# Where did you "Get Game" From? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 6:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119 "2006-02-03T06:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 6:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/1 "2006-02-03T06:31:17Z")
Hey guys, As you may have heard us say before: **[Pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) + Action = Power** And lots of it (power, that is). It’s action, of course, that’s requires wisdom and knowledge to back it up. That’s why I’d like to partner with the top two or three dating & “pick up” educators, much as we’re working on partnering with the top two or three guys in the realm of general persuasion. That’s why I’m wondering – which PUAs (“Pick Up Artists”) do you really like? It’s been awhile since I’ve reviewed the material in depth, but I’m impressed with how far Erik Markovich’s material has gone (developer of “[The Mystery Method](http://affiliates.mysterymethod.com/z/28/CD84/)”) since I last looked. I understand it was mostly his material that inspired the experiences detailed in the recent book NY Times Bestselling book “The Game”. I like Ross Jeffries, too, for his wit and perceptivity. I think Ross’ material can really make you quite cunning verbally. A sharp tongued devil that can dance with words. Now Ross is someone that really uses emotional polarity to his benefit, even more so than Howard Stern. People either love or hate him, and he doesn’t suffer from it. I know he has fun with it along the way. Very mischievous. Now, I also know “David D” does a heck of a job marketing his material, but to me, it doesn’t seem as novel as the material above. Not bad at all, mind you. His material is good. I just think the other material is more powerful. Erik’s “Mystery Method”, in particular, seems much more workable and practical than the David DeAngelo stuff - almost a science of seduction. The way The Mystery Method is setup really works well with pheromones. Pheromones can act as a “catalyst” (something that speeds up a process) to shorten some of the stages he sets out. Pheromones can also easily amplify the effects you get from psychological triggers he teaches you to use. So… Anyone else surveyed the “pick up” market? What do you guys think, and what has helped you the most? ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/2 "2006-02-03T20:39:10Z")
Less is more. You wouldn’t think this first crack off the bat. I think I’ve had my best results from two things, a lot of vocal TRAINING, not listening to CDs or reading books, but working with a good teacher… even my ex-wife says she hardly recognizes me on the phone and she likes the improvement… more unexpected, instead of a deeper, gravelly voice it gave me a more youthful, fresher voice like a younger guy… a lot of guys mess up by trying to sound deep and rich and then sound like hung over oafs. I’ve heard so many “masters” with self defeating verbal tics and tonal problems, four highly regarded NLP “masters”, or self promoted as such, and you’re thinking, WHO is going to take these guys (and gals) seriously ? There will forever be a glass ceiling over their heads when it comes to whatever they’re pitching… The second thing is high level of body awareness, I do a ton of Alexander technique and associated body consciousness activities, all the time, when I’m up, down, depressed, tuned up, I keep on working the motor neurons… many, many people today have poor body/spatial/situational awareness, they’re kind of mindlessly trundling along like they’re on a conveyor belt or something, or sitting there imploded in their personal mind space, like their sphere of consciousness is about the size of a ping pong ball… the thing is that people with high level body awareness are interesting, even captivating to watch, even their simple movements are kind of poetic and absorbing… I say these two girls walking down the beach in their sexy bikinis, one was more outwardly beautiful but her posture was somewhat stiff and artificial, and the second girl wasn’t so visually excellent but she moved with an animal vitality that was such a turn on. Pretty soon I wasn’t even aware of the first girl… There is a hard to describe thing, the congruity of the body, the voice, the thought processes, the clothing that all merge into a coherent expression of someone, it is essential that everything makes sense in terms of the whole self-system.. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/3 "2006-02-03T22:24:59Z")
and another thing… there is a hang up among the players about having women as friends… as if having women friends is a demotion… this is not so… a strong sense of friendship is really important to me in becoming involved with a woman, on almost any level. The complaint is based on, maybe, not that it is a lower rated thing to have women for friends, but that many guys don’t know how to have a friendship with a woman, or their ideas about friendship in general are too narrow or limited. If your ego won’t be too freaked out by having a woman tell you things you need to hear and setting you straight about the impression you most likely will be giving other women you have a tremendous asset, much better than any How-2-Get-Pussy users manual. ---
**Author:** ![Rob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Rob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rob)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/4 "2006-02-03T22:39:49Z")
Well normally to a guy the goal is to get pussy, so being “friends” does not cut it. Its all about acting on our genes or instinct that alot of guys act like that… though being “friends” usually means their inability to turn on the woman enough for her to think of the guy as something other than a friend. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/5 "2006-02-04T04:37:27Z")
