# To be less harmless and more polarizing **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931 "2009-06-16T15:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/121 "2009-07-23T17:14:48Z")
> [@Vangelis](#): > > Are you concerned about difusion or smell? > > Well, I am just making-up hypothesis as I don’t smell -none either but what it seems to me is that once -none is activated in your own skin then by the fact that it is interacting with your own body chemistry the odor should change. > > Based on personal experience, my personal odor, when using IJ for instance, does change a couple of hours later. It gets stronger but not sure I can say disgusting. Whatever the end result, what it seems to me that you want is to have a good carrier scent to first of all, cover the -none smell (if any) and second help you keep diffusing it for as long as it lasts active in you. > > Therefore, I thought the easiest and economical (economic as in effort as well as currency) solution to be is to carry with a ToGo of your perfume or Eau de Toillete. In any case, I keep reading posts of ladies smelling your chest even after some hours of -none application. Indeed, you posted about a lady falling asleep on your chest where you’d applied -none (IJ or TUTH I don’t remember) perviously. Furthermore, I rearely use any cover scent beyond the neroli or game and I have been playing a lot with IJ with no negative effects whatsoever, all the opposite. I guess NPA most be really a nasty bomb for you to be really worried, otherwise you shouldn’t waste time, money and energy on that detail. Anyhow, I guess my two cents are not that good currency on this particular issue. NPA is a concentrated version of The Edge and both of those products are known to stink very badly to people who can smell -None. With Instant Jerk and TUTH, Androtics put a lot of thought into having the right blend of oils to mask the [pheromone scent](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/). That’s why my scent didn’t put off women, even when their heads wear near my chest with the -None there. But with NPA, I don’t get the benefit of Androtics’ expertise in scents. Therefore I have to trust that my cologne manufacture does a good job masking the scent. I trust Androtics more than I trust the cologne manufacturer. I’m mostly concerned with the smell. If the diffusion rate his high, more molecules/second will leave the skin and reach other people’s noses. If the number of molecules is below a certain threshold then people won’t be able to smell the molecules. But if the number of molecules is above a certain threshold then people will be able to smell the molecules. As you suggested, we have our own personal odor which will help mask the scent of the -None and raise the threshold where people will be able to smell it. As you also suggested, a little spray of cologne later in the night might be enough to mask the NPA ordor as well. Perhaps my cologne will be strong enough and I’m doing all this worrying and contemplating for nothing. I’m thinking about making a mix of 1:3 cologne to TUTH. My cologne is pretty strong when first applied and that might be just enough cologne to beef up the original cologne application later in the night. Plus it will recharge my -None signature because TUTH is a fast diffuser. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/122 "2009-07-23T18:01:09Z")
I just made a mix of 1:4 cologne/TUTH. Even though there are 4 parts Tuth to every part cologne, the smell of the cologne is overwhelming the [Neroli](https://a314.com/product-category/scented/androtics-neroli/) scent in TUTH. This will be the refresher spray I will use later in the evening when I go out. I’ll cover my NPA application with this once every few hours and I’ll get a really big -None fix to. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/123 "2009-07-24T16:58:47Z")
Happy Hour, Lack of Balls, Proposition, and Kissing Last night I went to a happy hour and several bars. I wanted to do a crash & burn session but I was paralyzed by fear so I didn’t act. Overall, I am very pleased with the effectiveness of a heavy dose of -None with A314. For the foreseeable future I’m only going to use -None (NPA, IJ, TUTH) and A314. I put my [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) and Instant Openess in a box perhaps never to be used again. Women are definitely more talkative with me when I have -None and A314 than without pheromones or other pheromone combinations. My sweet spot is definitely a high dose of -None with A314. I wore the following pheromnes 1 spray of 1:4 NPA/Cologne Mix (Before I left my apartment) 1 Drop of A314 (Before I left my apartment) 8 Sprays of 80% Strength TUTH (Various times throughout the night) My 80% strength TUTH is a mix that is 80% TUTH and 20% Cologne. It is the same cologne that mixed with the NPA. The night started off at a happy hour where I met my friend, his wife, and a group of people in her social circle. I was very pleased with the way the happy hour went. The happy hour was a resounding success for the pheromones. There was one girl there that my friend’s wife tried to set me up with in the past. She just was not attracted to me and I have never been able to have a conversation with her in the past that lasted more than 2 or 3 minutes. We have tried on a few occasions to chit chat but we could never get the conversation off the ground. Tonight was different. I was just standing there in our circle of people and she made eye contact with me a few times. Then she walks up to me and starts a conversation by asking how I’m doing. The conversation immediately picks up steam and she does most of the talking and I play a supporting role of making statements and asking questions. This is the longest conversation I have ever had with her. As a matter of fact, this is the longest conversation I have ever had with anyone in this social group. She talked exclusively with me until it was time for her to leave because of another social engagement. She tells me that she wants to meet up with us later in the evening (which never happens because the whole group went home an hour later.) Also, as