# What is up with this TFL / ' True Forced Loneliness ' Movement? Looks vs Personality. **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [April 23, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006 "2011-04-23T02:19:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/21 "2011-04-25T14:10:21Z")
And yet you have psycho Bill talking about “well what did you expect?” when a man murders 3 women and wounds several others. You’re extrapolating. I’m not saying that these men are dangerous…I’m saying BILL is dangerous and five kinds of crazy. And whether anyone follows his cues or not I AM convinced that he’s not so subtly issuing a “call to arms” of sorts by constantly repeating “we don’t condone killing women…but what did you expect?”. He’s trying to instigate what he hopes is a weak minded individual out there to commit an action that will bring media attention to the group and thus to his anti government ravings. ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/22 "2011-04-25T14:17:38Z")
I saw one video, I can’t recall the guys name but he was a rather large african american man with a vocabulary like Joe Peci’s. Among some of his other complaints was a rant against what he called “the peacock movement”. Aimed at guys that had taken to wearing black nail polish and outlandish garb to look like Mystery. OK first off these guys (I haven’t actually seen any) have the wrong idea about peacocking. Yes in some ways it can mean dressing like a freak, but more realistically it means dressing and presenting yourself in a manner that draws attention and conveys confidence and perhaps even a little flamboyance. This guys drops a series of F bombs and advices men to “not change”…what? so if there IS in fact a means to present yourself in a way that women might find appealing you should NOT do it? You realize this advice makes your loneliness not “forced” but chosen right? I mean if you’re standing at the bottom of a foothill and hungry, with two able legs to carry you and there’s a basket of food that’s maybe a 5 minute walk up the will…you can hardly say you’re forced to starve. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/23 "2011-04-25T15:30:10Z")
Just out of curiosity ??? Did you think writing it really really big would make it more true or make us have more empathy for this group of people ? You shouted in one of your comments that opinions are like asshole’s everyone has one. Very true even of you my friend. I have one to so your gonna get mine. Neither Rad nor Astrea are talking about every celibate man, involuntary or not. They are talking about a group of them with a certain attitude. I am empathic and I know you took those comments to heart as a reflection of you and what your going through which is why your shouting in your responses. Certain words can be hurtful even to those they are not directed at. But let me ask you… How does it serve one to complain about the hand they are dealt in life. It cant serve you. It leaves you stuck wallowing in self pity. It wont get you anywhere and it certainly wont get you laid. However if you dont want to sit and accept life the way it is for you then only you can change that but that change doesn’t come from those around you and what they think it comes from within you. As long as you keep looking at the outside the inside is lost to you. Choose… Yoda. Wallow and complain and gain my pity or if your a 5 be the best god damn 5 you can be and gain my respect. Which one brings you closer to your goal ? You dont have to use PUA or mones if you dont want. Pick the tool that fits you but dont knock the tools others use just because your not comfortable using them. I find it ironic you chose Yoda as your avatar. In all rights you can say he is ugly. He is also one of the most loved characters of star wars by both men and women. The wisest most powerful Jedi master in the galaxy and the one who represents that its not whats on the outside but what comes from within that makes you who you are. The choice has always been yours. You get to choose who you will be. Believe your ugly, believe your being forced, believe you cant and whether its the truth or not… your right. What you believe is your reality not the other way around. Good luck to you Tisha ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/24 "2011-04-25T15:35:40Z")
[quote=“RADMAN513, post:11, topic:50006”] > **[\- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPMtGziuYFEhttps:%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch?v=QcW4jvGicLshttps:%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch?v=)** > > Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Master Yoda responds: Let me make this real easy for you, true self confidence (in any aspect of your life), comes from three words, they are: PREVIOUS PERFORMANCE ACCOMPLISHMENT, which means if you know you have done it before successfully, then you know you can do it again,eg. why is Tiger Woods a confident golfer?, simple he wins golf tournaments.You cannot fake confidence, because eventually you are going to have to back up your confidence with genuine results. > **[TFL admits defeat to OT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RI7kX7apnchttps:%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch?v=)** > > IMPORTANT CLICK \*MORE\*Bill is so smart he just outsmarted himself by releasing this video Master Yoda responds: Whilst I agree with some of the views expressed by members of the TFL group, I disagree with their sometimes overly conspiratorial view on the world, and I don’t believe “The New World Order” (that’s assuming this conspiracy theory is real???) is responsible for the PUA industry/community. However, the fact that there is a PUA industry, is an admission that there is something seriously wrong/or dysfunctional with the dating scene. ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/25 "2011-04-25T15:50:17Z")
