# "Venting" my Adventures **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Journals\ **Created:** [January 8, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664 "2009-01-08T20:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/401 "2009-04-22T21:54:11Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Its kind of the same thing as copulins though. On a guy they really shouldn’t produce results, but on me its like wow, super confidence-swagger. When I wear Dirty I am the man. > > So maybe TAH could work that way too. You don’t walk with a swagger after getting laid? (I sure do) I would assume that copulins would reproduce those “after getting laid” feelings - which tend to be pretty damn good feelings. It would be interesting to test how copulins affect someone with negative associations with having sex with females. Would copulins produce confidence self-effects on a Highly Gay man? (highly gay meaning absoutely no attraction to women) ---
**Author:** ![Tigerlilly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tigerlilly/32/2257_2.png) [@Tigerlilly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Tigerlilly)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/402 "2009-04-22T23:44:56Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > @Diane999: > > I wonder if a guy who is seriously intimidated by good looking women, could use TAH as a way to take some of the preconceived value they place on looks of a woman away. In the right balance of shyness and intimidation perhaps the guy would get enough “disrespect” for the woman to actually approach her. Not to be disrespectful or placing any value on her, but taking away enough of the false value he has already placed on her looks to bring her down to a level consistent of a person he is just meeting for the first time who has not earned any value yet. I’ve read this a few times, and thought about it, and my opinion doesn’t change… I really, really don’t like this thought process. To me, it’s twisting and contorting what is a beautiful phero. _MY_ experiences of it are “falling in love” feelings. To use it as a way to “disrespect” a women, to devalue her, to make an easier approach, is shocking to me. However, this strikes at the heart of the PUA/Game stuff that is rampant in the men’s section. No matter how many times a woman will say “that crap doesn’t work” the only response you hear is: “women don’t know what they want.” “never listen to a woman” blah blah blah I have never, ever, been picked up or whatever by PUA/Game/Mystery method tactics. I can smell it a mile away, and shut them down, quick. If I don’t see authenticity, then it’s over. This is the same way with everyone I know. PUA’s befuddle me. I can understand a few of the guys who say that the “game” aspects have helped them gain confidence and learn social skills. I can appreciate that. but sometimes it seems to take on a life of it’s own, and become it’s own beast, so all they are doing is evaluating a woman as a target, a problem to be conquered, a thing to work through, as opposed to a real live person. That process seems to inherently devalue every woman they then meet, so they are perpetually evaluating them through this framework. And then, when evaluating a phero that seems to potentially indicate that some men behave disrespectfully - for whatever reason - it’s suggested as a product to be used _to_ devalue a woman? I’m sorry, that’s shocking to me. We’ve parried back and forth quite a bit here about why it seems some men behave in this manner as responders to TAH. Perhaps a wonky way of viewing femininity. Perhaps a biochemical angle. Perhaps a simple preference for a stronger, more dominant chemical signatures. We don’t know at this point. I also take umbrage with the phrase “…who has not earned any value yet…” I approach everyone - everyone - that I meet already assuming that they are worth their weight in gold. That they are to be worshipped. That they are a great person. That there is someone in their life who believes that about them, and so I should treat them that way. It’s how I raised my son, who went from a drop out student and a three time rehab expellee with a horrible relationship with his parents, to a 3.5 gpa student, with amazing self confidence and esteem, love for everybody he meets, and authentic relationships with many, many good, true friends. He found the strength within himself to change, but he did it in an environment of **unconditional** love and respect for him as a human being. So to say that someone hasn’t “earned any value” is crazy talk to me. I can’t understand that thinking. That’s a bad spiral to start viewing people in, in my opinion. I wonder though, if PUA’s view _all_ people like that… or just women. I realize I am painting PUA’s with a broad brush - I don’t think they all think like this, but I do see some people getting very very wrapped up in the game and missing out on the _human_ element. Missing out on the people. It becomes a devalued “game” of tactics. To me, that’s not life. ☹ My $.02… ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/403 "2009-04-22T23:57:47Z")
> [@Wrlprchnx](#): > > You don’t walk with a swagger after getting laid? (I sure do) > > I would assume that copulins would reproduce those “after getting laid” feelings - which tend to be pretty damn good feelings. > > It would be interesting to test how copulins affect someone with negative associations with having sex with females. Would copulins produce confidence self-effects on a Highly Gay man? (highly gay meaning absoutely no attraction to women) Getting laid and wearing copulins from a bottle are completely different ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/404 "2009-04-23T00:20:03Z")
