# What do women think of negative hit ploys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [September 2, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362 "2007-09-02T02:32:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 8:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/21 "2007-09-26T08:58:40Z")
> [@tisha](#): > > Confident alpha men dont need to neg to make themselves or others perceive them as of HV. They already perceive themselves that way and because of that confidence they give off that aura. Yes… its a manufactured replica of what confident men do anyway. Blowing your nose in front of a girl (in an utterly relaxed way) is a neg - you are just showing that you’re not so affected by her beauty that you can’t behave normally around her. Better not to think so much about it, but sometimes it’s helpful to break things down. (And the idea is to differentiate yourself from her fawning ‘fans’ - so only used on a high self-esteem, very pretty girl in a high energy environment where she is very in demand. Mostly completely unnecessary). > [@](#): > > Beta males who lack confidence tend to think they need to bring people down to there level so they can feel like they are of HV and because they feel threatened by anyone they perceive to have HV. Jerk behaviour… more effective than being completely submissive but better to raise everyone up = warm alpha/dominance. > [@](#): > > In my opinion every person has value, **but no one person has more value then another**. If you value yourself others will value you as well. If they dont, screw them its a big world with alot of people in it. 😉 Its really the essence of confidence. This may be true at some level, but it isn’t an accurate description of the social world we occupy - observe how others treat celebrities /powerful people vs the homeless. > [@May](#): > > Some of the stuff in the game would work on me - but negging would not, unless as I said it was obviously teasing and funny. 🙂 So much of this stuff is just a breakdown of what has been going on for thousands of years in human interaction. I have observed sales people using such influencing tactics in deals with millions of dollars at stake and you know what - even though I am aware at some level of what is going on - they are still effective. (Just like pheros influence you, even though you are aware they are being used!) ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 9:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/22 "2007-09-26T09:01:29Z")
> [@Mia\_Culpa](#): > > it didn’t work on me on the playground either. > > incidentally, i just totalled up my pheromone wishlist: $1060.95 > > ouch. It didn’t work in primary school for me either.. I didn’t even end up talking to her (weren’t even allowed to ☹ ).. ---
**Author:** ![Mia\_Culpa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mia_culpa/32/393_2.png) [@Mia\_Culpa](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mia_Culpa)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 9:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/23 "2007-09-26T09:04:31Z")
i was “married” several times in kindergarten. yes, I was the Liz Taylor of the pre-school set. my husbands generally kissed my ass and did what I asked them to do. eh. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/24 "2007-10-12T18:31:29Z")
emotion and reason in persuasion looks like the academic researchers are beginning to catch on. in a rush so no time to relate to the topic at hand, but it should be fairly obvious… btw has anyone noticed an increase in envious oral IoIs with A314 type mixes? ‘see you tomorrow. where do you live? round the corner you bastard… I mean it’s a nice area’ from someone i just met two days ago on this course… **[ScienceDirect - Journal of Business Research : Emotion and reason in persuasion\*1: Applying the ARI model and the CASC Scale](http://tinyurl.com/ysmy9k)** Whereas practitioners in advertising and marketing clearly appreciate the importance of affect and emotion, traditional academic approaches to the analysis of persuasion tend to stress rational “central route” or “systematic” processing. However, the notion of two sorts of cognitive process—one rational, the other affective—has gained increasing support. This paper presents a view of the conceptualization and operationalization of the interaction of affect and reason based upon MacLeans’s triune theory of the brain, distinguishing reptilian, individualist and prosocial biological emotions, as well as “higher level” social, cognitive and moral emotions … tions to a stimulus may then be acquired by virtue of experience with that stimulus, even if not accompanied by a rational process such as recognition of the stimulus. In contrast to reason, affects are the first reaction to stimuli, are made without perceptual “encoding,” and are made with greater confi- dence and more quickly. Thus it is not necessary to “know” something before liking it. However, all rational cognitions are accompanied by affects despite parallel yet separate and independent systems. To quote Zajonc (1980, p. 153) on the pervasive nature of **emotions** , he says, “There are practically no social phenomena that do not implicate affect in some important way. Affect dominates social interaction and it is the major currency in which all social intercourse is transacted.” For instance, one cannot meet a person without feeling some inner attraction or revulsion. Affective reactions are thus important because we do not simply see things as they are, but instead, we provide affective interpreta- tions of them (e.g., not just a sunset, but a “beautiful” sunset). **COMPARING EMOTIONAL AND RATIONAL PERSUASION** **Emotions** can never be wrong. Understanding and the intellect can betray us and prove us wrong, but **emotions** are always true and real. There can be no doubt about the existence of feeling. This virtue has marketing applica- tions. Consumers can be wrong about their beliefs about a product, but they can have no misconception about their emotional response to a product or advertisement. We, as marketers, may mistake how they feel and consumers themselves may not always reveal their true internal state. Nevertheless, if we can generate feelings, these will be genuine and accurate and, thus, more H7976-Ch02 11/18/05 5:02 PM Page 27 **Page 4** **28** 2 EMOTION AND REASON resistant to competitive claims than a rational belief in the virtues of the product. Rational beliefs about products can be changed by competitors providing “new evidence” in the way of taste tests and the like. It will be much harder to change a consumer’s overall affective disposition to a brand. Beliefs are amenable to change; feelings are more resistant. Buck (1984) makes the same point when he distinguishes between spontaneous communication, which is nonvoluntary, nonpropositional (cannot be false), and nonsymbolic, and signals meaning via a biologically based system, and symbolic communication, which is intentional, proposi- tional, and functions on a socially shared system (such as language) between sender and receiver. What would it take to change someone’s positive feelings of liking towards a brand? A price change? Bad word of mouth from a friend? A single bad experience with the brand? Nonavailability of the brand? None of the above? It would seem, then, that **emotions** can create long-term brand loyalty, which is the goal of most marketing campaigns. Of course, rational beliefs can lead to repeated buying of the brand as well. However, when you have an emotional commitment to the brand you may also have a superior kind of brand loyalty. Aaker (1991) distinguishes between different types of brand loyalty. Contrast, for example, the car buyer who buys a Beetle because she “loves” it and the buyer who buys a Hyundai because it is cheaper. Whose loyalty could you count on in the future? **Emotions** are global. By showing photographs of facial expressions to observers, Ekman and Friesen (1975) identified six widely occurring emo- tions, usually referred to as the six basic affects: happiness, sadness, fear, anger, surprise, and disgust. Darwin’s (1872) seminal book on facial expressions established that such expressions are universal and not cul- tural. Affects are basic and common across cultures and universal in their signal systems. Thus, affects produce more predictable reactions across consumer segments than cognitive systems, which are different across cultures. … **Emotions** are fundamental. Ray and Batra (1983) state that the affec- tive is the first level of response and governs our subsequent relations with the environment. It primes and makes available the inference rules that H7976-Ch02 11/18/05 5:02 PM Page 28 **Page 5** COMPARING EMOTIONAL AND RATIONAL PERSUASION **29** favor positive appraisals, because it creates uncritical judgments of a favorable nature. Cognitive defenses are lowered by emotional treatments. Very often, we use rational arguments to justify what we really “feel” like doing. Volvo uses this in the headline of an ad urging Americans to buy the car in Europe because it is cheaper—“How to justify a European vaca- tion.” The “real” reason is the pleasure of touring Europe in a new sedan. The justification is the rationality of obtaining a lower price for the car while in Europe. **Emotions** are fast, catchy, and memorable. Emotional appeals lead to better attention getting, better processing of information, and better reten- tion in memory (Ray & Batra, 1983). Because these appeals are often (but not always) nonverbal they are also quicker to communicate. A picture speaks faster than a sentence and, once again, this type of “spontaneous” communication has an impact very different and often more complete than that of “symbolic” communication using words. **Emotions** are permanent. According to Zajonc (1980), we have little control over affects and once evoked, they are irrevocable. Affects may become separated from content and still remain. We may forget the con- tent of a book, movie, or advertisement, but not the feelings elicited by them. This is especially significant for marketing communications because affective attitudes may, thus, be less conducive to change than cognitive ones. For instance, whereas cognitive brand attitudes can be changed by merely supplying competing information of a more favorable kind (price appeals, etc.), brand attitudes created by affect may be more abiding and even irrevocable because, according to Zajonc, these are also independent of content. **Emotions** are independent of rational cognition. Affects do not depend on rational cognitions, whereas all social phenomena involve affects (Zajonc, 1980). Affective reactions may be acquired by virtue of experience with a stimulus, even if not accompanied by a rational message. However, all rational cognitions are accompanied by affects—we do not see an advertise- ment without interpreting it as a “good” or “bad” ad. Overall, emotional positioning is inherently superior to positioning your brand only on rational attributes. Your brand’s competitors can copy your rational product benefits and say that they “do it better.” However, if you have created a long-term emotional image for your brand, your com- petitors would be foolish to copy it. Think about it. If you used cowboys in a cigarette ad or babies in an automobile tires ad, who would consumers think the ad was for? You would actually be spending your ad dollars to promote Marlboro or Michelin! … Another caveat to remember is that **“image” without substance is not** **likely