# The in-toeing epidemic (pigeon-toed gait) - estrogen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [October 1, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622 "2011-10-01T11:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/1 "2011-10-01T11:41:56Z")
[Bruce Charlton’s Miscellany: The in-toeing epidemic (pigeon-toed gait) - estrogen?](http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2011/10/in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait.html) > [@](#): > > SATURDAY, 1 OCTOBER 2011 > The in-toeing epidemic (pigeon-toed gait) - estrogen? > \* > > The mystery of the in-toeing (pigeon-toed) epidemic among young women continues: > > [Bruce Charlton’s Miscellany: Pigeon-toed gait endemic among intelligent young women: medical note](http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2010/09/pigeon-toed-gait-endemic-among.html) > > (I am convinced that this gait is not an affectation - I am sure it is involuntary in most instances.) > > The best suggested explanation came from Paul Jaminet - vitamin D deficiency; with its bone-softening effects. > > This suggests that in-toeing may be a result of softening of the feet, in some way, shape or form; if not bones them perhaps joints?.. > > Which then leads on to the idea that it might be due to some increase in estrogen - whether natural, in contraceptives, or as an environmental pollutant (which may explain why surprising numbers of men walk this way too). > > The only ‘evidence’ I can present for this is that estrogen softens and loosens joints (i.e. softening the ligaments that join bones to bones - this is well known in pregnancy) - perhaps making the ankles or internal joints of the foot more ‘floppy’, and hyper-flexible feet may cause the observed change in gait? > > Well, I’m not very convinced by this - but the phenomenon is real and new, and there must be some explanation! ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/2 "2011-10-01T14:36:00Z")
Interesting, but he doesn’t present much evidence that this is something new. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/3 "2011-10-02T00:26:59Z")
> [@chads](#): > > Interesting, but he doesn’t present much evidence that this is something new. Aha - possibly the shortest possible statement reflecting all that is wrong with our conceptualisation of what is science. I suppose you would prefer that he had done a large-scale study of gait thirty years ago, and gait today? Personally, I am happy enough with his personal observation that this certainly is something new. Either one considers an author worthy of trust (that he tends to be truthful, competent and insightful) or not. I am happy to believe that Bruce is on to something and think his puzzle worthy of further investigation. I certainly wouldn’t want to try to persuade you of the same. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/4 "2011-10-02T01:18:23Z")
I would be the first to agree with you that “studies” are not the be-all and end-all of ascertaining the workings of the world (to the horror of some), but I haven’t seen any changes in the gait of women. Maybe it is an epidemic in the UK. Furthermore, to speculate that it is biological is interesting, but not the last word on the subject, IMO. Thanks for posting, I do enjoy reading and thinking about these things. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/5 "2011-10-26T23:25:05Z")
I have been watching for this and have only noticed 1 woman in the past few weeks toeing in, and she was wearing thongs as in one of the comments to the article. "I blame those thongs (shoes). No one can walk normally in them. Everyone shuffles like a Japanese Geisha! " I have noticed a large number toeing out, however, and a couple were toeing out to almost 30 degrees. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/6 "2011-10-27T01:10:45Z")
> [@chads](#): > > I have been watching for this and have only noticed 1 woman in the past few weeks toeing in, and she was wearing thongs as in one of the comments to the article. > "I blame those thongs (shoes). No one can walk normally in them. Everyone shuffles like a Japanese Geisha! " > > I have noticed a large number toeing out, however, and a couple were toeing out to almost 30 degrees. what is your sample? bruce teaches at a university (an academically quite strong university) so has a certain kind of sample available to him. just watching girls in the street may be looking at a rather different sample. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/7 "2011-10-27T15:41:51Z")
That could very well be. I’m mostly just looking at women in stores (I’ve been busted a couple of times looking at their feet lol) although one of the extreme toe out women was walking down the street as I drove by. There might even be a racial component involved. I would estimate the ages from 14-60 and I’ve probably consciously looked at the feet of over 100 women over the past few weeks. Have you you been looking for this? I’m just curious as to whether you have seen any of this. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-in-toeing-epidemic-pigeon-toed-gait-estrogen/52622/8 "2011-10-30T02:45:46Z")
> [@chads](#): > > That could very well be. I’m mostly just looking at women in stores (I’ve been busted a couple of times looking at their feet lol) although one of the extreme toe out women was walking down the street as I drove by. There might even be a racial component involved. I would estimate the ages from 14-60 and I’ve probably consciously looked at the feet of over 100 women over the past few weeks. > > Have you you been looking for this? I’m just curious as to whether you have seen any of this. I am not out and about often enough to be in a position to notice…