I was chatting with the previously mentioned girl in the group, another married girl was standing next to me. For a few seconds at a time, her arm was making contact with my arm. I don’t know if she was doing this on purpose or if she was touching me without even realizing it. I think it might have been a subconscoius thing. There was one other girl in the group that looked at me a few times. Eventually she initiated a conversation with me and the conversation took off. As a matter of fact for long stretches of time she talked 100% of the time. The topics of the coversation were of interest to me and I had opinions on what she was saying. But I could not get a word in edgewise so I just stood there and attentively listened to her monologue. I thought it was a very positive sign because this indicated that she perceived me as higher status in the group. I know from experience that people who view me as low status in a group won’t bother giving me a monologue. So this is proof that the pheromones raised my status. After that, I hit a bunch of bars. The first few were a waste because they had mostly guys and the night didn’t pick up yet. It seems like in that area of New York, everything is buzzing between 11:30 PM and 1:30 AM on a Thursday night but not that good outside those hours. Out at the bars I got several potential IOIs but I’m still having a hard time distuingishing between a real IOI and accidental behaviour and I didn’t have the balls to find out. My original intention was to do a crash and burn session but I just didn’t have the balls to go through with it. I ended up doing two cold approaches in the evening but I didn’t approach any of the girls who gave me IOIs. The most unusual hit of the night was at this one bar where I was standing against the bar with my back to the bar. There were four women in a circle talking to each other. The whole circle slowly moved in my direction and they hovered around me for a good fifteen minutes. Over the fifteen minutes 3 of the girls one after another stood directly in front of me (about six inches away) and played with their hair excessively. Two of them made physical contact with me as I was standing there. One of them had her arm touch my arm for several seconds at a time. But they were all talking to each other and I wasn’t sure if this behaviour was conscious or unconscious. I wasn’t sure if it was intentional or unintentional. Hell, I don’t even know if they consciously realized I was standing there or not because they were so involved in communicating with each other. My first cold approach was late in the evening at a different bar well after midnight. I saw this girl dancing there sort of with a group but she was a few feet away from them. The conversation went something like this: Me: Hi, you look like you are a lot of fun. Her: I am! Will you be my friend? Me: Sure, I’m [My Name] Her: I’m [Her Name] Me: Tell me something about yourself Her: What do you want to know? Me: How about something you find interesting. Her: I’m Russian. Me: Where you born in Russia? Her: No. Me: Do you speak Russian. Her: Yes. (Then she starts talking to me in Russian) (Pause) Her: So, who are you here with? Me: I’m here by myself Her: What brings you to this area. Me. I met some friends for happy hour at [bar name] in the area. It was near fifth avenue, a few blocks from here. Since I was in the area, I decided to come here and hang out for a while. Then she abruptly leaves me without even saying goodbye and returns to her friends. Does anyone see anything wrong with this conversation? I have noticed over the past few years that whenever I say too many sentences in a row, it tends to drive away women. Anyone have any idea why this happens? I’ve bounced this off my friends who know me quite well. They have no idea why this happens to me. They think my communication skills are fine the way they are. At the end of the evening, I go to one last bar. I see two girls standing there not talking so I walk up to them and start talking. I really don’t remember what I said at to these women to start the conversation because I was pretty drunk by the end of the night. One of the girls starts talking to me and the friend drops off to the side. The conversation was pretty effortless. She carried the conversation and I just asked supporting questions and made supporting statements. After about a half an hour I realized that I was stuck in the small talk phase and I decided that I wanted to escalate. I decided that I was going to ask her, “What are you doing later?” and then follow up with, “Do you want to go home with me?” So, I wait for a pause in the conversation when she stops talking. Then I ask her, “So, what are you doing later?” This creates a whole new conversation thread for some reason. I don’t even remember what she said but she babbled on for a little while and then she asked me what I’m doing later. I respond, “I going home to my apartment later.” The the conversation resumes the same pattern as it had been. She talks about herself, I ask supporting questions, and she talks more about herself. Finally I think to myself, no more playing it safe, I’m going to proposition her. I just have to do it. So at the next pause in the conversation I blurt out, “Do you want to go home with me?” She says she can’t and starts to apologizing for some strange reason. I tell her there is no need to apologize. It’s perfectly fine if she doesn’t want to go home with me. Then she tells me that although she won’t go home with me, she would like to make out with me. But at that moment I think I must have misheard her. I have never ever had a girl declare that she wanted to make out with me. It unusually just happens. I just ignored that statement assuming that my brain was playing tricks on me. She goes on to tell me that she had sex with one of her close male friends recently and he was not good in bed so she didn’t want to have sex with him again. But now he doesn’t want to be her friend any more. She is very sad about this. She feels like she lost a very close friend. She also tells me about a guy she met at a bar and hooked up with. He seemed very romantic