New Product Launch: RAW Power - 39.97 - Goodbye Primal!

Store & Marketplace Store Announcements & Feedback
1

A hugely successful marketer in the “seduction” field took one look at the pheromone market and had this to recommend to me: stop being so nice, and start making enemies.

He recommended that because, after all, I started Androtics because of the lack of good products. If I wanted good products, I had to make them. I’ve been so busy in the business end of things, I almost forgot that. Thinking about why I got into this in the first place, reminds me of the purpose.

Fact is, there STILL aren’t many truly good products.

He told me to remember the anger I had back when I had to buy these imperfect products.

That was easy. I remember wasting my $70 on Primal Instinct, to only find it to do only a tenth of what they describe. What’s worse, using it in the daytime made my working environment a nightmare. I almost got fired, and alienated quite a few people in the process! They never told me that. In fact, they recommend that you use it AT work. “DUH!”

These poorly designed, poorly described products made by companies that really don’t give a damn honestly DO make my blood b~o~i~l!

(Okok, Primal technically was a “good” product at one point, because it was strong when others were weak… so it gets off on a technicality… but it’s functional design isn’t good (it’s never been updated to be better), and neither is the bad advice they give in their sales letter)

So while it’s against my nature, I’m going to try to do exactly what my buddy said, and turn my own prior disappointment and anger into a benefit for all.

First mission: Replace Primal with something of superior design.

As such, I just released RAW POWER, a completely dosed, unscented androstenone oil that puts Primal in the doghouse. What my not so politically correct marketing friend called, “putting that dirty little ***** where it belongs!”

Check it out now, and let me know what I can add or change about the description.

[link removed]

I know complete “newbies” do need to be informed of the actual benefits of androstenone. I’m not a big -none user myself, because my own natural -none levels are so high, so I may have focused a little too much on negatives here. I will be fixing that, especially as suggestions come in.

I just want to be accurate as possible, above all. Pheromones can be as hard as hell to properly describe. What’s worse, to reach the consumer market you often need to sell the sizzle, not the steak (then deliver a damn good steak). I’m trying. It’ll be a balancing act to be fully honest and boisterous at the same time.

Recommendations certainly welcome, and fully appreciated.

[link removed]

All the best,
Michael

PS -Only $39.97 to the first 250 buyers, then the price goes up.

If you want to look good to your pheromone using buddies, this is THE ONE to tell 'em about right now.

Finally, sanity and pheromones collide… now!

PPS - Picture soon. This will have a simple, chemical resistant inhouse label, probably for the first 500 or so. The real pro, brushed aluminum A314 label is costly, and will likely come after the price raises up to normal level.

I also want to make sure the product name is liked and appropriate, before I commit to ordering 10k or 20k high priced labels.

PPS - Yes. I was wearing one drop of this product today when writing this… It works! GRRRRRR!! :open_mouth:

Do we want Raw Power & Dirty?
Some questions Re: IS, IFM, IH
Dealing with -none variations
Mens Pheromone Guide revised 6/15
2

Even though raw androstenone with no other pheomones tend to make me rage, I was crazy productive with just one drop of Raw Power the other day. I also got equally crazy “hit” later when I had to shop in the evening, after applying 2 drops of A314. Men were visibly nervous, but friendly.

3

I guess I should explicitly state this:

Comments welcome and encouraged.

These products aren’t set in stone. Before they go out to be professionally labeled, think of them as experiments.

I’m trying to evolve the pheromonal tools to give a) what you want, and b) what you can use, and use easily.

Again, comments welcomed and highly encouraged.

4

I’ll say this, I know the labels look good in the photo, but in my opinion, labels, especially the A314 ones, are a negative for pheromone users who want packaging to be subtle.

I guess A314 is going the business crowd, catalog type route, so it’s cool. But do you really want to spend that much on labels that people are going to want to tear off? As long as it benefits the selling of the product, and perhaps people’s perception of it, fine, but a lot of phero-vets (nothing to do with animals btw) would appreciate a toned down approach.

5

Thanks for your feedback. What you say makes a lot of sense!

I do agree with you. Some caveats:

Raw Power would be meant to be a Primal replacement (sales-wise), so the label is probably important on this one, too. This will eventually be a “for resale” product so we can get superior product (what’s in the bottle) into the retail channel, so making it appealing as a buy is important. That means making it appealing on the outside, too.

We offered ExperiMone to one of the only trustable pheromone retailers out there quite awhile back, and they just didn’t want it. They didn’t want easy to use experimental kits with that were ugly and unappealing to their customers. Otherwise, you’d be using it right now, and not talking to me.

If I could’ve avoided direct sales, I would’ve. Consumer sales take time away from what I wanted to be doing. But it didn’t work out, so here we are…

Now we’re trying a different approaching, and keeping ugly ExperiMone internally (which is actually better, as we can control costs better on the most expensive new pheromones). We’ll also be developing other labels to reach other segments of the potential market.

