# The dangers of friendly pheromones in a business mix **URL:** \ **Category:** A314 Insider's Club\ **Created:** [September 2, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365 "2007-09-02T05:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/1 "2007-09-02T05:25:46Z")
I’m posting this in the a314 forum because it is password protected and seems immune from Google searches. Please don’t quote this post outside the protected a314 forum. There are a minority of users who use pheromones in the business world, and hopefully they will figure out that this is the place to look for information of this nature. Recently I have been playing with p94. It is a nice friendly pheromone that some have described as a “cool-guy” phero. That has been my experience in social situations also. Recently I put on my usual base of a314 for some business meetings, and added 20 mcg p94 to my hair. Interactions with subordinates and contractors were good, but a fellow marginally higher in the hierarchy than myself challenged me in one of the meetings and took control of the meeting and some decisions that were mine to make. I didn’t battle it out with him then in front of my team, preferring to wait. Later we met to talk things over prior to our meeting with our boss. I wore 4 drops a314 and no p94 to this meeting. His demeanor was much different, quite subdued and conciliatory. He asked me what I wanted to make things right. We talked for a while and came to a resolution, and then we talked about what had motivated his behavior. From his perspective it had looked like we were “spinning our wheels” and he felt an impulsive urge to get things back on track. I brought up the alpha male baboon idea and inquired if he felt his status was being challenged. He answered, honestly I think, that status was not so much his concern as the viability of the project. This leads me to believe that using some of the “friendly” pheromones with social effects may run the risk of having persons marginally above in a hierarchy worry about competence and task orientation. People lower in the hierarchy seem to respond positively, and people distinctly above also seem to respond positively. I think this is because people lower don’t carry the responsibility for task completion, nor for steering the tone of an interaction. People distinctly above expect the details will be worked and expect a somewhat social interaction in which they are filled in on status, etc. However peers and those slightly above share responsibility, want the details, and may feel threatened if a perceived social tone makes them think important work will not be accomplished. If my speculations here are correct [social pheromones](https://a314.com/product-category/social-pheromones/) should be used carefully around peers with tendencies to worry in this manner. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 6:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/2 "2007-09-02T06:05:17Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > …If my speculations here are correct social pheromones should be used carefully around peers with tendencies to worry in this manner. All right GWTW! I think this is a first-class piece of deduction and social dynamics analysis. Well done and thank you! ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/3 "2007-09-02T07:40:05Z")
This is spot on. A314 and its variants when used with any lightening agents seems to lose its effects on those i most want it to effect. Very good investigative work, Wind. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 8:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/4 "2007-09-02T08:57:32Z")
Insightful post. Just one question - are you sure P **94** is the cool guy phero? I don’t remember much discussion of 94 on the forum? Did you by any chance mean [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/)? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 12:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/5 "2007-09-02T12:00:46Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > Insightful post. Just one question - are you sure P **94** is the cool guy phero? I don’t remember much discussion of 94 on the forum? Did you by any chance mean P74? > > Thanks. I made a mistake with the attribution of a nickname to p94, which I tried to edit shortly after I posted but it went into moderation and will probably show up sometime later. p74 has indeed been called the “cool guy” phero. However, it was p94 that I was wearing when the event above occurred. That part I got right. ---
**Author:** ![idle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/idle/32/344_2.png) [@idle](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/idle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/6 "2007-09-02T14:36:53Z")
GWTW you are my type of guy… 80% of my phero usage is at business meetings and work too.. I used A314 and [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) (2 sparys at 25mgc per spray). This mix is good for hanging out with friends.. but in the meeting i was kinda ignored.. i had no influence on the decisions… it was really weird. So can you share more of your bussiness mixes that worked well. A314 + additional Androsterone ? I got some good impressions with 4 drops of a314 and a drop of TAA oil under my nose for some self influence. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/7 "2007-09-02T16:35:11Z")
> [@idle](#): > > So can you share more of your bussiness mixes that worked well. > A314 + additional Androsterone ? I don’t discount the use of friendly [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) in business. It’s just playing with fire. I use the nols quite a bit, and TAA. Even p74, p94, etc have their place when trying to create a comfortable environment with subordinates. I’ve come to the conclusion that the apporpriate use of pheormones in a business environment is highly context sensitive. For decision-making meetings with peers, like the ones it seems several of us have bungled with “friendly” pheromones, I find a shot or two of additional none makes me a force to be reconned with. Optimal none levels are dependent on personal chemistry, but I think upping the none ratio is worth experimenting with in that environment. On the other hand, I am hesitant to up the ratio of Androsterone in the decision-making-meetings-with-peers environment. I really enjoy concentrated Androsterone mixes but they create