and genuine but it turned out that he had a girlfriend. So she was kind of pissed off about that. She goes on to tell me that she is not about meaningless sex. She wants sex to be meaningful. I tell her, “Well, I’m the exact opposite. I’m all about meaningless sex.” She responds, “That’s because you are a guy.” Then she asks me which of the girls in the bar I’m going to go home with tonight. I look around and I say, “I don’t know.” She goes through all the girls one by one at the bar in front of us and tells me which ones are ‘sluts’ and which onces are ‘nice girls’ (that was the terminology she used). She pointed out 2 girls that I would have the best chance of going home with. Now, this was was golden information. It’s not too often that I have a female giving me inside information like this. I wanted to approach one of these girls so badly but I was too embarrassed about crashing and burning in front of this girl. So I just told her, “I’m just going to go home and go to bed.” Then she asks me, “How often do you go home with girls you meet at bars.” I didn’t want to tell her how rare it really was so I tried to avoid the question. She pressed and repeatedly asked me so I lied to her and told her, “about once a month.” Fuck, I wish it was once a month. 🙄 She says, “I’m sorry I’m not going to go home with you. But I’ll make out with you.” Again, I thought I misheard her so I think I looked at her with what was probably a confused look. So she says, we have to get going now but she just stands there. I didn’t want to get her number so I was waiting for her to leave. But her friend pipes in and says, “Aren’t you guys going to exchange numbers?” I look at her friend with what was probably a confused look. The friend pulls a book with blank pages out of her bag and pulls out a piece of paper and hands it to me. So, I’m standing there with the piece of paper in my hand but I don’t have a pen. So I tell her friend I don’t have a pen and the friend goes through her purse and digs out a pen. So I write my name and cell number on the paper and give it to her. She tears the paper in half and writes her name, number, and email address on it. Then she stands in front of me and says, “Do you want to make out?” I say, “OK.” Then she proceeds to kiss me and make out with me for a few minutes. Then she looks at me, smiles, and says bye. She then leaves the bar. Then I immediately notice that her friend is still standing next to me sort of daydreaming. I think she was trying to look the other way so she wouldn’t see us kissing. So, I say to her, “Your friend just left.” She says, “Oh.” She chatted with me briefly and was very nice and friendly. Then she left the bar too. I stood there alone for about 5 minutes and decided to go home myself. I walked to the subway station and the train came within 5 minutes so I got home pretty quickly. After I got off the train and went above ground, I got a text message from the girl. We texted back and forth a little bit. Her: Bye [My name] Me: Bye [Her name] Did I hear your name right at the bar? Her: Yup Me: Cool (I went to bed at this point. And she texted again about 10 minutes later.) Her: When are you going home? Me: I am home in bed. I left 5 minutes after you. Her: How did you get home so fast? I’m still in the city. Me: I walked to 53rd street and took the E-Train. It came within 5 minutes. Her: Oh ok goodnight. 🙂 Me: Goodnight. The fact that she asked me when I was going home makes me wonder if she was reconsidering my proposition. I wonder if I could have went home with her if I stayed in Manhattan longer. I guess I’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![evolver](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/evolver/32/1896_2.png) [@evolver](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/evolver)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/124 "2009-07-24T17:17:19Z")
AWESOME!!!#$$(& Put yourself out on the limb a bit (the proposition) and get rewards, a make out! Hot diggity stud. You don’t have to be self critical. You did great! One small step for MetalTree one giant leap for pherokind. lol… you said meaningless. Sex obviously has meaning to you, since you are willing to risk it to go out and get it. That was one text away from ‘where is your apartment.’ 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![moonwhisper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/moonwhisper/32/1735_2.png) [@moonwhisper](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/moonwhisper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/125 "2009-07-24T17:22:33Z")
> [@](#): > > So at the next pause in the conversation I blurt out, “Do you want to go home with me?” She says she can’t and starts to apologizing for some strange reason. I tell her there is no need to apologize. It’s perfectly fine if she doesn’t want to go home with me. Then she tells me that although she won’t go home with me, she would like to make out with me. But at that moment I think I must have misheard her. I have never ever had a girl declare that she wanted to make out with me. It unusually just happens. I just ignored that statement assuming that my brain was playing tricks on me. > [@](#): > > She says, “I’m sorry I’m not going to go home with you. But I’ll make out with you.” Again, I thought I misheard her so I think I looked at her with what was probably a confused look. > [@](#): > > Then she stands in front of me and says, “Do you want to make out?” I say, “OK.” Then she proceeds to kiss me and make out with me for a few minutes. Then she looks at me, smiles, and says bye. She then leaves the bar. Then I immediately notice that her friend is still standing next to me sort of daydreaming. I think she was trying to look the other way so she wouldn’t see us kissing. Okay, surely after all this you will now have better confidence in your hearing, right? Man, if she had come on to you any harder she would have fallen over. Three requests for your kisses?? Whoooeee. Not very many girls want to go home with someone the first time they meet. It happens, but those tend to be girls that make a habit of it. Just so you know what you’re getting if she says ‘yes’ right away. From what you’ve said previously, you made a HUGE step in asking her home. That is not easy to do unless someone has practically sent you an invitation already. So good job on working up the mustard to just do it. You should be proud of that, whether you got the results you wanted or not. I’m assuming this is about improving yourself, and getting laid is secondary. Otherwise you’d could just buy it. Nice report. ---