True phero vets like you would use ExperiMone (it’s what I use), hopefully closer to it’s original incarnation, which has a trademark Pheromone User Interface (PUI). It keeps changing - it was originally color coded for fast access, but more information is always found that breaks the coding. I’ll show you the simple B&W version printed on the inhouse chemical resistant labels.

Actually, look at the Alpha Nol oils in our little vendio store. That’s very close to the stripped down ExperiMone label we’ve been doing inhouse.

You get the mcg in a little box (looks more like a speed limit sign on these) so you can rapidly grab the right strength bottle for your mix. The full PUI as it was meant to be printed professionally, though, also has a code for ANOL, a color strip and other fast visual cues.

There’s also an inhouse ExperiMone label for the exact same bottle Raw Power is in, an ExperiMone “Oil” series. It’ll be vastly more discreet than Raw Power… very similar to the Alpha Nol label you see.

If anyone finds that in your bathroom, I doubt they’d care. They’d probably think it was fancy “corn remover”. Something given to you by your doctor. They’d pass by it.

(On the other hand, I think can think of college “jocks” who’d be proud if their date found a flashy bottle of Raw Power in their bathrooms)

Same innards, different markets (with different levels of experience), different sales channels, different uses.

A big goal is to push a lot of the truly bad product off the market.

Primal was a “good” product when it came out, only because it was strong, and many other products contained nothing. That was many years ago, though, and it being a “good product” was more of a technicality than a fact.

In fact, it’s not a good product, usability or results-wise, unless you’re very very careful with it. It hasn’t changed to meet the market. It was never improved, and probably never will be - the manufactuer has what it wants – sales.

When I originally experimented with it, I held a day job working for someone else - and it almost got me fired. Their recommendations to use it for success at work were just plain ol’ irresponsible.

If you’ve ever read people trying to share mixes using the current spec of consumer grade product, you’ll understand why I’m in a rush to replace outdated product like this. It keeps pheromone technology in the dark ages.

Right now, it’s like people share recipes for brownies, and one person ends up coming out as a moisture free cookie that ends up tasting like an old banana, and another person gets a green slime cake! Recipes with a half drop Primal, 3 dabs this, and 8.5 inches of that just don’t translate, because nothing is dosed… and even the application tools differ.

I notice that many people use droppers on normal products. All different droppers (which produce different drop sizes!). It’s like bakers all having things they call “teaspoons” which aren’t really standardized teaspoons. Even just having the same dropper makes a huge difference in terms of mix translation.

Put another way: Raw Power would be the same as ExperiMone -None 10/mcg drop, so if that same user ready to move up to a new level of intelligent pheromone usage… hey, they already have the product. Just with a different user interface (and maybe a slightly cheaper grade of -none in the consumer product vs. the experimenter’s product, although we’re using the same high grade now).

This way, everyone would be on the same page, no matter how they got into the pheromone using funnel.

I think we’ve met with resistance to dosed products in retail channels, because, truth be known, they would reduce your dependency on specific products.

Also, precision tools may also decrease total number of products purchased, because you’re not chewing through a bazillion of them trying to find “the right one”. The ability to truly “roll your own” mixes reduces the next to buy the next big thing in premixed. (amongst the phero vets, anyway - the biggest market out there isn’t the vets, it’s the people who want the simple, premixed products that work more than they don’t)

I know back before I started Androtics, I had purchased almost a thousand dollars of less than useful product. The next big thing never happened. If it ever did, it surely wouldn’t be dosed. Dosing and precision are concepts that lives in a different planet from pheromone manufacturers.

My thinking is more for me “back then”, not now. This actually stabs ourselves in back a little sales wise… (but for a good cause)

Oh, what I’ve would’ve dosed to have dosed products, and mix portability! All my suggestions fell on manufacturers ears. It’s not like I didn’t contact a couple of them. Some were quite rude.

So, anyway, while a dosed system like this it may reduce unnecessary purchases a bit, what it will do is make for rich, intelligent conversation. It will DRASTICALLY reduce confusion, and give a whole new level of insight to those “in the field”. Pheromone related forums will undergo their first make-over, their first renaissance.

“Help” will come faster than ever.

This truly gives science to the people, and can help spur a revolution in phero mixology. If the overall plan works well, it will also allow simple pheromone dabblers to become full fledged pheromone enthusiastics, without having to ditch the pretty product that sucks 'em in. (remember, Raw Power is ExperiMone - just a different UI)

Now that you know much more of the “full” story, your additional comments/critique appreciated. (Comments/critiques from anybody reading this, in fact!)

6

Futurist, I just realized, too, that APC is just about as subtle as a baseball bat.

I used to be nervous about having that one around.

APC and Primal are the two top products. I’d love to replace Primal (the favorite among high end newbies who really want results) with something, umm… sane. And replace APC (the low end product that I think people buy as a novelty and/or a cheap “test”) with something that actually delivers a little better. A better “taste test”, if you were.