to work in the long run. Emotional persuasion must be backed up** **by quality products and services**. I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said that “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.” Not that emotional persuasion is the same as “fooling” people. Not at all. But, with most products, you need to satisfy the rational as well as the emotional needs of your consumers. **RESEARCH RESULTS** **1** **A Study of the Independence of Emotion and Reason** **Purpose of the Study** The subject of the independence of affect from cognition has been a controversial one (Lazarus, 1984; Zajonc, 1980). According to Zajonc, affect can be evoked prior to cognition and it can be independent of cognition. On the other hand, Lazarus has argued that affect is dependent on cognition. Consumer researchers (Anand, Holbrook, & Stephens, 1988; Tsal, 1985) have also contested the notion of the independence of affect. Others (Heath, 1990; Janiszewski, 1988) have continued to espouse the mere exposure (Moreland & Zajonc, 1977) effect through which affect is supposed to obtain its effect independent of recognition. Most studies have tested affect using generalized affect measurements such as like-dislike ratings. The purpose of this study is to test the inde- pendence of affect using qualitatively different types of affects such as prosocial feelings, based on paleocortical (limbic) parts of the brain, and **reptilian** feelings, based on subcortical areas (MacLean, 1993). Recent brain research shows that certain emotional structures in the brain receive 1 This research is reprinted with permission from the 2004 AMA Winter Educators’ Conference Proceedings, published by the American Marketing Association, Chaudhuri, Arjun, 2004, Vol. 15, 286–292. H7976-Ch02 11/18/05 5:02 PM Page 30 **Page 7** RESEARCH RESULTS **31** information independently of the neocortical structures associated with cognition (LeDoux, 1996). Thus, it is possible that different types of affect may function differently in their relationship to cognition. Buck and his colleagues (1988, 1995, 1999) have argued that **reptilian** **emotions** involve “raw” sex and aggression whereas prosocial-limbic **emotions** involve attachment, which serves as the basis for feelings such as love, pride, and pity. Buck and his colleagues have also developed the ARI (Affect, Reason, Involvement) model in which reason and affect combine in differ- ent proportions, suggesting that affect is not an undifferentiated concept and that different types of affects may have different relationships with reason or cognition. It may be that both Zajonc and Lazarus are right, depending on which type of affect is in question. Accordingly, I conducted a study of the independence of affect using both prosocial and **reptilian** feelings as dependent variables and using a task manipulation to create the effect of cognition. The two ads described by Buck et al. (1995, p. 446) were used as the stimuli in the experiments, and these two ads will be referred to as the patriotic and sexual ads in the study. The effect of gender, familiarity with the ad, and attitude to advertis- ing on prosocial and **reptilian** feelings was also studied. In addition, I exam- ined the effects of all these variables on attitude to the ad because this concept includes liking ratings that have been used in previous research on the independence of affect (Anand, Holbrook, & Stephens 1988; Zajonc & Moreland, 1977). The main research questions in the study were as follows: 1. Are prosocial and **reptilian** feelings evoked differently for (a) different types of ads and (b) the different types of task environments in which they are viewed? 2. Do certain types of ads evoke prosocial/ **reptilian** feelings under certain task environments? 3. Are prosocial ads more effective in terms of attitude to the ad (liking for the ad)? Is this effect greater in a high task condition? **Hypotheses** As discussed, Buck et al. (1995) suggest that the sexual ad used in this study should evoke **reptilian** feelings of sex, power, and other feelings associated with the **reptilian** brain, as discussed by MacLean (1973, 1990). **[EMOTION AND REASON](http://tinyurl.com/282pwc) read the whole thing** ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/25 "2007-10-13T19:42:56Z")
Far as I can tell, “negging” is not far off from being rude. However, teasing, within the context of light flirting, is expected and can be funny. If a guy is rude or crude to me out of the blue, I’ll shoot him my “eat worms and die” look (a friend of mine calls it my “Bad Dog!” look) and pretend he has ceased to exist. But if he and I are already talking and getting along and he teases me about my earrings, I’ll laugh and tease him right back. If you don’t understand the difference between rudeness and teasing, don’t attempt it. Also, I’m sure you already know, never tease anyone about a physical feature they cannot change–they may be sensitive about it. ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362/26 "2007-10-13T23:31:54Z")
> [@Kitten](#): > > If you don’t understand the difference between rudeness and teasing, don’t attempt it. Also, I’m sure you already know, never tease anyone about a physical feature they cannot change–they may be sensitive about it. I completely agree with that. The only people on this planet that I truly dislike are those who do not understand humor/complicated humor. But I do like to tease my friend about physical feature they can’t change, like being black 😃, but they’re all cool with it. IMHO, the best friends possible are those who take your insults and send one right back 😃 (in a fun way of course). [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-do-women-think-of-negative-hit-ploys/5362.md?page=1)