**Author:** ![Vangelis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/vangelis/32/598_2.png) [@Vangelis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Vangelis)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/126 "2009-07-24T17:30:08Z")
a. Now you know that ladies are willing to make-out with you, let it in, stop the doubts now. If this happend in the bar that is just one step away from the promise land. b. You are still one text away from closing the deal with this one. I think you should. On top of that, with all that NPA, TUTH, IJ you have been spraying yourself with the last couple of months, I think the doctors prescription would be to get some released or wiped away from your skin. The best product to accomplish that is not hydrogen peroxide but natural fresh copulins. You know you need some and the lady seems to be a willing donor.😉 c. Maybe there is nothing wrong in the conversations. Maybe, what is going on is that you are putting out such a strong sensual vibe that they don’t want to talk, they want to f… find more pleasurable ways of interacting with you, if you allow them. Keep going! You are standing on the frame of the door out of the box. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/127 "2009-07-24T17:58:30Z")
> [@evolver](#): > > AWESOME!!!#$$(& > > Put yourself out on the limb a bit (the proposition) and get rewards, a make out! Hot diggity stud. You don’t have to be self critical. You did great! One small step for MetalTree one giant leap for pherokind. lol… you said meaningless. Sex obviously has meaning to you, since you are willing to risk it to go out and get it. > > That was one text away from ‘where is your apartment.’ 🆒 Thanks Evolver. Btw, she in on the same train line as I am and she is only about 5 or 6 stops from me. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/128 "2009-07-24T18:01:48Z")
> [@moonwhisper](#): > > Okay, surely after all this you will now have better confidence in your hearing, right? Man, if she had come on to you any harder she would have fallen over. Three requests for your kisses?? Whoooeee. > > Not very many girls want to go home with someone the first time they meet. It happens, but those tend to be girls that make a habit of it. Just so you know what you’re getting if she says ‘yes’ right away. > > From what you’ve said previously, you made a HUGE step in asking her home. That is not easy to do unless someone has practically sent you an invitation already. So good job on working up the mustard to just do it. You should be proud of that, whether you got the results you wanted or not. I’m assuming this is about improving yourself, and getting laid is secondary. Otherwise you’d could just buy it. > > Nice report. Thanks Moonwhisper. Yeah, I think this night well help build up my confidence a little bit. I could certainly buy it here in New York if I wanted to. But I have this fantasy in my head about becoming a man who is amazing with women. I’m really just trying to make this fantasy come true. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/129 "2009-07-24T18:04:46Z")
> [@Vangelis](#): > > a. Now you know that ladies are willing to make-out with you, let it in, stop the doubts now. If this happend in the bar that is just one step away from the promise land. > > b. You are still one text away from closing the deal with this one. I think you should. On top of that, with all that NPA, TUTH, IJ you have been spraying yourself with the last couple of months, I think the doctors prescription would be to get some released or wiped away from your skin. The best product to accomplish that is not hydrogen peroxide but natural fresh copulins. You know you need some and the lady seems to be a willing donor.😉 > > c. Maybe there is nothing wrong in the conversations. Maybe, what is going on is that you are putting out such a strong sensual vibe that they don’t want to talk, they want to f… find more pleasurable ways of interacting with you, if you allow them. > > Keep going! You are standing on the frame of the door out of the box. Good stuff. Thanks Vangelis. Good point about the strong sexual vibe. It will drive away some women and I’m willing to live with that. I like the idea of the fresh copulins but for now it’s hydrogen peroxide for me. I wiped down with hydrogen peroxide last night because i sprayed myself with well over 20 mcg of -None over the course of the night. ---
**Author:** ![moonwhisper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/moonwhisper/32/1735_2.png) [@moonwhisper](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/moonwhisper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/130 "2009-07-24T20:51:55Z")
> [@metalTree](#): > > Thanks Moonwhisper. Yeah, I think this night well help build up my confidence a little bit. > > I could certainly buy it here in New York if I wanted to. But I have this fantasy in my head about becoming a man who is amazing with women. I’m really just trying to make this fantasy come true. 🙂 You’ll make this happen, I know it. You have the drive and the confidence is building now. You must have whatever else it takes because this one girl couldn’t leave you alone. I have never requested kisses from one man three different times in one night. Well, not unless we were playing some kind of game. 😉 The way I see it, she did want you, but she wanted to test things out a little and see if it was worth pursuing. Next time give her a taste, but don’t let her linger too long…she’ll probably be begging for more. ---