Master Yoda, is the 48 pt font really necessary? It makes this thread really difficult to read. Why don’t you instead use the “wrap quote tags around selected text” button to differentiate your responses from the posts you are responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/26 "2011-04-25T16:38:09Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Just out of curiosity ??? Did you think writing it really really big would make it more true or make us have more empathy for this group of people ? Master Yoda responds: I enlarged the text of my comments, so that it stood out, and thus could be distinguished easily from the posts I was making comments about. I have never asked for your sympathy or anybody else for that matter regarding the plight of involuntary celibate men. The point I am trying to make is this, don’t shame or insult those men, who find themselves involuntarily celibate/or challenged by dating. We don’t live in a perfect world, where everybody falls in love with someone and lives happily ever after. > [@](#): > > You shouted in one of your comments that opinions are like asshole’s everyone has one. Very true even of you my friend. I have one to so your gonna get mine. Master Yoda responds: No problem, I am all for freedom of speech and intelligent debate. > [@](#): > > Neither Rad nor Astrea are talking about every celibate man, involuntary or not. They are talking about a group of them with a certain attitude. I am empathic and I know you took those comments to heart as a reflection of you and what your going through which is why your shouting in your responses. Certain words can be hurtful even to those they are not directed at. Master Yoda responds: Fair enough, but when involuntarily celibate men are unfairly compared to an evil bastard like Adolf Hitler, then it warrants a response. > [@](#): > > But let me ask you… > > How does it serve one to complain about the hand they are dealt in life. It cant serve you. It leaves you stuck wallowing in self pity. It wont get you anywhere and it certainly wont get you laid. Master Yoda responds: I agree with you to a certain extent, complaining and wallowing self pity does not offer any solutions to involuntarily celibacy, however I have practiced all the dating advice dispensed by women, the PUA community, and non involuntarily celibate people, and it got me nowhere with women, hence my perceived bitterness,cynicism and sarcasm. But at the same time it is not healthy to suppress your feelings, and there is nothing wrong with expressing your displeasure at the way society treats involuntarily celibate men. That said, over the last 6 months I have embarked on health kick where I watch carefully what I eat, and I go the gym 7 days a week, and have lost close to 20kg (approx 45lbs), my BMI has dropped from 32 (obese) to 18.5 (healthy). > [@](#): > > However if you dont want to sit and accept life the way it is for you then only you can change that but that change doesn’t come from those around you and what they think it comes from within you. As long as you keep looking at the outside the inside is lost to you. Master Yoda responds: I am not quite sure what exactly you are say here, but I do agree you need to make changes in your life, if you want to turn things around. > [@](#): > > Choose… Yoda. Wallow and complain and gain my pity or if your a 5 be the best god damn 5 you can be and gain my respect. Which one brings you closer to your goal ? You dont have to use PUA or mones if you dont want. Pick the tool that fits you but dont knock the tools others use just because your not comfortable using them. Master Yoda responds: For your information I used to be a 1/10 on the looks scale, but with my weight loss, I might have climbed to a 4/10, but maybe I am being generous, who knows? I am extremely critical of PUA, because of the complete lack of ethics and honesty related to that industry. The PUA industry has an atrocious reputation, and for good reason. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% supportive of men wanting to improve themselves in order to be attractive to women, but PUA is not the answer with its lies and empty promises. As for pheromones, I know nothing about it, so I can’t make an informed comment here. > [@](#): > > I find it ironic you chose Yoda as your avatar. In all rights you can say he is ugly. He is also one of the most loved characters of star wars by both men and women. The wisest most powerful Jedi master in the galaxy and the one who represents that its not whats on the outside but what comes from within that makes you who you are. Master Yoda responds: I am not a science fiction fan per se, but I did enjoy Star Wars. That said I picked Master Yoda because of his wisdom, and the fact I am about as good looking as he is, hence why I am challenged by dating. In all