Exactly - before we are going completely havoc here 
we should wait for Michael or Jas (if she’s around) to chime in and tell us if there ever have been placebos in the test packs! Until now it’s only rumours - and for me rumours are not enough to question Androtics integrity!
I heard there was a guy who found the 11th ingredient to KFC’s chicken!
LMFAO 
I’ve seen less conspiracy theories in the most heated area 51 debates. :pFor the record, it does exist. Location? Between 50 and 52. Now you know. Now I have to hide!!!
Then I think people are using the terminology placebo wrong
when i hear the word placebo I think of it in drug trials, that is what comes to mind
In drug trials I think of you have X number of patients and X number of patients are given the real drug while Y number are given a placebo or just sugar pill to me that is placebo
So when Tisha and catlord are using placebo i was referring to that
Now if what you are saying Steve, then that is 100% what I thought they were doing…and that should not even be called a placebo. That should just be called a variation. Because you are still getting pheros, just a totally different formula.
My biggest worry is exactly what you said was getting alcohol and a scent and I do not want to pay for that.
So i think the problem here is people using the wrong terminology if what you said is accurate and I hope you are right.
Now back to the other issues at hand, dissapearing posts regarding secret ingredients, why jasmin still will never come through with her promises of releasing the forumulas when she promises time and time again. IMO if you are not going to follow through, why bother saying it in the first place?
To me it is like a politician empty promises.
Anyway I will wait for Michael or Jasmin I am just unhappy how things have been going and would like to see this resolved once and for all
so what? even if placebos were used, im asking myself this important question,
"what has been the overall value of many of the products on here on my life? has it transformed it? has it made it better? have i discovered a new interesting hobby? do i feel more confident with women now? am i attracting more women because of some of the products on here? " all the answers r YES, they r extremely useful.
So im looking at the overall picture of the positive affects Androtics products have had on my life over a 3 year period, products like Ammo that have landed me hundreds of dates that i didnt get before pheromone use, so yes because of the positives ive experienced, then im willing to accept possible placebo’s in test packs.
but cant think of any MX ive used where i didnt get a reaction from one of them.
im now thinking of chemical romance mx148 to mx152…every one had some sort of reaction IMO, whether good or bad…so i dont believe there were any placebos in this test pack. mx113-mx116 Akuto test pack - havent they all been sold individually? so doubt there were placebos in that test pack. i tried mx113 and it definately had affects, Snoopyace reports nice results from 115/116…personally, 149/150/152 were 3 of the best products ever tried, so ill take the benefits even if 151 had no effect [not that i know this either way as the bottle leaked before testing]…
and of course the old Androsterone MX’s 102-105…all testers reported effects though very minimal data on mx104, yet it is sold seperately…Liquid Sunshine series 136-140, cant think of any placebo in that either.
so im really looking at the overall picture here that many Androtics products have had a very positive effect on my life, so arent too phased if 1 out of 5 mixes in a test pack turns out to be a placebo, whic i still cant find an example of. id prefer these products in my life than out. this is such a unique community i really cant imagine anything too dodgy going on.
do the panties really catch on fire? wow
Failure To Deliver.
There is not much integrity left anymore.
We have heard from them over and over and over again.
They both drag us around in very beautiful artistic circles. We get alot of lame, but creative, excuses. A very few plans. And practically never anything that resolves the excuses or produces results from the plans.
They have both proven themselves repeatedly unable to make strategic decisions or plan and execute projects. In short, they are consistently incapable of delivering results.
There is appearently no effective board of directors or they would have been demanding results, and kicking their ass up and down the street over the lack of them, for a very long time now.
So the results we end up with are that Catlord has been jacked around on producing his mixes for years now. On the most basic women’s product, copulins, they have refused to develop (or were incapable of developing) or buy (they have never made a credible offer to Diane, nor have they purchased cops from any other commercial source) in spite of the repeated promises made to our women. Now the foundation, the most basic of men’s products, A314, is somehow beyond their ability to manufacture.
It has reached the point where if you expect more than excuses and promises from Androtics, you will be left disappointed.
All of you know that I love this place and the people here as much as anyone. If I disappear from here, you will know that I have been forced out. I will not voluntarily leave this community.
But from now on, my pheromones will come from, and my money will go to, someplace else.
Chillout … the MX series test packs and individual MX’s are what they are TEST to gather information from users in hope to find constancy in it’s effect and possible commercial product release. Maybe they should put a supper potent shine in each test pack to give the user a good vibe about themselves. Androtics knows shine works and it’s effect … could use this as a placebo. Testing this stuff is supposed to be fun; if you have doubts stick to the commercial products.
a placebo can be anything that is not the actual product.
