# When will you guys realize that LOOKS are almost all that matters!? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619 "2009-08-17T05:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/1 "2009-08-17T05:04:58Z")
A close friend of mine has been brainwashed by the PUA cult. He started this crap a year ago and he only becomes more and more obsessed with it. He is 25 years old and he has never even kissed a girl. I already know why…it is because he is ugly. He has a HUGE nose (dorsal hump, over-projected tip, too long vertically) and he is severely balding (he’s only 25 but he has a badly receded hairline and a bald spot at the vortex). On top of that he has a very long mid-face…like sarah jessica parker. At first he thought that bulking up would help him…he worked out obsessively for a year and a half and now he’s pretty damn buff…but still a virgin. Then he some PUA idiots brought him into the cult and got him to buy PUA books and other snake oil you guys push. He’s spend hundreds on this crap and spent countless hours reading all of this PUA crap…but he still cant get girls. His PUA buddies are all telling him he’s making great progress but he’s still never kissed a girl. Its funny how PUAs measure a man’s “progress” …its not by how successful with women he is..but how brainwashed he is. Thats why PUA is no different from a religious cult. How many more rejections is it gonna take for him to realize that HIS FACE is the reason he cant get girls. I try to tell him its his looks and he goes by this same “oh well theres this one ugly guy with a girlfriend” logic that all you PUAs go by. By the way that logic is flawed in so many ways. You cant just name one or two ugly dudes with girlfriends and say that looks dont matter to women. Thats like saying that east asians are no shorter than caucasians because Yao Ming is 7 foot 6. ITS CALLED AN ANOMALY! Roughly half of my friends are virgins. Out of all of my friends that are virgins ALL of them 100 PERCENT are ether overweight, ugly, balding or some combination of the three. My friends that are somewhat successful with women are average looking or better. And the few friends I have that are relatively successful with women are all fairly good looking. This is no coincidence. I wonder how long it is going to take my friend to realize that HIS LOOKS are the reason he is not getting girls. Its not his approach or “confidence” or his “game”…ITS HIS LOOKS! When women talk about the guys they like they don’t say “Oh John has so much confidence” or “Oh John makes the best approaches” ..NO THEY DON’T SAY THAT…they say “Oh John is so cute/hot” Why do you guys always go ape shit every time a guy even SUGGESTS that LOOKS play a major role in attraction? ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/2 "2009-08-17T05:26:24Z")
Well, if a girl married _me (someone who’s not into PUA stuff)_ I’m sure he can too get married/meet a girl/whatever… I’m not trying to be mean but you don’t seem like a good friend at all. I mean calling him ugly, wow. Sure you’re probably going to say that you’re looking out for him, but in a way you’re also bashing him and putting him down. Friends don’t do that, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/3 "2009-08-17T05:31:54Z")
> [@mikotorocks714](#): > > Well, if a girl married _me (someone who’s not into PUA stuff)_ I’m sure he can too get married/meet a girl/whatever… I’m not trying to be mean but you don’t seem like a good friend at all. I mean calling him ugly, wow. Sure you’re probably going to say that you’re looking out for him, but in a way you’re also bashing him and putting him down. Friends don’t do that, do they? When a friend does something stupid…I tell him he is being stupid. Its called tough love. What can I say? Im brutally honest. But man…first reply and already an ad hominem attack. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/4 "2009-08-17T05:38:39Z")
If you think I’m attacking you sure, it’s called “tough love” I’m sure you’ve heard about it. Look, all I’m saying is that I honestly believe there’s someone out there for everyone. Sure, maybe he’s not attractive enough for most girls but if he starts to groom himself, take the time to dress nice, and smell good (along with other very important grooming habits) I’m sure he’ll do OK. Yeah, maybe he won’t have that advantage of being handsome, but I do believe that there are girls out there who get off on a confident persona more so than just on looks. As mentioned, maybe he’ll just have less ladies to work with depending on the girls (and their taste.) Hell, we’ll leave it up to the girls on here, let’s see what they have to say. I’m sure the majority of them will say that as long as they’re confident and take care of their grooming habits is all that matters, if not then I rest my case. > [@Advanced](#): > > When a friend does something stupid…I tell him he is being stupid. Its called tough love. > > First reply and already an ad hominem attack. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/5 "2009-08-17T05:38:58Z")
I’ll admit when someone is ugly…I’ll admit IM ugly as shit and that’s why I cant even get the fattest ugliest women around. ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/6 "2009-08-17T05:40:38Z")
