# Wicca: is Essential Magick worth the investment to learn about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388 "2007-03-06T20:56:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bunny)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/21 "2007-03-07T11:57:06Z")
People who are witches born of witches, born of witches etc. etc. DON’T see it that way, and never will. My LAST word on this subject. EDITED: I am editing this due to the fact I am still rolling about the floor, giggling at the thought of ANYONE who has belief in, and is actively involved with, other realms - having a “Closed mind!” (see post below this one) Would you like a dictionary? I think perhaps you need to gen up on the definition of the expression “Closed mind!” Bloody hell… We are about the MOST open-minded people you could hope to meet. Each and every religion or belief-set has its own merits and we treat ALL equally. Oh, and kindly don’t assume YOU were being targeted by my first post, when I only excluded ONE person (lovely Lady Lor) from the “gumff” reference. Ail )O( ---
**Author:** ![Walkr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/walkr/32/2403_2.png) [@Walkr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Walkr)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/22 "2007-03-07T12:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Please do NOT post gross misinformation (I don’t CARE what rubbish you found online!) on areas or topics about which you have little or no knowledge. It only tends to anger and irritate those of us who DO practice, and hold the values sacrosanct. Yes, it makes angry those who have closed minds and are dogmatic. A open person doesn’t get angry, because of some things posted at an online discussion board which aren’t ok with their world-view. Practice what you want. For me magick is about practicing it and not fighting about ones beliefs at an online discussion board. The links I posted are about non-dogmatic magick. They are about chaos magick, the punk-rock version of magick. They are about Meta-Magick, a modern form of Magick which looks at the structure not the content of magick. Often it’s not the content, but the structure, which is important. They’ve nothing to do with Wicca. I don’t care about Wicca and I think I stated this with “I don’t know much about Wicca.” followed by things I know well. ---
**Author:** ![Walkr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/walkr/32/2403_2.png) [@Walkr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Walkr)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/23 "2007-03-07T12:32:17Z")
@Gem: You are from the seduction scene, aren’t you? I think I’ve read something about you being connected to Mystery Method somewhere here. Ross Jeffries recommends “Liber Null & Psychonaut: An Introduction to Chaos Magic” by Peter J. Carroll and “FutureRitual” by Philip H. Farber. Richard Bandler of NLP-fame also talks good about Mr. Farber (“Philip H. Farber in his new book [The Book of Atem] has once again shown where Magick meets the brain.”). You find free articles by Philip H. Farber at his web-page, a free book about chaos magick is “Oven-ready Chaos” by Phil Hine and maybe you find a free version of “Liber Null” somewhere. So you can have a look at it and maybe it’s the right thing for you. @Ail: Sorry for posting about Magick in a thread about Wicca. I thought those things were somehow correlated and Gems Webpage is called “essential magick”. And Magick of course is a word brought to you by Mr Aleister Crowley. “Yu don’t hav a CLUE” - very nice of you, sorry for my lack of knowledge. EDIT: ok ok… I was moved by a post on an internet discussion board myself somehow… I’m sorry for my ignorance. Have a nice day 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![unknown\_user88](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/unknown_user88/32/842_2.png) [@unknown\_user88](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/unknown_user88)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/24 "2007-03-07T12:39:09Z")
i understand why she says a her blood would boil though, cos i feel the same when people bad mouth and talk about Satanism when they have completly got the wrong idea about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bunny)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/25 "2007-03-07T13:21:16Z")
Excuse me? I am geting totally SICK of people assuming I negatively rep them! Did you lose 4 rep points? If not, kindly apologise, as I can ONLY give or take 4 rep points at a time. Good grief… as if I am the only person who would be annoyed by that post. Check out the “Share your negative rep points” thread, here in the Lounge to get a better idea. Childish is something I definitely am NOT. Ail 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LJB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@LJB](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LJB)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/26 "2007-03-07T13:38:00Z")
There’s no reason for anyone to take offense for a thread like this, regardless of beliefs, opinions or otherwise. I find it somewhat hypocritical to quote Wicca as a non-religion, and then tel people they have no idea what they’re talking about when they’re discussing a very personal aspect of it (magick). To claim the keys to an entire belief system is to label it dogmatic, which by definition is religious. No-one has said anything here “anti-Wiccan” or anti-anything at all, so why blood would boil is beyond any logical conclusion I could come to. Had someone bad-mouthed it without justification, I could understand - but all anyone here has done is either question it, or (like myself) presented a viewpoint as a (prior) practicing Wiccan. Walkr, do you have any links to the Ross Jeffries stuff? I’m a member of the seduction scene (I’ve met, worked with and vacation frequently with some of the Neil Strauss crew, although not Neil himself - never had the pleasure of meeting him or Mystery, yet) - I’d like to see how the Chaos Magic ties into all this. Magick, NLP, seduction, mones - quite a powerful combo, I’d say! ---