I don’t get why everyone is crying over placebos. The MX test packs are almost always cheaper than an individual bottle of a ToGo MX when generally its a new mix and takes more work AND money to produce. So right off the bat, they’re probably losing money on giving you all these NEW TEST MIXES at discount prices. You’re complaining how one of them MIGHT be a placebo? What is the point of RESEARCH if YOU ARE TOLD THERE IS A PLACEBO? You have been told it is a test PACK. And they’re probably cheaper because there might be a placebo? They went through all this hard work to give you guys an experimental TEST PACK TO TEST. Look at the prices and the amount of ToGos they give you. Prices always come out to usually at least ONE FREE BOTTLE. Maybe that price drop/free bottle(s) could be due to the fact that there may be a placebo? Even if it was a true placebo in the sense of the word, you’re getting it for free.
There are 3 test packs out right now.
Womens test pack has SIX bottles for 40 dollars reporting status. that’s 50 dollars off if you were to buy each one separately.
The two other ones are 4 bottles each at 30 dollars each, meaning you get 30 dollars off, the cost of TWO ToGos.
They’re giving you GREAT prices on these mixes so they can find out WHAT REALLY WORKS, so if they do turn out to be great mixes, they can be sure of it.
placebos are an important part in the figuring out of what works.
alot of people HERE look for similar reaction to the next guy,
and without a placebo i would think the posts were a regurgitation of what the mind remembers to look for.
WITH THAT SAID,
another important thing is addressing issues face-on, not in a roundabout skirting the issue way.
I look forward to seeing how this is handled.
LOL - thanks for brightening up my day with that..
Did somebody call for the WAAMBULANCE?
.______@@_
|---------------__
| WAAMBULANCE |
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‘’‘’‘‘O’’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘O’‘’’
Sorry, couldn’t resist… I’m really finding it hard to see what the big deal is..
Some people are upset that there may or may not be a placebo in a “test” mix that they are getting cheaper than it should be.
Normally this pack would be $79.95, but we’ll give ya one free… so it’s just the cost of 3, at 59.95.
So even if one was a placebo its the free one.
the big deal is that alot of money is spent on this stuff, not by YOU but by others.
people want to know what they are paying for, and i think its important to know.
integrity comes into question when its silent around questions.
FTR, i dont believe for a second androtics is losing money on this.
catlords mix has gotten so much attention, that anyone would be silly to not grab it up.
it requires no advertising because of his 1000+ post thread.
he created it
he advertised it HIMSELF
he has a demand for it
all androtics has to do to make money is make it… like the rest of the stuff they make.
where is the extra cost again???
I’m sure that it is really a matter of my own personal bias.
You see, I come from a manufacturing / engineering background in major corporations. It has been firmly impressed on me that if you cannot plan and execute projects, if you cannot consistently produce a reliable product in the quantities, and on the schedule, necessary to satisfy the customers needs, then you will cease to exist. Your job will cease to exsist. That company will cease to exsist. Eventually the community around those mills and factories will cease to exsist.
In business, delivering results, producing a product, is effectively like breathing.
Breathing is not such a big deal. … Is it?
Kind of my thoughts. I ALWAYS “THOUGHT” a test pack was a little more of this, a little less of that, some of this with -none, some of that with -nol, etc. etc. etc.
I don’t know … it’s getting confusing, or are you guys confusing me???
How did this all get started!? 
What…ever! Luvzya anywho!
The BEST advice on this matter!
best ones !!!
I dont know why people are so upset by this.
EVEN if you get a placebo(or whatever you like to call it) YOU are not Paying for it !
and how did we all got this far discussing something so unimportant?
I have to say… I am really surprised at some of the responses you all have given.
The situation is indeed a complex one, in many ways and at many levels. Let’s hope that time shows definitively that neither I, nor anyone else is being treated unfairly in any way.
As to the matter of the “secret ingredient”… it shouldn’t be too terribly difficult to figure out. But the formula is a secret, so I’m not tellin.
As for the placebo thing… placebos can be, as was said, anything that is not a part of the “series”. Pheromones or not. And… have any of you ever thought that, as was stated - knowing that there is a placebo would alter the results of the test?