Im gonna have to partially go with Advanced here. There’s always a limit in how unattractive you can be and still have a chance to breed. But where’s you’re wrong is where you say looks are almost all that matters. Maybe at around our age yeah, but thats because most of us screwups aren’t nearly mature enough. You can still love someone even if they’re ugly. [http://www.mumbojumbodaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ugly.jpg](http://www.mumbojumbodaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ugly.jpg) > [@Advanced](#): > > I’ll admit when someone is ugly…I’ll admit IM ugly as shit and that’s why I cant even get the fattest ugliest women around. Then what give you the right to judge/bash him? You’re just as unsuccessful and you also took the time to join this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/7 "2009-08-17T05:42:22Z")
> [@mikotorocks714](#): > > If you think I’m attacking you sure, it’s called “tough love” I’m sure you’ve heard about it. Look, all I’m saying is that I honestly believe there’s someone out there for everyone. Sure, maybe he’s not attractive enough for most girls but if he starts to groom himself, take the time to dress nice, and smell good (along with other very important grooming habits) I’m sure he’ll do OK. Yeah, maybe he won’t have that advantage of being handsome, but I do believeethat there are girls out there who get off on a confident persona more so than just on looks. As mentioned, maybe he’ll just have less ladies to work with depending on the girls (and their taste.) Hell, we’ll leave it up to the girls on here, let’s see what they have to say. I’m sure the majority of them will say that as long as they’re confident and take care of their grooming habits is all that matters, if not then I rest my case. Grooming is important but if you have an ugly face it does not make a damn bit of difference…Its like giving a car thats completely smashed up new rims or something…its just pointless. Also lots of girls lie and say they dont care about looks because they dont want to look superficial. It would be like asking a liar if he is a liar… ---
**Author:** ![justaguy2116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@justaguy2116](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/justaguy2116)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/8 "2009-08-17T05:46:10Z")
> [@Advanced](#): > > Also lots of girls lie and say they dont care about looks because they dont want to look superficial. It would be like asking a liar if he is a liar… On the flip side, though, a lot of girls talk about wanting hot guys but then get with the ugliest neanderthals I’ve ever seen. Every girl would like to have a hot guy, I’m sure, but I suspect that girls and guys have drastically different measures of what makes a guy “hot.” And because things like confidence often set off _subconscious_ triggers in women’s minds, when they say “That guy is so hot,” they are sometimes actually incorporating the attraction that is triggered by subconscious things like confidence into their assertion that the guy is attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/9 "2009-08-17T05:46:24Z")
> [@Eldros](#): > > Im gonna have to partially go with Advanced here. There’s always a limit in how unattractive you can be and still have a chance to breed. But where’s you’re wrong is where you say looks are almost all that matters. Maybe at around our age yeah, but thats because most of us screwups aren’t nearly mature enough. You can still love someone even if they’re ugly. [http://www.mumbojumbodaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ugly.jpg](http://www.mumbojumbodaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ugly.jpg) > > Then what give you the right to judge/bash him? You’re just as unsuccessful and you also took the time to join this forum. I am not bashing HIM…I am bashing the PUAs that brainwashed him…that was like…the central point of this whole thread. As for saying he cant get girls because of his looks…well…Im just telling it how it is…so sue me. ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/10 "2009-08-17T05:48:08Z")
> [@Advanced](#): > > I am not bashing HIM…I am bashing the PUAs that brainwashed him…that was like…the central point of this whole thread. > > As for saying he cant get girls because of his looks…well…Im just telling it how it is…so sue me. gtfo, go outside. ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/11 "2009-08-17T05:49:12Z")
Not sure, I’ve seen some girls who weren’t originally my taste clean up pretty good and have me change my mind before. So there’s hope, I’m sure. Again, it all depends on the girl, and Eldros makes a point in a way. Younger girls tend to be more superficial, and the Disney channel doesn’t help. All the kids on these darn shows like Miley Cyrus for example don’t help with all these shows always being about the “hot guy” or pure attractive actors/actresses. > [@Advanced](#): > > Grooming is important but if you have an ugly face it does not make a damn bit of difference…Its like giving a car thats completely smashed up new rims or something…its just pointless. > > Also lots of girls lie and say they dont care about looks because they dont want to look superficial. It would be like asking a liar if he is a liar… ---