**Author:** ![R0N](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/r0n/32/1570_2.png) [@R0N](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/R0N)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/27 "2007-03-07T17:42:07Z")
> [@LJB](#): > > Magick, NLP, seduction, pheromones - quite a powerful combo, I’d say! This is my field of expertise. I also have been practicing magick solo for 21 years, and my father was a shaman, NLP practitioner and councillor, and professor of anthropology. My father taught me as much as he knew about these subjects, and to keep an open mind. Now I use the quoted above for my job as an escort, with pheromones newly added. I rely on the tools above to be successful in my work everyday. I use rituals to focus, NLP to communicate, seduction and pheromones to enhance what I already have. I started wicca to heal myself as a young boy. My first book was written by Laurie Cabot, a witch from salem, mass. For me, this made me believe that I have more control over what happens around me, and removed my feeling of helplessness. If something you believe helps you, keep it. Call it whatever you want, it really doesn’t matter (or it shouldn’t matter). DO IT more than discuss about it! ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/28 "2007-03-07T17:47:27Z")
> [@R0N](#): > > This is my field of expertise. I also have been practicing magick solo for 21 years, and my father was a shaman, NLP practitioner and councillor, and professor of anthropology. My father taught me as much as he knew about these subjects, and to keep an open mind. > > Now I use the quoted above for my job as an escort, with pheromones newly added. I rely on the tools above to be successful in my work everyday. I use rituals to focus, NLP to communicate, seduction and pheromones to enhance what I already have. > > I started wicca to heal myself as a young boy. My first book was written by Laurie Cabot, a witch from salem, mass. For me, this made me believe that I have more control over what happens around me, and removed my feeling of helplessness. If something you believe helps you, keep it. Call it whatever you want, it really doesn’t matter (or it shouldn’t matter). DO IT more than discuss about it! Laurie is a hoot. i lives 45 min away from her. saw her and her kids every Samhain. ---
**Author:** ![R0N](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/r0n/32/1570_2.png) [@R0N](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/R0N)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/29 "2007-03-07T17:59:43Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > Laurie is a hoot. i lives 45 min away from her. > > saw her and her kids every Samhain. I saw her once last time I was in salem. This was about 13 years after reading her book, so was exciting for me! ---
**Author:** ![unknown\_user88](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/unknown_user88/32/842_2.png) [@unknown\_user88](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/unknown_user88)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/30 "2007-03-07T19:03:00Z")
Do any of you ever try contacting Guardian Angels, i’ve heard stories how people have called out to them and later in the month seen the replies. ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/31 "2007-03-07T20:51:05Z")
> [@unknown\_user88](#): > > Do any of you ever try contacting Guardian Angels, i’ve heard stories how people have called out to them and later in the month seen the replies. I can’t speak for Wiccans as I know so little about the subject, but shamanism works with spirits not unlike what you are calling Guardian Angels. Those who believe in shamanism believe that all of us have a guardian (or power) animal. One can actually journey to the spirit realms to meet and consult with their power animal… either alone or with the help of one who knows how to journey. ---
**Author:** ![unknown\_user88](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/unknown_user88/32/842_2.png) [@unknown\_user88](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/unknown_user88)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/32 "2007-03-07T20:55:57Z")
Is that what that new found martial arts believe in in Osaka i think. Where they stand under a freezing ater fall for about ten minutes because thats where spirits are known to hang about. It gives you a 6th sense thing, i have seen it actually work and was sooo intruiged by it ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/33 "2007-03-07T21:01:56Z")
Probably steeped in Shinto, which is the Japanese religion of spirit (or ‘kami’) reverence. Extremely similar to shamanism, Shinto believes that everything has a spirit, including the waterfall you mentioned… as well as rocks. All are a part of nature… all a part of the spirit world. Hmmm, sorry for hijacking the original thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/34 "2007-03-07T21:40:06Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > Probably steeped in Shinto, which is the Japanese religion of spirit (or ‘kami’) reverence. Extremely similar to shamanism, Shinto believes that everything has a spirit, including the waterfall you mentioned… as well as rocks. All are a part of nature… all a part of the spirit world. > > Hmmm, sorry for hijacking the original thread. I have become intersted in Shinto myself. See similarities to Gaia. However it was explaned to me that it is more of a “cultural” thing than what would be considered a “religion.” ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/35 "2007-03-07T21:49:33Z")
