Something I observed over the past several months that concerns me a bit. Is how some reports seem to change peoples perceptions regarding products.
I remember reading about MX297 and it making you “The Man” and everyone raved about this product like it was the key to the mythic “Axe Effect” (the holy grail of mones) and I was quite eager to try it. Personally I liked 297 in a lot of ways. Mostly for it’s effect on women. Effects on males seemed harder to pin down.
However after some time experimenting and evaluating the reports myself I still consider it a great product and potentially an awesome product for pickup and seduction. Yet Steve reports that he feels that there is a bit of a beta male vibe to it. And Jas reports that they were going for a social vibe akin to the show “Friends” and now the reports seem different. Now it’s suddenly not sexual enough, or not as authoritative as the respect products like IG and A314. All of which may or may not be true, I just find it a little curious that these perceptions were missing from reports before Steve and Jas made their posts regarding AD’s intent behind the product and Steve’s perception of the products effect.
Now I don’t know if this is subconscious placebo effect where users seem more aware of subtleties that they might have missed before. Or if it’s a conscious attempt at trying to stick with herd mentality and not wanting to risk people disagreeing with you for fear of “being wrong”
Personally my own perceptions of 297 stand almost unadjusted. I find it makes women very territorial and possessive somewhat like A314 fallout but almost instant as opposed to an effect that occurs after the relationship has escalated sexually. With males it feels somewhat respectful though more in a friendly equal footing kind of way. Not beta at all imo though not quite as alpha as I’m comfortable with. Men that should be respectful simply because the time and place calls for it (such as them serving you as a customer) seem to perceive you as being so cool they have no concern acting too familiar. I still stand on this being a product that with proper game can make a woman fall head over heals for you in 30 days or less.
But back the the change in perceptions. This is of particular note for newbies. This is one of the reasons that MX’s and putatives are best reserved for more experienced users. And why a lot of experienced users are not so quick to suggest using MX’s for specific effects. They don’t have the money back guarantee that the consumer line does and you’ll note that in the store AD has neglected to leave a product description of what kind of effects the product should provide…unlike the consumer line where they give very descriptive details about what the intent behind the product was and what kind of results you might expect. Reading too much about a product that is supposed to be a blind tester can color your perceptions of it even after the fact. As I said, before the posts by Steve and Jas MX297 was being touted as such a great product you’d think that Androtics could retire the rest of the consumer line and make millions just on 297 alone…yet after Jas’s post regarding the intent, and Steve’s perception of it being beta the reports seem to almost backpedal.
So, what’s the whole point of this post? Mostly as a warning/bit of advice for new mone users.
If you want solid “guaranteed” effects, stick with the tried and true consumer line products.
If you want to become a regular reporting user that can do this long term as a hobby/interest…
Find my post on becoming a phero expert and download the report sheets+outline of what consumer products to test and in what order they’re best tested in.
Read up on what kind of effects to look for based on the core molecules.
Read up on what congruence is and how to do it with the various consumer line products.
Follow Steve’s sweet spot testing instructions and make notes both personally as well as here on what effects you notice (including similarities and differences)
Then when you have the consumer line down, then you can start focusing on putatives and MX’s, avoiding reading reports on the products before testing and make your notes blind. I can fill a bottle with pure cover scent and no mones at all but if I report that it has certain effects that can effect your expectations and perceptions to the point where you become convinced that it works like magic and think it’s the next A314 or Ammo.
Ultimately…observe, evaluate and most of all think for yourself.
Excellent post. I swear youre reading my mind sometimes , but I lack your eloquence. one of the things I’ve noticed of late is new users diving head first into the mx line before they’ve even figured out the basics because someone posted a positive report.
I also received a MX as a gift with one of my orders. Lots of people raved about it, so I was looking forward to testing it. After 5 seperate test, I got nada, zip, zero, zilch. I was told “add a spray of this, add a drop of that” still nothing. About a month later the buzz was gone and everyone had moved on to the next MX. I’ve got about a 1/4 bottle left that I still test on occasion, twice last month = nothing.
It’s interesting that you posted this as I was just thinking about this very topic today. I opted for a tried and tested method of A314 and some ammo and got more attention hits with it than I had recently. I haven’t tested much on the Putatives or mx series lately as I’ve been so busy with work and the cold really kills things.