**Author:** ![pherophreak](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pherophreak/32/1531_2.png) [@pherophreak](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pherophreak)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/131 "2009-07-24T21:54:47Z")
> [@metalTree](#): > > Thanks Moonwhisper. Yeah, I think this night well help build up my confidence a little bit. > > I could certainly buy it here in New York if I wanted to. But I have this fantasy in my head about becoming a man who is amazing with women. I’m really just trying to make this fantasy come true. 🙂 That’s a good fantasy. One you can achieve if you keep working. You’ve got the skills, now you just need to use them. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/132 "2009-07-26T17:41:12Z")
Social group pheromone success Tonight was the final proof I needed that pheromones can help me out in group social situations. I went out with my friend, his wife, and two of her single friends. One of the single friends was the one who wasn’t attracted to me at all when I was set up with her in the past. (She is one of the girls I had a good conversation with her during the happy hour this past Thursday.) She was very comfortable around me and she made lots of physical contact with me while dancing. If she wasn’t a close friend of my friend’s wife, I would definitely have made a move on her. But since my goal is to have casual sex, it would be wise to not do that with people in the social group. Last night I wore: 1 Spray of my 4:1 Cologne/NPA mix. 1 Drop of A314 (LS Version) I met the group and my interaction with the group was effortless. We talked and danced throughout the entire evening. My interaction with my friend’s wife was better than it ever was. In the past the wife would get bored talking to me very quickly and she would have long conversations with other people. She doesn’t seem to get bored with me anymore and my conversation style isn’t any different than it was previoiusly. My friend’s wife also had her hands all over my friend (her husband) and was more kissy with him than usual. Could that have been caused by the NPA I was wearing? 🙂 In my pre-pheromone days, the evening would have played out very differently. I would have showed up and my friend and I would have just hung out and talked. The three girls would have been in a circle and made polite conversation with us but did their own thing. That was the pattern in the past with this social group. But tonight the five of use interacted and had fun for three straight hours. To be honest, there was only one instance in my entire adult life where I has able to interact this successfully in a group situation and have this much fun. That previous time, there were two social butterflies in the group that had the social skill to carry me along. This evening was different because there were no social butterflies in the group. I actually felt like the group really thought it was enjoyable to have me around. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/133 "2009-07-26T18:57:01Z")
The End - Conclusions I am concluding my journal. If I make any pheromone discoveries that are worth mentioning I will add more posts. I’ve come close to finalizing my mixes so I’m not going to do anymore experimentation except perhaps some minor fine tuning of my mixes. I would like to thank everyone who gave me encouragement and everyone who read my journal. **Reasons for Concluding Journal** 1. I have done enough experimenting to find effective mixes for various situations. 2. I have not had that many projects at work in the past couple of months but I will be busy at work the next few weeks. I got approved for a few little projects which is good during this recession. (I get paid per project so the lack of funds kind of sucked.) 3. I have been borderline obsessive reading this forum and learning everything I can about pheromones that last couple of months. Some days I’ve been obsessively checking the forums to the point where it was borderline unhealthy. My knowledge of pheromones is pretty strong for a casual user now. 4. There are definitely more steps I can take to improve myself socially and my ability to attract women. But this forum is about pheromones and I’m satisfied with the mixes that I have and my strategy for using the pheromones in various situations. **Pheromone and Consumer Product Conclusions** Androstenol I’ve done some testing with Alpha-Androstenol and Beta-Androstenol with the Instant Openness and Instant Honesty products. I have not done extensive testing because I have found my best mixes don’t involve these molecules. My preliminary results with Instant Openness and Instant Honesty gave me the impression that they weaken the -None vibe. It also seems to make men more talkative towards me but does not make women more talkative. I think this is molecule that is great for softening a person’s image and making a person more approachable. It’s great for making people more open as well. I am already very approachable and people are already comfortable around me. In my natural pheromone free state people naturally like to confide in me and share intimate details with me as long as I don’t bore them too much when we first meet. I have decided that I have no use at all for the Androstenol molecules. My Instant Openness and Instant Honesty are in a box perhaps never to be removed again. Androstenone (-None)I’ve tested Instant Jerk, TUTH, and NPA extensively. (Most of my TUTH testing was from before I started the journal.) Androstenone seems to have the effect of making people desire my company. If anything, this molecule makes people more chatty with me, not less. For many people, this molecule seems to have the effect that androstenol is supposed to have. One exception to this is there has been a few times when I have been interacting with a woman while wearing a very heavy dose of -None. In the middle of the interaction, they will just turn around a bolt away like they need to get away from me as fast as they can. I still haven’t figured out what is going on in there head when this happens. Androstenone clearly increases the number of IOIs I get when I’m out (subjective measurement.) It also increases the number of women who approach me. It increases the frequency of makeouts with women. It increases the number of women who grab or rub