80-90% Game, 10-20% Pheromones

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

That’s what I have been observing lately.

Today I went to school wearing SD-12, 2 sprays, neck. I didn’t notice anything until class started, and then I got a really exhuberant greeting from one of the younger girls and one of the hotter girls came in and sat next to me. Technically, I forced this, because I sat in her seat. Psychologically, people usually sit in the same place for comfort reasons, and knowing this, I sat in her seat.

During class, nothing unusual… but then people started to leave, and I moved a couple feet closer to Miss Hot Thing, just chatting with a friend on the 'net, and she’s talking away to the instructor and then after a few minutes, turns to me and asks what I think. Then the instructor gave her his advice, and again, she asked what I think. I ended up staying there with her longer than anyone else… and we had a great conversation. She asked me how to get in touch, and I reminded her she had my e-mail, but had never used it. Then I went home.

Then I drove home… 1.5 hour drive… and chatted with some friends online for a little while before I called up A, and told her I’d left my jacket there from the party the other night. She said it was there and sure, I could come over and chill. I went over at 11 (wearing 3 sprays of MX-119) and ended up staying until 3:30 am, and it was very obvious she did not want me to go - and that her boyfriend was becoming displeased. Even though they’re swingers, he was becoming jealous of all the attention being on me. That was the third time she’d seen me, and by the end of the night I had called her out on wanting to kiss me and wanting to jump my bones… both of which she admitted to. Nobody had been drinking from the time I got there except one of the guys, although she told me she’d been drinking earlier, but that was just a lame excuse for why she was being so blatant in her attraction response. That was a weak ASD attempt. She was stone cold sober. But she was being very blatantly attracted to me even in front of her boyfriend. She moved over from sitting with him to sit with me on the couch, and she was sitting closer than a friend would. She was leaning into me, also… asked me to take her somewhere (ostensibly so she could pick up dog food, but really so she could be alone with me)… and when we went to wal mart, we sat on the benches to eat and she was sitting so close to me that her hip and leg was touching mine all the way down. I stuck my hand between us to keep it warm… and it wasn’t easy to fit it. The girl was really responding to my game. (And it was a game, too. I flirt because it’s fun, and I told her that she was a lot of fun to flirt with, and that that was why I was flirting, but that seemed to only make her want me more.)

Now, here’s the interesting thing… I’ve been reading various sources of PUA info, and I find it interesting that I seem to have become rather good at triggering attraction in certain types of women. Not all, to be sure, but I see a lot of what I’m doing listed on these PUA websites, only I am not trying to do any of it. There’s no way I could ever remember all that crap. I just know what to do if I manage to find a woman I can “connect” with the right way. I guess I feel what is right somehow. It has a LOT to do with self confidence… and I have been watching how successful I am, and observing how people respond to various pheromones, and I have concluded that my results are about 80-90% game, and 10-20% pheromones.

I say this because I see what the pheromones are doing, but also, I see that they don’t make the situation, they make the opportunities better. In the end, if you’re not comfortable with yourself, confident, and displaying the values that flip her attraction switches, pheromones aren’t going to make the game for you. Now I really get it. Now I really understand.

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Are you too focused on pheromones
The Cologne Opener
2

Good point. Its just like when I talk about resisting pheremones is because it is not so much the pheremones as it is the person helping manage the relationship although pheremones do help. I believe that was pointed out by Jasmin and/or some others around in the earlier days.

3

The right pheromones, applied properly, are likenable to a (possibly strong) gust of wind as you’re trying to take off in a plane. They’ll lift you up, but if you don’t have the speed, they won’t sustain you all by themselves… except in a couple of cases that I can think of.

  1. You’re wearing “just the right mix” and she’s at “just the right time”, and there are “just the right circumstances”..
  2. You’re wearing a very attractive mix, and she can sense them, not know much else about you… and you have good circumstances.

Interestingly, I have noticed that people seem to be impressed by my presence when I’m there, and I’m being just totally comfortable… but not saying a word. It’s like they interpret this as “ubercool”, when really, I just didn’t know anyone well enough to make comment yet. I was just gathering my resources before jumping into the conversation.

Sometimes I do this “silent but ubercool” routine on purpose, and allow my pheromones to speak for me. I have had pheromones alone carry the whole game for me in some rare cases. Well, not the whole game. Body language, social proof and looks played some part I’m sure. But the body language consisted of “Yeah, whatever. Got nothin to say.” and the looks, well, there are plenty more attractive than me. Social proof was, “Here I am, sitting in the middle of a club, with all these other guys.” That first time, I wasn’t even wearing pheromones.