I got some of the 297 I probably should have read the reporter restrictions etc. But I have it so I am using it. My girlfriend loves it and asks me to wear it she is a Dominican girl and says it reminds her of some spanish cologne. As far as effects on her I have no clue I am not going to ask and she will fuck my brains out before she tells me why
I actually noticed this trend while researching mx297 as well. I read pretty much every post on this board before buying it. I’ve now tried it several different times and I’m not sure I agree it makes you beta, and I have no clue about the seduction as that’s not what I’ve been going for, but I did get attacked by a girl I’m positive I could’ve taken home without even trying. She was definitely velcro’d to me and wouldn’t get off me, effectively cockblocking me from every other girl in the room.
I honestly wasn’t sold the first couple times I used mx297, but I tried it again last night because I bought it and I might as well use it. I can say it definitely works for comfort and bonding and I do get respect when I use it. It’s not the kind of “let me hold the door for you” kind of vibe I got from my first tries of a314, but it’s a friendlier but still noticeable presence. People were friendly with me, but they were clearly not willing to overstep their bounds.
I will say the one thing that does feel slightly beta about this mx is that it does indeed make me irritable and somewhat emotional as a standalone. When buffered with IH and ammo I don’t get that as much, but I certainly wouldn’t wear it in a stressful work environment which seems to be contrary to what most people are saying.
I have to take my hat off to you RAD, great post reps are warranted. I’m a newbie by any standard and I saw this herd effect and also the placebo quite soon after I started doing a little more reading in the board, in my opinion it has increased a lot in the last 2 months, specially influenced by a thread about the “AXE effect”. I think it is my age and my very deeply rooted believe that the main asset we have is ourselves that makes me very skeptic of a “magic formula”. I see pheros as a secondary tool in our arsenal to attract and deal with opposite sex, in my view it is about 5% of the package and the other 95% would be your personality, social skills and your upkeep in that order.
I am 100% with your statements and IMO this post should be nominated, I guess now I don’t feel so alone in this quest for the thruth.
In my opinion the “Axe thread” is a total joke, The majority of the poster are all newbies, They’re mostly under 21 and apparently where they live pussy falls from the sky like rain. It just seem like a bunch of guys trying to one up each other.
I think age grants older users the ability to be more objective and observant. Every couple of months someone claims to have found the "GILROY" but ther mix never quite pans out. I’ve also used some of these guaranteed mixes with no success. Of course I was the only black guy in a country western bar, but these mixes were guaranteed to get me laid right
There is a definite placebo effect afoot on a lot of these reports and I can’t say that I have NEVER been swayed by the opinions of others on a product or MX…this is why when the UF and Androstenol split test packs came out I avoided threads and still do to this day if its something I have not yet tried.
To me this is a hobby that is slowly becoming a passion and would love to see it continue to grow. I like the idea of being part of these projects that may produce the next A314 or Ammo, so with that in mind I am trying hard to do my best and give this great company back as much unbiased information as possible.
I like to know what OTHERS are saying about a P or MX. Is it that hard to then form your own opinion??? I haven’t done too much testing of P’s or MX’s to have an input on this subject nor do I read as much as I probably should. However, I never blindly follow anyone. I question everything and lots of times have to see for myself. After testing my 1st MX (mx388) and P(p130) I still have a lot to learn about testing. The way this is all set up it’s hard not to get a slight or sometimes drastic placebo effect. It’s the nature of the beast. AD does need to sell products, but like I’ve read numerous times from the AD staff is to try and limit your purchases to 1or2 so they can actually get SOME reports and I think AD knows from who and when they get solid reports. The who doesn’t mean a specific person/s either. Everyone just needs to be truthful about their testing/effects and let AD decide whats valuable and what isn’t.
I think ALL forum members need to realize that everyone isn’t here for the same purpose. Who really gives a flying f*$% if there is a post about the “AXE EFFECT”. People probably don’t like some of my posts. AGAIN who cares. This isn’t MY forum and this isn’t YOUR forum. It’s OUR forum. I think this divide that is being created is unfortunate. We all use mones for different reasons and nobodies reason is better then the next persons.