I may have to make the APC substitute especially gawdy. I have no idea who I could hire to do that, because I’m not really into gawdy.

There’s a company out there that makes medallions for liquor bottles. Maybe I can have them make faux silver and gold medallions on some chains for an entry-level pheromone product.

OH! I KNOW! Not only that… but I can have the bottle wear a little bit of synthetic hair… some chest hair in the center.

As digusting as this is, it’s kinda funny to me, and almost makes sense. :wink:

I’ve always wondered why gross looking products seem to succeed. I think it must be because you’re either really in tune with it, or you can view it as amusing…

Maybe a little of both.

A pheromone bottle with chest hair actually makes more sense than I’d like to admit. hahahaha

7

RAW Power - Labeling

Alright – regarding the labels (more about chest hair later)

Sometimes it’s hard for me to react, because I read the posts from both of you and think “Yep – Yep, makes sense!”
And after that what is there left to say? :confused: But I’ll give it my best shot.

I totally agree with Futurist. Anyone advanced enough to be playing with individual mones doesn’t give a hoot about the label. I too have removed labels from products. I don’t really fancy my husband finding something like “Passion Copulin Concentrate” or “Scent of Eros” on my vanity. I’m picturing him going “Honey, were you shopping the Adam and Eve catalogue?” Moi? :roll_eyes:

In some instances I’ve replaced them with home-made labels to indicate the strength of my mix, or to remind myself what’s in that specific vial. Whomever turned down the experi-mones for lack of a fancy label, made a mistake IMHO.

This being said, I understand the need to attack the market from different angles. There is a market for ready-to-use products, and products being resold by other outlets. I think the key will be to always first clearly define (for yourself) what your target market is, and then to tailor the name as well as the label to that specific target market. Which is, I think, precisely what you were saying.

Raw Power is an excellent name. Oh you know what some companies do? They’ll come up with a name and then send it to “evaluators”. Without telling them what the product is for. The evaluator is then being asked to write down what the name evokes for him/her. It is sometimes accompanied by various questions. Like “What kind of a product do you think this is for?”

Now about that chest hair… :open_mouth: I think printed hair would go over better than synthetic (real looking) hair. (LOL or a gorilla?) I recall a post by someone who freaked out because one of his hairs accidentally ended up inside the roll-top bottle. This is super hygienic US of A after all.

8

Thanks for your comments.

The hair on the bottle thing is a joke. Granted, it might work.

For whatever reason, there’s a huge number of people out there that buy truly tacky products. I say this like I’m not one of them… but who knows? :wink:

I think we all buy truly tacky tasteless version of something… I’m not that attracted to tacky looking pheromone products, but I am probably am in something.

My feeling that I “have taste” prohibits me from even thinking or admitting to myself that I probably own quite a few tacky things. I bet we’re all like that. We think we have “taste”, but at least in some ways, we don’t (and we don’t even know it).

With Raw Power and whatever will replace APC, it’s really easy: I’m going for a similar look, different contents (better results), same buyers, same sellers. That’s a all done deal. It’s just mimicing the outer, and improving the inner.

Thanks for the Raw Power comment.

I think the “Raw” in “Raw Power” describes the -none effect nicely. -None is raw. Alone, it’s like an sparking electrical transformer. I think careful naming of simple compounds will help people understand how to mix them, when they eventually get into that.

… Ok, here’s some of my experiences…

When I used to buy other’s pheromone products, I sometimes left the prettier ones out and hid the ugly ones like APC.

Aurelie, if I ever had girlfriends that used pheromone products, I never would’ve noticed. Unless you spend our money to buy your cosmetics, we just don’t care. It’s like a big blur to us. All your cosmetics are.

I’ve even read the ingredients off of hundreds of ladies cosmetics, and I’ll still not “cosmetic aware”. The labels have more appeal to me than the supposed function, because I’m very chemically aware.

You might even be able to have something super obvious - a big hairspray sized orange containers with “Man Spray” written all over it, and if we actually noticed, we’d just think it was cute.

Everything you buy is a pheromone like, anyway, in function. Think about it. Ladies are constantly buying things to make themselves “More attractive”, it’s not unusual.

This is perfectly well known and accepted. If it makes you feel better thinking you’re doing something naughty and underhanded, so be it, but I really doubt women have to be on the “down low”.

Men are supposed to be tough (except for the “metrosexuals”), and have tended not to use many or any cosmetics, besides a razor and a can of shaving cream.

That’s why Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is such an easy show to produce. Most hetero men do very little to intentionally increase their appeal.

I can understand men wanting to hide things a little more, especially because women are more detective like than men when it comes to matters of love and lust. Anything beyond a razor and shaving cream will be scrutinized, whether I or other men actively admit it.

When we do admit it, we admit that women would be killer cops and special agents!

