# Which Book is Better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [May 4, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480 "2007-05-04T02:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/21 "2007-05-06T18:19:15Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Sheeeeesssh… you won’t develop behavioral flexibilty and behavioral (as well as perceptual) mastery from reading books… they MAY give you a collection of sort-of-useful ideas… anything that expands you range, especially storytelling skills, acting/behavioral skills, perception-awareness skills, will make you more interesting to other people… ideally, a good skill set should be just as useful in any life context, work… dating… negotiating… education… a test of the quality of a personal skill is how well it can **generalize** into other areas of life… 😉 In that aspect the same can be said about Mind Machines and Lloyd Glauberman HPP. We both use them in our journey’s and yes to some degree unless we apply (keyword) our learnings nothing will change. Knowledge is gained through the transmittal of information from one person to another, but again, the key element is the application of that newly possessed knowledge. Textbooks are vital to our cognitive understanding and hence are used in every level of educational development cycle. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/22 "2007-05-06T19:28:55Z")
Calculus definitely better transmitted with books… Behaviors have to be behaved… even languages sound differrent to the ear than they do as written… like languages, local styles are idiomatic… in New York the big obsession is time, do I have time for this ?, is this going to take time I need for something else ? Everything is contantly weighed against its time cost… Pay For Sex flourishes in New York because even causal hook ups are too time consuming, you want to be in and out and over with in 2 hours, maximum… and you go some other place, like the Midwest, and there’s a whole different set of baggage… each place has its rules, its flavors, like the girls in Barcelona are hot, boy… mmmmmm… and they have their whole family system, community, internal politics of Catalonians versus Others… in London they’ll drink you under the table, one aquaintance of mine scores like no tomorrow in Tokyo (he’s an anglo) but doesn’t do squat in NYC… I had a huge thing for Venezuelans for a while… hottest women on Earth… couldn’t even look twice at gringas after that, just ruined me… typical anglo girl sort of emotionally flat by comparison, and I still had to keep my antennae up for green card fishing… I still remember this blazing russkie chick named Elena, who wasn’t this other blazing russkie chick named Elana… Elena was hunting for a green card, Elana just wanted to crush my pelvis in the best way… I frankly got real tired of the standard urban “how am I going to score a primo dinner off this guy, minimum” schtick or bla bla bla, so the gringas got put on their shelf and the world of possibilities opened up… ---
**Author:** ![bronzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@bronzie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bronzie)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/23 "2007-05-06T22:24:21Z")
tacitus, what language are you using? or should i say dialect? im curious… i like it ---
**Author:** ![Oceanborn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/oceanborn/32/1229_2.png) [@Oceanborn](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Oceanborn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/24 "2007-05-07T00:32:19Z")
> [@steveo](#): > > Exactly my point! > > But OTOH you can say any story a person uses, mine are all true, are thus routines. I have traveled all over the world and lived in many different countries, so by me telling them to DHV spikes couldn’t that be considered a routine? Routines are not a bad thing: they get you to work in the morning, keep you safe, keep you organized. > > I put my seat belt on every time I get into a car… It’s a routine and I consider myself more precious than anyone else, so by your definition that is a bad thing. > > So I believe what you are saying is your routines are genuine and not made up, but all the same a routine. > > New PUA need some form of basis to measure their level of success, thus the canned routines to help them along the way. If we didn’t have measurements how would you know if you are on the right path? “To win the game, is to leave it.” - Neil Strauss ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/25 "2007-05-07T01:21:38Z")
> [@Oceanborn](#): > > “To win the game, is to leave it.” - Neil Strauss That’s why he’s immersed himself deeper into it than any other PUA. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/26 "2007-05-07T01:43:24Z")