**Author:** ![pheroclone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheroclone/32/1312_2.png) [@pheroclone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroclone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/12 "2009-08-17T05:50:34Z")
> [@Advanced](#): > > A close friend of mine has been brainwashed by the PUA cult. He started this crap a year ago and he only becomes more and more obsessed with it. He is 25 years old and he has never even kissed a girl. I already know why…it is because he is ugly. He has a HUGE nose (dorsal hump, over-projected tip, too long vertically) and he is severely balding (he’s only 25 but he has a badly receded hairline and a bald spot at the vortex). On top of that he has a very long mid-face…like sarah jessica parker. > > At first he thought that bulking up would help him…he worked out obsessively for a year and a half and now he’s pretty damn buff…but still a virgin. > > Then he some PUA idiots brought him into the cult and got him to buy PUA books and other snake oil you guys push. He’s spend hundreds on this crap and spent countless hours reading all of this PUA crap…but he still cant get girls. His PUA buddies are all telling him he’s making great progress but he’s still never kissed a girl. Its funny how PUAs measure a man’s “progress” …its not by how successful with women he is..but how brainwashed he is. Thats why PUA is no different from a religious cult. > > How many more rejections is it gonna take for him to realize that HIS FACE is the reason he cant get girls. I try to tell him its his looks and he goes by this same “oh well theres this one ugly guy with a girlfriend” logic that all you PUAs go by. > > By the way that logic is flawed in so many ways. You cant just name one or two ugly dudes with girlfriends and say that looks dont matter to women. Thats like saying that east asians are no shorter than caucasians because Yao Ming is 7 foot 6. ITS CALLED AN ANOMALY! > > Roughly half of my friends are virgins. Out of all of my friends that are virgins ALL of them 100 PERCENT are ether overweight, ugly, balding or some combination of the three. My friends that are somewhat successful with women are average looking or better. And the few friends I have that are relatively successful with women are all fairly good looking. This is no coincidence. > > I wonder how long it is going to take my friend to realize that HIS LOOKS are the reason he is not getting girls. Its not his approach or “confidence” or his “game”…ITS HIS LOOKS! > > When women talk about the guys they like they don’t say “Oh John has so much confidence” or “Oh John makes the best approaches” ..NO THEY DON’T SAY THAT…they say “Oh John is so cute/hot” > > Why do you guys always go ape shit every time a guy even SUGGESTS that LOOKS play a major role in attraction? nah man you’re way off. you’re right, it isn’t a coincidence. what happens is a lot of the good-looking guys will hook up without necessarily having any “game” solely because they are good-looking. usually this will happen early in their life because good-looking people usually will have been that way their whole lives. After getting some of these “freebies,” their game will develop as, we all know, getting laid does wonders for your confidence/congruence. this doesn’t mean that being ugly doesn’t get you girls. while many “ugly” guys are virgins, there is no cause and effect relationship between being ugly and not getting girls. when girls say “john is so hot,” they aren’t talking about his looks necessarily (actually they usually aren’t) they’re talking about the whole package, mostly his personality and the way he carries himself, along with his appearance and other things. i don’t even mess with that pua stuff but ive studied alot of psychology and i know this stuff. i could actually go into huge detail but it’s not worth it. i think you need to work on being a better friend though because it sounds like this kid is trying really hard to improve himself, and by having you as a friend, telling him that looks DO matter and (basically) that he’s screwed because he’s ugly, you are not only NOT helping but you are setting him back lightyears. give him the support of a friend even if you don’t agree with his methods. you should also check out some pua stuff just so you can see the psychology behind alot of the principles. then you’ll see why you’re so wrong. clone out ---
**Author:** ![pheroclone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheroclone/32/1312_2.png) [@pheroclone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroclone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/13 "2009-08-17T05:52:40Z")
> [@mikotorocks714](#): > > If you think I’m attacking you sure, it’s called “tough love” I’m sure you’ve heard about it. HAHAHAHA thata boy mikito. made me laugh out loud hahah. thats that instant jerk at work ---
**Author:** ![Advanced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Advanced](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Advanced)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/14 "2009-08-17T05:54:44Z")
> [@Eldros](#): > > gtfo, go outside. LOL! Already with the “gtfo”…you cant handle it when someone talks about how important looks are…you want to live in fantasy land where if you simply say the magic words you get the girl. ---