My new H-Bomb of Luv started with a 2 ml. bottle, put in about 6 big drops of A314, 3 drops of 5 mg/ml androstenone, so that should be a lethal dose of -none, about 5 drops of 2 mg/ml -dienone (a1), maybe about 5 drops of 2 mg/ml alpha-nol, about 90 mu of TAL, and about 200 mu of TAC, topped it off with a melange of fragrances from Artisan, Lutens, Christian and set forth to git down. I actually spontaneously orgasmed once while giving her a massage, a first for me, came out of nowhere, then about an hour of excellent sex, and hung out for a while and talked about her school. The TAL was an interesting choice, she came out of her shell and was all beamy and smiley, looked like a happy kid, and the TAC added a comfortable warmth to the whole thing, a nice gentle conversational flow. With THAT much NONE this should have been wired to the eyeballs, but it wasn’t. Nor was the -dienone depressing in any way. But when she came she came came came gone far away to orgasmland. My personal fragrance adornment for the evening was a combination of Creed Santal Imperial, Creed Tabarome Millisime, and L’Artisan Bois Farine… what an amazing scent combination, the Bois Farine lends a deep indescribable fullness to the mix with the ginger, amber, sandalwood and green notes dancing around on top… really set the mood for the evening, basically LETS FUCK RIGHT NOW and talk later… how romantic is that, I gotta ask you ? 😃 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![M\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@M\_M](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_M)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/6 "2006-04-02T20:02:55Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > started with a 2 ml. bottle, put in about 6 big drops of A314, 3 drops of 5 mg/ml androstenone, so that should be a lethal dose of -none, about 5 drops of 2 mg/ml -dienone (a1), maybe about 5 drops of 2 mg/ml alpha-nol, about 90 mu of TAL, and about 200 mu of TAC, topped it off with a melange of fragrances from Artisan, Lutens, Christian and set forth to git down. I actually spontaneously orgasmed once while giving her a massage, a first for me, came out of nowhere, then about an hour of excellent sex, and hung out for a while and talked about her school. The TAL was an interesting choice, she came out of her shell and was all beamy and smiley, looked like a happy kid, and the TAC added a comfortable warmth to the whole thing, a nice gentle conversational flow. With THAT much NONE this should have been wired to the eyeballs, but it wasn’t. Nor was the -dienone depressing in any way. But when she came she came came came gone far away to orgasmland. > > My personal fragrance adornment for the evening was a combination of Creed Santal Imperial, Creed Tabarome Millisime, and L’Artisan Bois Farine… what an amazing scent combination, the Bois Farine lends a deep indescribable fullness to the mix with the ginger, amber, sandalwood and green notes dancing around on top… really set the mood for the evening, basically LETS FUCK RIGHT NOW and talk later… how romantic is that, I gotta ask you ? 😃 😃 😃 OKappa, Mr. T!Have you stuck with this mix, or was it something you did in your earlier experimenting phase?90 mu of TAL and 200 mu of TAC … how did you measure it?Did you use this as daily wear or for intimate one on one settings when the time was right and you were ready?3 drops of 5 mg/ml androstenone - How and where is that sold here?More questions from another one of your RUMOR HAS IT A314 + IMPI KICKS BUTT post:I’m too old for the crazy young sex scene, so I like my gentlemanly TAC + brews. .. it has been said to me that if you want to go straight for the holy of holies use A314 + Impi … from my last experience I might make that A314+Impi+TAL … girls love that TAL, makes 'em feel all glowy and SPECIAL… and boy do girls love to feel special !Did you every try either of those; and if yes, what are your thoughts?Sorry for so many questions, and thanks! ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/7 "2006-04-03T00:29:30Z")
Personally, my game needs a lot of work, but once I find a woman who responds a certain way, it’s over. I have that part mastered, but it’s pretty narrow a niche, unfortunately. I got hat game I have by screwing up a lot, then and now; trying various things… observing my friends who could do things like call a wrong number and get laid by a model over it… reading some (I have only read one of David D’s books), and of course, let’s not forget, screwing up some more. I think A314 and IShine have kicked my game into overdrive lately. Maybe that extra confidence from having the women act the way they have been acting recently is doing it for me. ---