my chest. It increases the number of women who rub their boobs into me as they walk by. In the past when I went out regularly to bars/clubs without pheromones, I would get approached maybe 1-3 times a month by women in one way or another. During the last month, I have been approached by many more women than that. Androsterone I do not use [Instant Gentleman](https://a314.com/product/gentleman/). But I do use A314 which has Androsterone as a primary ingredient. When I tried A314 alone, it didn’t have a noticeable effect. But when I added it to Instant Jerk, it seemed to enhance the effect of Instant Jerk. It seemed so successful that I decided that I would never go without it again. To be thorough, I really should go out several times without A314 and several times with A314 to prove this. But I’m satisfied with my preliminary conclusions so I’m not going to bother. Ammo 2X I’ve tried Ammo double strength a few times and it seems to have no effect for me. People around me act, behave, and treat me exactly the same way they do when I have no pheromones on. To be sure I really should do more testing with Ammo to prove this. But since I already found pheromone mixes that are incredibly effective is various situations, there is really no reason to bother with this. My Ammo 2X is in a box perhaps never to be used again. TUTH This was the first product that I tried out in bars/clubs. I got some nice hits with it and I was approached by women wearing this product. The thing I don’t like about this product is that I can’t get good info on how it works, especially since it is only 2.5 mcg of -None. The forums seem to indicate that it diffuses very fast and hits hard so that means it will be very strong at first but not last that long. The forums also seemed to indicate that there are other sexual molecules in TUTH which are not necessarily pheromones. But I can’t find any evidence to confirm or refute these assertions. I have posted questions on these topics but I didn’t get any good answers. ☹ I’ve decided that I will use TUTH as a refresher spray later in the night or if I want to supercharge myself with a strong -None presence. The theory is that a supercharged -None presence will scare off many women but make some women super attracted. I have a mix which is 80% TUTH and 20% cologne. That is what I use as a refresher spray. Instant JerkThis is a very good product and it would be my favorite except that I like NPA better. But Instant Jerk and NPA are similar in effectiveness and I don’t know if one is better than the other. NPAI’ve only worn NPA twice. I’ve worn a 4:1 NPA cologne mix out with a social group both times and it worked great for me in the social group. I also went out to some bars by myself after the social group went home and I had a makeout and several IOIs. I like being able to make custom strenth mixes with my own cologne so, this product will be my base product. If raw power ever comes out again, I may make that my base instead but I am not sure yet. Instant Honesty and Instant Openness See my Androstenol section above. **Conclusions on the Effectiveness of Pheromones - On becoming a badass** Deep inside my soul, I was hoping that wearing pheromones would change me from an easygoing invisible guy that everyone was overly comfortable with to a complete badass that didn’t give a crap and had a hard edge to him. Even with massive doses of -None, I did not change into a badass. Fortunately, the pheromones did change my vibe, it was just not exactly what I was shooting for. I turned from an invisible guy into a desirable guy in both group social situations and bar/club situations. I did not change from an easygoing guy into a badass. But I did change from a plain invisible beta male into a sexy guy. Most of the women I met still thought I was easygoing and comfortable. (Except for the few who suddenly ran away from me for no apparent reason.) But there clearly have been more women attracted to me with pheromones than without. More people actually want to have conversations with me than before. Sure, there are still conversations that die off quickly. But there have been many more instances than usual where people have desired longer conversations with me. **Standard Mixes** Socializing with people I know and all daytime non-work situations 1 Spray of 1:4 NPA/Cologne Mix 1 Drop of A314 Clubbing/bar hoping/meat market situations 1 Spray of 1:3 NPA/Cologne Mix 2 Drops of A314 Togo Bottle of 4:1 TUTH/Cologne mix to spray on when I’m out. (_I still might use a 1:4 NPA/Cologne Mix and 1 drop of A314 sometimes but this is more just fine tuning than anything else._) Work 1 Drop of A314 ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/134 "2009-08-08T17:10:33Z")
Evolver Visit, Apocalypse opener, and saving young girl I don’t have any new information on pheromones for this posting. I’m still using my standard NPA/Cologne mix and A314. Evolver is visiting NYC this weekend and I had the privilege of meeting him and going out to a nightclub with him last night. Evolver’s visit was worthy of a post in my journal. **Hanging out with Evolver** Evolver is one of the coolest guys I’ve met in a long time. He is a great conversationalist and he is constantly socializing with and meeting new women. Even before we went to the nightclub Evolver met quite a few women and most of the women I saw him talked to seemed to love him. He is quite amazing with women and I learned quite a lot just by observing him in action. We went to Pacha last night which is the largest nightclub in NYC. We got there around 11:30PM and stayed until 4AM. We hung out sporadically at the club dancing and having fun and at times we each went off on our own and hung out with the women we met at the club. It was a great experience watching Evolver on the dance floor. He has a fun loving vibe and interacts with many women while dancing on the dance floor. It was a great learning experience watching him on the dance floor. I spent the vast majority of my time at Pacha with this Japanese girl I met. It was early and the Pacha wasn’t that crowded yet. Evolver and I and just checked out the top level. (On the top level