… Ok…

I was analyzing the markets lately. Women mostly look for “perfume”. A -fifth- as many men looking for cologne, as women look for perfume. Twice as many men who look for cologne search for pheromones! That’s really interesting.

Online, tons of men looking for “pheromones to attract women” or something similar. There’s almost no searches for “pheromones to attract men”.

It appears that men look for something akin to seduction technology, whereas women look for more traditional routes - makeup, cologne, etc. In fact, I don’t remember us having many female customers. (granted, we don’t deal with the public much yet… we’ll find out better soon)

Something funny happens when we’ve gone out there to the public, in person or via some test ads oneline and elsewhere. Women have approached us to get the same benefits as A314 promises for men. That’s an interesting market. I don’t know how to deliver that yet, but I’m working on it. Women love the idea of respect, especially in the workplace.

Female real estate agents want A314 badly for the trust signal.

I’m getting a little offtrack here, and maybe revealing too much to competitors. (I’ll move this thread elsewhere)

Anyway, label-wise.. I do like the ugly stuff myself. The market for ugly is limited by people’s wisdom about these matters.

It appears that you get people into it with something pretty first, then they get into ugly.. or they just don’t give a damn.

I like A314, too. It’s clandestine because it’s not a pheromone product. It’s labeled with the trademark Human Musk, and soon some will be labeled NeuroInluence technology as test. You can pass it off as anything. Doesn’t matter.

With me, I typically kept everything out in the open, because women will find all your stuff anyway. Keeping things out in the open was really the easiest way to not be questioned. Dead serious.

When you hide things, you also set up a “hiding” things mental frame, like what you’re doing is wrong… so if you’re asked, you’re not going to as prepared to explain something as someone who keeps stuff out in the open.

I only hid APC because it made me feel cheap and stupid. It smelled better than it looked. I don’t think the label came off well, because it was made out of that paperish crap that’s difficult to remove (whereas the A314 comes off nicely).

If asked about APC, I’d have to say something like “a friend must’ve dropped that here… how silly!”

A product like SOE you have to keep under the sink, because it’s a roll on, and men don’t use rollons.

While it never worked for me, Athena has a nice system, and actually gives you a second unit to mix into (or did, anyway). I think I’m going to try that. It’s nice and clandestine.

It’s actually a great way to sell an “unscented” product. Unscented doesn’t work as well, but mixed w/fragrance does. All you have to is sell someone a fragrance drill to get the @#*(@ damn liquid out, and it’s perfect - pheromones plus their favorite cologne or perfume. :slight_smile:

I kept the Primal out in the open, because it looked nice. It was like ornamentation. If asked about it, I would’ve been honest. “I got you a different way. It looks nice, but what’s inside doesn’t work that well”. (I’m one of those people who would have to use less than a drop of Primal, which isn’t the easiest thing in the world to keep consistent)

You can even “giggle” it off and tell them that the pheromones are just a foot in the door or an adult security blanket (“I wouldn’t want to miss out on someone like you, now would I?”). You can shrug it off as minor or funny, and just point out that you’re with them now, and that’s what matters. Your relationship is bigger than some little chemicals (which is true, too).

Pheromones are the only known social lubricants in a bottle, besides liquor. Probably even more lubricant like than liquor. Just like motor oil, they don’t do anything unless the engine is on.

You can blame yourself for the primary effect, just like when you talk about how fast your car is, you talk about the engine, not the motor oil. Say that you’re the star, and everything else is secondary. Nobody tends to give the supporting cast and crew as much as they deserve, and you can use this fact to shrug off the mones.

“Pheromones are just the ukele players in my band o’ love, baby, but I’m the lead vocalist and write all the love lyrics”

I’ve been “caught” before, and it’s no big deal. The more the other person fusses at first, the more they’ll admire you for it.

I mean it… Most people won’t get angry with you for using pheromones, anymore than they’d get angry with you for being charismatic and using their first name often. “That’s just a technique that makes me like you… well, I HATE YOU FOR IT!”

Just doesn’t happen. It’s a fear that doesn’t materialize.

People like you more for doing things that make them like you. The little peruasive tricks make them feel good (as long as you’re not using ones that harm people) and makes you seem more intelligent, all at the same time.

…

I really like the idea of the evaluators. I always use friends and staff for that. I like using “new” friends, too, and friends of friends. People I just met. I hammer them for ideas all the time, because they’re “blank”. Didn’t know I could hire pro evaluators. Cool!

(then again, maybe a pro evaluator would just tell me what i want to hear, so they get paid? not cool!)

Thanks a million for your comments.

As always, feedback is appreciated… whether it’s agreeing, adding new things, or saying that I’m full of crap. :slight_smile: Being well informed is a good thing.

9

Michael, as far as Pherofreaks go, you’re probably the only person I’ve come across with enthusiasm that can match mine (or better it!).