It’s also critically important that you wear the right pheromones at the right dose and at the right time… which is difficult at best without some way of predicting results. Only practice and keen observation gets that part.

4

I’m starting to like DeAngelo’s “confidence building” type outlook over the “formula manuals” from other social gurus (yes, even Mystery and Bandler).

Plus what guy ever “read and followed” the manual anyway with anything…

5

catlord, you do and your insight is a great contribution to exactly those thoughts and I ideas I have at the moment. Thank you!

Sunny

6

Agree. Confidence is the foundation for everything.

7

You are quite welcome… and thank you for the reputation!

8

To begin with, you know of course, that I disagree with the whole metaphor of social interaction being a game, but if you were to analyze your results from the vantage point of game theory (or more accurately, decision theory) then your guesstimate concerning the effects of pheromones (10-20%) vs. “game” (80-90%) is not only a bit more palatable, but also a little more precise. I’d use the phrase “social skills” rather than “game”, but that would probably be nit-picking. I was hoping, though, that you’d revise your break-down to account for #1 and #2 above. I have a pet theory/formula, too, and it’s only slightly different from yours… the difference revolves around the right mix and timing versus incongruity/apparent contradictions.

9

Social interaction, my friend, is what you make of it. I enjoy having fun when I go out. I “play”. I do not “play women”, but rather, I “play with women”. Not all of them, as I said, but when I find one I can play with, I do. It is a game… it is entertainment for me to be playful and flirtacious and silly and have a good time with her this way. “Social skills” covers a much wider gamut of situations, in which I may or may not have the slightest amount of FUN. Therefore, to distinguish the two situations, “game” being a subset of “social skills”, I differentiate.

Furthermore, I would hardly call my conclusion a “guesstimate”, based on the amount of repetition, effort and observation that went into it. Palatability is not of concern to me, of course. I say what I believe to be true, and palatability is usually discarded as a waste of time, unless tact is useful for expressing that truth. And by your wording, (a little more precise) you at once suggest accuracy and deny it at the same time. What is accurate, then, from your point of experience?

I can go into further detail about cases 1 and 2, but I’m a bit sleep deprived, so I am not functioning at 100% mental capacity atm.

  1. You’re wearing “just the right mix” and she’s at “just the right time”, and there are “just the right circumstances”.

This one seems rather solidly put to me. If you encounter a woman (circumstance) who is at the right time in her cycle (circumstance/just the right time) to respond with a high degree of the specific response you were intending that the mix produce from exposure to the mix you are wearing (just the right mix) then you generally have her responding so powerfully to the pheromones that you have little or no work to do in achieving the goal of the mix, whatever that may be. And maybe her cycle won’t even come into play.

Example: While wearing pheromones, I have, on rare occasions, been in the right place at the right time with the right mones in the right dose to create incredible attraction responses from women (known and unknown to me) that basically brought the female in question to not only initiate, but fuel the encounter and “game” me into either an erotic or a romantic situation. Fast. Of her own and without my help. In these cases, I seemingly can do no wrong, so long as I keep my feet out of my mouth. She’s had that attraction button pressed and jammed in place, and she wants it badly enough to go get it and by Jove, get it she WILL! Of course, I happen to be a sucker for a strong, assertive woman who tells me she’s going to have me in some way. It’s not all the way to success for her, but it does get her a long way to be that ballsy.

  1. You’re wearing a very attractive mix, and she can sense them (it?), not know much else about you… and you have good circumstances.

This would apply to the “silent but ubercool” mode and also the “she’s standing nearby, but is not being noticed/acknowledged/gamed at all” situations (maybe I don’t see her, notice her, find her interesting, or choose to play with her for one reason or another), but she, based on the pheromones, my body language, social proof and looks decides on her own to strike the bait, to put it in fishing terms. This would be analogous to just letting the world go by and having Hot Babe (hopefully) just climb into your lap.

The difference here is that she’s virtually decided the outcome before you say word one. She’s so interested that it just clicks in her brain that you already are friend/lover/boyfriend/whatever. This one relies heavily on pheromone/whatever trigger and pheromone/situation/historically based assumptions on her part, not so much the other things. She sees the social proof, looks, attitude, pheromones, runs through the entire gaming scenario in her head, and based on where her imagination takes her, tada - you win! She in effect gives it to you, without ever speaking a word. This seems to happen most often (for me) with the emotionally deepest, most polar women. The type who, later on, will physically attack you for cheating when she only had a fear-based fantasy that you cheated, and forgot it was her fantasy. Not all scenarios like this involve such a woman, but when they do, she’ll usually decide she is going to have you/marry you/bed you/have children with you/grow old and die with you (or conversely she is going to kill you, you evil bastard!) and that’s what’s going to happen, dammit!