a gentle, benevolent and gracious vibration on me that is likely to reduce my impact in that particular environment. Again, this is personal and it will be interesting to hear what others have experienced. A younger male than myself might benefit from an increased Androsterone ratio due to the different ratio of naturally produced pheromones on his skin. Perhaps we need a series of posts on different business environments. It is niave to think that one mix is optimal for all situations. Here are some more different situations, all of which call for different nuances of mixing. Interviewing a job candidate Being interviewed for a job Facilitating a meeting Running a meeting in which information, a vision or goal, etc is being communicated to subordinates Presenting information or proposals to those above in the heirarchy Supervising work by subordinates Chewing someone out Praising someone Of course, it is impossible to switch pheromone signatures immediately when many of these situations come up. Our signatures change a little bit due to our changing natural pheromone production. If we know that we are going into a situation we can prep appropriately. And, if a situation comes up for which we know we currently have an innapropriate signature, we can try to avoid or postpone the situation. If we can’t postpone it, we can at least prepare for the potential negative consequences our inappropriate signatures may create. A314 seems pretty safe in all situations and I use that as my baseline business mix. My only objection is the smell. I have a couple bottles of the unscented mutant batch left and that is the one I prefer. The regular bottle I bought has a scent that doesn’t go well with some of the business environments I encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 10:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/8 "2007-09-04T10:15:21Z")
thanks, gwtw, for your advice.. I kind of subconsciously thought the same thing myself, I think… cause I don’t seem to have added -nols to a meeting, if I recall correctly.. thanks again. I’ll be careful not to do so. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/9 "2007-09-05T01:04:45Z")
another instant classic GWTW post… alphanol can definitely convery weakness. P94 I have no experience of. [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) I haven’t observed to create a weak impression (but perhaps still the wrong note for a budget meeting). I think priming and auto-effects are relevant here. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/10 "2007-09-15T14:00:56Z")
Yea I agree great thread, thanks GWTW! From my experience, pretty much every ‘friendly’ pheromone has that problem - when ‘friendly’ pheromones dominate a mix, the perception of competence is reduced. I have had this problem to one extent or another with Realm (contains minute amounts of Estratetraenol), P74 (I added 50 mcg to the already present 50 mcg within an hour-and-a-half), Alpha-Androstenol, TAA, TAK and WAGG. Even when wearing a solid 2 drops or more of A314, if one adds a fast diffusing ‘friendly’ product like Realm, they will get this perceived reduction of competence (in Realm’s case the effect mostly goes though after 20 mins or so in my experience). Scent of Eros for me (when used without A314 or Androstenone) is the quintessential product for a perception in the office of someone that mucks around, a lightweight. Here is some posts of the Scent of Eros ‘lightweight effect’ that can happen for some people. To be fair some of the posts below highlight that one can make use of being ‘nice’ as well and I have included JVK’s response as well to be fair… **DONOTDELETE** (July 27, 2002): " [http://pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif](http://pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif) **SOE cut my balls off** Let me just say that SOE is a great product, i have much respect for JKohl, its creator, and think he personally produced a great smelling product…i love the smell of it myself, and if he ever made a version with none in it, i would buy it in a heartbeat…however, that being said, soe works well for alot of folks, but it didnt help me the other day at all…let me explain… I have been wearing PI or Rm for bout the past 6 mths, since that time, i have been promoted in my department, have gained recognition in my job and everyone really seems to like me and "respect " me..see me as a leader…powerful, like i have prescense..when i say something, it gets respected…\*\*now, i decided to try an experimetn the other day and just wear a SOE gel pack to the office instead…well, it was funny..while i felt sort weird wearing it, i felt naked without the none..and i notice dthe other guys int he office looking at me and sorta thinking what the hell …then,i noticed a dominance attempt where all the guys started acting like the boss, and not really noticing me like before, even the women didnt kowtow to me as normal…its like i started to lose my authority and power, even the big boss walked out of hsi office and didnt speak to me…well, it got the heepy jeebies so i ran home and showered off at lunch and applied th PI ( really od'd, like 4 drops)…it was like night adn day..the boss comes out of his office and shakes my hand and asked me how i was doing that day…then, eveyrone began to act with deference to me again, the women started smiling and looking at me..i felt back to my normal confidnt powerful self…\*\*wierd, strange? maybe, but oh soooo true…anyone have any comments on this scenario?" **DONOTDELETE** (July 28, 2002): “you have a point, it could very well have been a confidence thing..or maybe people are used to "smellin" me a certain way…\*\*i have had great success with SOE out in clubs and such, but not at the workplace..i definittely think SOE is a great product, and i have seen it work big time, the only thing about it is that it tends to make me less dominant or percieved as less dominant, which only in the wrkplace is that a big deal…\*\*i find out though soe works great if i had a little none to it…i personally love the SOE gels and love wearing them!! i will try to do another experiment and maybe be a little more objective” bjf (February 24, 2003): " ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/c/c04d5146d0302ab0861b20629830752e3de1a6eb.gif) **Scent of Eros – Too Nice?** **I wonder if some women are turned off with a guy with too much Androstenol…i.e. too nice, too wimpy, can walk all over him.