# The other 90% - Where do I start? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [September 26, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815 "2009-09-26T16:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/1 "2009-09-26T16:49:56Z")
Hey, As you probably all know, one of the most quoted lines given to new people coming in here is: “[Pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) only give you 10% - The other 90% is you!” But, it could be very hard and very very troublesome for some people to see that - as they are probably here to increase themselves socially, yet are then told that they have to be mostly social before they can benefit from pheromone help. So, obviously a catch-22 situation. A resource I have found incredibly helpful was the [LadderWiki](http://www.ladderwiki.com/). It is basically a wiki where pick up techniques are explained that stem from the Ladder Theory. [The Ladder Theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/) being a simplified model comparing how men are attracted to women and what women are generally attracted to in men and how they are attracted to men. There are people that agree, and some that disagree. It’s up to you to decide. Be warned that LadderWiki could be considered as womanising and objectifying. But take from it what you will. This is the place that taught me how/what flirting was. I was a nerdy kid and had no idea how to do any of that. It also gives you a rough idea of what attitude you need going into conversations. Women aren’t going to throw yourself at you just because you’re wearing pheromones - you need to put in some work! It also explains some terms used by some people on this forum. Such as friend-zone, shit-test, negs etc. Anyway, this is a wonderful resource that could be used for good or evil. It’s in your hands what you do with it 😉 [LadderWiki](http://www.ladderwiki.com/) Another interesting place is the accompanying forums that go along with LadderWiki which are called IWForums. It is a supportive place, but it is mainly geared towards the “catch and release” mentality - rather than anything long-term. But it’s a good place for learning about attraction (that could be used to trigger something long-term). No need to link to them from here - you can find the link on the wiki. Anyway, the resources are there. LadderWiki has been down for the last few months and only just resurfaced very recently! Best of luck with using it (if you so choose) to compliment your pheromone adventures! ---
**Author:** ![Snoopyace](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/snoopyace/32/1727_2.png) [@Snoopyace](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Snoopyace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/2 "2009-09-27T01:46:37Z")
When I first found this site and started using pheromones I’d been divorced for close to ten years. I had NO self esteem and had pretty much given up on ever getting back to being as self confident and happy as I was prior to my marriage and subsequent divorce. I’d bought a few products and I started trying different things and finding what worked to help me get my foot in the door with people. At first the hits were pretty subtle. I’d be wearing IG and IS and (in addition to the self effects of feeling strong and masculine) someone would talk to me without me having to approach them. Before that, I’d have just been ignored. The subtle hits got me paying attention to the people around me. I also started focusing on being positive about myself. At this point I’d peg the pheros to me ratio at about 50%/50%. They were helping me to open my eyes to the fact that I was a much better person than I gave myself credit for being. The hits I was seeing were largely the pheros and not me at this point but that shifted with time and focus on my part to improve myself and my self image. It was important for me to recognize that the people were paying attention to ME not to the pheros. I was the one wearing them and I could use them as a tool to help me really connect with people. After a while I started getting more confidence as I started recognizing that people were giving me positive attention. I started to value myself more. I went and got the first decent haircut I’d had in years. I invested in clothes that made me feel good. I started holding my head up and ‘acting congruent with my new phero signatures’. Most importantly I started BEING MYSELF around people. I totally agree, by the way, that flirting is a fantastic way to not only feel better about yourself but also help the self esteem of someone else. The pheromones started carrying less of the load and I started becoming interesting to people because I was being true to who I am. I’m a nice guy with a sarcastic sense of humor (but not mean) and people seemed to like me for that. Now I use the pheromone testing as a game to see how people react. Will this putative make that person happy or will it give them pause? Is this something I can use to benefit the people around me by making them happy? How can I have fun improving lives. I tried reading a lot of the PUA stuff, but it didn’t resonate with me. I feel that the most important thing is to be who you are. People either like me or they don’t. I think I’ve finally hit that ratio of 10% pheros to 90% me. It didn’t happen overnight and most people don’t have as far to go as I did but it is a process that we all to through to improve ourselves. Thanks to Androtics and the wonderful people on this forum for all the advice and support! I am an entirely new and happy person now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/3 "2009-09-27T02:28:08Z")