**Author:** ![PHERSURF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@PHERSURF](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PHERSURF)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/8 "2006-04-03T18:17:06Z")
I have totally reworked the way I deal with woman in the last 2 years. After another shocking end (at least to me) to what I thought was a good LTR, I was done. I never wanted to hear the following again, “I just don’t think of you that way”, “you’re such a great friend” (while she’s complaining about her jerk boyfriend), “it’s not you, it’s me” again (you fill in your favorite)! 😠 I already knew about Ross Jeffries, but his stuff was unnatural to use and just a bit manipulative. I soon discovered David Deangelo and ordered his ebook. I read it,and although the reasoning didn’t make sense, it fit my sarcastic humor style. I immediately ordered his advanced DVD series and all the pieces fit. From his basing it in evolutionary psychology to his emphasis on inner game, it all made too much sense. So, just to test it out, I started being cocky-funny and teasing the women at work (not quite the same as I would at a club, I don’t want any legal action), their attitude toward me has shifted. Now, anywhere I go, I interact with women the same way, making strong eye contact until they break it first, Smiling, being cocky-funny, teasing them (in a fun way) . And the best part is, even if I’m not attracted to her, my interaction almost always brings a smile to her face and I leave her in a better mood than before I talked to her. The problem many guys have with David D is that they take his cocky-funny lines and repeat them word for word, thinking that they are like some sort of magic. But the real success starts from understanding why it works in the first place and getting to the point of being able to interact that way naturally. Actually, the bigger problem is that guys think that cocky-funny itself is like some sort of magic, when David D himself says it’s just one of many tools. Actually, the real magic starts when you don’t need any tools or gimmicks at all and you create attraction just based on your natural confidence and it doesn’t matter what you say or do. I’m not there yet, but working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Cloud9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/cloud9/32/1736_2.png) [@Cloud9](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cloud9)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/9 "2006-04-03T20:17:35Z")
> [@](#): > > . it has been said to me that if you want to go straight for the holy of holies use A314 + Impi … from my last experience I might make that A314+Impi+TAL … IMPI doesn’t smell very well at all..its rather strong. All impi is: Anone, A-nol, B-nol, Arone, ETS11(secret ingredient) You can completely replicate IMPI minus the secret ingredient with products here without the stink of impi’s cover scent. ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/10 "2006-04-05T04:49:34Z")
I’ve noticed that the women I have been dealing with will spend years and years trying to get me, as long as I am slightly out of reach. As long as they can’t quite have me. But give them what they want, and bam - they don’t want it anymore. It gets more interesting when you’re dating two women and being completely honest about it. They both start trying to “outbid” one another sometimes. Competition makes people do some really interesting things. ---
**Author:** ![Cloud9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/cloud9/32/1736_2.png) [@Cloud9](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cloud9)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/11 "2006-04-05T06:16:29Z")
I hate those stupid games women like to play. ---
**Author:** ![Aurelie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/aurelie/32/1914_2.png) [@Aurelie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Aurelie)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/12 "2006-04-05T06:18:53Z")
> [@Cloud9](#): > > I hate those stupid games women like to play. Ditto for men! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cloud9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/cloud9/32/1736_2.png) [@Cloud9](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cloud9)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/13 "2006-04-05T06:20:53Z")
The younger the women the worse…and the younger ones generally go for the bad boys that play games…I hate that crap. I’ve about just said to myself no more women below 22. Seems they don’t outgrow it until they experience a real asshole in a real relationship and see what it’s really like to be treated that way day in and out. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/14 "2006-04-05T06:44:40Z")
it is also called “rapport” NLP talks about rapport skills… these are behavioral tools for getting on and off the wavelengths of other people… with NLP tricks in my back pocket, I would put on a load of high connection -mones (the ones that trigger rapport-ness) and interact with anyone who came along… if and when there was a good sense of personal connection, I would use other NLP skills to “take a gestalt snapshot” of myself, what was my physiology ? How was I energizing my interaction with them ? What was my general attitude ? What “belief system” was I having at that moment ? You know, I’m normally a low rapport level person… have been accused (fairly and accurately too) of being sarcastic, standoffish, judgmental, hard to talk to… and basically don’t like a lot of people. My bad. Didn’t help my social experiences too much, plus I get bored extremely easily… The result of my great natural non-charm was that I had to come up with social tricks where I could learn what socially skillful people did… and mones helped substantially at that point of the learning curve because they gave me learning moments where I could gain some insight into social ability. I had to do important pieces of belief change work too… I previously believed that I was being “real” and other people were being phony… well, yes, often they were, but my “realness” wasn’t much better as it was often interpreted as rudeness or abrasiveness and I placed an outsized value on “realness”… how crude of me… once I had reframed “being fake” as either 1. really being fake, which was just as bad as being obnoxiously unfake or 2. being socially skillful which involved being highly empathetic and observant of subtle cues and behaviors in other people, then I could 3. believe