seriousness I would like to believe that’s it what’s on the inside that counts, but real life experience has taught me that we will live in a shallow and superficial world. > [@](#): > > The choice has always been yours. You get to choose who you will be. > > Believe your ugly, believe your being forced, believe you cant and whether its the truth or not… your right. What you believe is your reality not the other way around. Master Yoda responds: It’s not matter of whether I think I am ugly or Brad Pitt (just kidding), at the end of the day, it’s women not me who decide whether they find me attractive or not, and going by life experience women do perceive me to be unattractive, and it had nothing to do with my personality or attitude. > [@](#): > > Good luck to you > > Tisha Master Yoda responds: Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Fade1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/fade1/32/1949_2.png) [@Fade1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Fade1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/27 "2011-04-25T20:52:37Z")
How bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Gslinger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/johnny_gslinger/32/748_2.png) [@Johnny\_Gslinger](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Johnny_Gslinger)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/28 "2011-04-25T21:05:29Z")
Hey Yoda, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. Vader was bad-ass and he got the babe. Bet he could get more after he suited up, just that he was too busy killing jedi and conquering the galaxy. ps. Think of mones as the force. An aura subtly changing and influencing the minds of others pps. Think of pua as jedi mind tricks, what with nlp, social engineering and the works. ppps. No padawan became a master overnight. It takes time to master the force pppps. Come over to the dark side, its fun over here ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/29 "2011-04-25T22:36:54Z")
> [@Master\_Yoda](#): > > Master Yoda responds: I am not sure whether to laugh or cry reading the absolute nonsense and drivel that has been written above. > > You are comparing involuntarily celibate to men Adolf Hitler??, are you completely off your head??, were you on drugs when you typed this?? No, idiot. I was not comparing the “involuntarily celibate” to Hitler. Read what I replied to: the methods of stirring up the malcontents. How about you **read** the posts? **Really** need the EEK! face. ---
**Author:** ![mariocisneros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@mariocisneros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mariocisneros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/30 "2011-04-25T22:36:55Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > If you put yourself on paper, attributes, qualities, skills etc and if you wouldn’t date you, why the fuck would anyone else? 🙄🙄🙄 LOL That was EPIC!!! ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/31 "2011-04-25T23:18:19Z")
> [@mariocisneros](#): > > LOL That was EPIC!!! Thanx. One of my ex’s was a nerd/geek/whatever. Some of his friends fell into this (TFL) category. Unkempt, slovenly and belligerent in single female company. These guys, with nothing to offer in the first instance except demeaning sarcasm **aimed at my gf’s; which they bitterly complained to my bf; were not responsive to their overtures!** The irony being, my closest gf had expressed interest in one of them, until he started with his bs, attacking her verbally in public . . . No help for the “special in the bad way”. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/32 "2011-04-26T00:17:08Z")
> [@Fade1](#): > > How bizarre. Master Yoda responds: Exactly what is bizarre? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/33 "2011-04-26T00:23:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_Gslinger](#): > > Hey Yoda, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. Vader was bad-ass and he got the babe. Bet he could get more after he suited up, just that he was too busy killing jedi and conquering the galaxy. > > ps. Think of mones as the force. An aura subtly changing and influencing the minds of others > > pps. Think of pua as jedi mind tricks, what with nlp, social engineering and the works. > > ppps. No padawan became a master overnight. It takes time to master the force > > pppps. Come over to the dark side, its fun over here Whilst I can’t comment on the effectiveness of Pheromones (I personally think that quality after shave/cologne like Yves Saint Laurent is more effective), PUA is a complete scam. You cannot use mind games to attract women, women are visual creatures and they pretty much make up their mind about you within the first 2 to 5 seconds of seeing you. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/34 "2011-04-26T00:46:59Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > No, idiot. I was not comparing the “involuntarily celibate” to Hitler. Read what I replied to: the methods of stirring up the malcontents. How about you **read** the posts? > > **Really** need the EEK! face. I am an idiot??, I am sorry you were comparing involuntary celibate men to Adolf Hitler and the rise of the Nazis. In the first paragraph of your post you compared the propaganda spewed out by Adolf Hitler to the messages being conveyed by members of the TFL group. You also implied that involuntarily celibate men are somehow ticking timebombs waiting to commit the next mass shooting, which is bullshit, because the vast majority of involuntarily celibate men are very passive, and accept their fate, and would never commit acts of violence against women. I am no expert on the topic, but it appears the motive for many of these mass shootings is that the perpetrators of these awful crimes were bullied/or were constantly subjected to abuse. That said, this is no justification for violence against innocent people. And on the topic of violence against women (which is totally wrong, and should be stamped out), why is it so many women are attracted to these bad boy/thug types who habitually mistreat women, yet these women keep going back to them?? The TFL community are not trying to stir up anyone, they are simply spreading awareness of the issue of male involuntarily celibacy, and many of the other problems facing society. Sure the TFL guys can be overly conspiratorial, but many of their views are spot on. So before you call me an “idiot”, go back and read some of the nonsense you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/35 "2011-04-26T00:55:05Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > Thanx. One of my ex’s was a nerd/geek/whatever. Some of his friends fell into this (TFL) category. Unkempt, slovenly and belligerent in single female company. These guys, with nothing to offer in the first instance except demeaning sarcasm **aimed at my gf’s; which they bitterly complained to my bf; were not responsive to their overtures!** > The irony being, my closest gf had expressed interest in one of them, until he started with his bs, attacking her verbally in public . . . No help for the “special in the bad way”. More shaming language, and false generalisations about involuntarily celibate men. Sure, some men inflict involuntarily celibacy upon themselves by not washing themselves,dressing poorly and behaving in an immature manner (like in the example above). However, I know of many men who have good jobs, dress well, have a great attitude, are great guys yet women won’t give these guys a chance. But then again as a woman, how would know what men have to go through with regards to dating?? (bearing in mind that the dating game is rigged in favour of women). ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/36 "2011-04-26T01:19:14Z")
> [@Master\_Yoda](#): > > But then again as a woman, how would know what men have to go through with regards to dating?? (bearing in mind that the dating game is rigged in favour of women). Rigged by whom, praytell? The Dating Faeries? ---
**Author:** ![Marihino](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/marihino/32/1286_2.png) [@Marihino](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Marihino)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/37 "2011-04-26T01:27:35Z")
> [@Master\_Yoda](#): > > (…) the vast majority of involuntarily celibate men are very passive, and accept their fate (…) They’re very passive, so nothing good will happen to them voluntarily. If you want something to change, you need to change something. Period. The only fate is “whatever you will do with your own life”. If you do nothing, that’s what it will be worth. And please, you must be kidding us with that _acceptance_. It’s bullshit about that visual thing. I’m not a particularly good looking guy. My face is average at best. Yet I’ve had sex with probably about 60 or 70 girls. Most of that happened when I was 19 to 23 (later I was in LTRs until recently), and I was kinda fat then. My teeth were bad (displaced in an accident) and I was wearing very strong glasses. One of my best friends at the uni times got almost completely bald in early twenties and on his nights out, he never came back home alone. Ten years later, he’s still like that, and he didn’t get any prettier. Just get a life, become good in something and be a positive person. That’s what turns women on. ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/38 "2011-04-26T01:54:30Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > Self proclaimed unattractive guy: Being ugly sucks, no women will ever want to out with me! > Unattractive but sensitive female: I’d go out with you. > Unattractive guy: …no **HOT** women will ever want to go out with me…shallow people suck! LOL! I know _lots_ of people, both men and women, who are not what I would consider beautiful or handsome at all (some would qualify as ugly or funny-looking by most standards), and yet they have spouses, SO’s, boyfriends, or girlfriends that they love or otherwise have relationships that make them happy. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/39 "2011-04-26T02:10:19Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > OK first off a couple of points that MAY bother or annoy some (maybe not but who knows) > > “Society” doesn’t have much to do directly with whether or not you can get a woman, it’s plain unadulterated Darwinism. Standards of beauty and attraction may change over time or vary between cultures but the social standards are guided by survival instinct. In other words, what is attractive in a given culture is attractive because that is what it takes to survive and thrive within that culture. So blame mother nature if you have a gripe. Master Yoda responds: So you agree that looks is what counts, then why do you contradict yourself when you claim PUA works, how can PUA help an ugly man become attractive? If you are going to get all scientific about what women find attractive in men, then you will know women want to pass on the best possible genes on to any potential offspring they may have, and that’s why women chase after the best looking men. > [@](#): > > Secondly…fuck those hypocrites. The population of the world is over 6 BILLION, that’s billion with a **B.