rocksalt in a shotgun shell… would it bust under compression… would that not turn acidic under compression and heat?
not that I know of. melting point is 800 degrees, and once its out of the muzzle flash, I would guess it just re-crystallizes. the farmers around here used the rock salt threat all the time to keep their daughters safe, hehe. non-lethal, but painful. just use less grains.
now a stack of dimes fits into a shotgun barrel just fine… and I’ve been threatened with that by my father in law.(at the time, I wasn’t married).
You have to remember that the US, like Australia, was founded by criminals, malcontents and cultists. Look at this way, it in today’s view, the Pilgrims would have been a cult like Jonestown (Jim Jones).
Oh nonsense Jim! Jim Jones was a great guy who was misunderstood. If that meddling congressman didn’t come around snooping everything would have been just fine.
Next you’re going to try and persuade us that Joe Stalin was not a nice guy either.
No, no, Joe was fine, it was Lenin that was a problem.
Lenin was OK right up until he met Yoko 
GO MONTANA!
ATV :The USA state of Montana has signed into power a revolutionary gun law
**The USA state of Montana has signed into power a revolutionary gun law
**Panama Legal
I mean REVOLUTIONARY. The State of Montana has defied the federal government and their gun laws. This will prompt a showdown between the federal government and the State of Montana. The federal government fears citizens owning guns. They try to curtail what types of guns they can own. The gun control laws all have one common goal – confiscation of privately owned firearms.
Montana has gone beyond drawing a line in the sand. They have challenged the Federal Government. The fed now either takes them on and risks them saying the federal agents have no right to violate their state gun laws and arrest the federal agents that try to enforce the federal firearms acts. This will be a world-class event to watch. Montana could go to voting for secession from the union, which is really throwing the gauntlet in Obamas face. If the federal government does nothing they lose face. Gotta love it.
Important Points – If guns and ammunition are manufactured inside the State of Montana for sale and use inside that state then the federal firearms laws have no applicability since the federal government only has the power to control commerce across state lines. Montana has the law on their side. Since when did the USA start following their own laws especially the constitution of the USA, the very document that empowers the USA.
Silencers made in Montana and sold in Montana would be fully legal and not registered. As a note silencers were first used before the 007 movies as a device to enable one to hunt without disturbing neighbors and scaring game. They were also useful as devices to control noise when practicing so as to not disturb the neighbors.
Silencers work best with a bolt-action rifle. There is a long barrel and the chamber is closed tight so as to direct all the gases though the silencer at the tip of the barrel. Semi-auto pistols and revolvers do not really muffle the sound very well except on the silver screen. The revolvers bleed gas out with the sound all over the place. The semi-auto pistols bleed the gases out when the slide recoils back.
Silencers are maybe nice for snipers picking off enemy soldiers even though they reduce velocity but not very practical for hit men shooting pistols in crowded places. Silencers were useful tools for gun enthusiasts and hunters.
There would be no firearm registration, serial numbers, criminal records check, waiting periods or paperwork required. So in a short period of time there would be millions and millions of unregistered untraceable guns in Montana. Way to go Montana.
Discussion – Let us see what Obama does. If he hits Montana hard they will probably vote to secede from the USA. The governor of Texas has already been refusing Federal money because he does not want to agree to the conditions that go with it and he has been saying secession is a right they have as sort of a threat. Things are no longer the same with the USA. Do not be deceived by Obama acting as if all is the same, it is not.
Text of the New Law
HOUSE BILL NO. 246
INTRODUCED BY J. BONIEK, BENNETT, BUTCHER, CURTISS, RANDALL, WARBURTON
AN ACT EXEMPTING FROM FEDERAL REGULATION UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES A FIREARM, A FIREARM ACCESSORY, OR AMMUNITION MANUFACTURED AND RETAINED IN MONTANA; AND PROVIDING AN APPLICABILITY DATE.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MONTANA:
Section 1. Short title. [Sections 1 through 6] may be cited as the “Montana Firearms Freedom Act”.
Section 2. Legislative declarations of authority. The legislature declares that the authority for [sections 1 through 6] is the following:
(1) The 10th amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the federal government elsewhere in the constitution and reserves to the state and people of Montana certain powers as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those powers is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.
(2) The ninth amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the people rights not granted in the constitution and reserves to the people of Montana certain rights, as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those rights is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.
(3) The regulation of intrastate commerce is vested in the states under the 9th and 10th amendments to the United States constitution, particularly if not expressly preempted by federal law. Congress has not expressly preempted state regulation of intrastate commerce pertaining to the manufacture on an intrastate basis of firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition.
(4) The second amendment to the United States constitution reserves to the people the right to keep and bear arms as that right was understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889, and the guaranty of the right is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.
(5) Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution clearly secures to Montana citizens, and prohibits government interference with, the right of individual Montana citizens to keep and bear arms. This constitutional protection is unchanged from the 1889 Montana constitution, which was approved by congress and the people of Montana, and the right exists, as it was understood at the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.
Section 3. Definitions. As used in [sections 1 through 6], the following definitions apply:
(1) “Borders of Montana” means the boundaries of Montana described in Article I, section 1, of the 1889 Montana constitution.
(2) “Firearms accessories” means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination.
(3) “Generic and insignificant parts” includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins.
(4) “Manufactured” means that a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition has been created from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials.