that it was OK to trade in some of my realness for some empathy, and not lose any man points doing so… This isn’t limited to male psychology either… I know some extremely attractive women, one stunningly beautiful, whip smart readhead who will be sweet as honey 99% of the time and say the nastiest cutting remarks 1% of the time… and the reason they cut so deep is her mind is so sharp and they are dead on observations of her (often former) boyfriend’s weak points… now if she could study her own beliefs about why she feels the need to do this, what she believes it accomplishes, maybe she doesn’t want to be taken for granted, maybe she is testing the fragility of egos, maybe she doesn’t want the relationship to be too comfortable and mushy mush… there might be other ways she could use that critical perception in far more productive suggestions, communications… but she has no one to teach her at this point, so she goes around leaving guys in awe of her then blowing their boats out of the water… ---
**Author:** ![PHERSURF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@PHERSURF](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PHERSURF)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/15 "2006-04-05T18:14:03Z")
Rapport is important only after you already have created attraction! If you try to create rapport before you have attraction, you come off looking like you’re seeking approval. “You like movies, gee, I like movies too!” or “you like to eat food, I like to eat too”. Men start to think that once a woman sees how much you have in common, logically she’ll become attracted to them. During the early part of an interaction with a woman, I’ll actually try to break rapport. Not in an asshole kind of way, but in a humorous way. I’ll say things like, “You like that movie (or book, restaurant, TV show)?! Man you have questionable taste.” Or if she says something like, “I hate it when guys do “x” (whatever “x” is)”, I’ll say, “Too bad, I do that all the time”. I’ll break rapport using body language also. I won’t face her directly for quite a while while talking to her. I’ll keep my body faced away at an angle and turn my head toward her. She’ll turn toward me first, then I’ll slowly turn to face her. This is so different than what attractive women are used to hearing, most guys supplicate around attractive women. I’m subcommunicating that I’m not needy, I don’t need her approval, I’m not impressed with her beauty and I’m willing to walk away. ---
**Author:** ![Cloud9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/cloud9/32/1736_2.png) [@Cloud9](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cloud9)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/16 "2006-04-05T18:18:24Z")
Very nice Phersurf…I just find it so hard to break rapport like that or seem disinterested at times when the woman is so hot/beautiful 9s and 10s. Thats my weak point. Other women I don’t have that a hard time acting like that. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/17 "2006-04-05T21:09:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll actually try to break rapport. Not in an asshole kind of way, but in a humorous way. I’ll say things like, “You like that movie (or book, restaurant, TV show)?! Man you have questionable taste.” Or if she says something like, “I hate it when guys do “x” (whatever “x” is)”, I’ll say, “Too bad, I do that all the time”. there is a very intertesting, albeit technical difference between polar responses and orthogonal responses… a polar response is bsically x versus not x, you say hi I say lo… an orthagonal response (which you will not always use, thanks to its’ greater mental complexity) neither agrees nor disagrees… you could chunk down and ask “so what things about that movie made it so great” ? So then she has to go into her memory of the movie and ask herself more detailed questions about the structure of the movie… then you could be _really tricky,_ while she is in fine detail mode, and ask her, “so what are the best things to do with your free time”… is she’s still in playback mode, she’ll give you a specific description of what she thinks great activities are… might be interesting, might not be… because no amount of wordplay will make somebody magically become the right person… anyway, so she says she likes to cast spells in her basement and make men her slaves, so then you could pop a polarity and say, “oh that totally sucks” cause then you’ve polarized not just to any old thing, but her favorite thing… and if she’s game she’ll say “WHY does THAT suck” ? Better have a good answer !😮 ---
**Author:** ![PHERSURF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@PHERSURF](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PHERSURF)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/18 "2006-04-05T23:46:12Z")
tacitus That’s awsome! I’m going to try that. ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/19 "2006-04-06T03:11:23Z")
I think the psychology of women, and interacting with them as an interested male, is among the most fascinating subjects there is. ---
