# Who and what is a JERK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979 "2011-04-21T04:46:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pat83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71e660/32.png) [@Pat83](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pat83)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/1 "2011-04-21T04:46:05Z")
A female friend recently told me she have a thing for jerks. She specifically said Luke Perry / Dylan McKay on Beverly Hills, 90210 (we were talking about the show). The kind of guys that would not return a girl’s call and wouldn’t even bother with an explanation. I said I don’t understand why I should pretend to not care about someone when clearly I cared for that person. Why I have to wait 3 days to call instead of the next day. She said she doesn’t know but that’s how it works. After I while I can let my true feeling out and call more frequently but no set rule. I told her I don’t want to tell “the one” that I pretended I have something to do and not picking her up from work/school/doctors/etc. The same topic came up today when another friend was saying how she know a guy in college that’s hot n cold. He would date a girl, stop talking for 6 months and come back. The 1st girl commented it is a good thing she doesn’t know that guy otherwise she might be with him. (They went to the same college) I asked her why she like jerks, the Electra complex? and she said it is because her father is a controlling jerk and yeah, I am might right, it might be the Electra complex. What’s a jerk and how can I be one or pretend to be one? It doesn’t seem fair that good girls want jerks and bad girls want jerks pretending to be nice guy. I am not “nice” nice and wouldn’t let people walk all over me but I also don’t want to lie / pretend constantly. ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/2 "2011-04-21T12:50:19Z")
SOME women like the Jerk type of guy because in a lot of ways there is a sincerity and authenticity that comes with it. I’m glad you mention lieing and pretending as this is as much of what turns women off about “the nice guy” as the notion of weakness. I’ve mentioned in other topics that I’ve known and coached some self proclaimed nice guys. Here’s the thing though, they’re not genuine nice guys. They do “nice” things for the women they’re attracted to. Favors (helping carry their furniture when the move into a new apartment), buy them gifts for no reason, shower them with compliments, give up their personal time to be the shoulder they cry on etc. Yet these guys will complain to me about how women choose jerks over nice guys. This tells me that their nice guy actions and behavior are not coming from a place of authenticity. They aren’t doing these things just because they want to be nice, they have strings attached that even they don’t realize. Usually the prettier the girl is, the “nicer” the guy becomes. You see in many ways the nice guy is the one being fake and the women sense this. They know he is only being nice because he wants her, and that he’s subtly trying to manipulate her into being with him out of a sense of obligation. He lacks the confidence that a woman can like him for himself, so he tries to convince her with favors and gifts that she will be rewarded with more favors and gifts if she chooses him. On the flip side the Jerk conveys a lack of need. Now I don’t really care for the term Jerk because imo a true Jerk is like the unemployed druggie that steals money out of the girls purse while she’s asleep or is physically abusive…and sadly yes there are women that have issues and will somehow manage to find these guys over and over. Personally look at the ACTUAL men a woman has dated in the past. If she has a string of relationships with abusive men, avoid her. Subconsciously she needs this kind of dynamic, and if she can’t find it she will subconsciously create it. Now the majority of guys labeled jerks are given that label not for being actual assholes, but for not kissing a womans ass and treats her as if she matters more than he does. Initial Meeting: The nice guy immediately goes for the prettiest girl in the group and begins throwing compliments about her appearance out, while making sure not to be to overtly sexual, offers to buy her drinks, listens while she talks about past relationships and compares himself to her exes with comments like “Oh what a jerk, I would never treat a woman like that.” The Jerk, however can somehow manage to make it obvious that he’s a sexual being while at the same time talking to the woman as if she was no more important to him than a guy friend. He’s not interested in stories about men from her past and he works too damn hard for his money to be spending it buying her drinks simply because she chose the right parents and was born pretty. This is actually refreshing. Being openly sexual requires confidence, nice guys are afraid of being offensive. Expecting more than simply good looks shows self esteem and standards. This communicates value In essence the Nice guy says through words and actions, "I place a lot of value on you, these are all the things I can offer you in exchange for love and approval. " The jerk says “This is me, take it or leave it, cause if you don’t