> [@Rbt](#): > > I have become intersted in Shinto myself. See similarities to Gaia. However it was explaned to me that it is more of a “cultural” thing than what would be considered a “religion.” It is very much a cultural thing. However it was officially adopted as state religion of Japan following the Meiji Restoration in the late 1800’s and was so until post-1945 when the Americans brought with the the concept of separation of church and state and re-wrote the Japanese constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/36 "2007-03-08T00:40:50Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > It is very much a cultural thing. However it was officially adopted as state religion of Japan following the Meiji Restoration in the late 1800’s and was so until post-1945 when the Americans brought with the the concept of separation of church and state and re-wrote the Japanese constitution. Yes, I recall the “State Shinto” that developed especially during the period around the 1930’s. If I recall it was part of “making” the Emperor essentially a god. I’m pretty sure that was one of the things that got changed in the post-WWII consititution etc. It was a politicalization and “religionization” (if I can create that word) of what had been prety much a cultural thing, a way of life. (Meiji restoration was 1853-1868 if I recall, although I get confused as according to my notes the Tokugawa Bakufu supposedly lasted till 1867, then there was the Boshin War of 1868-69. Not sure where one ended and the other began…) Whoops, this is PheoTalk, not history class… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dutchess](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/the_dutchess/32/1279_2.png) [@The\_Dutchess](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/The_Dutchess)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/37 "2007-03-23T06:01:42Z")
Ail, I would be interested in reading your views. Also are their any websites you would recommend as high quality, or books you have found useful? I have read so many websites, but so often there is a problem. It seems frequently a person will maybe read a book, or someone else’s site and then create one of their own. Unfortunately this person has no real understanding of what they are talking about, and are more often repeating someone else’s views. With so many sites such as this, it makes it hard to trudge through and find those with more substance. ---
**Author:** ![jpballerina](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jpballerina/32/1004_2.png) [@jpballerina](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jpballerina)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/38 "2007-03-23T19:32:51Z")
I just wanted to say in Ali’s defence that it’s very frustrating to have beliefs that people think they understand, and even if they are being nice about it, there is no way you can sit everyone down and correct them. That is just frustrating. It’s not a matter of people being mean, it’s a matter of people thinking they know what you’re about and they have the complete wrong idea, and it’s too sacred, special, and complicated to set the entire world straight. And that’s my two bits. xoxo jp ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/39 "2007-03-24T18:30:05Z")
> [@jpballerina](#): > > I just wanted to say in Ali’s defence that it’s very frustrating to have beliefs that people think they understand, and even if they are being nice about it, there is no way you can sit everyone down and correct them. That is just frustrating. It’s not a matter of people being mean, it’s a matter of people thinking they know what you’re about and they have the complete wrong idea, and it’s too sacred, special, and complicated to set the entire world straight. > > And that’s my two bits. > > xoxo > jp I didn’t get involved in this thread, but your response made me think a little. Considering I’m tired and hung-over please don’t take my response as too blunt. OK: If you have an ideal, religion, ethical principal and people are getting it wrong, or plain ole misunderstanding it wouldn’t you want to try and take the time to set the record straight? I would be more than willing to try and spread my message through knowledge and understanding. I would want everyone to know what I stand for and if that meant going over it countless times all the better. It shows compassion, understanding and wisdom. To stand back and say you don’t know jack and you never will shows character flaw and furthers peoples misconceptions. How could anyone ever take someone NOT willing to share knowledge as reputable or for that matter knowledgeable at all? Anyway like I said Ballerina, a bit blunt but not a persona attack, just too tired and wore out from last night with my girl to refine my thoughts a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388/40 "2007-03-25T03:43:40Z")
> [@jpballerina](#): > > I just wanted to say in Ali’s defence that it’s very frustrating to have beliefs that people think they understand, and even if they are being nice about it, there is no way you can sit everyone down and correct them. That is just frustrating. It’s not a matter of people being mean, it’s a matter of people thinking they know what you’re about and they have the complete wrong idea, and it’s too sacred, special, and complicated to set the entire world straight. > > And that’s my two bits. > > xoxo > jp i could not resonate more, girly.🙂 as time goes by, i just realize more and more to point in a direction and maybe they follow the same breadcrumbs you did to reach the same conclusions, or they will find something better suited. anytime you “teach” someone what your beliefs are, you put yourself in the position of defending them, which never needs to be. my personal opinion is that the mindset Ail spoke of isnt something you can pick up at barnes and noble or the library. more often than not its passed on from generation to generation. wicca isnt learned from reading 10 books and meeting 3 authors and going to a reputable wicca school. you live it,experience it,and its just what you are. you are it or your not. i think its alot like this Shinto. shamanism. its all different flavors of the same thing. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/wicca-is-essential-magick-worth-the-investment-to-learn-about-it/2388.md?page=1)