** maybe i am wrong about it." SonnyBlack (February 24, 2003): “**ive always wondered about this as well…I think girls see you as such (wimpy, weak, not able to protect them) when you have too much Androstenol on. Ive worn Scent of Eros a couple of times and and I kinda noticed such reactions while doing so…or maybe it was just that im used to having naturally high levels of none and when I added Androstenol it sorta freaked me out**…” bjf (February 24, 2003): " **the only time i have ever worn more Androstenol then none i thought a bunch of guys behind me were considering robbing me and a girl basically felt "wht can u do for me, you couldn't take care of me" type-deal. Guys were nice, except for the guys who wanted to rob me** /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif . I am interested to see how women reacted to other guys with much higher Androstenol to none/Androsterone ratio" Proteus (February 24, 2003): " **I tend to agree that with Scent of Eros you tend to be perceived as too nice - so especially when I hit the clubs if I use Scent of Eros I definitely use it with some -none, specifically JB#1**. But sometimes being perceived as " too nice " works great as you can move in on the ladies in kind of a stealth mode. Once I have her talking, which Scent of Eros is very good at doing, then I can use my skills to seduce her. If one approaches -Androstenol products from this perspective, you can in many ways be more successful with women than if you use -none products because they are already “comfortable” with you and if your seduction skills are good, then the rest is easy. I think of it this way - -none, when it works well, will have her ready to jump you without too much work, whereas -Androstenol may not induce this reaction, but from a percentage scale you can get to “talk” with a lot more women, and take it from there. So for the less skilled seductionists go with -none, but if you have skills, then I think -Androstenol products are much better for you. Just my two cents." franki (February 24, 2003): "… **The only problem with Androstenol alone, IMO, is that when you are already a nice guy yourself, and you are only wearing Androstenol, you are missing something.** Personally I ALWAYS feel I am missing something when I don't put on the tiniest bit of none. I really don't believe in the theory that too much Androstenol (on its own) makes one too nice…" jvkohl (February 25, 2003): “Some people may be forgetting that -Androstenol has been shown to effect hormone levels (luteinizing hormone:LH, and follicle stimulating hormone) in women. This effect is always beneficial in other mammals; it is the typical response to pheromones from the opposite sex. An increase in LH will be followed by an increase in testosterone, which is very effective with regard to increasing libido, in both men and women. Scent of Eros may be too nice, but it also provides a nice push in the right direction: towards increased interest in sex.” Shenandoah (April 27, 2006): “… **One does not want to over do the Scent of Eros. It could make you seem too friendly – that is a “push over,” a light weight, or a people pleaser** …” Futurist (January 7, 2006): “…Scent of Eros – This has a [pheromone formula](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) that gives off social effects, such as chattyness. **Wear too much of it and you will seem overly wimpy.** A good product, but doesn’t serve as a sexual attractant as it claims to. However, if you are a clint east wood type guy, a biker type, a body builder, etc, then this will likely take away some of the intimidation you produce in women and make you more attractive…” ---
**Author:** ![capone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/capone/32/587_2.png) [@capone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/capone)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/11 "2007-09-16T04:51:12Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > jvkohl (February 25, 2003): > “Some people may be forgetting that -Androstenol has been shown to effect hormone levels (luteinizing hormone:LH, and follicle stimulating hormone) in women. This effect is always beneficial in other mammals; it is the typical response to pheromones from the opposite sex. An increase in LH will be followed by an increase in testosterone, which is very effective with regard to increasing libido, in both men and women. Scent of Eros may be too nice, but it also provides a nice push in the right direction: towards increased interest in sex.” I didn’t know the reaction -ols –\> +LH –\> +Testosterone, did you? Very interesting, does say where to look or does he attach a serious study that support that? Anyway, a testosterone increase in males is not good in my opinion in a bussiness enviroment, it would make men to be more agressive with you and not easily accept your ideas. It would be better something to make them wimpier or something 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Patratt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/patratt/32/971_2.png) [@Patratt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Patratt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-dangers-of-friendly-pheromones-in-a-business-mix/5365/12 "2008-01-20T05:29:04Z")
AHA! Man, I have been experiencing some behavior from an immediate supervisor that had me confused recently. I was just about to post a question to you guys to see if I had OD ed on my -rone. This thread makes it completely clear. Thanks GTWT, Visionary and all you other contributors for making it obvious. Jeez! This guy that is right above me has been challenging me in decisions in which normally he agree to my ideas and values my opinions. It has definitely been a “perceived reduction of competence”. Why? I’ll tell you why. Because I have recently been jacking around with testing [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/), CTTM, & TAL on top of my A314 mutant. Damnit! I should have recognized this. I have been upping my drops of A314 to counteract what I thought was just not enough. When in fact my 2-3 drops have been exactly enough to get me a raise and more respect from higher management. So I can definitely agree with your testing regarding socials at work. I am going back to straight A314 in my all male work environment. Thanks guys! I love this forum! Newbs, do a quick search before you ask a question! 😉 ~Patratt~