Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum and I was just thinking about starting with the A314, or maybe the instant shine. Anyways, nice to meet you all! 
Hey Revo! welcome to the forum. You’ve zeroed in on 2 of the most popular products. I love Instant Shine, it’s a great uplifter for yourself and everyone around you. I hope you’ll let us know what you think of these!
thanks! 
One question i have is, does the effect of pheromones work differently wtih different races? such as asians, or caucasians? for example, a caucasian woman finds instant shine to be attractive while a asian woman does not.
I don’t have any direct experience that would support that theory, but I’ve read about Asian women being less attracted to high levels of androstenone (which is not in Instant Shine) than other races. You can find extensive discussions of this subject complete with breakdowns into Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Filipina, etc over on the Love-Scent forum. There is a Korean guy over there named Gegogi who has made detailed observations on the subject. I think it’s been discussed here as well, mostly in regard to 'none, though. I don’t recall seeing anything about the other pheromones getting different responses from various races.
One other point is that the Androtics products are for the most part engineered to overcome many of the drawbacks of earlier, simpler pheromones formulas like Primal Instinct, NPA, The Edge, so conclusions based on the older generation of 'none products may need to be revisited using the newer ones.
Race is certainly an issue.
One of the biggest arguments to pheromones being used as a sexual attractant, is that we each have a natural pheromone signiature that is designed to attract a certain type of person. They argue that there can not be a single, cut-and dry sexual attractant that will work for everybody.
and they happen to be right
Pheromone use is something that has to be highly nuanced and matched to the context of the situations of which they will be worn. The pheromones we choose need to be appropriate for the wearer, the intended ‘targets’ and the environment. This is why you see such a vast variation in the types of mixes that we’re all coming up with. We each have different, innate pheromone signiatures, we’re each trying to attract different types of women, and we’re each wearing them in different contexts.
So what works for a caucasian male trying to attract a caucasian female, might not work for a caucasian male trying to attract an asian female…what works for an asian male attracting asian females, also might not work for a caucasian male trying to attract an asian female.
Also, as Ail mentions, not all Asians are the same. Most non-asians don’t pick up in the distinct differences between, chinese, vietnamese, filipino, etc etc. But each is both biologically and culturally very different. Each race has different standards of what is attractive or ideal, and each has a different tolerance for certain types of behvaiors/pheromone signiatures.
Im a filipino man, and I can say that my own experiences with Instant Shine, IH, IO, TUTH and Mystery Boy work on me just as described on the androtics website. This holiday season I will be in contact with a LOT more asians, and I will be able to test more pheromones (I seem to be always waiting for a shipment… anyone else like me?). (I feel like a child with his first set of oil paints, can’t wait to try out new colors on my palette)
wow a fellow filipino. cool
Hmmm. One of the distinctive things about our species is that, despite racial differences, we all can interbreed. The physical interactions of pheromones, I suspect, are identical across the races.
The social differences … at some level, everyone is a society of one. We learn what is an acceptable way of “opening up” to someone, what is an acceptable way of flirting, etc. Perhaps the statistically “normal” responses to some pheromones do differ by race – that would be an astonishing piece of research (does anyone have grant $$ they’d like me to put to use? )
I’m skeptical that our pherosignature is designed to attract one particular type of person – that sounds limiting, brittle.
We can all interbreed, but again, we all have different standards of what is attractive and what isn’t…ethnicity is highly subject to this, but also social status, age, nationality,and an endless number of different factors. Different pheromones project certain ‘images’ and it would be folly to assume that all women find the same ‘images’ attractive.
For example, there would likely be a difference between what an 18 year old female, and a 30 year old woman would find physically and emotionally attractive. They each have different standards of what is attractive, and what isn’t. This has a lot to do with why A314 is usually a bust sexually for younger guys…the serious nature of A314 can be a highly unattractive quality to a younger female.
The same is true along racial lines, albeit to a lesser extent.
I’m not arguing that pheromomes completely dictate what people are attracted to, however, we each carry an innate inclination towards certain characteristics, and the pheromones we wear can project very specific characteristics. In order to better maximize the results we have with mones, its something we all should take into account.
MarkL, you bring up some stellar points here.
We are all human, so a lot of our physiological reactions to pheromones may be the same. However, each race, each ethnicity, town, culture, coven, family, enclave, geneology, every *single ***different **human being all have a different cultural upbringing, and therefore there are millions of different ways of expressing these physiological reactions.
Anyhow, back to Revo…
Did you bring up this topic because you were interested in attracting a specific type of person? If so, who were you looking for?
This is all fascinating stuff, folks!
Revo, your welcome certificate has been sent.
Race
I’m just feeling out the idea that race, per se, plays a role in how the pheromones operate. My hypothesis is that human pheromones play a consistent role in our species, across race – that the physics and chemistry of pheromonal action ignore race.
Now, genetically, we may have programming that’s caused our bodies and brains to develop differently … and perhaps that might be related to race, but I have my doubts.
My working model is that ALL of the differences in response to pheromones is cultural and individual.