> [@Tigerlilly](#): > > I’ve read this a few times, and thought about it, and my opinion doesn’t change… > > I really, really don’t like this thought process. > > To me, it’s twisting and contorting what is a beautiful phero. _MY_ experiences of it are “falling in love” feelings. To use it as a way to “disrespect” a women, to devalue her, to make an easier approach, is shocking to me. > > However, this strikes at the heart of the PUA/Game stuff that is rampant in the men’s section. > > No matter how many times a woman will say “that crap doesn’t work” the only response you hear is: > “women don’t know what they want.” > “never listen to a woman” > blah blah blah > > I have never, ever, been picked up or whatever by PUA/Game/Mystery method tactics. I can smell it a mile away, and shut them down, quick. > > If I don’t see authenticity, then it’s over. This is the same way with everyone I know. > > PUA’s befuddle me. > > I can understand a few of the guys who say that the “game” aspects have helped them gain confidence and learn social skills. I can appreciate that. but sometimes it seems to take on a life of it’s own, and become it’s own beast, so all they are doing is evaluating a woman as a target, a problem to be conquered, a thing to work through, as opposed to a real live person. > > That process seems to inherently devalue every woman they then meet, so they are perpetually evaluating them through this framework. > > And then, when evaluating a phero that seems to potentially indicate that some men behave disrespectfully - for whatever reason - it’s suggested as a product to be used _to_ devalue a woman? > > I’m sorry, that’s shocking to me. > > We’ve parried back and forth quite a bit here about why it seems some men behave in this manner as responders to TAH. Perhaps a wonky way of viewing femininity. Perhaps a biochemical angle. Perhaps a simple preference for a stronger, more dominant chemical signatures. We don’t know at this point. > > I also take umbrage with the phrase “…who has not earned any value yet…” > > I approach everyone - everyone - that I meet already assuming that they are worth their weight in gold. That they are to be worshipped. That they are a great person. That there is someone in their life who believes that about them, and so I should treat them that way. > > It’s how I raised my son, who went from a drop out student and a three time rehab expellee with a horrible relationship with his parents, to a 3.5 gpa student, with amazing self confidence and esteem, love for everybody he meets, and authentic relationships with many, many good, true friends. He found the strength within himself to change, but he did it in an environment of **unconditional** love and respect for him as a human being. > > So to say that someone hasn’t “earned any value” is crazy talk to me. I can’t understand that thinking. That’s a bad spiral to start viewing people in, in my opinion. > > I wonder though, if PUA’s view _all_ people like that… or just women. > > I realize I am painting PUA’s with a broad brush - I don’t think they all think like this, but I do see some people getting very very wrapped up in the game and missing out on the _human_ element. Missing out on the people. > > It becomes a devalued “game” of tactics. > > To me, that’s not life. ☹ > > My $.02… Well now that you have gone off on a tangent that had ZERO to do with my post (Please do NOT twist my words) allow me to rebut. There is not one thing in my post that says anything about PUA. NOTHING, and in fact if you knew anything about me you would have known that I dont follow pick up ideals anymore.😮 What I said and will reemphasize is, if a man is so shy that he has a difficult or impossible time approaching a women that he sees as beautiful, than perhaps TAH can offset that beauty enough for him to approach her, thus overcoming his shyness. Is it bad to want someone to overcome a crippling shyness? Is it your stance that a man should place value alone on a woman’s looks? I also clearly said **not to disrespect her** , but to take enough of **“his”** false beliefs that she is better than him based on looks alone to be able to speak with her. > [@](#): > > No matter how many times a woman will say “that crap doesn’t work” the only response you hear is: > “women don’t know what they want.” > “never listen to a woman” > blah blah blah Really? Please