Apparently they weren’t just saying the wrong thing because they didn’t want to be different… they actually believed it.
EDIT: If this should be in the pheromone theory section or lounge (although I think this is relevant to mone research occuring on these forums) feel free to move this thread.
wow how annoying was that???
great post and thank you for sharing.
couldnt agree more here !!!
In other words, it is NOT a double blind evaluation. The bystanders still don’t know that they are being subject to the vapors but the wearer/evaluator does. Prior knowledge could taint the subjective evaluations. In fact, it probably does.
The problem I would have is that I’m unlikely to pay good money for a putative or new text mixture UNLESS I had read a positive evaluation before hand.
How can this apply to general pheromones (like -none, nol, rone?) I mean, in a way this could be the same thing to a new user who has never worn pheromones before, until now. We get some new users who apply pheromones after reading these amazing results from others who have worn the same pheromones, but then they start to complain after not getting the same results or feeling the same thing. Would this fall into the same situation?
Well… there is one aspect of human pyschology that this experiment doesn’t cover (and I would be really interested in seeing an experiment which does)
What happens when the participant comes in with SKEPTICISM of what the rest of the group says. (i.e. pre-informed that many of the participants can’t judge size properly) - That type of study would translate better onto what happens in the forums.
With established pheromones there are several reasons why a user might not see results - Lack of awareness of others reactions, a predetermined opinion of the inefficacy of the 'mones (E.G. a peer pressure from the mainstream opinion that pheromones are scams, previous experience being scammed - Pherlure), etc.
Also I find people tend to report in a biased manner where the Over-the-top hits are more predominant in the forums then anything else… I didn’t have an over-the-top hit for a LONG TIME and if I hadn’t been observant of the small hits would have probably had a very different experience.
Yes, I must admit that some people (mainly some of the new guys who post here) aren’t fully trained in how to really read up on their surroundings and people reading skills. I had this problem at first, until I started really eating up all of the useful information this forum is filled with and then finally started to REALLY pay attention. I can see how sometimes it can be hard to really get tuned in with the viewing of people, and the way they interact with you especially when stress is a daily part of life and really serves as “white noise” or “static” in making it difficult for us to see and think clearly. Once you learn to fight through this, you will start to see a pattern. Same goes with the putatives, you just have to really pay attention.
For my self, I must admit that I did read up a very little bit on P103, P123, and P102. However, with P103 I DID feel its effects and really can’t say that I’m just trying to conform to what I previously read as I REALLY do notice the P103 vision, and a feeling of just feeling “loose/relaxed.” Just like a buzz I would say, but with P123 I did not notice the negative effects from it, but then again I am not done testing that one out. And as for P102, yesterday when I tried it out with my normal mix, I couldn’t really pin point what I should have felt. And honestly, I don’t even remember what the previous P102 reports were about so I feel like I am seeing this again with blind eyes. More testing on this one to come for sure.
I am still new at testing out putatives and MX products, so I’m still trying to get into my groove with these.
User reports are extremely subjective and only valid for the user doing the reporting. 90% of the time when I use the same product I have either no results, mild results or totally different results. At this point in life I’m extremely surprised if a new product gives me any results vaguely similar to user reports. I think most forum readers are smart enough to realize the subjectiveness of anecdotal reporting and take them with a huge grain of salt. The only thing that matter is how it works for you.
As for conformity, the social urge to conform is especially powerful from childhood to young adulthood. As you get older you don’t care as much about such things. Notice a lot of middle aged men turn into lone wolf types and don’t give rat’s ass about much?
You can be observant and notice the smallest of hits but as soon as you try and write it down it suddenly appears larger than it was. That’s just the nature of language though.
I believe that is called “acquiring wisdom.”
I’d also like to see the results of that experiment taking the age/education of the participant into account…
I’d be surprised if in general age was a big factor
If there are no benefits for the tester, why would the tester use it? Besides, why would the tester spend their own money to buy a product shrouded in mystery?
When I test a new product I try to avoid reading anything at all about it. I want to see how it effects me and those around me for myslef, and without a preconceived idea of what it should do, and the extremely strong likelyhood of tainted results.
I was one of the first ones screaming that MX292 was high in Androstenone and very sexual, when everyone else was saying that it didn’t contain None and was a social product. Why? because I tested first and reported, then looked at what eveyone else was saying.
the end result is that if you read first then try, you will taint your results.
It is interesting to look over the forum history. A well respected member will report some incredible result, and then there will be a run on the product or mix. There will be a flurry of posts confirming the original report, and then the posting on the product just dies away. If the mix itself could sustain the enthusiam one would expect the good reports to continue over time.
I don’t imagine that I am immune to this effect. If nothing else social cues influence what perople pay attention to and what they are likely to report. There may be other important effects missed because they are outside the “central vision.”
The video shows a classical psychological experiment. That experiment has been around for a long time.
I see this kind of behavior from old, respected, supposedly “wise” guys in corporations all the time. An exectuive says something stupid or obviously false, a couple of his sycophants agree, and soon the vast majority of the people involved are accepting and acting on it as an obvious truth.
Perhaps one way around this would be a batch reporting methodology. MX’s or putatives would be released in batches. There would be a defined trial period in which users were asked to try the product but not report on it. Then a writeup period when they are expected to write but not post their results. The final time block would be a posting period in which the results are all posted, preferably in one thread started by a moderator. Then we could look at all the reports, and compare and contrast them. The users could also then discuss among themselves the differences and smilarities of what they observed.
The main problem with this would be the distribution of the product in the defined distribution time period. Our orders trickle in to Androtics at uncertain times and that’s when we pick up mx’s and such. Perhaps a way to address this would be to have defined test product distribution times. Perhaps during the first week of even numbered months. Then advanced users could time their orders to coincide with distribution periods.
And just as possible would be that some of the freebies that go out may contain no pheros at all. That would allow Androtics to track who’s reporting accurate results, and who’s seeing a placebo effect.
Interesting thought Mark
Just something to think about, and maybe get a few people paying a bit more attention to their reports! 
Just how closely is Big Brother watching? 
And the forum empties out as everyone runs off to start sniffing their bottles and trying to detect some sort of tell tale phero scent!
Then the forum fills up again as people rush back to edit their reports! 
I’ve actually considered forcing myself blind. I have a great number of empty to-go bottles that I have taken the labels off of and cleaned. I have considered, but haven’t gotten around to, putting non-obvious marks on some, then filling some with alchol and some with actual pheros and grabbing at random in the morning. I haven’t refined the idea very much, and I need to get rid of any way that I would be able to tell the difference. I expect this to be quite difficult, as though I am trying to do a blind test, my brain will be constantly searching for clues as to what I’m wearing. Any suggestions?
well, the other side of the coin is you have to at least leave enough of an identifier so that you can figure out what you wore that day. just cover the labels in some black tape that isn’t too sticky.