These women are often extremists, absolutists, usually very sexual, very powerful (inwardly and maybe outwardly as well), and potentially very dangerous. Scenario #2 is very rare for me, but it does happen that occasionally I’ll have some chica in a CFM outfit (Catholic schoolgirl outfits in mid winter - watch out!) stroll up and tell me we’re going back to her place for a fuck. She’s usually hotter than hell and awesome in the sack, but she ALWAYS seems to have an agenda behind her actions. Last time it happened, she wanted to get me in bed because she was pregnant and her boyfriend left, and she wanted to use me for fun and profit (get him jealous enough to come back). I didn’t know that until after she left… I refused her initial advances and tried to turn it into a relationship, and she left after a couple weeks because I wasn’t playing her game, and she wanted to be with him, obviously.

That’s not to say that everyone’s going to have negative experiences along these lines, or that all such “high pheromonal response” situations are going to be with stalkerettes/ONS bunnies, but it does bring up the good point that negative responses do also happen.

Anyway, I have long since forgotten the original of what I was talking about in my stupor. I wish I hadn’t spent so much time reading last night. C’est la vie. If you want more or further clarification, just say so and be specific.

10

Which component do you think is communicating this? Rone/A314?

Ah… I think there is an ebook to be written on this at some point. Jas mentioned on a thread elsewhere that optimal phero-enhanced game might also be subtly different.

So using Mystery’s Find Open Attract Rapport Close model, how does one need to behave differently, and which mones/doses work best at different stages?

Some unorganised and very basic thoughts on how mones change things are below. Love to hear thoughts on how we can develop this.

a) makes it easier to open, because you have already grabbed her attention. Androstenol makes you more approachable also.
b)social proof. “he’s kind of cute… hey all the other girls are looking at him too so he must be hot”. Mystery’s ‘pre-selected by women’ aspect
c) DHV just through phero-shaped perception of personality. if you had never heard of Richard Branson and he was dressed simply but he approached you in a bar you would still have a very strong initial impression. (obviously it’s in part demeanour, but pheros help).
perhaps this makes it more important to show interest at the right point. (even sans pheros I only realised quite recently that some girls are too intimidated to show interest even if they like you lots).
d)elicitation of values, rapport etc. beta -Androstenol! but need to steer (and/or give her an excuse for such intimate conversation so early on) otherwise she might feel weird about having revealed so much to you.
e)trust/safety - A314 ?
f)attraction… perhaps one should just be aware that maybe this phase can be accelerated by none/ Androstenol etc. need to provide a reason why she might feels this way otherwise regret later on ?

I think there is also probably a synergy between some of the NLP/Ross Jeffries stuff and pheromones. Likely one can induce certain states much more easily (and perhaps be bolder) with the right phero background music. (+ Tacitus’ adventures in hypothalmic modulation via coloured lights + burbling streams).

Pick a Persona Fun Fun Fun
11

I agree with what you said about that particular type of girl. But more generally you may trigger a click-whirr circuit that leads to regret - you might trigger very strong feelings and then have her run away because she is scared of them and doesn’t understand why she feels that way. Limbic brain vs neocortex.

I think one way this happens is if you have attraction without communicating enough value or establishing rapport. You have a great physical connection, but then a few days later she flakes when you call.

So you need to provide an ‘excuse’ to justify those feelings… Gosh, reading this it sounds manipulative but that’s not how I mean it.

Thoughts?

12

As far as accuracy, I meant I was hoping you’d clarify how much of the equation is #1 and how much is #2 – which one has more impact on “the equation” in your experiences?

hahaha - Dude - I’m 100% with you on that! Heck, I should probably put that in my signature. I often come back to this site, read what I’ve written previously, and think “Jeez, I hope these people realize I was only running on fumes when I wrote that…” For example, right now my eyes are burning from lack of sleep, and it’s 12 noon. I’m desperately trying not to ramble. Time for more caffeine & ephedrine…

“ONS bunnies”? What is “ONS”?

13

Oh - ONS = One Night Stand. I should have guessed that immediately. I’m not that hip to the PUA lingo.