cite the source where I have EVER said that? It’s OK you wont be able to find it since it has never happened. :o > [@](#): > > And then, when evaluating a phero that seems to potentially indicate that some men behave disrespectfully - for whatever reason - it’s suggested as a product to be used _to_ devalue a woman? Where did I write this? Show me the example of where I have this in my post? > [@](#): > > I wonder if a guy who is seriously intimidated by good looking women, could use TAH as a way to **take some of the preconceived value they place on looks of a woman** away. In the right balance of shyness and intimidation perhaps the guy would get enough “disrespect” for the woman to actually approach her. **Not to be disrespectful** or placing any value on her, but **taking away enough of the false value he has already placed on her looks** to bring her down to a level consistent of a person he is just meeting for the first time who has not earned any value yet. It’s perplexing to me how how this can be misconstrued as pick up. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/405 "2009-04-23T01:49:13Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > @Diane999: > > I wonder if a guy who is seriously intimidated by good looking women, could use TAH as a way to take some of the preconceived value they place on looks of a woman away. In the right balance of shyness and intimidation perhaps the guy would get enough “disrespect” for the woman to actually approach her. Not to be disrespectful or placing any value on her, but taking away enough of the false value he has already placed on her looks to bring her down to a level consistent of a person he is just meeting for the first time who has not earned any value yet. Still trying to sort out this tangled skein… So, a guy is wearing TAH to try to take down the DHV of a woman? I don’t think it would work. I think instead he would be projecting a nice “Pink” vibe. I think a guy that needs to devalue a woman, instead of admire her, in order to approach her, needs serious emotional help. A man who holds himself in high esteem doesn’t need to pull down a woman’s value in order to meet her as an equal or to enjoy her for what she is. So he’d be better off working on his emotional issues in therapy rather than trying to find ways to pull people down to his level or lower. But that is beside the point. No, I don’t think TAH worn by a guy would work in the way you are imagining… but it might be a fine experiment if you can find any shy guys to wear TAH and see how it affects their approach anxiety. My fear, though, is that it will lessen his value even more than he originally was projects to the woman and it could backfire. TAH isn’t a serious vibe. I dunno, I wonder what type of woman would be attracted to a TAH kind of guy? Diane ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/406 "2009-04-23T03:33:27Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Still trying to sort out this tangled skein… > > So, a guy is wearing TAH to try to take down the DHV of a woman? I don’t think it would work. I think instead he would be projecting a nice “Pink” vibe. > > I think a guy that needs to devalue a woman, instead of admire her, in order to approach her, needs serious emotional help. A man who holds himself in high esteem doesn’t need to pull down a woman’s value in order to meet her as an equal or to enjoy her for what she is. > > So he’d be better off working on his emotional issues in therapy rather than trying to find ways to pull people down to his level or lower. > > But that is beside the point. No, I don’t think TAH worn by a guy would work in the way you are imagining… but it might be a fine experiment if you can find any shy guys to wear TAH and see how it affects their approach anxiety. My fear, though, is that it will lessen his value even more than he originally was projects to the woman and it could backfire. TAH isn’t a serious vibe. > > I dunno, I wonder what type of woman would be attracted to a TAH kind of guy? > > Diane I am not saying to devalue a woman or anyone else. You cannot take value from someone, unless they give it to you. The guy is elevating her value falsely based on her looks and nothing else. He has no idea who she is since he has never spoken with her and yet he has elevated her value above his based on her beauty. Therefor, if he could use TAH as a way to lower the falsely elevated value he has assigned based on looks. Perhaps the TAH would help him enough to see her as a person with the same value as he has (an equal starting point) rather than her value higher than his value based on looks alone. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/407 "2009-04-23T04:08:11Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > I am not saying to devalue a woman or anyone else. You cannot take value from someone, unless they give it to you. The guy is elevating her value falsely based on her looks and nothing else. He has no idea who she is since he has never spoken with her and yet he has elevated her value above his based on her beauty. Therefor, if he could use TAH as a way to lower the falsely elevated value he has assigned based on looks. Perhaps the TAH would help him enough to see her as a person with the same value as he has (an equal starting point) rather than her value higher than his value based on looks alone. Okay, so it seem devalue is a charged word and it is causing some splitting of hairs. Even with your clarification, I’m still not sure what you are asking. I still think anyone who has to bring the value of someone down in order to approach her, or have her approach him, whether it is from her looks, attitude, or whatever… it’s all subjective, after all… is looking at the world from a losing perspective. Even if the issue is not her value, but rather that he is giving her too much value in relation to him based on her looks, it is still problematic, wouldn’t you agree? But I think you are asking about something else, maybe. Like would TAH work to inhibit a guy from giving a woman false value based solely on her looks? Wow, I don’t know the answer to that. I don’t respond in a typical way to TAH and neither does my husband, so all I could offer is what I’ve read from other’s perspectives. When I first started reading the forum, I thought that TAH might give off a sexy, “easy” vibe to women, and TAL a more authoritative, sexy, but high value vibe. But that doesn’t seem to be the case so much. It seems that TAH gives off a soft, estrogenic vibe, whereas TAL is more of the testosterone, tigress vibe. How a guy responds to that vibe says more about the guy, maybe, than it does about the pheromone. So, I don’t know. But I still think a guy wearing TAH will give off a softer, more femine vibe. I think Androsterone or P80 is a better choice. It is sexy and approachable, enchanting, and authoritative, and it makes you feel high value enough that looks shouldn’t be that intimidating. What do you think? Diane ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/408 "2009-04-23T04:58:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Even if the issue is not her value, but rather that he is giving her too much value in relation to him based on her looks, it is still problematic, wouldn’t you agree? Of course its problematic, and yet how many men on here sign up here for that very reason? Knowing the numbers and calls I get I can safely guess 2/3rds. Shyness is relative to most guys being intimidated by a woman’s looks. I would bet that 2/3 of the 2/3 would not be shy amongst guys in their class, per say. While Rone and several other putatives would be a great choice, I am inclined to research other molecules and their potential to increase ones own value. In reality the person would not be devaluing anyone since a persons value can not be based on looks. Rone is a great molecule in allowing the individual to experience confidence. However confidence does not always overcome shyness. I have a very good friend who is a microwave engineer: brilliant and incredibly confident with himself, his friends, his career, but is way to shy to speak with ladies. Regardless of his confidence levels he just believes he does not have a chance with the beauty across the room based on the value he has assigned to her on looks alone. I used the words devalue and disrespect carefully as they were words you chose for your husbands reactions to you. Hence why I was very careful to write that it was not to devalue or disrespect a persons natural given value, but only the value placed on another based solely on looks alone. Certainly basing a persons looks as a scale of value is biased and inherently skewed to begin with. Should I really care about Miss California’s response to the gay marriage question based on the very real fact she is beautiful, or rather care that it was a genuine response given by a genuine person regardless of anything else? Now I based my questions, as an inquisitive researcher, based on your report of your husbands response to TAH. In the spirit of research I am wondering if TAH would have a similar effect, yet working from a different perspective? I asked you because I respect your research and thought you might have some insight. Thanks for your input ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/409 "2009-04-23T05:43:05Z")
_squeal_ i LOVE this conversation _SQUEAL_ i sprayed mr Tommy Fever with both TAH and instant gentleman tonight so that i can have a males perpective on this particular mixture of pheros… i cant wait till he posts about it!!! so tonight, i wore: 60mu TAH all over the upper part of my bod, 2 sprays of instant gentleman to both wrists as previously foretold. OMG the first 10 minutes was scary. the instant gentleman was overwhelming for me. im used to it sprayed on another, not 1 foot away from me at all times ! i got mildly dizzy and agitated for 10-15 minutes. everyone calling my name at once didnt help matters- i liken this situation to being in a very busy hospital and i am the only doctor… 30 minutes later, im feeling like i own the place, but not in