# vitamin-line nutrient PQQ finally available **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [February 21, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432 "2010-02-21T23:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/1 "2010-02-21T23:07:50Z")
We first discussed PQQ here a couple of years ago. This is the formerly unavailable supplement Pyrroloquinoline Quinone that is found in micro levels in chocolate, fermented soybeans, kiwi fruit. The good news is that is now, after a few extra years of testing, available on the retail market. The stuff is supposed to be very potent, not exactly a vitamin by the exact definition of vitamin, but a cellular energizer ---
**Author:** ![M\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@M\_M](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_M)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/2 "2010-02-22T00:36:31Z")
Always interested in your findings, T; and still wanting ALL of your notes on your findings on the supplementation of oxygen. šŸ˜‰ Sounds like Iā€™m begging? I could be. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![SoulCreator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/soulcreator/32/236_2.png) [@SoulCreator](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SoulCreator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/3 "2010-02-22T00:53:53Z")
So what are the benefits of PQQ supplementation? ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/4 "2010-02-22T00:57:45Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > The stuff is supposed to be very potent, not exactly a vitamin by the exact definition of vitamin, but a cellular energizer How would you compare it to the cellular energy boosting effects of L-Carnitine tacitus? ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/5 "2010-02-22T02:03:59Z")
Hard to give it a good thorough introductionā€¦ my initial impression is that this will be a really good one thoughā€¦ In very small doses I notice an amazing increase in my energy, they encapsulate it in 20 mg. gelatin capsā€¦ in my case at least it works great at 2-3 milligrams dissolved in oilā€¦ it comes as a reddish powder, so I sprinkle it in a little flax oilā€¦ my endurance is excellentā€¦ can go and go and go w/o becoming tired, bored, or losing my edgeā€¦ primo energy w/o the over-rev and jangles I would get from most energy products.. doesnā€™t interfere w/ sleep eitherā€¦ I donā€™t know what taking the full 20 mg. cap would be likeā€¦ for some it may be ok, for me, prob. not the best ideaā€¦ The only neg. I came across is that you prob. shouldnā€™t take it w/ any supplement containing copperā€¦ although that was only one report dating back to 1996 and there have been no follow through research reports claiming that such would be problematicā€¦ OTOH, it seems to be a powerful protector against mercury poisoning, heart and brain injuryā€¦ and activates cellular energyā€¦ prob. of little interest on these boards, but unfortunately it has been rumored to double the length and girth of the human penis, so youā€™ll just have to put up with that minor side effect..šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/6 "2010-02-22T02:11:47Z")
p.s. we had a good discussion of PQQ here in 2007, so you can search for thatā€¦ in the meantime Nestle was rumored to be doing extensive toxicological tests on it (because v. high in cocoa)ā€¦ I guess it had to pass muster with the safety guys before they finally let it out to the public ---
**Author:** ![M\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@M\_M](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_M)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/7 "2010-02-22T05:34:42Z")
Can you recommend any DEPENDABLE suppliers, T? ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/8 "2010-02-22T17:23:55Z")
Quality Of Life Labs sells it, Pure Encapsulations has included it with coQ10ā€¦ not to horrible, around 25 bux per bottleā€¦ since I only use a tiny amount, that is about a yearā€™s supply for meā€¦ has an amazing effect on dreamsā€¦ fwiwā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![M\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@M\_M](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_M)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/9 "2010-02-22T21:34:17Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > In very small doses I notice an amazing increase in my energy, they encapsulate it in 20 mg. gelatin capsā€¦ in my case at least it works great at 2-3 milligrams dissolved in oilā€¦ it comes as a reddish powder, so I sprinkle it in a little flax oilā€¦ > > I donā€™t know what taking the full 20 mg. cap would be likeā€¦ for some it may be ok, for me, prob. not the best ideaā€¦ If I may, whatā€™s your body weight, T? Iā€™m a firm believer that a lot of the products that hit the market today, does not consider body weight when