**Author:** ![mikotorocks714](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mikotorocks714/32/1509_2.png) [@mikotorocks714](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mikotorocks714)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/15 "2009-08-17T06:02:21Z")
Ha, thanks! Here’s another thing to ponder about. There’s this co-worker who is claimed to be “hot” but dude, he has the most rank bad breath EVER. Like REALLY bad, even from a distance. Sure he still gets play, but OMG it’s sick so no matter how attractive a guy may be we all have our defects in the end. > [@pheroclone](#): > > HAHAHAHA thata boy mikito. made me laugh out loud hahah. thats that instant jerk at work ---
**Author:** ![pheroclone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheroclone/32/1312_2.png) [@pheroclone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheroclone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/16 "2009-08-17T06:04:21Z")
> [@Advanced](#): > > Also lots of girls lie and say they dont care about looks because they dont want to look superficial. It would be like asking a liar if he is a liar… That is absolutely true, girls do SOMETIMES say that because they don’t want to look superficial. But that’s because society/advertising/media puts the idea in our head that LOOKS are the basis on how attractive someone is. For guys, this can be as much as 90% true. Men are attracted to women based on looks primarily, as women are attracted to men based primarily on sub communications (however they don’t always know this, they might think that looks=attraction but that’s because they can’t distinguish the amount of attraction they feel towards the guys personality/sub communications/etc. from the attraction she feels from his good looks… i hope that’s not confusing, this is hard to explain in type. As I said before, many good looking men acquire these strong sub communications through dumb luck, and end up getting tons of girls… BUT THERE IS NO CAUSE-AND-EFFECT LINK. This guy knows what the f\*%$ he’s talking about vvv. Real talk. haha > [@justaguy2116](#): > > On the flip side, though, a lot of girls talk about wanting hot guys but then get with the ugliest neanderthals I’ve ever seen. Every girl would like to have a hot guy, I’m sure, but I suspect that girls and guys have drastically different measures of what makes a guy “hot.” And because things like confidence often set off _subconscious_ triggers in women’s minds, when they say “That guy is so hot,” they are sometimes actually incorporating the attraction that is triggered by subconscious things like confidence into their assertion that the guy is attractive. ---
**Author:** ![the\_devil\_himself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@the\_devil\_himself](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/the_devil_himself)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/17 "2009-08-17T06:06:04Z")
> [@Advanced](#): > > I’ll admit when someone is ugly…I’ll admit IM ugly as shit and that’s why I cant even get the fattest ugliest women around. And with an attitude like that you never will ---
**Author:** ![mk123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@mk123](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mk123)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/18 "2009-08-17T06:13:01Z")
First off, maybe I’m clueless, but what does PUA stand for? Secondly, I don’t think many people here are saying that looks don’t matter. Looks are part of the package, but only part. And if that part of the package is weaker, the other parts need to be stronger to make up for it. Another thing on the other end of the spectrum. Before I met my future-ex-wife (at the age of 20), I had ZERO luck with women. None. At all. I assumed it was because I was just simply unattractive. However, recently, I was looking at an old picture of myself from about that time and now that enough time has elapsed (I’m 34 now), I realized something - I was actually pretty good looking. I can’t say I was the sexiest stud around, but I was certainly not unattractive. But I didn’t have whatever those other qualities are. And I don’t think it was until fairly recently, when I became single for the second time that I really started to pick up some of those qualities. It wasn’t until fairly recently that I decided to admit that my marriage was dead and put myself out there so nothing has materialized yet, but I seem to be getting more potential interest now that I’m 40 pounds heavier (although I was 110 pounds heavier at one point, so I’m making progress), 14 years older and the hairline is starting to recede a bit. I guess if I’m going to be fair, I’m still not a bad looking guy, but there’s no way that you can argue that I’m better looking now than I was when I was 20. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/19 "2009-08-17T06:14:29Z")
Sure looks matter, but so do a host of other equally important things like personality, social status, lifestyle, etc. Unless you are extremely ugly, you can make up for those shortcomings with personality and lifestyle. I know several fat, hairy dentists with young beautiful wives… ---
**Author:** ![silentscope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/silentscope/32/2218_2.png) [@silentscope](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/silentscope)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619/20 "2009-08-17T06:16:51Z")
Is this post going to go on and on? All his posts are on this topic. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/when-will-you-guys-realize-that-looks-are-almost-all-that-matters/31619.md?page=2)