I’m not really sure this is on topic, but I had a bad night at work
Oh and GREAT post RAD… Your posts are like Christmas presents…Can’t wait to open them…Haven’t found a pair of socks yet
This has always been the case with all mixes not just MX297 but I agree lately it is more apparent then ever and frankly disturbing. Steve, Jasmin tacitus, dancing joker and a large number of others, myself included mention something about a mix and it can greatly influence people purchases as well as there reporting. That’s why we dont report a lot. Just makes me have to work that much harder to find real accurate test reports here from the new people coming in. Usually the serious testers are not fooled and stick around and the new people just looking for a quick fix will post for a while then disappear.
I think the Axe effect thread rubbed some people the wrong way. I dont think that was the intent of it though. This forum and AD has always prided itself on keeping the hype to the minimum and sharing real and reliable user experiences. The whole axe effect concept screams hyped up snake oil. If he called it any other phrase it would have been fine. Those of us who use mones on a daily bases and have for years, know there is no axe effect or gilroy effect. This is not to say the poster didnt get this effect but if he did it has more to do with him then the pheromones. You may get occasional blatant effects but pheromones are subtle by nature. The unfortunate reality is people see reference to gilroy or axe and become misinformed about what mones can do and what they cant do. When they dont get what they expect they begin to doubt not just that one poster but everyone in this forum as wel as pheromones in general. As GorMas pointed out though, its not your forum or mine its our forum. Some people are not easily led, others are and some of us do care about the new people and there pheromone experience. We want them to succeed. But it does have a direct effect on all of us in here. Its not the first time its happened and not the last that it will happen. When it does all you can do is give them the truth. Its up to them to take that truth, find there own truth or ignore it.
I think becoming a “expert user” consists of a few things. Being able to use your own mind, being able to separate the hype from the truth, being aware and observant of your own emotions and others and finally understanding that pheromones are more then just a tool to help you get laid. They do a lot more. It comes with experience and patience. I dont think there is a best order in which a person should test products other then to start at the beginning with the consumer products then work into the experimones then the single molecule putatives which are not as easy to get a good handle on. We are all different and one persons plan wont fit everyone’s needs or desires. If your serious about being a expert then you need to form your own plan and adapt that plan to other peoples needs when needed.
I think for most users, if they want to be “experts users” or serious testers, they should avoid reading reports on the single molecules as to not get influenced so much on what they do. I know this is hard to do. This is what I do sometimes to combat that. I tend to buy 3 or 4 putatives or mixes at a time or use ones I have already. Take the same color construction paper and wrap it around it and tape it. Then I mix them up and test. This way I cant have preconceived notions as to what they do because I dont know what I am using at all. You tend to be able to pick up some interesting observations this way.
AD does know where the solid reports come from. They do know how to separate the hype from the truth. Its harder for the members though and we are the ones spending money so we have to try to honestly help each other.
I made a suggestion a while back that was almost exactly like that for a skeptical new user to blind test the various products in the consumer line.
And while I’m sure that AD is observant enough to separate the wheat from the chafe reading these reports can effect the ability of newbies to grow as users. They get unrealistic expectations but they also see reports that “toe the line” with the general consensus in spite of prior reports that may have seemed contrary and it gets confusing for some people.
While AD can filter through valid reports and figure out what’s a placebo effect resulting from another persons posts, it still hurts AD in the sense that it influences other less experienced users who “test” MX’s with preconceived expectations that effect their focus when they would learn better testing blind. A larger field of blind testing users that go in with no outside opinions effecting their reports benefits both the user (for the learning experience) and AD for the growth of the testing field.
I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to take credit for your tip. Actually it wasn’t my original tip or yours LOL. It was posted in the forum way back in the 2005 by I think catlord or Marc and I tested that way since because it helped me alot and I passed it on from then on. The forum is big so the more we can pass on tips the better. We learn from someone then someone learns those same things from us and so on and so on. I am a little worried about the so on part lately though because of some of the misinformation the new people are reading. They dont seem to read anything but the posts that say what they want to hear.
I agree with you on your other point of it hurting not only the user but all of us and AD. It does effect the reports. I think its just harder for the user to separate it then it is for AD.
Great post Rad. I agree that accurate reporting is a problem here. Those who are reporting their results vary in education level, emotional maturity level, testing experience and life experience.