a cocky way. i just felt very confident in my own social abilities and knew my worth to the company. one noticible oddity: it was as if i was wearing IH X 10 ! no one would let me go, i could walk away from a conversation saying “another time maybe” and if i accidentally made eye contact, conversation was ON … it was as though i was the only adult in the room. sometimes this was acceptable, sometimes i was aggravated by the neediness that seemed to permeate the room. im not claiming this is the only perspective, but this is how it all seemed in the moment. i got self-effects from the gentleman. a mixture of upbeat confidence, and total irritation with anyones _seeming_ dependance on my presence. how did the TAH figure in? it kind of didnt. not for self-effects, but very much so for everyone else. alot of great comradery hits with women. women actually loved this mix. men’s reaction were very positive, very respectful, i got the positivity of TAH without the loving incense burning i usually get. i wanted more incense. 2 sprays of gentleman were too much for my little self. im willing to bet that tweaking the dosage would rock. i would try 1 spray IG (strong scent :o) and 60-80 mu TAH. its 8-9 hours after application and i _still_ smell strongly of 'rone. oooh and here is the tip difference- while tips were not over the top or even standard at times, there were more people making sure i got tipped, even if it wasnt as much as my MX134 days … i averaged 21% tips. definately not complaining, but this would not be my working choice. bossman BTW left everything in my hands, even though he was present. this is odd, since he enjoys the beer banter. i was treated with repect tonight, but definatley not like a _woman._ ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/410 "2009-04-23T05:53:46Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Still trying to sort out this tangled skein… > > So, a guy is wearing TAH to try to take down the DHV of a woman? I don’t think it would work. I think instead he would be projecting a nice “Pink” vibe. > > I think a guy that needs to devalue a woman, instead of admire her, in order to approach her, needs serious emotional help. A man who holds himself in high esteem doesn’t need to pull down a woman’s value in order to meet her as an equal or to enjoy her for what she is. > > So he’d be better off working on his emotional issues in therapy rather than trying to find ways to pull people down to his level or lower. > > But that is beside the point. No, I don’t think TAH worn by a guy would work in the way you are imagining… but it might be a fine experiment if you can find any shy guys to wear TAH and see how it affects their approach anxiety. My fear, though, is that it will lessen his value even more than he originally was projects to the woman and it could backfire. TAH isn’t a serious vibe. > > I dunno, I wonder what type of woman would be attracted to a TAH kind of guy? > > Diane i can honestly say that TAH makes a guy more approachable to women. now what these women are thinking, i do not know. Tommy Fever came in with not one but TWO women tonight. TAH is a good thing i think. with 'rone, the female vibe is slaughtered i believe, based on this one experiment. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/411 "2009-04-23T10:25:34Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Of course its problematic, and yet how many men on here sign up here for that very reason? Knowing the numbers and calls I get I can safely guess 2/3rds. Shyness is relative to most guys being intimidated by a woman’s looks. I would bet that 2/3 of the 2/3 would not be shy amongst guys in their class, per say. > > While Rone and several other putatives would be a great choice, I am inclined to research other molecules and their potential to increase ones own value. In reality the person would not be devaluing anyone since a persons value can not be based on looks. > > Rone is a great molecule in allowing the individual to experience confidence. However confidence does not always overcome shyness. I have a very good friend who is a microwave engineer: brilliant and incredibly confident with himself, his friends, his career, but is way to shy to speak with ladies. Regardless of his confidence levels he just believes he does not have a chance with the beauty across the room based on the value he has assigned to her on looks alone. This is a touchy subject, but I’m going to give my perspective on it based on my own beliefs and experience. I don’t want you or anyone else to get offended. As conscious, thinking beings who have a need to make all incoming stimulus rational and meaningful, we label things. Labeling things boxes them in and blinds us to other, perhaps also useful, meaning. We frame things for our own sanity and comfort and sense of well-being. To label is to halt growth that is painful, by making something that is truly unknown, known. And we do place value of one sort or another based on the frames we assign someone (or ourselves) to. From what you have said