# very very very very low libido **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 17, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732 "2008-07-17T19:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cinci\_Jack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d9b06d/32.png) [@Cinci\_Jack](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cinci_Jack)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/41 "2009-06-12T15:51:39Z")
I find this thread fascinating, particularly since my wife and I will be celebrating 11 years of wedded bliss tomorrow. So, if I may, I’d like to offer a thought or two. Centaur offers, and Carrie seconds “If you want to remain engaged, embodied and afire with your woman, you’d do well to listen to her, be intimate with her, stay open in your own heart, dream with her, and not bail because it seems easier in the short term. Life is rocky; be a friend to have a friend, and most especially if eros is your goal.” Lor says, I assume sarcastically, "husband: its that time… wife: _sigh_ okay. lets get this overwith. husband: right on, its your duty! wife: well get on with it, i have stuff to do." My interpretation of the juxtaposition of these thoughts is that the man must face his relationship responsibilities and still take responsibility for the wifes response. Whitehall responds “If low libido is a treatable medical problem and she doesn’t make the effort, then she’s cutting herself a special deal. But if she expects to be supported and share my labor, but freezes me, then we need to renegotiate the terms of the marriage contract.” Both of these things can be true, at the same time, in the same relationship. Been there. No one is perfect, we are all subject to the vagaries of life stress and hormonal fluctuations; my wife has been fighting hypothyroidism for eight years. Imho, we all need to take our share of responsibilty for the success or failure of our realtionships, particularly if we’ve brought new human life into the world. Dr. Harley (MD, for what its worth) offers some fantastic advice on the [marriagebuilders.com](http://marriagebuilders.com) site (free) on how men and women can become expert at meeting each others emotional needs in a LTR, advice that has brought solid benefit to my life and marriage. Yes, I agree, men must follow the advice Centaur advocates; yes, I also agree, women must face their responsibility to meet their husbands/SO emotional needs. And both must do so willingly. There is a world of difference between ‘dignified acquiescence’ and ‘enthusiastic cooperation’, and we all know one from the other when we see it. Sorry for the rambling post but I hope I’ve offered some help. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/42 "2009-06-12T15:58:14Z")
Carrie, Nothing to argue with there. However, both men and women need to remember that _ **rejection takes its toll** _. ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/43 "2009-06-12T16:02:59Z")
well, i would never say the man is responsible for the wife’s response, but he does play a _part_ in it . _and vice versa_. i have been “married” for over 15 yrs and that wasnt without a 2 yr separation. i SOOO understand both sides here. and alot of our experiences (or how we choose to percieve them) colors alot of these responses,too. so in that regard, no one is really off but everything has the ability to morph into something better. my mom divorced my stepdad, and it was the _ugliest_ thing ever. anything scandalous you could imagine played a part, business battles,property,cheating, uhg… and _yet_ when he got cancer and could have died his galpal left him and my mother took care of him . love is sick,twisted,and bizarre. gotta love it! ---
**Author:** ![diamond](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diamond/32/859_2.png) [@diamond](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diamond)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/44 "2009-06-12T16:10:18Z")
> [@Carrie](#): > > Listen to this guy, he knows what he’s talking about. His advice is GOLD. But then again Carrie, I did all that, and much much more over several years to no avail. As Lor said earlier, loss of libido is often linked to another medical issue. What do we do if the woman won’t admit to herself that there is a problem. Then the guy starts to feel rejected, she won’t communicate, he develops trust issues, she gets defensive/angry then the whole lot falls apart. The whole thing becomes a self propogating shit storm. The communication and effort have to run both ways, if either partner can’t be bothered to make the effort, there is no point in prolonging things. It’s a partnership, as such it relies on both parties believing they have something worth holding on to. Yes, I’ve been there, that’s why I came here in the first place At the end of the day, they can’t all be fixed, sometimes you just gotta let go, despite the pain. ---
**Author:** ![TheCentaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TheCentaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TheCentaur)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/45 "2009-06-12T16:30:55Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > husband: its that time… > > wife: _sigh_ okay. lets get this overwith. > > husband: right on, its your duty! > > wife: well get on with it, i have stuff to do. > > oh so hot! > write this stuff in a book, its getting me horny ! > > LOL doesn’t it just make you feel all warm and special? I know my insensitivity and lack of understanding turns my wife into a tiger in the bed every time…😛 and this is where I wish the original poster would reply “2 sprays of TUTH worked. thanks!” ---
**Author:** ![alwayson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@alwayson](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/alwayson)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/46 "2009-06-12T16:56:08Z")
The best book I have ever read on women is “Light her Fire” by ellen kreidman. I got and maintained my first serious relationship with this book. I went from dud to stud lolll. It is even better than all those seduction books by mystery etc. ---