Evolver has already met a group of cute women who took a liking to him.) We walked down to the mezzanine level and we were walking through the bar area. **Hung out with Japanese girl - Didn’t tell me about her boyfriend** There was a group of Asian girls taking photos so I stopped short so I wouldn’t interfere with the photo. As I was turning around, a Japanese girl was giving me such strong, intense, unwavering eye contact that I almost fell over. This eye contact was so strong that it was an unmistakable IOI. So I started talking with her and we took an immediate liking to each other. There was lots of mutual attraction and we ended up spending most of the next three hours together. By the end we were holding hands and cuddling a little bit on the couch. Over the course of our time together, I asked her to go home with me at few times and each time was a no but asking her seemed to make her like me even more. I tried to kiss her but she didn’t want to. Near the end of the night Evolver told me that the Japanese girl I was with had a boyfriend. The girl’s friends told him this information. During the three hours we spent together she never mentioned him to me. Interesting. **Late night Approaches** It was really late in the night and the ratio was very bad at this point. I decideded that I’m going to just do a bunch of cold approaches and do the Apocalypse Opener. On the main dance floor area I walked up to three different girls and said hi. They flat out rejected me by turning away or walking away from me before I could even try the opener. I went to the mezzanine level and there was this attractive blonde woman standing alone. I started talking to her and she was giving me good eye contact. But I chickened out and just did small talk. **Apocalypse Opener** I finally opened a girl with the Apocalypse Opener for the first time in my life. There was an attractive girl standing at the bar. I approached her and looked into her eyes and I was walking towards her. She looked into my eyes in return without looking away as I approached. The conversation went like this. Me: “Hi, how are you?” Her: “Fine, how are you?” Me: “So, what are you doing later?” Her: “Just hanging out, How about you?” Me: “Would you like to go home with me tonight?” (She looks a bit surprised, turns away briefly, smiles, and laughs. Then she turns back towards me with a smile on her face.) Her: I have a boyfriend but thank you. Me: That’s cool. You’re attractive so I just had to ask. Her: You will definitely get laid tonight. (smiling) Me: Not too many good looking women left here. I don’t want to go home with just anyone. So, was my approach good? Her: Yeah, the approach was good. Me: Bye, it was great meeting you. Her: Bye! Good Luck! (Later when I walked by the area again she was with a guy who presumably was her boyfriend.) I went back downstairs and saw Evolver making out with a girl near the dance floor. He is amazing with women. **Delays getting home** I went to the 50th street subway station. I heard the train before I went into the subway entrance so I ran as fast I as could. I swiped my card, jumped down a stairway with about seven steps to skip all the steps and I squeezed into the train just as the doors were closing. Unfortunately that was A-Train, not the E-Train. I didn’t realize that I was on the wrong train until the train reached 72nd street. So I got off and walked to the N-Train on 57th street. That train brings me to within 10 minutes of my apartment so I decided to take that one. Once I got into the station I had just missed my the train so I had to wait forever for the next one. Finally, the train rolls into my stop. **Saving of young girl from creep** So, it’s after 5AM and it’s almost daybreak. I get off the train and headed towards the stairway in my own little world daydreaming. Next thing I know this girl (late teens possibly early 20s) grabs on to my arm and holds on very tightly. She asks me to walk her home and she is on the verge of tears. Then I notice that this really creepy guy with a loud voice is yelling at her. He says, “I don’t believe this!” and says some other things to her. I think this guy must have been harassing her on the train. She didn’t like what he was saying to him and he was getting angry. She was very afraid. There were other people walking down the stairway of the elevated platform but strangely she selected me to protect her from the creep. I’m probably not the best choice since I’m probably the most passive guy in all of Queens. If the creep did attack, I hope I would have been able to fight him and protect her but I have never gotten into a fight in my life. I never learned how to fight. I hope my instincts would have been good enough to handle the fight but I have never been tested. I wonder if it was the combination of -None & A314 that gave her the impression that I would be a good protector. Anyway, the guy shouted a few more things at us and took left. Apparently the -None + A314 scared him away. So I ask her how far she lives and she just says, “please walk me home” and continues to hold my arm tightly. She was in the complete opposite direction of where I lived but I couldn’t just leave her on her own like that since she was very shaken up and incredibly scared. So I walk her home and she is still clinging to my arm very tightly. I ask her if she is okay and she says, “No!”. I’m trying to think of some way to comfort her but I can’t so we just walk. So we get to her place and she starts thanking me. She gives me a huge hug like I had saved her life or something. At the time I thought that was unusual but now that I think of it, maybe I did save her life. It turned out that jumping on the A-Train instead of the E-Train earlier on my way home ended up being a good thing. So after I dropped her off at her apartment I retraced my steps, walked home, and went to bed. ---
**Author:** ![wrymslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bc79bd/32.png) [@wrymslayer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/wrymslayer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/135 "2009-08-08T23:19:00Z")
Glad to see you posting again MetalTree. Even if its a special report. Sounds like you and Evolver had a good time. Nice to hear that you took the approach with the blonde and asked her home. Your making progress 🙂 Keep up the good work! ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/136 "2009-08-10T07:23:40Z")