Wow, Snoopyace 🙂 That was great! There is that initial spark that some people need before they can improve themselves. And phero’s can give that. MetalTree’s journal is great in that respect! His changes are really quite something and I highly recommend reading his journal. [To be less harmless and more polarizing](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931) As for the PUA stuff. I never knew what I was doing wrong. What it was that always showed me as the “nice guy” and never anything more. I had to be told it was ok and expected to give a light touch on a shoulder, or the small of a back, or make a bit of playful fun of something. I always thought it was about treating women like queens, and bowing down before them and sucking up - which was so so wrong. Learning about kino changed my life. I use it not only with women I am interested in - but if I am talking to an older woman, or someone I want to come off as friendly to - I end up placing my hand on their upper arm, or shoulder, with a bit of light hand-touching. Being perceived as friendly by men - basically you have to flirt with them too - minus the kino, and you can probably be more liberal with the use of negative playful comments. So, everything is inter-connected. I had to be told it was OK to do all of this. I thought it was taboo. But, quite literally, some of the stuff written on that site has changed my life. I’m not into ONS and don’t think I ever will be - it’s not my thing. And that’s what I mean about using it for whatever you want. Learning to flirt is a great social skill, and certain aspects of it can be applied almost anywhere when interacting with people. Androtics’ products are a wonderful compliment to the things I have learned and I am very very excited about what I can do with pheromones! ---
**Author:** ![Snoopyace](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/snoopyace/32/1727_2.png) [@Snoopyace](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Snoopyace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/4 "2009-09-27T02:38:29Z")
> [@LeafStamp](#): > > Wow, Snoopyace 🙂 That was great! > > There is that initial spark that some people need before they can improve themselves. And phero’s can give that. MetalTree’s journal is great in that respect! His changes are really quite something and I highly recommend reading his journal. [To be less harmless and more polarizing](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931) > > As for the PUA stuff. I never knew what I was doing wrong. What it was that always showed me as the “nice guy” and never anything more. I had to be told it was ok and expected to give a light touch on a shoulder, or the small of a back, or make a bit of playful fun of something. I always thought it was about treating women like queens, and bowing down before them and sucking up - which was so so wrong. > > Learning about kino changed my life. I use it not only with women I am interested in - but if I am talking to an older woman, or someone I want to come off as friendly to - I end up placing my hand on their upper arm, or shoulder, with a bit of light hand-touching. > > Being perceived as friendly by men - basically you have to flirt with them too - minus the kino, and you can probably be more liberal with the use of negative playful comments. So, everything is inter-connected. > > I had to be told it was OK to do all of this. I thought it was taboo. But, quite literally, some of the stuff written on that site has changed my life. > > I’m not into ONS and don’t think I ever will be - it’s not my thing. And that’s what I mean about using it for whatever you want. Learning to flirt is a great social skill, and certain aspects of it can be applied almost anywhere when interacting with people. > > Androtics’ products are a wonderful compliment to the things I have learned and I am very very excited about what I can do with pheromones! I can TOTALLY relate to what you’ve written. Great post! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![K-Train](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/k-train/32/2253_2.png) [@K-Train](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/K-Train)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/5 "2009-09-27T02:55:36Z")
I have would like to thank you again LeafStamp for the link, I’ve read about Kino and am really excited to test some of the new techniques(a few I’ve actually tried and they work wonders). Also just wanted to say if you haven’t seen it yet I made my report on the other thread so check it out if you haven’t. Either way, great find mate, I really think this should also be stickied for the new customers. ---