**Author:** ![TheCentaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TheCentaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TheCentaur)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/47 "2009-06-12T16:57:15Z")
> [@diamond](#): > > But then again Carrie, I did all that, and much much more over several years to no avail. > > At the end of the day, they can’t all be fixed, sometimes you just gotta let go, despite the pain. its better to do all you can do, and if it fails you will have no regrets. if anything, you’ve clarified your list of things you are in the next relationship. if you’ve done everything you can do, then you wont drag those issues into the next relationship. I wasn’t advocating a single sided effort, but listing things that you can do to meet your SO on another level besides physical. if they love you, they’ll match your effort. but at least you’ll be able to say you did it all, and it still didn’t work. I have great respect for people who give everything before giving up. something greater has to glue the marriage together, because if it were all just chemical reactions and stroking, we’d lose our families and spouses to any phero laced breeze that blew by them. this forum is great! never before have I seen so many people trying to set others up for success. ---
**Author:** ![Carrie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/carrie/32/1537_2.png) [@Carrie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Carrie)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/48 "2009-06-12T17:35:50Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > Carrie, > > Nothing to argue with there. > > However, both men and women need to remember that _ **rejection takes its toll** _. Very true. I guess it was the juxtaposition of phrases like **blocker sperm** , **wifely duty** , **open her legs** that just jumped out at me as being so sad, unlikely to lead anywhere good, and admitting no possibility of a groundshifting turnaround. For the OP’s sake, I wanted to redirect the conversation to something more positive, because it seems that, where he’s at, there is still hope. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/49 "2009-06-12T18:16:39Z")
General Douglas MacArthur was hell on wheels and busted the Japanese in WWII and the North Koreans in the Korean War. Part of his energies came from his wife. She would continually belittle his sexual manhood in public. Own enemies paid. A man’s most precious asset is his manhood. Continued rejection by his wife challenges that. There is a limit to the supplication a man can engage in to his wife (or any woman) and still retain a sense of his own dignity. I want to make the case that there can be too much of a good thing. Besides, women despise men who beg. As in so much of life, balance is the answer. “Blocker sperm” is a scientific term. “Wifely Duty” is part of English Common Law and Canonical Law. It is phrased differently in the Bible but the same concept applies. “Open her legs” is bluntly anatomical. I will grant that I can be cold bastard at times. ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/50 "2009-06-13T01:25:10Z")
> [@](#): > > A man’s most precious asset is his manhood . as long as he believes that, everything and anything will/can challenge that. his most precious asset is an undying spirit. assets can be debated here,too. as long as anything becomes “most important” it becomes the biggest weakness. like sex. if it becomes the most important thing/focus in a relationship, then it is exactly the first thing to suffer when issues arise. if the most important thing to me was my womanhood, and for whatever reason i could not have children, would you have me curl up and die? of course not! (because your wonderful 😉) you know that there is much more to me as a person i know this sounds so exaggerated but im just making a point. and i appreciate that you tolerate my point of view :o ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/51 "2009-06-13T01:54:56Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > Lor has a very good point of view. > > Of course, last time I got married, the wifey didn’t go for the the classical vows “sickness and in health” although I endorse them. They were something like “If it works great, if not so sorry!” > > If one’s mate is seriously sick then self-sacrifice makes sense. I’d want the same if the situation was reversed - Golden Rule and all that. That’s just. If low libido is a treatable medical problem and she doesn’t make the effort, then she’s cutting herself a special deal. But if she expects to be supported and share my labor, but freezes me, then we need to renegotiate the terms of the marriage contract. > > If it is bad attitude, then there are limits. I’ll meet my partner half way. > > PS. Gads, I sound grumpy! The problem is that _if_ there is a medical reason for the low libido in a woman it is “suck it up, babe,” from the medical community. Women