like it, there are plenty of other women who do” Calling the girl or calling her back: The nice guy will often call right away, usually to just um, yanno, talk a bit, and um maybe suggest possibly getting together sometime to hang out or something. If and when the girl calls back, the guy is so eager that he’s checking his phone every hour on the hour for a text or voicemail even if he’s at work or in some way busy. The jerk has plans and has a life. He calls when he has time, he checks messages when he gets to it. He is not so desperate for a woman he barely met that he checks his phone constantly. If she calls or texts he returns it when he can but makes no special effort to go out of his way and inconvenience himself to do so during work. When he calls he already has plans for the weekend, and he invites her to join him. On dates: The nice guy can and usually does spend a good amount of time planning a date to impress. These are usually generic “dinner and a movie” dates that are very obviously not his normal activities and chosen for their “impression” factor. The jerk on the other hand will usually make a date for an activity he actually likes and is something he would likely be doing anyway whether she agreed to come along or not. (remember lying/pretending?) These dates are not premeditated and deliberately thought out to “try” and impress. They are invitations to a look inside his life. This makes time with him feel like a reward. The nice guy wants a reward for the date, the jerk treats the date like a reward for the girl. This frame makes the jerk seem more valuable. And frankly makes the dates seem more original and interesting/fun. Over the long term. The nice guy will find the woman making suggestions about his appearance, how he should dress, the way his home should look, what his future plans should be, and slowly over time he’s molded like clay to the man the woman THINKS she wants. The Jerk is secure in his own appearance. If the woman likes a certain look more, she’s welcome to go a find a guy that fits the bill better. The jerk has his own goals, dreams, ambitions etc and they mean more to him than any woman. He is on a track and will not be swayed. But the jerk isn’t a slacker with no ambition…he has his own ambitions and desire for success, it’s just not always the conventional and safe concepts. The jerk wants to be a rockstar, or sports hero, or even start his own business, he won’t scratch and claw his way to middle management in a job he hates. This can lead to arguments, but it creates chemistry. I’d rather have an argument that leads to sex than concede to her wishes and lay in bed next to her while she falls asleep smiling and there’s no sexual “reward”. If you really look at it, the “jerk” is the one NOT pretending or lying. Cultivating the Jerk or Bad Boy image isn’t about putting on an act so much as it is accepting that having a separate “nice guy” act for attractive women, that is nothing like how you act with men or women you’re not attracted to…doesn’t work. It’s about learning how to value yourself more than a womans beauty and not making the act of meeting and getting to know them a forced attempt at “trying” to impress. Good rule of thumb is to ask yourself “would I do this for a guy or a woman I’m not attracted to?” if the answer is “no”, then you probably shouldn’t do it for her. Now there can and will be certain exceptions but I’m going to assume you’re intelligent enough to figure out the common sense applications. Of course if the girl is pregnant with your kid you’ll have to trade your Harley for a family car. Of course if you’re getting married you should consider finding a better job etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pat83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71e660/32.png) [@Pat83](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pat83)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/3 "2011-04-21T15:58:29Z")
Wow, RADMAN, this is the best and most concise online post I have ever read and I have been online for 13 years. The nice guy you described is me down to the tee. I voluntarily do things for pretty girls that I wouldn’t do for anybody else unless they ask for it. The problem is, I think I like doing these things. I believe I am doing the right thing when in fact I am not my usual self. Ofcourse if I do get the girl I am going to keep my promise but I guess a girl want to know the current / present me and not a future me. ---
**Author:** ![Pat83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71e660/32.png) [@Pat83](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pat83)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/4 "2011-04-21T17:56:40Z")
This post and what you have said “Manly Traits that turn Women on” reply #5 is what I am going to incorporate into my “make over” program. Could you tell me where I can find / learn more about these stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/5 "2011-04-23T04:25:09Z")