** I doubt that a small handful of handsome men are fucking the female half of that number, I doubt the population could reach that number if only “attractive” people were fucking each other. Master Yoda responds: Why are the TFL guys hypocrites?, and you obviously have not heard of the 20/80 rule?, or female hypergamy where multiple women will chase after the top 10 to 20% of men in terms of looks and status. I know of many good looking men who have up to 6 girlfriends at the one time. I have also attended many singles functions where virtually all the women were chasing after the good looking guys, and were ignoring the average/ugly guys, and it had nothing to do with “game”, “confidence”, “attitude” and any other of that new age quackery put out by the PUA crowd. I agree that attractive people are not the only people mating, however if you are an average/ugly looking guy, dating becomes much harder. > [@](#): > > But here’s where the hypocrisy comes in and forgive me if I’m politically incorrect with this, but the world is chock full of unattractive women too. Women that never got asked to the prom, never got roses on valentines day etc. And I know that quite a few of these women have learned about superficiality from personal experience that if a decent guy showed an interest in them, well…his balding head, pot belly, big nose or whatever trait it is that he thinks makes him unattractive would be lost on her. Master Yoda responds: Absolute bullshit!!, the dating game is so rigged in favour of women, that even fat/or ugly women get far more attention from their opposite sex, than what average looking men do. I agree some men can be very shallow and superficial, but my personal experience, and the experience of many other men has proven that women are way more shallow and superficial than men are. > [@](#): > > See these guys that think the world is shitting on them because they’re ugly are doing is bitching because they can’t get any of the “hot” women. In the process being every bit as shallow, superficial and judgmental as the women they’re hating on. > > Self proclaimed unattractive guy: Being ugly sucks, no women will ever want to out with me! > Unattractive but sensitive female: I’d go out with you. > Unattractive guy: …no **HOT** women will ever want to go out with me…shallow people suck! Master Yoda responds: Mate, are you for real?, do you actually check what you type? The vast majority of involuntarily celibate men are not after the smoking hot 9 to 10/10 looking babe, because they are realistic and sensible enough to know their limitations. Also, even as a involuntary celibate man myself, I know I will never date a hot looking woman because of my looks, but on the other hand, I value a woman’s warmth, intelligence,femininity and trustworthiness over her looks, and to tell you the truth the better looking a woman is, the more high maintenance she will be. I actually prefer average looking women, and I never approach attractive women because they are out of my league. > [@](#): > > Thirdly, here’s the thing about PUA theory. It does require that you change yourself in a lot of ways. Change means growth, it means cultivating a personality that is attractive. Some guys say “I don’t want to change for a woman” or “I want a woman to want me for me”…excrement. They want women, but they don’t want to put the work into becoming a solid masculine attractive male. Blaming societal standards, womens shallowness, or just plain bad luck in the genetic lottery is so much easier because all of those things are outside ones realm of control. Fuckin Viccies. Master Yoda responds: Whilst I agree men should always strive to improve themselves in order to be more attractive to women, PUA theory is absolutely useless to the average/ugly male, because it fails to teach men that women mainly care about looks (sorry it’s a FACT), and instead it teaches men nonsense like “pea cocking”, the “neg’”, “having game”, and other assorted new age quackery/pop positivity. Many men have busted their arses trying to meet women, only to be met by a barrage of instant rejection. There is nothing wrong with a man changing himself for the better, however he should not change just to please a woman. REAL men don’t change for anyone. > [@](#): > > Point number four…movement my ass…not that my ass is having a movement, at least not right now, I meant it in a different context but I’m veering off here. > To get back in line, their “movement” is nothing more than a circle jerk pity party and hardly constitutes a movement at all. An actual movement has a goal, an achievable agenda to accomplish. The civil rights movement was genuine, the women’s movement was real, the gay rights movement is legit…all the above mentioned movements were undertaken by people with REAL problems and had an actual goal to accomplish besides feeling sorry for