are no longer allowed to have hormone replacement therapy. The powers that be have decided that it isn’t healthy for her. Never mind that osteoporosis, tissue atrophy, and a whole host of other problems arise because of that lack of treatment. Having said that, it is very _unlikely_ that a woman who was formerly active sexually, and enjoyed it, who is younger than menopause (or perimenopause) age, is suffering from a physical malady that is causing her lowered libido. More likely she is feeling disconnected, unloved, used, taken for granted, or some other emotional void. The best cure for this is not diamonds and flowers, but rather something a lot simpler and more elegant. A soft touch in passing, a flirt early in the day, promises of sexual delights later on… these kinds of things get a woman’s concentration headed in the right direction. And it is absolutely true that women are different than men. Women can’t usually be interested in sex at the drop of a “come here.” The foreplay should start hours ahead, and that in the form of those flirts, passing touches, promises I mentioned above. Libido killers are guilt trips, whining, wheedling, begging, and betrayal. Show yourself to be worthy and she will feel it too. And those of you advocating affairs… _She will know._ Is it worth it? Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/52 "2009-06-13T02:07:19Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > General Douglas MacArthur was hell on wheels and busted the Japanese in WWII and the North Koreans in the Korean War. > > Part of his energies came from his wife. She would continually belittle his sexual manhood in public. Own enemies paid. > > A man’s most precious asset is his manhood. Continued rejection by his wife challenges that. There is a limit to the supplication a man can engage in to his wife (or any woman) and still retain a sense of his own dignity. I want to make the case that there can be too much of a good thing. Besides, women despise men who beg. > > As in so much of life, balance is the answer. > > “Blocker sperm” is a scientific term. > > “Wifely Duty” is part of English Common Law and Canonical Law. It is phrased differently in the Bible but the same concept applies. > > “Open her legs” is bluntly anatomical. > > I will grant that I can be cold bastard at times. I’d never advocate belittling anyone’s manhood in public! But he was probably horrible in the sack. Jewish law states that a wife can legally divorce her husband if he fails her in her conjugal rights, because he has a duty to give her children. Afterward she is free to marry a man who will fulfill that for her. Nothing in the law says he has the same cause. Interestingly enough the law also states that a husband must satisfy (sexually) his wife on the Sabbath. Again, in the law is nothing written for him… supposedly because if he does satisfy his wife on the Sabbath, then he also is satisfied. Diane ---
**Author:** ![OoohYahhh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ooohyahhh/32/1274_2.png) [@OoohYahhh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/OoohYahhh)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/53 "2009-06-13T04:05:42Z")
> [@TheCentaur](#): > > its better to do all you can do, and if it fails you will have no regrets. if anything, you’ve clarified your list of things you are in the next relationship. > if you’ve done everything you can do, then you wont drag those issues into the next relationship. > > I wasn’t advocating a single sided effort, but listing things that you can do to meet your SO on another level besides physical. if they love you, they’ll match your effort. but at least you’ll be able to say you did it all, and it still didn’t work. I have great respect for people who give everything before giving up. > … Oooh, you’ll have regrets alright. Plenty of 'em. And you will inevitably carry them forward. The best that you can hope for is to end that relationship soon enough to be able to get past the pain and bitterness and be able to turn your regrets into postive expectations and practices. It is _extremely_ difficult to get past the sense of loss to try to turn your regrets into something constructive. Every woman in my life has benefitted by my regrets from the ones before. The best effort will inevitably be one sided. It is not the level best if the effort depends on the response of anyone else. The best effort is to stand firm until the bitter end. Listen to your head and heart. When it has gone beyond all reason, _stop!_ Beyond that, the regrets will only multiply. They will especially regret (as I do) having given all they could muster long, long after it was one sided, long after the head and heart knew it was pointless. Yet they will continue because it is the responsible, mature, commited, honorable, ‘right’ thing to do. And faced with the same situation they would probably do it again. Because it is the honorable thing to do. All of that honor doesn’t ease the pain one bit. Or the regrets. And it doesn’t mean it was really the right thing to do. But they will certainly deserve respect. ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/54 "2009-06-13T04:24:25Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > I’d never advocate belittling anyone’s manhood in public! But he was probably horrible in the sack. > > Jewish law states that a wife can legally divorce her husband if he fails her in her conjugal rights, because he has a duty to give her children. Afterward she is free to marry a man who will fulfill that for her. Nothing in the law says he has the same cause. Interestingly enough the law also states that a husband must satisfy (sexually) his wife on the Sabbath. Again, in the law is nothing written for him… supposedly because if he does satisfy his wife on the Sabbath, then he also is satisfied. > > Diane no way ! interesting. ---