**Author:** ![PHERSURF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@PHERSURF](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PHERSURF)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119/20 "2006-04-11T16:57:58Z")
Here’s a gret article written by a guy named Carlos Xuma on the difference between beig “a natural” and a guy that has to practice techniques. Practical vs. Classical There’s this ongoing debate in the community over the use of ‘strategies’ or ‘techniques’ with women. One corner holds that to do anything INTENTIONAL (i.e. display higher value, neg-hit, C&F, whatever) means that you’re just not doing it right. They feel you need to come from high self-esteem right off the starting blocks. To use techniques means that you’re manipulating and coming from the wrong frame. But if the “natural” does these things (DHV, neg-hits, teasing, C&F) then it’s okay, after all, he’s just doing it … uh… naturally. Hmm. In the other corner is the belief that we must HAVE the techniques to learn. We gotta have all the cool openers, and cold reading skills, and cube games, and kino gambits. The more techniques we use, the more we can get the women we want. I’ll fake it 'til I make it, the Eager Learner says. But we also know that without that grounding of self-confidence and self-image, these techniques lose their effectiveness, their sizzle. In the Martial Arts, there’s the principle of “Classical” vs. “Practical.” Allow me to explain: In “Classical,” you do the forms, the Katas, and all your techniques by-the-book. Very little consideration is given for “real world” or “Street fighting.” You simply do the techniques precisely, even if they don’t make much practical sense. (This is one of the problems Bruce Lee had reconciling all the various arts and what sent him looking for his Tao of Jeet Kune Do.) And, on the other side, “Practical,” where you throw formality to the wind and do whatever works. You modify the technique to fit the situation You use whatever makes sense for that situation, even if it defies the rules of the Martial Arts. I practice an art that balances these two mindsets. You learn the ‘classical’ so that you have good form and technique. Then you learn the practical (sparring) to apply it. BOTH are necessary. I had all kinds of ego-boys come into my studio and tell me that forms and Katas are useless because they aren’t “real” fighting. They are missing the point that without basics and disciplined principles, you’re just going to fall back on poorly developed responses. Sound familiar? The truth is, whether we’re talking about Classical vs. Practical, or Inner Game vs. Outer Game, or Techniques vs. Natural, we need BOTH. Walk up to any newbie in this field who’s just trying to hold on by his fingertips, and tell him “Sorry, you shouldn’t be doing this until your self-esteem is higher. When you’re in that mindset, you’ll be more successful.” Yeah. Right. Thanks, dude. The Eager Learner needs techniques to bridge the gap from wherever he is to wherever he’s going. From X self-confidence to X+20 self-confidence. It’s easy for some of us to just look down from above and proclaim, “When you have OUR frame, you’ll feel the inner game, too! Until then, you are a Bad Man for trying to come from where we do.” (Imagine that spoken with lots of echo and a deep voice like James Earl Jones…) As Cliff said so well, that’s a great concept, but it doesn’t do anyone ANY good because there’s nothing to USE. Great essay, but useless in practice. Instead, start talking more about how to ACHIEVE this state, and now we’ve got something applicable. Otherwise, we’ve got a chicken-and-the-egg situation. I need to use the techniques to build my confidence, but I can’t use the techniques right until I GET the confidence. Ugh. Me Brain Hurrrrrrt. Throw a bunch of tools at the feet of some would-be carpenter and he’ll be making crappy wood projects for quite some time. Make him read a dozen books on the subject and “imagine” the belief system of a master wood worker and he’ll STILL be making crappy wood projects for quite some time. Give him those same tools AND some knowledge and understanding of what each is for and why it works (yes, the same tools the master carpenters use), and now he has a roadmap AND a compass to get where he wants to go. (Excuse my mixed metaphor.) Pretty soon, those wood projects he’s made aren’t going to suck as bad. He practices, he gets better, his confidence rises. He starts becoming “natural.” Let’s not fall into thinking in black & whites, absolutes. The mature mind thinks in grays, just like the gray matter that conceived the thoughts. Balance in all things. Learn to live in the uncomfortable world of “no absolutes.” Human interaction is an organic entity, unpredictable. You need places to steady your boat. One of the theories I teach is called “Pendulum theory.” Simply stated, it means that all behaviors must go through extreme fluctuations before settling into equilibrium. Pickup and at-traction is no different. On one side is “fake it”; on the other is arrogance. In between is relaxed confidence. On one side is all technique; on the other is “be yourself”. In between is your (eventual) natural style. A guy’s gotta learn what the technique is, what it does, and how it works. He uses it and gets a little success, and his confidence goes up. Now, all of a sudden, he FEELS the difference. Maybe he uses a hundred different little techniques. Great. Eventually, he will get the confidence that removes his dependency from having to DHV, neg-hit, or any other of our useful techniques for getting the right mindset and Frame. The harsh reality is that confidence CANNOT be obtained in a vacuum. It is not a state of BEING as much as it is a state of DOING. Confidence is demonstrated through ACTION. And it is also BUILT through ACTION. As long as the Eager Learner or would-be Don Juan comes from a place of Alpha Man Power - Honor, Strength, Courage, Values - then I say he can use all the damn techniques he likes. Party on, Wayne. But remember that the pendulum will - MUST - come to rest somewhere in the gray area of balance and equilibrium. Without balance, there is no ‘Game,’ and no lasting success. It’s one of the unwritten universal laws. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-did-you-get-game-from/119.md?page=2)