Alot of the things you’ve said on this forum, have really amazed me, since the points and lanaguage are similar to what I’ve said in the past. I’ve really had a major beef with primal instinct being so damn irresponsible, putting instant ODs as the default delivery dose. You could even say this about LC stuff as well, but Primal is a more widespread thing, so I can only imagine the novices that unknowingly caused problems for themselves with this stuff, especially at work.

Obviously that fear came true in your case. In my case, the crappy information by manufactuers and retailers caused me to use OD amounts of none and caused all sorts of issues. I feel bad for my friends for having to hang out around that. And I certainly didn’t help myself in terms of how it affected my own mood.

Alpha male, alpha male, even the LS crowd builded none as just that. Bullshit. Aggression. Dominance. That’s what none is. Use language like that and you begin to understand why sometimes less is more. Unfortunatly, I, like you, had to learn the hard way, and we both had to basically do it all on our own. There’s an ugly learning curve. Why can’t people at least be responsible when they are playing with people’s lives here? You want to provide instant ODs, alright, put out a shit product, but provide people with the information they need. Nobody does this. I think there has been a sway with the hardcore user crowd though with regard to none, partly because of the newer nice-vibe products out there, and partly because I know I’ve hammered home my thoughts on it. I once called it “the most important yet overrated pheromone out there” actually because… well, you can figure out why I said that at the time.

The good part is now you’re out there with Androtics, which has a attitute that is completely opposite of that of the retailers and manufactuers who have ruled the market.

<<<Raw Power would be meant to be a Primal replacement (sales-wise), so the label is probably important on this one, too. This will eventually be a “for resale” product so we can get superior product (what’s in the bottle) into the retail channel, so making it appealing as a buy is important. That means making it appealing on the outside, too>>>.*

Making a better primal certainly is logical and not to difficult to formulate. I’m sure Primal will rule for a long tme though with it’s advertising. Androtics is so niche right now. I guess eventually when you have other people selling it, perhaps it will make a difference in terms of replacing it, and Raw Power will become the big thing, but quality isn’t necessarily what drives that market. Re-sellers want to make their $.

<<<We offered ExperiMone to one of the only trustable pheromone retailers out there quite awhile back, and they just didn’t want it. They didn’t want easy to use experimental kits with that were ugly and unappealing to their customers. Otherwise, you’d be using it right now, and not talking to me.>>>

Not surprisng. Even the collect-every-product users don’t want to have to put much work into discovering what stuff does or choosing from a lot of stuff, or having too much ambiguity. Just some product X does this, product Y does this, product Z does this, let me mix it all together. There are very few who would jump all over the kit. Maybe what 2-5 percent of that retailer’s audience? Given that it might threaten other products then, and shift power to the users, I can see why it was turned down. And I can’t fault a businessman making a business decision. It’s important to embrace business thinking, even when your cause has non-monetary goals, because the only way to fight fire is with fire. All the complaints about sweat shops, for instance, are best addressed by organizing and boycotting, and forcing business to make decisions against sweat shop labor simply because it hurts their bottom line. Anyway.

***<<True phero vets like you would use ExperiMone (it’s what I use), hopefully closer to it’s original incarnation, which has a trademark Pheromone User Interface (PUI). It keeps changing - it was originally color coded for fast access, but more information is always found that breaks the coding. I’ll show you the simple B&W version printed on the inhouse chemical resistant labels.

You get the mcg in a little box (looks more like a speed limit sign on these) so you can rapidly grab the right strength bottle for your mix. The full PUI as it was meant to be printed professionally, though, also has a code for ANOL, a color strip and other fast visual cues.>

I like this idea a lot. Was thinking for a long time of just buying colored stickers, the circle ones.

<<<There’s also an inhouse ExperiMone label for the exact same bottle Raw Power is in, an ExperiMone “Oil” series. It’ll be vastly more discreet than Raw Power… very similar to the Alpha Nol label you see.>>

I like that. I just hope you can keep track of all your inventory. The offerings are vast. But because of the different crowds, it’s entirely appropriate to do different labels. Hopefully you will be able to push the bad products off the market, in every segment of it.

Now we’re trying a different approaching, and keeping ugly ExperiMone internally (which is actually better, as we can control costs better on the most expensive new pheromones). We’ll also be developing other labels to reach other segments of the potential market.

***<<<If you’ve ever read people trying to share mixes using the current spec of consumer grade product, you’ll understand why I’m in a rush to replace outdated product like this. It keeps pheromone technology in the dark ages.

Right now, it’s like people share recipes for brownies, and one person ends up coming out as a moisture free cookie that ends up tasting like an old banana, and another person gets a green slime cake! Recipes with a half drop Primal, 3 dabs this, and 8.5 inches of that just don’t translate, because nothing is dosed… and even the application tools differ.