above, your friend uses “too beautiful” as a label for this reason, to give meaning to his body’s sensations of being inadequate with her and to lessen his anxiety around it. He doesn’t see that to frame her as “too beautiful” is to label himself as “not beautiful enough to be with her.” We always frame ourselves in relation to the other frames we create. He can wear all the approach pheromones in the tool box and still end up rejecting every woman who approaches who falls into his comfort frame of “too beautiful” because he is “too shy” - another self-imposed frame. > [@Steve](#): > > I used the words devalue and disrespect carefully as they were words you chose for your husbands reactions to you. Hence why I was very careful to write that it was not to devalue or disrespect a persons natural given value, but only the value placed on another based solely on looks alone. I understand and I wasn’t offended. > [@Steve](#): > > Certainly basing a persons looks as a scale of value is biased and inherently skewed to begin with. Should I really care about Miss California’s response to the gay marriage question based on the very real fact she is beautiful, or rather care that it was a genuine response given by a genuine person regardless of anything else? > > Now I based my questions, as an inquisitive researcher, based on your report of your husbands response to TAH. In the spirit of research I am wondering if TAH would have a similar effect, yet working from a different perspective? I asked you because I respect your research and thought you might have some insight. Thanks for your input Thank you, Steve. I wish I could be more helpful. But pheromones only enhance what is there. Pheromones can be used as an adjunct, but real work to change the frames still has to take place to change the underlying beliefs and methods of operation. If your friend wanted to change his self frame and the way he frames women who are “too beautiful” but experiences too much anxiety when he tries, I would suggest: Androsterone P91 TAF The reason I chose these is that Androsterone gives you confidence and a sense of self value that is not dependent on what others think. P91 acts to take yourself out of yourself, becoming thoughtful and wanting to love others for who they are. P91 is _appreciative._ TAF has ego-balm characteristics and ability to reset null-frames and make things new. TAF also has social anxiety-blocking properties. This combination could work for him to lower the anxiety he experiences while he works on getting out of his self imposed frames of “not beautiful enough” and “too shy.” But he still has to do something and not just sit still and dig the vibe. Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/412 "2009-04-23T10:32:28Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > i can honestly say that TAH makes a guy more approachable to women. > > now what these women are thinking, i do not know. > > Tommy Fever came in with not one but TWO women tonight. > TAH is a good thing i think. > with 'rone, the female vibe is slaughtered i believe, based on this one experiment. Tommy is confident with beautiful women, though, correct? I wonder what a shy guy wearing TAH alone would experience from women around him? And I wonder what he would experience wearing TAH alone? Diane ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 10:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/413 "2009-04-23T10:36:12Z")
_Shows neck._ Spray me with TAH Steve, I’m very shy with female friends at times or girls in general so I’d like to try this for research purposes and see if it’ll make me go up to them a lot easier. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/414 "2009-04-23T11:37:16Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Tommy is confident with beautiful women, though, correct? I wonder what a shy guy wearing TAH alone would experience from women around him? And I wonder what he would experience wearing TAH alone? Check out Renny’s journal in the men’s section. He took a spanish class at the local community college during the evening and used it as a testing ground BIG TIME. He ran a series wearing either TAL or TAH (I forget which) around the ladies in the class. Sorta made him “one of the girls” so to speak … but the guys look at you like … you are gay. Same thing sorta happened with me - but I forget which one we tested. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/415 "2009-04-23T11:42:54Z")
> [@bosshank](#): > > Check out Renny’s journal in the men’s section. He took a spanish class at the local community college during the evening and used it as a testing ground BIG TIME. He ran a series wearing either TAL or TAH (I forget which) around the ladies in the class. Sorta made him “one of the girls” so to speak … but the guys look at you like … you are gay. > > Same thing sorta happened with me - but I forget which one we tested. So would you say TAH alone would put you in the friend zone? Diane ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/416 "2009-04-23T13:00:50Z")
