I was on here a couple years ago when I was 17/18 years old, I got a bottle of AMMO, I found that at a very very low dose it worked ok (1/4 spray) but anything higher and I was told by women I was comming on way too strong. Even if I was progressing less than I had on previous encounters with the same people.
Very interesting, seeing as -none is the primary product it would appear that at that young age it was way too easy to OD on the -none for me.
So a couple years later just a month before my 21st (although drinking/bar age in Canada is 19 so Ive already been at the clubs for a lil while) and summers start I am getting a new pack to test out.
This time around all I got was togo products so I can test and see what works for me and how each works independantly and in mixes.
My stock is AMMO IO IH IG and IS.
Are there any particular mixes that I should try with these? Im thinking these would be a good starting point after trying each indiviually.
IO + IH
IG + IO
AMMO + IS
AMMO + IO
After that I wonder would IG + AMMO kind of cancel each other out?
What about IH + AMMO?
Then the 3+ -mone mixes I have no idea of yet, any suggestions?
All those mixes are practical in a good range of situations. To find what works best in any given situation, you just need to get out in the wild and try them.
I would expect you to find that by now, you will be able to make better use of Ammo around people your age as well as your phero profile does begin to change once you get into your twenties and the phero response/sensitivity of those around you changes apace.
If you have left Ammo on the side for a couple of years, it might just be best to go back to square one with it and start sweet spotting all over again.
Yes I think Im gonna try them all out individually and see how things go, though the little kid in me still wants all of the results now.. lol
What about the IG and AMMO mix? what would be a good way to think of that combo. From what Ive read wouldnt it take the sexuality out of the AMMO.. Would it leave a feeling somehwhat similar to A314?
I’ve started buffering any enone containing mix with 7 keto DHEA. You can buy a lifetime supply for cheap if you’re willing to dilute it yourself. A dose is about 10-60 mcg. I go for the low side of that. A-none is a good E-none replacement/additive. I’d also play with the socials a lot. and IS. And Glace.
I personally don’t much care for Ammo or A314. Ammo, especially is bad with girls I know. I really do better with a much smaller dose of enone. I’d be very careful with any hihgh enone mix. Test out how your friends respond to it before diving in. you could get a very bad response. Anger. Avoidance. Etc.
OK, so I don’t understand the differences between a-none and e-none. I was underthe impression than adrostenone (think I got that spelled right.?) was the only ‘none’ as in the stong/aggresive sexual product in ammo and a314.
I know about 7 keto as a sports supplement but what does it do as a pheromone?
And if that acts as a pheromone, then do all dhea/testosterone derivitives or steroid analogues act as pheromones?
enone is the most aggressive molecule I know of, I agree. But there are other “alpha molecules” with beneficial effects. If enone is “lets do it right now” (though it can be prosocial at really tiny doses) then A-none (dammit, this site keeps mis-autocorrecting a-none without the hyphen to androstenone) is “you’ll remember me being sexy tonight.” It has a nice morning after effect. I wouldn’t go above 5mcg with it, and .5-1mcg in a dose is a decent range for me. A-none diffuses more readily than E-none as well, which I prefer since it means you won’t have such an E-none bomb left once your androstenols evaporate away.
You can OD on A-none. It requires a cover scent. But the downside of the OD for A-none is not as bad as E-none. Most people in clubs will use Enone to A-none in a 2-1 ratio. But personally I reverse that and prefer A-none. (but I’m in a relationship and not trolling for sex.)
It’s worth noting that sometimes “interest generating” is better than “alpha.” We don’t need to get too hung up on the dominance thing.
For me, 7-Keto DHEA has the effect of making things feel less immediate (people are more likely to stop work and talk to you ) and makes me a LOT more approachable (for better and for worse. Attractive girls have started conversations with me when I was wearing the stuff with Glace, but bums have argued with me when I told them I had no money on me. Kids are more likely to talk to me as well.) The stuff is dirt cheap if you’re willing to mix it yourself. I like it a lot more than the straight DHEA they use to buffer a lot of enone based products because it doesn’t block the androgen receptor in the body like DHEA does. I suspect that matters even for mones, but I’m not certain. It may take some of the alpha out of the mix in some situations as you may guess, but it does it in a way that I’m totally okay with.
“And if that acts as a pheromone, then do all dhea/testosterone derivitives or steroid analogues act as pheromones?”
A remarkable number of androstanes have an effect, some more than others. And many non-androstane non-cholesterol derivative molecules do as well. And some of these things occur naturally in many plants, incidentally, in nanogram quantities. For example, I made a cucumber extract that gave me androstadienone like depression. Maybe I could have diluted it down further to the point that it had a beneficial effect, but the stuff hit me so hard that after two attempts to dilute I just gave up. But I’ve experimented with a lot of different molecules and a LOT of them have effects, some stronger than others. Even some that aren’t androstanes (cousins of testosterone) have an effect. Finding stuff that has a beneficial effect or learning how to use the stuff… that’s a little harder. Try googling “phenethylamine pheromone” and you’ll see some of what I’m talking about.