I notice that many people use droppers on normal products. All different droppers (which produce different drop sizes!). It’s like bakers all having things they call “teaspoons” which aren’t really standardized teaspoons. Even just having the same dropper makes a huge difference in terms of mix translation.
>>>***

Having the experimone kit, it’s nice to be able to just finally start being able to get consistent doses. And, I’m seeing consistent results along with that. Totally moves things out of the dark ages. And certainly will fuel a great deal of acquired knowledge.

<<<Oh, what I’ve would’ve dosed to have dosed products, and mix portability! All my suggestions fell on manufacturers ears. It’s not like I didn’t contact a couple of them. Some were quite rude.>>

Yes, I soon learned that the manufactuers and retailers don’t include the users in the product developing process, and thus come up with problematic products that we have no choice to buy because there are no other alternatives (until now). Quite annoying too that a lot of people who don’t use or know a damn thing about pheromones control the industry. And they aren’t willing to listen. That’s pissed me off. Oh, but you guys listen. That’s partly why it’s great for all of us to have your organization around.

***<<<So, anyway, while a dosed system like this it may reduce unnecessary purchases a bit, what it will do is make for rich, intelligent conversation. It will DRASTICALLY reduce confusion, and give a whole new level of insight to those “in the field”. Pheromone related forums will undergo their first make-over, their first renaissance.

“Help” will come faster than ever.

This truly gives science to the people, and can help spur a revolution in phero mixology. If the overall plan works well, it will also allow simple pheromone dabblers to become full fledged pheromone enthusiastics, without having to ditch the pretty product that sucks 'em in. (remember, Raw Power is ExperiMone - just a different UI)>>>>

Bottom line is that you have to make something that is complex – so many different pheromones and concentration choices – simple enough for people to know what they need to buy rather than run with fear. As long as everything gets in the hands of of people, then what you say in the above quote will be true. I’ve always marveled at the fact that we still haven’t mastered what the relationship should be between the big three pheromones for your average user in the average situation where attracton is a goal. Right now, I don’t think we have a clue. AE is vasty different than Perception, yet both have their supporters. AE doesn’t work for me. Works for older guys. But works great for some younger guys too.

What you are doing - delivering productz where people get consistent doses and consistently know how much mcg is in each dose – will help us form ratios that are far more detailed and aren’t in intervals of 4:2:1 but rather 45:27:14. Far more precise. Data will be able to be gathered and analyzed. Unlike six years of LS bullshit.

<<< And replace APC (the low end product that I think people buy as a novelty and/or a cheap “test”) with something that actually delivers a little better.>>>

The double-strength claim is so illegal. Even though they cut back on the -none amount (used to he higher than it is now), I do give them credit for delivering a scent that seems to be popular.

***<<<OH! I KNOW! Not only that… but I can have the bottle wear a little bit of synthetic hair… some chest hair in the center.>>>

So much for discreet! Now that would stand out.

***<<<I’ve always wondered why gross looking products seem to succeed. I think it must be because you’re either really in tune with it, or you can view it as amusing…>>

They probably don’t succeed because they are gross looking. Perhaps you’re just more prone to noticing tangents or exceptions (wow, that gross product succeeded!) so it seems like they are succeeding a lot more often than they actually are.

10

I like LC, in part, for what they don’t say.

When you really don’t know, don’t say it. Or say that it’s a guess. Or prefix it with a ‘may’. Let people know it’s often this way, and sometimes isn’t. You know, the way you’d talk to a friend. You might talk excitedly about something, but ultimately you let them know the ‘real scoop’ so a product can actually work well for them.

Most of the LC’s instructions are really transmitted from user to user (the modus being, dabs are best), whereas the Primal sales letters act more like a user’s guide. If you review it sometime, you’ll be shocked at what you see.

It’s like it’s from a friend that secretly hates you, you just don’t know it yet.

They also had some analyses up on the net awhile back, showing that products like Realm contained androstenone. This is from a lab up in Canada. We decided to test them out. They couldn’t even weigh things properly, much less test for active product. They don’t have the columns and other equipment necessary to process androgens!

I have no idea how they got that dribble signed off.

I’m of the opinion that you don’t have to make things up to sell pheromones. They actually work, and many produce innumerable benefits. Yet most of these companies make everything up A to Z.

I’d be worried about libel, if only they weren’t so obviously guilty of fraud. I’m almost positive the first amendment protects my right to speak out against the criminal. Also, I’ve had harm come to me when I used some other manufacturers products in my pre-industry days, and I’m pretty sure I can talk about that. (maybe you’d know more about all this, since you write?)

Exactly.

Hey, if you don’t know all the effects yet, it’s no crime…

but to tell people, with authority, how much your buddies and co-workers are going to love you for an androstenone od? Well…

Right on. It’s raw. Aggressive. It’s domination, but by force.

It’s also not a “top of the food” chain pheromone when used by itself, despite being “dominant”.

I guarantee you that an A314 man is a -none man’s employer. Maybe even ruler (despite the fact that his high -none subordinate may get more “tail!” :wink:).