> [@bosshank](#): > > Check out Renny’s journal in the men’s section. He took a spanish class at the local community college during the evening and used it as a testing ground BIG TIME. He ran a series wearing either TAL or TAH (I forget which) around the ladies in the class. Sorta made him “one of the girls” so to speak … but the guys look at you like … you are gay. > > Same thing sorta happened with me - but I forget which one we tested. well im telling you now there is nothing girly about TAH in the presence of a little 'rone. _nothing._ _and i tried…😃_ ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/417 "2009-04-23T13:43:29Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > well im telling you now there is nothing girly about TAH in the presence of a little 'rone. > _nothing._ > _and i tried…😃_ I understood that from your post about Tommy’s trial. But has he tried wearing TAH alone without -rone? If he did, what was that effect with Tommy? The reason I’m asking is now I am curious if TAH would give off a girly vibe with a guy who is definitely comfortable around women. According to Boss, above, with shy guys it can give a gay vibe. Diane ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/418 "2009-04-23T13:50:37Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > I understood that from your post about Tommy’s trial. But has he tried wearing TAH alone without -rone? If he did, what was that effect with Tommy? > > The reason I’m asking is now I am curious if TAH would give off a girly vibe with a guy who is definitely comfortable around women. According to Boss, above, with shy guys it can give a gay vibe. > > Diane heh heh heh i’ll talk him into trying it tonight,mua hahahaha… where is he??? he needs to be posting about last nights mix! ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/419 "2009-04-23T13:55:36Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Tommy is confident with beautiful women, though, correct? I wonder what a shy guy wearing TAH alone would experience from women around him? And I wonder what he would experience wearing TAH alone? > > Diane im not sure not i would say one way or another about “confidence”… he isnt shy, but he has this way about him where women approach him more often than he approaches women. not often enough where experimenting isnt useful, but he could tell us better. ---
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664/420 "2009-04-23T14:01:57Z")
Now TAH making a guy more approachable - that makes sense to me I could definetly see going to far being a possibility and placing a guy in the friend-zone. My thoughts are that TAH is a cooperative [female pheromone](https://phera.com/) - a guy wearing it would be subconsciously identified as being part of the ladies group - that means the guy benefits instantly from increased comfort which is hugely important in the initial stage of developing attraction. Tigerlilly - PUA has largely moved on from the stuff you see on MTV with the Mystery Method. Alot of the bigger companies out there began looking at guys who were naturally amazing with women, and try to deconstruct it and teach that to other men. The kind of material out there makes sense now - it’s not about tricking girls into liking you (which I think MM is about)… it’s about developing your inner game (confidence, posture, having a life, beliefs, etc) while not ignoring outer game (MM is entirely outer game). Most of the outer game material is helping guys not look like total asses cold approaching women (because sometimes the girl that takes your breath away is not, and will never be, someone you would naturally meet), and helping them get by some of the shit tests ladies give when a guy cold approaches them. Ladies almost always give shit tests - SO DO GUYS… there just very, very different. Men test for long-term, women test for short-term. It makes sense because the risk/cost curves are opposite for men and women - A man’s opportunity cost rises with length in a relationship (the longer he is pinned down with one lady the less his chances of reproducing - obviously this is not a conscious thought process). A ladies spikes in the shorttern and then falls with length of relationship (As the relationship gets longer the risk of her being left pregnant and alone diminishes) Don’t take me wrong here I’m not saying all women want long-term and all guys want short-term… obviously other factors are at play (companionship) but it makes sense that guys creat communities to talk about getting past the short-term resistance of ladies and Ladies create communities to talk about getting past the long-term resistance of men (There are far more resources out there talking about how to get relationships to work more smoothly than there are for pick-up - those resources tend to have more women on their forums than men - once again… a general rule… not always applicable) [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664.md?page=20) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/venting-my-adventures/24664.md?page=22)