14

Sheeeeez… what’s all this obsession with “game”… what ever happened to manners, social skills, self presentation… ? IME, pheromones have never, ever, gotten me past the introductory phase without having some back up in the form of shared interests, liking the other person’s sense of style (like there has to be a degree of mutual appreciation, if not admiration)… some form of attunement that would have existed without the pheromones… more than mind tricks it seesm like it is a function of being specific, knowing who you are, knowing how you should present yourself, knowing what environments are appropriate, knowing what you want, having some interesting, useful skills and life experineces… women do love good conversations, as in when you can tell them something they don’t already know, and better, something the other guys the know don’t already know or could figure out in less than an hour of concentrated thought… being a good conversationalist… hey, takes conversational skills (such as might be taught in a good NLP course, among other possible learnings) and a good database, you gotta actually know interesting stuff… most guys flop because they are dull, they don’t have anything to say, not because the pheromones aren’t working… I have seem many women light up for a moment in the presence of pheromones then tune out if there isn’t a stimulating follow through…

15

I think it’s not just one aspect, but the right synergy of a few. I don’t always wear androsterone/A314 based mixes. Certainly, this would be one such component, but it depends on the group and I tend to tailor my mixes to who I’ll be around. With mostly guys, I wear the “solidly masculine, maybe a hint of female” mixes. Same with hetero women. Bisexuals get a dose of cops. Younger people get mostly nol and shine. Ubercool comes from what they interpret your pheromone signature as meaning. One woman might smell female and interpret it as bisexual or gay, and another (both heterosexual women here) might interpret it as sexy male who gets a lot of intimate female attention, and she wants in! Androsterone based mixes are good, but rone itself makes one seem “beta-ish”, and women don’t tend to respect that.

I don’t know how I would say one needs to behave differently using Mystery’s model, but there’s a thread around here somewhere that suggests mixes for attract/rapport/close, and Jasmine posted ideas that I think were brilliant and quite effective.

There is certainly a synergy between hypnosis (frame building), relaxation, comfort, and pheromones.

16

That’s called buyer’s remorse. It’s why you tell her “No.” to begin with, if things are going too fast. But in my experience, I have only ever had to say no to young women who are relatively inexperienced with how fast to move. The others who click and jump in at the deep end, they’re usually so intense and focused on their goal that they do not get regret over it. They act with such force and determination that regret is very unlikely. They do exactly what they want to do, and they are unapologetic about their passionate sexuality. At least in my experience.

17

I’d say I get a situation such as in #1 maybe one time out of 250. I get a situation like #2 about once every 350 times I wear pheromones. They’re rare, but they happen.

18

So what I’m getting from your response is, you and I are saying the same things in different ways. What you said is exactly what I’m doing. :slight_smile:

19

I agree wth Gabe.

As I have said on numerous occasions, maybe the seduction stuff works in other cultures, countries etc. but try it here on EITHER sex, and you would soon find yourself on the receiving end of a “Glesgae Kiss.”

Trust me, that is NOT a good thing. Google it and you’ll see.

“The Man” does not know I wear Pheromones, but he and I have looked at every one of these well-known so-called “seduction technique Gurus” websites, and we are in total agreement, that the Scots are just FAR too savvy a bunch to ever be taken in by false, deliberate behaviour of this kind.

We just do NOT do this gumff, and if you look far enough back at my posts, I have explained in detail why it will never work here, and also why although TONS of these guys and gals want to come and speak to my students every single semester, I say “No,” every damn time.

I appreciate some of you use these techiniques and they work for you, but not here. No way. For it to work in a hard-nosed, largely cash-poor country like Scotland, the women and men would have to have both had successful Frontal lobotomies.

Scots people - especially the females, see through garbage like this from a thousand miles away, and please..let’s not even get me started on “Kino,” since I TEACH Kinesiology as it SHOULD be used, and honestly, it ain’t for seduction - trust me on that.

I see through people within about 15 seconds of meeting them, if they have an agenda, and although as I have said before, we Scots are one of the most open, and generous people you will ever come across, we do NOT suffer fools gladly, are HIGHLY cynical, and call a spade a spade.

Game = nothing in my book, but I respect the fact that some here think it does.

Give me an honest, open person any day.

Game-playing is a lot of nonsense, and often leads to unnecessary psychological warfare between the sexes.

I would much rather know the person is gen-up from the get-go, than be worrying what “ruse” he is using on me, all the time.

Fine, some of you like to play games, so do I. Mine though, do not involve me utilising anything other than my own personality and maybe a bit of a boost with pheromones, but I am what I am, and I will NEVER alter my behaviour just to get my end away.

Never.

Ail :slight_smile:

20

Ail, you’re no witch, you’re a Goddess.
But I’m tapping out of this match because at this point everyone knows everyone elses opinions on “game”, “kino”, etc. and I don’t want to 'jack Cat’s thread.