themselves in a group. Master Yoda responds: Wrong,wrong, wrong!!!, the TFL movement, crowd,community whatever you wish to call them provides moral support,comfort and understanding to those men who find themselves challenged by dating, often through no fault of their own. In one of Bill’s videos (I can’t recall the exact one), he never said for men to give up on dating, but to go out with their friends and make friends, and not to make women and dating their No1 goal in life. As for your other points, yes the civil rights movement was a just cause, the women’s (feminist movement) is a lie and a fraud, and as for gays, to be honest with you, I couldn’t care less about them. > [@](#): > > The PUA shit works, I have a friend who’s 6’5, 360 pounds, with a receding hairline and one testicle (cancer survivor) he now has a girlfriend. Not a super hot head turner but cute enough that I’d do her…and I told him so (lol he’s actually proud of the fact he’s dating a chick I consider fuckable go figure) > He went through the Style Life Challenge twice, once using Ammo, and has since picked up a few more products relating to PUA theory and is happy as hell. Master Yoda responds: No, PUA shit does not work, and I can easily prove why it doesn’t work. I know of a friend of mine who paid $3,000.00 USD to some PUA snake oil salesmen, and neither he, or any of his former PUA classmates experienced any kind of success with women, in spite of the fact they learned and practiced PUA theory until they went blue in the face. Getting into shape, dressing well is basic common sense, and you don’t need to to pay some PUA con man to tell you that. As for your friend who is a cancer survivor, I am sorry to hear he got cancer and I hope he has made a full recovery, that said your friend got lucky, most guys who are that overweight 360lbs is 163kg struggle to meet women, but I hope your friend has a successful relationship with his girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Yoda](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/master_yoda/32/888_2.png) [@Master\_Yoda](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Master_Yoda)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006/40 "2011-04-26T04:31:16Z")
> [@marihino](#): > > they’re very passive, so nothing good will happen to them voluntarily. > > If you want something to change, you need to change something. > > Period. Master Yoda responds: I agree that if you want to overcome obstacles in your life, then you need to make the necessary changes in order to overcome those obstacles. > [@](#): > > The only fate is “whatever you will do with your own life”. If you do nothing, that’s what it will be worth. And please, you must be kidding us with that _acceptance_. Master Yoda responds: You only get out of life what you put into it, generally speaking, however when it comes to attracting women, this is one aspect of your life you have no control over. I never suggested for men to give up on dating, should they find themselves challenged by dating, however there is nothing dignified in a man constantly getting rejected by women. And there is no shame if a man gives up on dating, providing he at least gave it his best shot. > [@](#): > > It’s bullshit about that visual thing. I’m not a particularly good looking guy. My face is average at best. Yet i’ve had sex with probably about 60 or 70 girls. Most of that happened when i was 19 to 23 (later i was in ltrs until recently), and i was kinda fat then. My teeth were bad (displaced in an accident) and i was wearing very strong glasses. One of my best friends at the uni times got almost completely bald in early twenties and on his nights out, he never came back home alone. Ten years later, he’s still like that, and he didn’t get any prettier. Master Yoda responds: I am sorry, but women are very visual creatures, and to deny that fact is like saying that water is not wet, and fire is not hot. Assuming your story is true, then your false modesty does not impress me, in order to have sex with between 60 to 70 women, you need to be a very good looking guy, because the vast majority of men would be lucky to have no more than 10 sexual partners in their lifetime. I am sorry but fat guys with bad teeth, and wear strong glasses don’t have 70 sexual partners over a 4 year period. I am also extremely skeptical about your bald friend who always picks up, because it doesn’t correspond with what actually does happen to young guys who go bald at an early age. From what I have seen going bald at an early age quite often can, and does have a devastating effect on the dating life on those men who are unfortunate enough to go bald at an early age. The only exception to this is if the guys is rich,famous or a biker/drug dealer, good story though, you have a lively imagination. > [@](#): > > Just get a life, become good in something and be a positive person. That’s what turns women on. Master Yoda responds: More cliched, and useless dating advice. I know many involuntary celibate men who lead interesting lives, have good jobs, are good at what they do, and have positive attitudes, and still get nothing. Let me tell you what turns women on, it’s called LOOKS, followed closely by money$$$$$. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-is-up-with-this-tfl-true-forced-loneliness-movement-looks-vs-personality/50006.md?page=3)