Section 4. Prohibitions. A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Montana and that remains within the borders of Montana is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Montana from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state. Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Montana and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Montana does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation. It is declared by the legislature that basic materials, such as unmachined steel and unshaped wood, are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition and are not subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition. The authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition made in Montana from those materials. Firearms accessories that are imported into Montana from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in Montana.
Section 5. Exceptions. [Section 4] does not apply to:
(1) A firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;
(2) A firearm that has a bore diameter greater than 1 1/2 inches and that uses smokeless powder, not black powder, as a propellant;
(3) ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or
(4) a firearm that discharges two or more projectiles with one activation of the trigger or other firing device.
Section 6. Marketing of firearms. A firearm manufactured or sold in Montana under [sections 1 through 6] must have the words “Made in Montana” clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver or frame.
Section 7. Codification instruction. [Sections 1 through 6] are intended to be codified as an integral part of Title 30, and the provisions of Title 30 apply to [sections 1 through 6].
Section 8. Applicability. [This act] applies to firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition that are manufactured, as defined in [section 3], and retained in Montana after October 1, 2009.
Read More http://www.panamalaw.org/montana_governor_signs_new_gun_law.html
I still have a scar on my forearm from where the gamekeeper caught me and my friends poaching his trout over 20 years ago! Rocksalt stings, believe me and I learnt a valuable lesson, unfortunately it was not to stop poaching the trout, just make damn sure I didn’t get seen doing it
Just looking through MiD’s post about Montana and I have spotted something that may highlight the difference between our gun cultures. In the UK, a firearm is anything that discharges a solid object by way of an expanding gas, in the US, it has to be a chemical explosion. As such, in the UK, high powered air rifles are classed as firearms, as is CS gas spray. Yep you read it right, we can’t even legally carry mace.
Well, THERES’S your problem.
How about a quote from Mugattu in Zoolander. “Doesn’t anyone else see this? I feel like I’m taking crazt pills!”
Oh believe me, I take CNN with an entire salt mine. Damn a single grain. 
. I’ll even cross check their weather reports with TWC and my local news just to make sure they’re not bullshitting me.
-D4
Damn, if you’re like that with CNN, Fox “News” must be totally unwatchable.
I’ll be honest. There is a political bias in me that would choose Fox over CNN if I really had to choose between the two. Fox, however, isn’t without fault, so they’re not my primary news source. Actually, I don’t have one as such. I just check a site, crosscheck with another site, read a paper, catch something on TV and then try to decipher what’s most useful to me and my news needs. Not that I have many news needs. Sure, I’d like to know if Iran or N.Korea is about to start lobbing ballistic missiles at us, but I don’t really care much about domestic sensationalist crap like the Drew Peterson case, or the yearly missing spring break teens-- both meaningful to those involved, but meaningless to me since there’s nothing I can do to affect either case.
-D4
Do like I do and not watch the news at all anymore. Positive vibes
Heresy like this could decimate America’s medical industrial complex. Bad Steve. Baaaad baaaad Steve.
A friend of mine turned me on to that several years ago. It really works but you can’t go back. Even 2 minutes of a newscast now triggers extreme irritation. It’s like watching TASS.
I am the same way. Multiple news feeds keeping in mind the political slat of each. Which is kinda easy. Every TV news channel pretty much veers left except for Fox.
Online it is a different story. Well not about what direction the primaries veer but there are a lot more choices online. Just have to be extra careful online.
Online CNN and Fox have different strengths and weaknesses.
I too do a lot of cross-referencing.
Oh for the good old days when not every newscaster was a wannabe editorialist…
However, I think the point of my initial post referencing CNN was lost. It could be any news source. I was referring to the feeling I get every time I hear, see, or read something mindboggling like charging an elementary school kid with sexual assault just because he gave a classmate a peck on the cheek, or how a homeowner can be sued by a burglar if said crook hurts himself on his victim’s property. Those things that, little by little, serve to chip away at one’s hope for the future of civilization.
-D4
Yes, you are right and I THINK that’s what Steve meant too. And me, though I didn’t explain it well.
CNN and Fox et al. 24 hour news channels have their problems but local news feeds and national 1/2 hour to 1 hour news are worse. They need to pack in as much bad news and overhype it to attract viewers and sell advertising.
If the coverage seems to have worsened over the years it is because it has worsened. With more competition from hundreds of different media streams their newscasts have become increasingly hysterical. Add in shoddy reporting, toeing the party line and an general unwillingness to pursue many important stories and it becomes very depressing.
Then at the end of the newscast they throw one little human interest feel good story to let you know the world hasn’t ended yet and you can tune in tomorrow.
I will say one thing for large media though. Only a large media outlet with deep enough pockets to pay for lawyers could have got as far into the Kwame Killpatrick text message scandal as The Detroit Free Press did. If more media outlets did that kind of reporting I might tune in more. I still don’t think they got to the bottom of it or Tamara Green’s death but they got further than internet bloggers could.
hahaha, maybe they’ll ban counterstrike and similar computer games. But just FYI, it is very possible to die from paintballing. It’s fun but if you get idiot players not following rules, safeties not on, firing hot, etc… I tend to leave the field. Not going to risk my well being cause a few players don’t care about their own safety or others around them.
Or do like I did and throw out the stupid TV completely! Positive vibes galore!!