Obviously some molecules are better than others. And some, like neno (pregnenolone), work partially as anti-pheromones. Neno has some nice NMDA activation (related to memory.) It’s excitatory. But it blocks GABAergic activity, meaning that it counteracts some of the effects of the androstenols, androsterone, etc. So it can seriously un-buffer an alpha mix, in my personal opinion.
Some people love mixing straight nols with neno but personally I’ve given up on the stuff for now.
Wow, thats alot of info.
So to address the cucumber thing. I have heard from sources (cant remember where..) that the scent of cucumber has an arousing effect on women in general.
Is it possible and or probable that this is because of the phyto-pheromone content?
So if I am correct in assuming that it gave you depressive type symptoms because it had a high dose of androstadienone than is it safe to assume you were trying to find a suitable replacement for IFM? That is something I would definately be interested in.
Thank you for the link on the rundown of molecules as that will make this much easier for me to learn and pickup quickly. I will read it as soon as I get a decent chance to..
Just one other quesiton you said NMDA GABA and androgen receptor activity are all activated by these molecules. Is that indirectly through -mone receptors in the sense organs? and is there agonism as well as antagonism from some of these?
PEA is a genreally excitatory nuerotrasmitter and a search of it lead to information about it causing an increase in fear/social anxiety, in other words acting as an anxiogenic.
Would other nuerotransmitters also have an effect in chemosignalling a social response equivalent to their role in the nervous system? ie. GABA agonists would be anxiolytic?
I originally tried the experiment because of the work done with cucumbers and licorice that you mention, since artificial cucumber melon scent had no beneficial effect that I could see.
I get androstadienone from sources other than androtics and make my own mixes. Androstadienone is wonderful. But I wouldn’t mind a better replacement. I have no idea if the stuff in the cuke that caused the depression was androstadienone or not. magnolol/honokiol is one thing I’m trying out now when I get the chance. In the body it’s an 11beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase inhibitor just like the stuff in herbal licorice. It’s still iffy whether it works and it really doesn’t seem to have the mood elevation that androstadieone does in women. It may reduce physical distance, though. I’ve tried it twice and one of those times my wife was unusually affectionate. The other time, I think I got the dosage way wrong. Accurate dosing is a huge problem, given its low solubility.
I can tell you that 5,16 beta androstadienol seems to be a combo of alpha nol and androstadienone. That may be helpful in solving some of the diffusion problems with alpha nol for some mixes since the nols evaporate really fast.
I may have gotten some effect from tongkat ali, also. It felt like it increased testosterone pheromonally, like it’s supposed to do orally. But I need to test it more. I didn’t notice any positive effects in others the one time I tested it.
Yes, there’s agonoism as well as antagonism. I assume that most stuff works as agonists. How stuff works in the body is, at least, usually a good indicator of how it will work pheromonally, except for the fact that you have to be careful because some stuff is rapidly converted to some other chemical in the body. Pregnenolone is rapidly converted to pregnenolone sulfate, for example. That effect is relevant to how neno will impact the body if taken orally, but it doesn’t seem to be relevant to pheromonal effects. There’s not much actual neno in the body. Many mones (alpha nols, androsterone, alpha-THDOC, etc have some GABA ergic activity in the body and probably as pheromones. People who have trouble getting drunk won’t get GABAergic effects from mones either.)
The mechanism by which pheromones work is debatable. The support for a human VMO isn’t too strong. Some people point to Nerve Zero. There’s also one study I saw regarding androstenol in boars which suggested the possibility of actual absorption into the blood stream in a way that had significant neurological effects and avoided first pass metabolism by the liver. That last view is certainly the most obscure, but I think it has some support.
Really excessive levels of PEA in the brain for a long period of time can cause schizophrenia-like symptoms, kindof like how amphetamines can cause paranoia in the long term. I’ve often wondered if that was actually the biological basis for schizophrenia.
In smaller doses, I think you could get a more pro-social effect from PEA. This stuff seems to have an effect at nanogram doses and people have complained of it negating the rest of their mix. I don’t know if it’s reacting chemically or acting by some other mechanism. It is very chemically reactive, which is why just eating the stuff straight has no/little effect. Our natural MAOs rapidly degrade it. Honestly, I’ve had trouble using it.
I’ve tried straight GABA as a pheromone and didn’t personally see an effect, though others may have a different experience. For what it’s worth, taking GABA as a supplement gives me an allergic reaction and I didn’t get that allergic reaction from pheromonal GABA. I suspect that there’s some issue in terms of absorption at play… only lipophilic molecules having an effect, maybe? Cyclic molecules are more likely to work than long chains, but I’m not positive why … . Aniracetam, which is lipophilic also had a negative phenomenal-type effect, for me, for example.