That was almost like a 60s stream of consciousness prose. Groovy, rail against the system and stick it to da man! > [@tacitus](#): > > Calculus definitely better transmitted with books… Behaviors have to be behaved… even languages sound differrent to the ear than they do as written… like languages, local styles are idiomatic… in New York the big obsession is time, do I have time for this ?, is this going to take time I need for something else ? Everything is contantly weighed against its time cost… Pay For Sex flourishes in New York because even causal hook ups are too time consuming, you want to be in and out and over with in 2 hours, maximum… and you go some other place, like the Midwest, and there’s a whole different set of baggage… each place has its rules, its flavors, like the girls in Barcelona are hot, boy… mmmmmm… and they have their whole family system, community, internal politics of Catalonians versus Others… in London they’ll drink you under the table, one aquaintance of mine scores like no tomorrow in Tokyo (he’s an anglo) but doesn’t do squat in NYC… I had a huge thing for Venezuelans for a while… hottest women on Earth… couldn’t even look twice at gringas after that, just ruined me… typical anglo girl sort of emotionally flat by comparison, and I still had to keep my antennae up for green card fishing… I still remember this blazing russkie chick named Elena, who wasn’t this other blazing russkie chick named Elana… Elena was hunting for a green card, Elana just wanted to crush my pelvis in the best way… > I frankly got real tired of the standard urban “how am I going to score a primo dinner off this guy, minimum” schtick or bla bla bla, so the gringas got put on their shelf and the world of possibilities opened up… ---
**Author:** ![Thorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Thorick](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Thorick)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/27 "2007-05-07T23:26:10Z")
> [@Oceanborn](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong but I figured you want to meet, socialize and date many women so you can find this one special girl? > > Then I recommend _How to meet and connect with women_ by Wanye Elise (a.k.a. Juggler) > > And also _Doc Love._ He specializes in long term relationship kinda things. I checked out these books. I think I’ll try them out. They look promising. Thanks Man ---
**Author:** ![alpha\_wolf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/alpha_wolf/32/1800_2.png) [@alpha\_wolf](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/alpha_wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/28 "2007-05-08T00:27:06Z")
> [@Thorick](#): > > I checked out these books. I think I’ll try them out. They look promising. Thanks Man Ocean are you male/female? I think, given your beliefs and life goals, Juggler’s methodology could vibe well. The Game is a far better read than MM. Keep in mind MM on Amazon has been watered down from its original version for mass consumption rather than niche market/users. Maybe we’ll see a Christian PUA one of these days lol ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/29 "2007-05-08T01:54:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe we’ll see a Christian PUA one of these days lol Actually a Christian PUA of sorts is taught at Christian training centers and colleges. They’re called evangelists, bringers of light, missionaries, etc. I’m sure many of their highly effective and proven techniques can be adapted to entice the great unwashed, bring 'em in the fold, know them in a Biblical fashion and “be fruitful and multiply” so to speak. If you tread that path, make a point of avoiding thunder storms… ---
**Author:** ![Oceanborn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/oceanborn/32/1229_2.png) [@Oceanborn](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Oceanborn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/30 "2007-05-08T02:01:03Z")
> [@alpha\_wolf](#): > > Ocean are you male/female? Isn’t the sign on the right of my name obvious? > [@alpha\_wolf](#): > > Maybe we’ll see a Christian PUA one of these days lol Christians are already using PUA tactics now to recruit. So are the Scientologists. So are the insurance salesmen… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![REDFACE](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/redface/32/577_2.png) [@REDFACE](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/REDFACE)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 6:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/31 "2007-05-08T06:49:08Z")
_The Game_ is better ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/32 "2007-05-08T14:53:23Z")
