defeat the intent of adding the pheromones? It almost sounds like that mix is playing _Against_ you if you have to rely on superior game to make it work. ---
**Author:** ![Wyatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wyatt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wyatt)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001/75 "2013-10-02T06:41:53Z")
> [@sharkndragon](#): > > Doesn’t that defeat the intent of adding the pheromones? It almost sounds like that mix is playing _Against_ you if you have to rely on superior game to make it work. What I’m selling at this moment in my life is a hard sell… polyamorous Only mix so far that makes it easy. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-best-mones-to-pick-for-guys-who-want-to-remain-a-challenge/60001.md?page=3)