they recommend their dosages, or itā€™s for a certain body weight. > [@tacitus](#): > > The only neg. I came across is that you prob. **shouldnā€™t take it w/ any supplement containing copper** ā€¦ although that was only one report dating back to 1996 and there have been no follow through research reports claiming that such would be problematicā€¦ Thatā€™s funny, to me, about copper ā€¦ Iā€™ve found in numerous places that copper and zinc shouldnā€™t be taken together, either, but at opposite ends of the daily intake, yet, there are lots of products that has them TOGETHER. Who really knows!? :o Shouldnā€™t take it w/any supplement containing copper, youā€™re, pretty much, saying the same thing, yes? Might as well give up the link, too. \ Thanks for sharing the knowledge/your ideas, T! ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/10 "2010-02-23T16:36:09Z")
Iā€™m around 220 pound, 6 feetā€¦ but am quite dense, I think my bones are denser than normal, maybe a touch overweightā€¦ I continue to refine this by titering it downā€¦ seems that minute quantities work better, around 500 microgramsā€¦ so for me a single 20 milligram capsule has 40 effective dosesā€¦ even at 1-2 milligrams it can be a bit muchā€¦ From my experiences with a wide range of other cognitive enhancers/nutrients, it is safe to say that people and their brains vary widely in what may be perceived as Ye Sweet Spotte, dosage wise.. As for the copper thing, the one paper that I saw referenced was almost 15 years old, I did read some advanced biochem research published after that and there was some thinking that they (the biochem guys who did the original investigation) were actually using a similar, but not identical to PQQ molecule known as Topaquinoneā€¦ which they had confused with PQQ.. Back then they believed that PQQ in the presence of the CU(II) ion could act as a carcinogen by damaging DNAā€¦ but after years of testing and scrutiny this research hasnā€™t (to my limited knowledge) been reproduced, and PQQ has been pretty closely studied before releasing it onto the marketā€¦ Since PQQ is manufactured by a large Japanese firm Mitsubishi I would (perhaps mistakenly) assume that they have the resources and interest in determining the safety of the molecule. One of the real target mega markets for state of the art nutrients isnā€™t humans, by the way, but animal feeds, because if you can tweak a feed to grow bigger animals faster you change the profit/loss equation for the industrial agriculture businessā€¦ They may have been in search of nutritional augmentation that would blast food animals into higher productivity in less timeā€¦ OTOH, I also now see Chinese biochem firms advertising PQQ and those guys worry me, esp. if they do manage to have unlisted contaminants that have this copper reactivity problemā€¦ they donā€™t have a reputation for being forthright about the full composition of their productsā€¦ and I doubt that the purchasers who pay for encapsulation and packaging/distributionā€¦ I.E. buy the raw powder in 25 kg. bags or drumsā€¦ have the testing facilities on hand, staff technicians who know how to run a mass spectrograph, etcā€¦ and third party certificates of origin/purity are _notoriously corrupt_, often forged outrightā€¦ So if they are sourcing from Mitsubishi and can prove it, theyā€™re probably OK, or if they have their own labs or a strong relationship with a US based testing lab, not just playing the game of relying on a probably bogus but sort of impressive looking certificate from who knows where, theyā€™re probably OKā€¦ As for Copper/Zincā€¦ there are many schools of thought on this one, however it gets one step more tricky, in that copper is also competitive with molybdenum (used in a few enzymes in the human body)ā€¦ So probably Zinc taken with no Calcium, Magnesium either, as zinc is more competitive with Calcium in one setting and Cu/Mo at the other end of the day.. ---
**Author:** ![M\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@M\_M](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_M)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/11 "2010-02-23T17:54:20Z")
Well, I found their site, but Iā€™m having trouble finding the product. [Quality of Life Labs](http://q-o-l.com/) > [@tacitus](#): > > As for Copper/Zincā€¦ there are many schools of thought on this one, however it gets one step more tricky, in that copper is also competitive with molybdenum (used in a few enzymes in the human body)ā€¦ > > **So probably Zinc taken with no Calcium, Magnesium either, as zinc is more competitive with Calcium in one setting and Cu/Mo at the other end of the day**.. Itā€™s amazing, the different findings on products and their components. ZMA [Bodybuilding.com - ZMA Information and Product Listing! ZMA FAQ!](http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/zma.html), a product, in which Iā€™ve grown to love, is Zinc and Magnesium based. I guess itā€™s like -mones, what works for one, may not work for others. Always a pleasure, T! šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/12 "2010-11-30T20:42:14Z")