**Author:** ![OoohYahhh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ooohyahhh/32/1274_2.png) [@OoohYahhh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/OoohYahhh)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/55 "2009-06-13T04:45:54Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > no way ! > > interesting. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/56 "2009-06-13T05:35:09Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > no way ! > > interesting. _**Her food, her raiment and her conjugal right shall he (the husband) not** diminish_. Exodus 23:10\*\* > [@](#): > > [Judaism 101: Kosher Sex](http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm) > > Sex is the woman’s right, not the man’s. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman’s right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife’s three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The [Talmud](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/talmud.htm) specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband’s occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the [ketubah](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/ketubah.htm) (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband’s consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to [divorce](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/divorce.htm) his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the [halakhic](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/halakhah.htm) obligation to procreate. > > Although sex is the woman’s right, she does not have absolute discretion to withhold it from her husband. A woman may not withhold sex from her husband as a form of punishment, and if she does, the husband may divorce her without paying the substantial divorce settlement provided for in the [ketubah](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/ketubah.htm). ---
**Author:** ![jankren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jankren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jankren)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/57 "2009-06-13T05:46:30Z")
The fact that biologically women dont need sex as much as men mean that monogamy is an unfair covenant for men. > [@](#): > > [Judaism 101: Kosher Sex](http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm) > > Sex is the woman’s right, not the man’s. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman’s right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife’s three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The [Talmud](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/talmud.htm) specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband’s occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the [ketubah](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/ketubah.htm) (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband’s consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to [divorce](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/divorce.htm) his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the [halakhic](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/halakhah.htm) obligation to procreate. > > Although sex is the woman’s right, she does not have absolute discretion to withhold it from her husband. A woman may not withhold sex from her husband as a form of punishment, and if she does, the husband may divorce her without paying the substantial divorce settlement provided for in the [ketubah](http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/ketubah.htm). Wow, making sex as a chore is a sure way to kill a man’s sexual drive. Ha ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/58 "2009-06-13T05:47:41Z")
> [@jankren](#): > > The fact that biologically women dont need sex as much as men mean that monogamy is an unfair covenant for men. what planet are you living on ? ---
**Author:** ![jankren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jankren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jankren)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/59 "2009-06-13T05:58:27Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > what planet are you living on ? Lol, what? Which part are you disagreeing on? The science part or the social part? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732/60 "2009-06-13T06:11:11Z")
> [@jankren](#): > > The fact that biologically women dont need sex as much as men mean that monogamy is an unfair covenant for men. Where did you get that idea? LOL > [@jankren](#): > > Wow, making sex as a chore is a sure way to kill a man’s sexual drive. Ha ha ha! Why is it always so different when the shoe is on the other foot? 🆒 Making anything a chore is a good way to kill interest. But I don’t see it that way. I think it is a responsibility and a privilege to have sex with your spouse (both partners!), and to make it as good as possible for their partner. _Selfishness_ kills a lot of relationships, whether it is in demanding or withholding. Diane [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732.md?page=2) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/very-very-very-very-low-libido/15732.md?page=4)