If you think it terms of Alpha for -none, you are indeeding thinking in a way tht doesn’t service you. To me, it’s only a part of what being alpha is all about. A true alpha to me isn’t aggressive and unstable.

Worse, with the mindset that -none = alpha, you might think “You can never be too alpha”, and thus “I can never apply too much of the androstenone pheromone” No true.

Actually, that’s not true about anything. There’s a minimimum and a maximum zone where something is beneficial with ANYTHING. Including helpful, supposedly “harmless” water.

Something I should include in all sales material (so it really gets out there), is the fact that the Poison Control center has been involved in accidental homicide, when they don’t qualify how much water you should drink when posioned.

Some people take the recommendation to “drink water” when posioned too far. A mere 3 to 4 gallons ingested in a short period of time, and their osmotic balance is all screwed up. They dilute their serum levels of electrolytes (sodium). They get cascading inflammation, the brain swells, the heart and breathing stops. They die. Painfully.

This is called hyponatremia.

I once learned quite awhile ago, “Primum non nocere”. “First, do no harm”.

A similar sentiment is part of the hippocratic oath.

Of course, as mentioned above, everything can be harmful, depending on dose. Even we, as healthy people, are dying… very very slowly.

You can really only try earnestly to do no harm, and to communicate how to avoid harm.

I think it’s just important to communicate honestly. Let people know about the ups and downs.

I’ve actually created an obnoxious, less than wonderful (to me) mix recently, but I named it properly. The negative will actually be a positive to some. So be it, they can have it.

There should be a rule like:

First, be honest.

Because everyone wants something, this causes no economic harm.

You don’t have to push the wrong things into people hands. The saying “one person’s trash is another person’s treasure” is 100% true.

Let people know what something actually does (as best as you can; with newer pheromones, you don’t know everything yet - so say so!), and you’ll still have interest. You’ll have the right people buying it, instead of the wrong people. No big deal.

In fact, that’s the best long term strategy, to me.

I’ll get to your other points soon.

Thanks for dialoguing with me.

11

The only reason I use APC is for the cover scent, because women seem to love it. I don’t buy it for it’s minute traces of Anone. Do you guys know what the secret ingredient in TE and NPA are? I figured lab technicians would know and I wonder if your company has tried to duplicate that in any of your products?

12

Great idea Cloud9 I was thinking the same thing just the other day!

The Lacroy secret ingredients seem to make their A-none rich formulas (TE/m and NPA/m) more sexual and aggressive in the nature of hits than straight A-none. I would really love to get my hands on a Lacroy male secret ingredients additive and see what it would do with ‘comfort’ mones such as -Nol or -dienone for example…

Maybe Androtics could put something like this out WITHOUT any A-none…

Visionary

13

I was hoping they would make an additive like that as well, but I believe it was one of the companies members that said that they don’t want to reverse engineer LaCroy’s products. They also said LaCroy is one of the few companies they respect. What the heck is this mystery ingredient? maybe it’s monkey urine.

14

It’s a typical attractive scent with oriental leanings (at least it was when I last used it), and that’s exactly what to use it for.

Where APC deserves a punch in the nose is how it’s advertised.

I think I mentioned elsewhere on the forum how if they sold it as a cheap attractive scent, that’d be good… but they don’t. They advertise it as a powerful pheromone product, and fill people’s heads with tons of lies and myths about what pheromones do, how they get “killed”, all kinds of nonsense.

They’re bad for this industry and for users.

The stuff inside the bottle does smell nice, and should be sold as such. “Nice smelling stuff that the ladies are likely to enjoy”. Probably more intense than that and more Madison Avenue-esque, but that’s what it boils down to, and that’s what it’s advertising should reflect. They go beyond honest description, and well into the redzone of lies.

Analyzing for unknowns is very high end. Looking for knowns is far easier. Neither is really a job for most lab techs, especially when it comes to androgen chemistry.

We have had some other product analyzed, but, when it comes to LaCroy, it’s not a job for us.

I understand you wanting the secret ingredients seperate, but we’re not going to reverse engineer anything from LaCroy. They’re an honest company with good product.

If we discover their secret ingredients through independent research, fine, but I don’t feel it’s ethical for me to directly infringe on good companies that serve the industry and do right by consumers. It’s been done to us, and I don’t like it.

I’d rather work with companies like LaCroy, than against them.

15

When it comes to a rare company like LaCroy, I’d do that if it compensates them (or if we discover the “secret ingredients” independently). It’s good to have companies like this in the game, pushing technology further.

We’ve moved into a network economy. You should never try to destroy other good parts of the network, but instead, support them (or at least leave them alone).

You won’t believe the number of consumers we’re steered towards “our competition” in the past when we honestly felt they could serve them better at that time.

GOOD competition is good for everyone, ad LaCroy are good in my book until I see compelling evidence that says otherwise.