For those of you who are late to the discussion, the benefits of PQQ are discussed by Tacitus, _et al_ in these two previous threads: > [@New vitamin PQQ and beautiful skin ?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-vitamin-pqq-and-beautiful-skin/4757/1): > > PQQ is interesting, skinwise, because it is active in the metabolism of lysine, an amino acid that is part of collagen, the skin structure protein. I have frequently noticed, when travelling in asia, that many traditional diet asiatic people had exceptionally fine, uniform, almost creamy skin texture. I wondered if this was genetic, environmental, dietary, or what ? Recently there have been stirrings in the nutritional industry about PQQ, pyrroloquinoline quinoneā€¦ which is only now barely turā€¦ > [@PQQ about to be on the market as novel vitamin](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/pqq-about-to-be-on-the-market-as-novel-vitamin/6388/1): > > (Tacitus Opinion #45,938: chocolate is high in natural PQQā€¦ chocolate ā€œaddictionā€ may be a nutrient seeking behaviorā€¦) October 31st, 2007 ā€“ Purchase, N.Y. ā€“ Hailed as a new vitamin by Nature1, VitaPQQā„¢ brand PQQ is now available from Maypro for use by vitamin and dietary supplement manufacturers. The launch of VitaPQQā„¢ is a critical milestone in a decades-long effort to commercialize Pyrroloquinoline Quinone (PQQ), a newly discovered vitamin that offers significant health benefits due to its vā€¦ PQQ is now available in 10mg capsules from the Life Extension Foundation. They donā€™t sell [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) so Iā€™m gonna assume itā€™s okay to post links. They recommend that you take PQQ with CoQ10 (preferably as ubiquinol). _Life Extension Magazine_ article about PQQ and its benefits - [Rejuvenate Your Cells by Growing New Mitochondria - Life Extension](http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/ss2010_Rejuvenate-Your-Cells-Growing-New-Mitochondria_01.htm) The product - [BioPQQ Pyrroloquinoline Quinone, 10 mg, 30 vegetarian capsules](http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01500/PQQ-Caps-with-BioPQQ.html) ---
**Author:** ![England](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/england/32/1163_2.png) [@England](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/England)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/13 "2010-11-30T21:31:07Z")
Facinating stuff. Will pass this information onto my mother as sheā€™s anti-ageing mad! But the cognitive and energy benefits of this make it quite appealing to me too. Just noted that Life Extension do international delivery šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/14 "2010-11-30T23:22:57Z")
> [@England](#): > > Facinating stuff. Will pass this information onto my mother as sheā€™s anti-ageing mad! But the cognitive and energy benefits of this make it quite appealing to me too. Just noted that Life Extension do international delivery šŸ™‚ There a very solid company too. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/15 "2011-12-07T18:42:10Z")
Finally managed to get some PQQ myselfā€¦ seems like it works great. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/16 "2011-12-07T19:31:41Z")
> [@Phoenix](#): > > Finally managed to get some PQQ myselfā€¦ seems like it works great. Whatā€™s it doing for yah? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/17 "2011-12-07T20:34:26Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Whatā€™s it doing for yah? Energy for sure, plus I lost some weight more easily than without it (itā€™s due to the improvement in mitochondria). I take the mitochondrial energizer with PQQ, and add some CoQ10. Just tried it for a few days, then I take a break and switch back to maca for some more daysā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/18 "2011-12-07T21:50:53Z")
When I first started taking it, I did notice a real burst of energy! But I donā€™t notice that anymore. I donā€™t know what would happen if I stop taking itā€¦ Havenā€™t noticed anything as far as skin quality or weight loss. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/19 "2011-12-07T23:22:59Z")
I had forgotten about this. I just went and ordered some from Life Sciences. Iā€™m excited. Finally got some tongkat Ali coming too šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432/20 "2011-12-08T18:57:29Z")
So I just got the BioPQQ from the link Warren generously shared. Been a long time member of LifeSciences too so discount helped. Warren or Pheonix, can you elaborate a little on the best way to dose? I do have CoQ10 also. Thanks [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/vitamin-line-nutrient-pqq-finally-available/36432.md?page=2)