Let me tell you what happened during my private blind testing. Because people expected a placebo (even though some of them did not get one at all), I got all kinds of screwy results. One person who shall remain nameless, was using PS and getting all the results, but believed he had a placebo because it was not doing hat he expected. His expectations were not only unreasonable (brought about perhaps by his literalness [no, their panties will not always spontaneously ignite] and his lack of self awareness. He had no idea what he was observing, or what to do with it. But because he knew there MIGHT be a placebo in the pack, he decided it was a placebo, and proceeded to waste what I am told is about $150 worth of pheromones carelessly and without trying to get results once he decided that.
Then there was someone else who tried them, and he didn’t get the results everyone else was getting because his subject was apparently upset with him, due to miscommunication. People, women are not lower order animals… you cannot take away their ability to think and respond beyond the brainstem simply by exposing them to pheromones, no matter how amazing the mix is. Panty Scorcher does a damned good job in that area, under the right circumstances, but a woman who has closed you off because of serious mis-communication and clashing personality and frustration… isn’t going to respond.
I sent out almost seven ounces of Panty Scorcher. You know what I have gotten back? I had my original financier ditch me when he got a sample of one of the different formulas I was testing because it didn’t do the same thing as the other one he had tested. NO clue as to the fact that different means different, and we are trying to figure out what to use, not get laid. I have only a few testers who have given me reports consistently and with good observation. And the rest? I have not heard from some of them AT ALL. So here’s what I know from this experience:
- Giving free test packs makes people think they’re worthless - and act accordingly.
- Telling people there might be a placebo can have the same sort of damaging effect on a test as not having a placebo, but getting the placebo effect from expectations.
- Some people will say anything to get what they want.
- Most people don’t care about the test, they just want to get laid.
- The expectations can override everything else.
- People who don’t know anything about pheromones will find a way to screw up the test.
Now I have enough reports to know I have something special here… but not enough to know much more than that. So I figured I would have Androtics release it as an MX and then all of you could test it. But I wanted the MX pack released without anyone being told what it was, so we would not be back to “expectations are screwing up the test”. Sigh.
As for Steve’s comments… really, Steve? Not scientific? Just because I’m not doing top end research, and I don’t know what the Ps and Ts are composed of, doesn’t mean that the scientific method is not still useful for learning about the mixes. I want to know what the TRUTH is about what PS does… just like you all do. Blind testing and placebos are a good way to get closer to that. Or so I thought…
Denec, I still disagree with you. I don’t see anything wrong with having the occasional placebo from a testing situation. I think Steve cleared the matter up definitively, but still.
and the rest, hell, I forgot what I was going to say.
oh some of this is highly insulting
and a lot of broad generalizations
on androtics money, not on mine, in fact no other company makes you pay to beta test in the first place
as for the rest I will let others handle
i am still waitin for Michael or Jasmin to chime in, wonder why they are waiting so long
Because most people look down at the ground in front of them instead looking ahead and being aware of the environment around them.
This placebo BS is a red herring that will be used to distract you from, and minimize, the real issue at hand.
Why does this company refuse to produce Catlords mixes? Or are they incapable of it? In either case, the end result is the same.
One of our leading citizens, one of our most senior testers, one of the most experienced pheromone users on the planet, has used his own time, money, and creativity (along with a legendary mix calculator the he developed) to create a mix that is his master work. A mix the likes of which we may never see again. A mix that may well equal the legendary Pheroproof that this company has the rights to produce, but which has been left to wither.
After years of dicussions, and promises,and delays, our friend Catlord has been denied again. This time with the thread he used to document his trials deleted.
And all of this is happening as a part of a much larger, consistent, systemic inability of this company to develop, deploy, and manufacture their most basic products. Sadly, they seem to have the greatest problems with the products that have the highest consumer demand. Among others, Pheroproof, Catlord’s mix, copulins, and now finally an inability to manufacture the bedrock, A314.
This is no small matter.
If they will not deliver the goods, then for my part, I will find someone else who can.
I am not as seasoned as some of you, but some of these responses strike me as odd. The test mixes are for TESTING. Maybe it is my newness, but I don’t look at the cost of the pack as a “per bottle” but as an overall test to LEARN about the mix and potentially provide quality feedback that might improve it or confirm its efficacy. From there it might become something like a commercial offering, but that is in the future. If that were to happen, I’d expect more of it at that point, but not when it is a test mix.
It’s like this: I pay for the opportunity to test PS. The cost gets me into the test which has 4 bottles. I personally didn’t do any work to develop the mix and as such, have no need or right to know what is in it at this point. Maybe I am an idiot, but isn’t not knowing which of the 4 is the actual PS helpful in learning the value of the actual PS formula?
I know there are a few other issues afoot here about what raw materials are available and such, but that’s over my head at this point. I’m just stating my opinion about one man’s work and how testing is a good thing.