Even Google works with Yahoo, directly and indirectly, even they sell competing products. It’s coopetition.

I only rant against the phony baloneys (there are many). The products to target are ones like Primal and APC, and companies that create myths and fodder, or advertisements that intentionally lie. (not knowing is one thing, lying is quite another)

16

thanks for the post. I think a lot of the experienced users and people that have developed pheromone products speculate or hint at that the “secret ingredient” in te/npa is Androstedienone(A1). guess we want know for sure for some time. I think it’s great that a company like yourselves have improved upon crappy instant OD products like Primal Instinct/men. the fact that we know how much mcg of Anone we are getting per drop is highly valuable to the veteran or expert pheromone user. Also making it mixable with other products is great too.

quick question…will APC’s oil carrier negatively affect the effects of AA314? I wear a combonation of AE/m+AA314 and then I put APC 2-3 drops over that..just wondering if the oil carrier will hurt the effects of AA314? thanks..AA314 is the best phero product.

17

Thank you.

Besides ExperiMone, there are more Smart Dosed Pheromones on the way.

Many have been designed for awhile (almost since we began), some are new, but we never committed to putting them into production. We are now. We’ll see how they fly.

No. It shouldn’t hurt the efficacy of A314 one bit.

However, many perfume ingredients do act as fixatives, slowing the release of molecules they mix with. That can be a good thing, or bad. You just have to be aware of it.

With A314, you may need to use a little more, if anything, because A314 is already in a slow release oil base. You may be able to use an extra drop of A314 when used with any oil based fragrance to have the same “pheromonal strength”. The upside is, more time between re-applications.

On the other hand, many commercial spray colognes in alcohol act to enhance both fixation and diffusion - metered release, with a wider sillage (vapor trail).

You usually have to apply more often in this case, but the effects on others are more obvious. Some of the propriety diffusion technology the big parfum developers really get the pheromone molecules out there. Impressive.

We’ve licensed a few colognes from the most significant commercial perfumer, and are evaluating more. I think I get another 8-10 samples today.

18

Thats good to hear I’m not messing up AA314 effects..I am indeed getting all the effects listed in your product descriptions..In fact I got these and wrote them down before I even saw your website over at love-scent so it’s not placebo. I was thinking of adding another drop of AA314..I’m 22 yrs old btw, caucasion, 5’11’, 150lbs, attractive) pretty sure I produce a fair amount of Anone on my own, because I seem to get better results with less Anone(2 drops AE better results than 3)…but at the same time I’m layed back and not too aggressive.

19

Oh yeah forgot to mention I talked to Jasmine about letting her use my nice testimonials for your ads. She said she’ll send me one of your new experimone 10mcg Androstedienone spray bottles. Something I hear pretty much improves any mix..just hope it doesn’t put me in a depressed mood like I know it can for men. You guys think about making something like AlterEgo?..It would be easy to make similar ratios and come up with your own scent…something like APC’s…MAN that would be a killer product!! <APC scent meets AE/m pheromones>…considering this is top seller at love-scent..might do well for you guys too.

20

I don’t know if I would target AE. I’m not sure what that company is up to. Obviously they copied my CTTM product (after first trashing it publicly - strange move), and they do create pheromonal myths, so I suppose it would be justified. (even still, I wouldn’t view them as bad as APC, I don’t think - even with their myths, their products do at least contain pheromones, and they do have happy customers)

Even justified, I really don’t want to stoop anybody else’s level and copy outright. I can create my own mixes just fine.

On top of that, AE is not what I would call a miraculous mix. While I know it has largenumbers of fans, it never personally impressed me (I’ve tried just about everything out the past 10 years or so, and also let infinite male friends try everything out over time).

I’m wondering if it’s popular more out of inertia, or even from pheromonal myths this company creates to set itself apart. Some sort of pseudo-science placebo effect that you get when spoken to with authority, even if it’s more of a decoy for an authority, than an authority itself.

Also, you gotta realize, top sellers on most sites are for all time, not this week, or this month. On the site you use, top sellers are mediated by primacy (what came first), and it’s actually biased against recency. There’s other top sellers, and you won’t know it.

Put another way - the top sellers there will always be the top sellers, because the list is never reset, even as new product comes down the pipeline.

If you can tell me what you like about AE, what it does for you, I’d rather design my own formula around the perceived effect, than to simply duplicate.

Also, I don’t know where to get an APC like scent. I do have some refreshing male scents (Cool Water/Hugo like), though, direct from the perfumers who make most of the $65 to $200 colognes you see at the department store. I’m also seeking out new French perfumers.

Do you like that APC is an oil?

I like sprays and oils both, really, but for different things: oils for long lasting, low key effects, and sprays for their convenience and speed at delivering effects. Sprays are really best for diffusion and coverage.

For instance, I like wearing A314 as a slow release oil, then layering with sprays for special effects. If I was going to be out all day and night, I’d use all oils.