> [@REDFACE](#): > > _The Game_ is better Redface, please qualify your statement. The Game is better than what? The game is a highly embelished story about a guy that dives into the PUA community. TMM is a textbook, that taught The Games creator, how to use the methods he wites about. The Game is a story. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/33 "2007-05-08T15:24:12Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > Actually a Christian PUA of sorts is taught at Christian training centers and colleges. They’re called evangelists, bringers of light, missionaries, etc. I’m sure many of their highly effective and proven techniques can be adapted to entice the great unwashed, bring 'em in the fold, know them in a Biblical fashion and “be fruitful and multiply” so to speak. If you tread that path, make a point of avoiding thunder storms… I recollect a great vignette from “The Grapes of Wrath” where the preacher is talking about how the women get hot in the prayer meetings and he seduces them. I found it quite amusing as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Thorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Thorick](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Thorick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/34 "2007-05-08T16:08:05Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > I recollect a great vignette from “The Grapes of Wrath” where the preacher is talking about how the women get hot in the prayer meetings and he seduces them. I found it quite amusing as a kid. That is funny. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/35 "2007-05-08T19:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I recollect a great vignette from “The Grapes of Wrath” where the preacher is talking about how the women get hot in the prayer meetings and he seduces them. I found it quite amusing as a kid. That’s not too far from the truth. As I recall my old church strongly discouraged one-on-one male/female prayer because of the, ah, compromising position some of the devout were found in. Prayer creates a certain intimacy between men and women, so they recommended coed prayer only in larger groups. Women tend to be emotional during prayer and often cry afterwards and during. Of course you hug them and well, one thing leads to another. I recall the preacherman frequently called those involved with sexual sin to the front for special healing prayer. Seems the same ones were on their knees week after week. _Note to self_ Attend more prayer meetings… ---
**Author:** ![REDFACE](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/redface/32/577_2.png) [@REDFACE](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/REDFACE)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/36 "2007-05-08T19:36:48Z")
> [@steveo](#): > > Redface, please qualify your statement. > > The Game is better than what? The game is a highly embelished story about a guy that dives into the PUA community. TMM is a textbook, that taught The Games creator, how to use the methods he wites about. The Game is a story. I think _The Game_ is better for Thorick because it encompasses more than _TMM_. It follows one guy’s unexpected journey into pickup and doesn’t directly attempt to take John Doe from sex-deprived chump to natural with the ladies, bedding them with seven hours of work. It presents ideas from a diversified collection of people that speak to more than just pickup, each expressing ideas on pickup, social environments, long term relationships, and life in general. In the same way that famous novelists have conveyed important lessons through literature, I feel that Strauss tries to do same thing, without abandoning the pickup theme, and staying hip and entertaining. I could see myself re-reading _The Game_ 50 years from now, unlike _TMM_. ---
**Author:** ![Godhand](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/godhand/32/2378_2.png) [@Godhand](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Godhand)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/37 "2007-05-08T20:42:06Z")
> [@Thorick](#): > > I want to buy a book about increasing game. There is [Amazon.ca: The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists: Books: Neil Strauss](http://www.amazon.ca/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-1918309-2557931?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178246061&sr=8-1) and then there is also [Amazon.ca: The Mystery Method : The Foolproof Way to Get Any Woman You Want Into Bed: Books: Neil Strauss,Mystery,Chris Odom](http://www.amazon.ca/Mystery-Method-Foolproof-Woman-Want/dp/0312360118/ref=pd_sim_b_4/701-1918309-2557931?ie=UTF8&qid=1178246061&sr=8-1) > I was wondering which book gave the best information. I hear many people like the game, but that the mystery method was more step by step. I would rather get The Game, but I want to make sure it will have all the info that The Mystery Method will have in it. Also if this may help, I’m not into getting girls to have sex with me. I’m a religious dude who waits for marriage, so if all these books are about getting girls into bed with you as the mystery method book title says, please tell me so I don’t waste my money. If they still have great info that will help me hook up with a girl, let me know that also. Thanks alot guys. The Mystery method book that you are referring to is a condensed version of the Venusian Arts Handbook. I would buy the Venusian Arts Handbook from [www.themysterymethod.com](http://www.themysterymethod.com) for $68 instead of shelling out $16 for the gutted book store version. The Game is a very entertaining read and beginners can learn a little