A few weeks ago this girl who was 4 feet away just turned around and stared at me. I immediate tried to recall which phero I sprayed that morning. then I remembered that I did not wear any pheros that day. I had to laugh at myself because I was forced to remember that I am attractive without pheros and sometimes a look is just a look.
As far as MX297 I reported that it was a good social mix with no sexual properties. I did also report that it made women friendlier. It wasn’t until another poster said that it gives a man an alpha female vibe that I realized that he hit the nail on the head.
Testing here is a cooperative effort. If 1000 testers say that the get an alpha male, CEO vibe when using A314 then it should be clear that those are the effects of that product.
I think the trouble with MX297 was the guys would get women to talk with them and be chatty but closing the deal while wearing MX297 was impossible. Alot of the testers were confusing women’s chattiness and friendliness with sexual interest.
I understand what you are saying in that reports have some influence on other peoples results but remember that’s not in all cases. It really depends on the reporting poster.
Like Tisha23 said “I think becoming a “expert user” consists of a few things. Being able to use your own mind, being able to separate the hype from the truth, being aware and observant of your own emotions and others and finally understanding that pheromones are more then just a tool to help you get laid. They do a lot more. It comes with experience and patience.”
Well the thing to remember is that while a product might have no sexual properties I would assume most but the youngest posters here were getting laid before using any mones at all. MX297 (And I mean for this thread to be more general but it’s 297/390 that made me notice the trend) has been a great product for me. Not near as alpha as A314 to be sure but I notice a more friendly respect vibe. I wasn’t getting anything feminine alpha or otherwise. Ultimately that’s neither here nor there, the main point was that the opinion of the product changed dramatically with a few posters here after Steve and Jas made their posts. Now I’m not “blaming” them, what they posted is what it is, I just found it bothersome that before even I had a chance to try it 297 was getting rave reviews, now that it’s been called the “Friends” vibe and “Alpha Female” product I see users posting that you can’t close with it. It makes me wonder if some users are even actually noticing effects or if they’re simply regurgitating what they read from more experienced users in order to sound like they know more about pheromones than they actually do.
As for the actual effects of 297, assuming the posts about it made by yourself, Steve and Jas are true, then that’s fine but if nobody can close while using it then people are relying on mones more than they should.
I may just have to mix some 297 with Instant Sexiness and Mystery Boy and go see how many F closes I can make just to remind people that while these products help they won’t grab you by the cock and guide it in for you lol.
Yes, to be honest I have not been able to f— close with any of Androtics products. I have closed many a time with Lure though.
I happen to think that MX297 is a great product for talking to women. I think that it’s a great mix for the work environment. Thinking about it now, I think MX297 is a nice first date mix if you want to take things slow.
So how much influence does Jasmine and Steve have on posters opinions? Probably alot. between the two of them they have a combined 11,500 posts. But like I said some posters are great reporters others are not.
This game Fallout 3 came out and game magazines rated it a 9 out of 10. The software had many glitches and only about 3 magazines gave the game a true and accurate rating.
That’s just the way marketing is. Hype the product and then wait for accurate ratings from a trusted source. The board trusts the opinions of Jasmine and Steve.
Steve and other posters boasted about how great MX301 was. After reading the reviews I bought it but ended up not liking it. To this day some posters will swear by it.
I feel this is the main post you’re referring to when talking about numerous people suddenly backpedaling in their praise of Mx297…
I don’t think this is true at all and you’d be hard pressed to find people who don’t like it.
This is azazel’s post from today…
And this poll’s been out for a year!! Only two people outright said no it shouldn’t be released in 30ml. Thats proof enough about this forum’s general thought’s on mx297 don’t you think?
So I must say I completely disagree with your opinion on others’ recently changed thoughts and reactions to mx297 and would like you to point out where you got your information.
I do agree however that those who find themselves swayed by what they read should refrain from reading posts before they have a chance to test the mx’s and putatives out for themselves
Well first off you’re citing threads that were started and thus replied to before Steve said it was alpha female and Jas revealed they were shooting for a friends vibe. And I never said people stopped liking it, I’m saying that after Steve and Jasmine’s posts that more users began saying it wasn’t sexual and you couldn’t close with it.