**Author:** ![Alfa1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Alfa1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alfa1)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/6 "2009-09-27T04:03:13Z")
Great Post Leaf! And Snoopyace! Cricky, well done! “respect” ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/7 "2009-09-27T06:12:18Z")
> [@Alfa1](#): > > Great Post Leaf! > > And Snoopyace! Cricky, well done! “respect” _facepalm_ It’s “Crikey”… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alfa1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Alfa1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alfa1)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/8 "2009-09-27T06:27:52Z")
> [@LeafStamp](#): > > _facepalm_ > > It’s “Crikey”… 😛 Sorry dude, I’m a builder / inventor / innovator / I make things out of thin air / my mates call me **MacGyver**. If I make a word up, hey, thats me hahaha! I could edit that post, but I’ not going to… You know what I mean 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/9 "2009-09-28T03:12:56Z")
> [@Alfa1](#): > > Sorry dude, I’m a builder / inventor / innovator / I make things out of thin air / my mates call me **MacGyver**. If I make a word up, hey, thats me hahaha! I could edit that post, but I’ not going to… You know what I mean 😛 Macgyver would have been able to spell “Crikey” correctly using only a toothpick, a quarter bag of fertilizer, and an empty aluminium can - all while being locked in the boot of a car driving back slowly heading towards a cliff. ---
**Author:** ![Alfa1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Alfa1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alfa1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/10 "2009-09-28T03:26:01Z")
Hmmm aluminum and fertilizer you say (of the oxidizing sort I’m going to assume). greats up the can with the Swiss army knife and adds the fertilizer, cuts a strip of carpet from the floor rolls the mix in it and raps it around the lock on the boot, shorts out the wires that run the light inside the boot to ignite the mix and burns out the lock and then jumps out just before the car goes over the cliff and says “cricky that was close”. Gives the girl a smile who has just creamed herself in amazement and awe and takes her home to bed.. that’s how it works… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/11 "2009-09-28T03:29:32Z")
> [@Alfa1](#): > > Hmmm aluminum and fertilizer you say (of the oxidizing sort I’m going to assume). greats up the can with the Swiss army knife and adds the fertilizer, cuts a strip of carpet from the floor rolls the mix in it and raps it around the lock on the boot, shorts out the wires that run the light inside the boot to ignite the mix and burns out the lock and then jumps out just before the car goes over the cliff and says “ **cricky** that was close”. Gives the girl a smile who has just creamed herself in amazement and awe and takes her home to bed.. that’s how it works… 😛 _hits head repeatedly against wall_ ---
**Author:** ![Alfa1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Alfa1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alfa1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/12 "2009-09-28T03:33:34Z")
> [@LeafStamp](#): > > _hits head repeatedly against wall_ Mate, I did that deliberately…. 🙂 haha ---
**Author:** ![Vaccine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vaccine/32/2381_2.png) [@Vaccine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vaccine)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/13 "2009-09-28T07:10:32Z")
Leafstamp, That’s a good question to ask. There’s no one answer, but there is a direction. Focusing on you is where it begins. Whatever you do, it should be for you. You want to become the best you that you can be. People generally refer to this as “having your shit together”. I am not into the PUA, that’s not my thing. The ladder theory is one way, my own ‘theory’ is knowing your audience. We all might be attracted to the Victoria’s Secret models, but it is likely that few of us will meet the criteria that girls in that status are seeking. So, if that is your goal, what can you change about you that will put you in or close to the needed criteria? You can also change what you are seeking, as well. You can control a lot of your physical appearance and most anyone can do this. You can control your level of fitness, which is a basic, but very good place to start. Being in top physical shape is the next best thing to being wealthy, as both can compensate for some shortcomings. 