The Apocalypse Opener. Man, that takes some stones. Kudos to you for giving that a run. If you do ever want to learn how to fight, I can offer a good recommendation for a school in NYC. But that’s neither here nor there. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/137 "2009-08-15T18:38:26Z")
Maybe IJ is better than NPA - More questions than answers Since I started using pheromones I discovered that my sweet spot is the following: 1 Spray of [Instant Jerk](https://a314.com/product/instant-jerk/) 1 Drops of A314 (Andriotics Version) 1 - 4 Sprays of TUTH (Haven’t figured out optimal dose of TUTH yet) I switched to NPA/Cologne because I can’t smell none and I was afraid that the essential oils in Instant Jerk were not strong enough to cover the cat piss odor that others can smell. I liked the idea of mixing NPA with my own cologne. I also have been using Love Scent’s A314 with the NPA because I felt it’s scent mixed better with my cologne. I have found the following about NPA. 1. The combo is great when I’m hanging out with my social groups 2. I get a fair amount of IOIs with the combo when I’m out. 3. Girls are more receptive to cold approaches when I wear it than when I don’t. But, I realized that I have not been approached by any women since I have switched to NPA/A314(love scent version). I have gotten great IOIs that led me to approaches that went well. But women stopped approaching me. I had gotten approached by women quite frequently in bars when I was wearing the Instant Jerk. I have not gotten approached by any women at all with the NPA. I don’t know why this is. ☹ I’m ditching my cologne for now and going back to pure Instant Jerk, Andriotics A314, and pure TUTH. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/138 "2009-08-21T01:48:40Z")
New Mix I made a new mix: 1 Part NPA 6 Parts [Instant Jerk](https://a314.com/product/instant-jerk/) 2 Parts D&G Light Blue Cologne The goal is to be able to give myself 2 sprays of the mix without reeking of cologne yet have enough cologne so the None will never stink. This mix has approximately 11 mcg None Per spray and about 5 mcg of other pheromones per spray based on my rough calculations on a hand calculator. ---
**Author:** ![moonwhisper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/moonwhisper/32/1735_2.png) [@moonwhisper](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/moonwhisper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/139 "2009-08-21T06:23:06Z")
> [@metalTree](#): > > **Saving of young girl from creep** > So, it’s after 5AM and it’s almost daybreak. I get off the train and headed towards the stairway in my own little world daydreaming. Next thing I know this girl (late teens possibly early 20s) grabs on to my arm and holds on very tightly. She asks me to walk her home and she is on the verge of tears. Then I notice that this really creepy guy with a loud voice is yelling at her. He says, “I don’t believe this!” and says some other things to her. > > I think this guy must have been harassing her on the train. She didn’t like what he was saying to him and he was getting angry. She was very afraid. There were other people walking down the stairway of the elevated platform but strangely she selected me to protect her from the creep. I’m probably not the best choice since I’m probably the most passive guy in all of Queens. If the creep did attack, I hope I would have been able to fight him and protect her but I have never gotten into a fight in my life. I never learned how to fight. I hope my instincts would have been good enough to handle the fight but I have never been tested. I wonder if it was the combination of -None & A314 that gave her the impression that I would be a good protector. Anyway, the guy shouted a few more things at us and took left. Apparently the -None + A314 scared him away. > > So I ask her how far she lives and she just says, “please walk me home” and continues to hold my arm tightly. She was in the complete opposite direction of where I lived but I couldn’t just leave her on her own like that since she was very shaken up and incredibly scared. So I walk her home and she is still clinging to my arm very tightly. I ask her if she is okay and she says, “No!”. I’m trying to think of some way to comfort her but I can’t so we just walk. So we get to her place and she starts thanking me. She gives me a huge hug like I had saved her life or something. At the time I thought that was unusual but now that I think of it, maybe I did save her life. It turned out that jumping on the A-Train instead of the E-Train earlier on my way home ended up being a good thing. So after I dropped her off at her apartment I retraced my steps, walked home, and went to bed. Metal Tree…you are my hero of the week! I can’t seem to wipe the smile off my face after reading this. You really rose to the occasion. That takes a lot more guts and balls than any apocalypse opener, in my opinion. I always figured you for a good guy. Now I see I was right. If you were here I could just kiss you. ---
**Author:** ![metalTree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@metalTree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/metalTree)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931/140 "2009-08-24T00:18:48Z")
> [@moonwhisper](#): > > Metal Tree…you are my hero of the week! > I can’t seem to wipe the smile off my face after reading this. You really rose to the occasion. That takes a lot more guts and balls than any apocalypse opener, in my opinion. > I always figured you for a good guy. > Now I see I was right. > > If you were here I could just kiss you. Thanks Moonwhisper. It could have have been a dangerous situation but it worked out okay. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931.md?page=6) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/to-be-less-harmless-and-more-polarizing/29931.md?page=8)