Well the Mystery Method does teach the technicals in a lot of ways on how to convey a Jerk personality. Not that Mystery would ever use the word but various aspects of his teaching could fall into that. Negging, DHV’s, Bait-hook-reel-release, Compliance testing/Hoop theory etc. All tactics designed to create the impression that even though you may find a woman attractive, you possess the state of mind that you don’t want her so badly that you’d bend over backwards in the hopes of getting a pat on the head and a cookie. Now as far as internalizing the actual mentality that the M3 model teaches you to convey, David Deangelo’s stuff is gold. The best ones are “Deep Inner Game”, “On Being a Man”, “Man Transformations” and “Mastery” The book “Way of the Superior Man” is good as is “Hold on to Your N.U.T’s” Dean Cortez has the “Bad Boy Blueprint” as well as the “Alpha Rules” which he co wrote with Carlos Xuma (and really almost anything by Carlos is helpful as well. ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/6 "2011-04-26T06:52:01Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > Dean Cortez has the “Bad Boy Blueprint” as well as the “Alpha Rules” which he co wrote with Carlos Xuma (and really almost anything by Carlos is helpful as well. I’ve discovered Carlos Xuma from reading your posts, and I got a hold of his Alpha program. I gotta say… ouch. It hurts a little, but in a good way. I never realized how much I fell into the nice guy trap myself until I sat here and listened to Carlos basically describe me to… well, me. Gonna really dig into this and try to get as much out of it as I can, so I just want to say, I appreciate you throwing his name out there. My curiosity has led me to a possible gold mine in the self-improvement department. ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/7 "2011-04-26T12:39:38Z")
> [@data4](#): > > I’ve discovered Carlos Xuma from reading your posts, and I got a hold of his Alpha program. I gotta say… ouch. It hurts a little, but in a good way. I never realized how much I fell into the nice guy trap myself until I sat here and listened to Carlos basically describe me to… well, me. Gonna really dig into this and try to get as much out of it as I can, so I just want to say, I appreciate you throwing his name out there. My curiosity has led me to a possible gold mine in the self-improvement department. I can totally relate. I was very much the typical nice guy for a long time and somewhat bitter. When I happened upon some of Carlos’s stuff I would listen to what he said and was like “uhhhh ok maybe I’ve done that…hmmmm yeah done that too” I found myself saying that so much I half wondered if he was spying on me and taking notes lol. The really hard part was letting go of the self delusion about my “niceness” I wasn’t being nice to women because I was a good giving person. I feel that I am now but back then my actions were agenda driven. I felt I could generate attraction with gifts and favors. I was trying to buy love without even knowing it. I was convinced that if a woman wasn’t attracted I just had to try harder at showing my attraction. Then I started into the pua stuff and it worked, but while Mystery, Style and Gambler taught me how to act, Carlos and David D helped me understand exactly what that type of personality is and why it attracts women. Since then I’ve sorta come full circle and am finding that once natural game is developed the techniques of outer game happen as a side effect. IE a guy who’s developed the naturally attractive personality and lifestyle will usually run a Mystery style game without even realizing it. The advantage if inner game development is that unlike outter game tactics, a dominant and attractive personality spills over into other area’s of your life and not just dating and seduction. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/8 "2011-04-28T20:23:56Z")
Well said Rad. Couldn’t have said it any better. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/9 "2011-11-28T16:27:13Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > Dean Cortez has the “Bad Boy Blueprint” as well as the “Alpha Rules” which he co wrote with Carlos Xuma (and really almost anything by Carlos is helpful as well. Carlos and Dean’s stuff is really good. It helped me improve myself and still does… Was wondering.. the “jerk” / “bad boy” description fits my gf too..and it must be a good thing then… she’s really an alpha type.. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/10 "2011-11-28T17:58:04Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > The jerk on the other hand will usually make a date for an activity he actually likes and is something he would likely be doing anyway whether she agreed to come along or not. (remember lying/pretending?) These dates are not premeditated and deliberately thought out to “try” and impress. They are invitations to a look inside his life. This makes time with him feel like a reward. The nice guy wants a reward for the date, the jerk treats the date like a reward for the girl. This frame makes the jerk seem more valuable. And frankly makes the dates seem more original and interesting/fun. What if she never accepts to attend activities you like… and you still meet on other occasions. Of course you should still go to those activities. What happens when she refuses to look inside the “jerk”'s life then? ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/who-and-what-is-a-jerk/49979/11 "2011-11-28T21:44:02Z")
Where is RAD? That’s it I’m calling him!