from it, but it will not make you into a pick-up master. If I were you, I’d go with the Venusian Arts Handbook first. But if you’re a guy that waits until marraige to have sex, then the whole thing is academic… ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/38 "2007-05-11T01:52:48Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Sheeeeesssh… you won’t develop behavioral flexibilty and behavioral (as well as perceptual) mastery from reading books… they MAY give you a collection of sort-of-useful ideas… anything that expands you range, especially storytelling skills, acting/behavioral skills, perception-awareness skills, will make you more interesting to other people… ideally, a good skill set should be just as useful in any life context, work… dating… negotiating… education… a test of the quality of a personal skill is how well it can **generalize** into other areas of life… 😉 storytelling… now how does one go about developing oneself in this area? the late idries shah used to have a circle that explored and developed middle eastern oral storytelling traditions, but i’m not aware of anyone that has taken on this work since he passed away. I found this bibliography, which might be a place to start… [Storytelling Bibliography](http://www.storydynamics.com/Articles/Bibliographies/doug_bibl.html) ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/39 "2007-05-11T02:00:12Z")
> [@Thorick](#): > > I want to buy a book about increasing game. There is [Amazon.ca: The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists: Books: Neil Strauss](http://www.amazon.ca/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-1918309-2557931?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178246061&sr=8-1) and then there is also [Amazon.ca: The Mystery Method : The Foolproof Way to Get Any Woman You Want Into Bed: Books: Neil Strauss,Mystery,Chris Odom](http://www.amazon.ca/Mystery-Method-Foolproof-Woman-Want/dp/0312360118/ref=pd_sim_b_4/701-1918309-2557931?ie=UTF8&qid=1178246061&sr=8-1) > I was wondering which book gave the best information. I hear many people like the game, but that the mystery method was more step by step. I would rather get The Game, but I want to make sure it will have all the info that The Mystery Method will have in it. Also if this may help, I’m not into getting girls to have sex with me. I’m a religious dude who waits for marriage, so if all these books are about getting girls into bed with you as the mystery method book title says, please tell me so I don’t waste my money. If they still have great info that will help me hook up with a girl, let me know that also. Thanks alot guys. If you have time, I would consider reading the archives at [fastseduction.com](http://fastseduction.com) - in particular the collected posts of Mystery, Tyler Durden and Lovedrop. Mehow is also q interesting, particularly if your style is less showbizzy than Mystery’s. See [mehow.tv](http://mehow.tv) and take a look at the ebook of his collected posts. ---
**Author:** ![mesmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@mesmer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mesmer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480/40 "2007-05-11T05:36:29Z")
I have been reading those archives and it has most of the information you need for free. The thing that strikes me is that every one agrees that it helps to be funny but they don’t teach you more than a hand full of old pickup lines. A book I read a while ago is: [Step By Step to Stand-Up Comedy](http://www.stand-upcomedy.com/book.htm). [http://www.stand-upcomedy.com/book.htm](http://www.stand-upcomedy.com/book.htm) It teaches joke structure, and writing. If you practice enough, you can create jokes on the fly, or just sit down and write origional opening lines. A book I just recently finished is: [The Deffinitive Book Of Body Language](http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Book-Body-Language/dp/0553804723/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7655312-1188033?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178860917&sr=1-1). This is real good. Women are something like 10 times better at reading body language, this will level the playing field. Most PUA techniques tell you steps to create rapport, but she’s not going to tell you if you are doing a good job. Her body language will send the message. The next Book I have planned is: [The Power of Business Rapport: Use NLP Technology to Make More Money, Sell Yourself and Your Product, and Move Ahead in Business](http://www.amazon.com/Power-Business-Rapport-Technology-Yourself/dp/0060921439/ref=sr_1_12/002-7655312-1188033?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178860573&sr=1-12). This is the only NLP book my local library has, I’m going to read it before I consider any of the expensive NLP cd’s or dvd’s. I’m mostly interested in state control, mirroring and making personal change, NLP doesn’t have to be used to “hypnotize” women. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/which-book-is-better/3480.md?page=3)