😉 Appropriate dress and grooming are important as well, but it has to be you. I mean that in this and all advice, just don’t become something you aren’t, unless that something is what you want to be and become for you, not for someone else. If you are changing your style of dress and grooming, you need to do it as something you want to do and not dress like you are putting on a costume. Make it yours. There is so much self-improvement you can do, explore it. Learn something new, a hobby, career improvement, personal discovery or anything else that leads to personal growth. There are unending amount of books, DVDs and programs on this. It’s hard to give a single post that is relevant to everyone, but the best way to do that is to model someone that you aspire to being more like. This is all giving you a direction to improve the baseline you. That’s a good and long lasting foundation to have. This is my own thought and I may be wrong, but I think that pheromones work well for some, better for others. My thought is that were I Napoleon Dynamite using pheromones, I’d see certain results. Were I James Bond, I’d see others. My belief is that JB would see disproportionately better results than ND. I think that there is a synergistic effect when people with their shit together use pheromones, like being not just rich, but rich _and_ good looking. This is not to say that you need to be an international spy to see the best results but if you are at least presenting a neutral attribute, that is better than a negative. Make a list of 10 attributes you like in a girl. I’ll assume that your list is full of positive attributes, so imagine that a girl has a similar list. How do you stack up? What can you improve? So my thought is that the higher you rank on this fictitious list, the better pheromones will work in that case. Without getting too deep into it, attraction is basic and pheromones are basic, so they work hand in hand. ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/14 "2009-09-28T08:25:53Z")
Yeah, what he said 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alfa1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Alfa1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Alfa1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/15 "2009-09-28T11:20:54Z")
Vaccine - Fantastic post I would like to add one thing. Robert Kiyoski says “surround yourself with great people, then you don’t have to know everything” Or something to that affect, I have read all his books and remember that from one of them. We can’t all be lawyers, doctors, engineers or builders. The people that sweep the streets and pump gas are needed just as much. One can not survive without the other. If being yourself means you are not a lawyer and someone looks down on you, then hey, that’s there lose. The trick is, know a little about law, accounting, building, dancing and singing… the list goes on. At the end of the day, when you meet one of those people you can say to yourself “I’m just as good as you and you may need me, just like I could need you someday” Henry ford and Thomas Edison are both people I admire ---
**Author:** ![Vaccine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vaccine/32/2381_2.png) [@Vaccine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vaccine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/16 "2009-09-29T18:14:56Z")
Thanks to you both. I’m glad that made sense. Robert Kiyosaki is always a thought provoking read for me. No one thing is going to make you irresistible to everyone. You might as well work at excelling in your goals. Beyond attracting those you desire, I’d bet that attitude might carry over into other area of your life, improving that as well. ---
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/17 "2009-09-29T21:28:34Z")
> [@Vaccine](#): > > Thanks to you both. I’m glad that made sense. Robert Kiyosaki is always a thought provoking read for me. > > **No one thing is going to make you irresistible to everyone.** You might as well work at excelling in your goals. Beyond attracting those you desire, I’d bet that attitude might carry over into other area of your life, improving that as well. I’d argue nobody can ever effectively become irresistible to everyone - nevermind that, nobody can ever effectively become attractive to everyone. The best you can get is to be mediocre (he is ok) to almost everyone… but who really wants to be mediocre at best anyways. Excell and some people will dislike you - accept that for the cost of being disliked is the reward of being adored. ---
**Author:** ![Vaccine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vaccine/32/2381_2.png) [@Vaccine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vaccine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/18 "2009-09-29T23:35:08Z")
That’s exactly right. I should have made it clearer, but you get what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![K-Train](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/k-train/32/2253_2.png) [@K-Train](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/K-Train)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/19 "2009-09-30T00:07:19Z")
This should be the thread of year. A lot of truth being told in this thread. Great job guys. ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-other-90-where-do-i-start/32815/20 "2009-09-30T10:27:55Z")
> [@Wrlprchnx](#): > > Excell and some people will dislike you - accept that for the cost of being disliked is the reward of being adored. Love me or hate me - you’re still thinking about me 🙂 People who hate you usually think more about you than the ones who like you. Who wouldn’t mind this form of flattery?