Even if, hypothetically, all women favored the same general pheromone type signiature, we also have to consider the fact that individual people produce pheromones at varying degrees. For example, the pheromone production in men will lessen as they grow older, and older men tend to benefit from high doses of androstenone than younger guys.
This is the root of the reason why we often ask posters to give a little background on their age, ethnicity, etc etc…these biological type factors can greatly affect how pheromones work.
There’s also been a general consensus amongst the asian posters on LS, that asian males produce less androstenone naturally. Both Geoggi and I (both of us being asian) were able to wear higher doses of androstenone without falling victim to the negative effects. I suppose you could also say that we had to wear more androstenone to produce the positive effects.
Given the varying degrees in natural pheromone production on ethnic lines, we have to consider that there is likely variation in how different ethnicities percieve mones. This is no different from the obvious difference in testosterone production between black/african american, white/caucasian, and asian men.
Personal experience has shown that wearing high doses of none worked really well for black and hispanic women for me, however it often caused a great deal of intimidation/awkwardness with asian women. They literally freeze up on me, making things much harder. As such, I’ve been experimenting with alternatives to androstenone, to create a strong sexual presence, without coming off as too highly threatening. MX200-201, the asian persuasian, is something I oughta try.
Race
Okay, it seems we’re using the phrase “how pheromones work” in two distinct ways.
When you mention, for example, that asian males produce less androstenone naturally I think “it could be genetic, it could be geography/climate, it could be diet” and then I fall back on “it could be that some asian males produce less X than other asian males and the focus is on the larger group rather than the subgroup”.
In other words, I have a model that says sometimes we attribute to race (obvious physical differences) that which pertains to sub-groups that may or may not be the result of race, even if those attributes are correlated to race. (The important model feature is correlated but not the result of.)
Back to the two ways we are using the phrase “how pheromones work”.
So, asian males producing lower levels of -none and supplementing them from a bottle is an example of “how pheromones work at a social / macro level.” My point was that the -none molecules produced by those asian males act chemically and physically (work) on males and females of all races in exactly the same manner because we are all the same species.
Again, my hypothesis is that all differences in responses to the chemical and physical action of any given pheromone molecule is cultural and personal. The molecular chemistry processes, I am guessing, are the same, regardless of race.
Oddly, there is also some speculation that modern humans arose simultaneously in both Africa and SE Asia (Indonesia) from a common ancestor. Perhaps we are really different but related species (sort of like the horse and zebra)?
Yeah I agree on that end. The molecular chemistry process would work in the same fashion in all humans, I would think. The differences is how these effects are percieved and recieved. As far as I can tell, there is yet to be a pheromone that directly elicits a sexual response…as in, if any woman smells it, she will be turned on. The molecules closest to having this function are copulins. In animal societies, copulins are excreted by females during times of ovulation to physically entice a male to engage in sexual activity. You literally here stories of females mammals propping their crotches against a males nose to initiate the process.
Unfortunately for us males, there is no molecule that has the direct property of eliciting a sexual response…thats how I see it any way. They merely project certain characteristic images (ie physical prowess, comforting, jovial/social) which others attribute sexual attraction to.
The hypothesis that I like best centers on the cataclysm at Mount Toba, Sumatra, about 75,000 years ago – the most recent supervolcano event on earth. The idea is that before Mt. Toba there were no “races” as distinct as today; the eruption caused the total earth population of humans to drop to about 5,000 - 15,000; the population bottleneck resulted in the intensification of genetic patterns in isolated communities – the adaptation of darker skin, for example.
That theory has humans fanning out from Africa after Toba when the climate and other factors permitted (the eruption would have created a volcanic winter for several years), to Indochina and Australia, and later to the Fertile Crescent and Middle East.
Genetic research suggests that all of us humans are descended from a gene pool population of about 1,000 to 10,000 ancestors, and genetic mutation science suggests that the “how long ago” of that ancestor group is about 75,000 years.
More at Toba catastrophe theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I’m familiar with the “bottleneck”, in fact I posted about it in the “other” forum. It was the Asian and African species that were effected by this; and by the way, I heard that the population could have gone as low as a few hundred, wiping out a number of genetic lines (and perhaps blood types?). Also, in regards to “darker skin”, the theory I like best is when our African ancestors started moving north to the higher latitudes, in order to synthesize vitamin D, the skin had to lighten to let in more sun light. Lighter skin survived, darker didn’t.
Alpha Androstenol
It just occurs to me that having all this stuff about race and Mt. Toba etc. rolling around in my head and fluxing from my fingertips might be related to the SPACELAND I was wearing yesterday.
I’m going to hypothesize that it’s still active.
Add “thread jack” to one of the potential behavioral effects – my regrets, Revo. (Despite the hint from Jasmin, heh!)
And WELCOME to you!
Don’t think it’s really a thread jack, since it addresses the speculation about the differences between Asian and other’s reactions to mones in the thread.
(of course if it really does constitute a thread jack----Sorry! 
)
lol I think we stayed on topic in regards to the original question…we just went way off on our own hypothetical little tangents
How is spaceland anyway? (ok now THAT was a thread jack)