Help the boy is passive!

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
21

Tish, thats cool, my bf has taken some fancy specialized driving school thing I forgot what it’s called.
He use to race at the local track here, but it’s a time and money consuming hobby and well I guess he chose me over that hobby lol.

MtnJim, Yes I am aware that engineers and programmers have a uhh “unique” personality. It took me awhile to realize this, but Ive been very aware of this for awhile now.
I think he is actually more “social” than others similar to him. He is also passive-aggressive and I can be as well.
He is aggressive in some ways, just not sexually. If he is comfortable in his knowledge of the environment he’s in then he has no problem speaking up. When it comes to his “bff” who is very outgoing/loud/obnoxious (at times), he becomes very passive, that frustrates me.
I met him through a meetup group type setting, so he was at least social enough to try and meet new people in a social setting (other than DnD or LAN party, not to mention youd pretty much see NO women at either occasions lol).

Diane, I know you are right and ugh that is really torture and it makes me sad, the whole situation.
The only time I went w/o any intitaion was when we were having relationship issues, so I had no interest anyway, and he knew that too so he just let it be. He didnt talk to me about the lack of sex or why or anything, just ignored the situation.
It took me doing some major shake ups to make him realize the way our relationship was, was not working.
It took me some time to open myself up again to him, eventually I did.
There were times I felt like he was smothering me. Obviously our roles have gone back to normal.
Once not long ago he made a small initiation, “hints”.
What drives me nuts is sometimes hell start some foreplay and then hell say he’s tired or whatever. He blames it on me for waiting till it’s “late” and Im like well if you really wanted to, youd say something before you thought it was “too late”, right? So whatever, dont put it on me!
So, what should I do first?
We are not living together right now, I see him on Wednesdays, and he stays over on the weekends.
I know I cant change him, you cant change anyone, but if I could some how make things better as you suggesting, changing roles, so our relationship is more balanced that would help so much.

I know there is not a one size fits all, which is kind of scary because this stuff is expensive even the travel sizes can get expensive quickly.
I just need some basics, of what I should try, two or maybe three at the most to start.

Diane thanks for seeing it, Ive known it was that way, but just not sure exactly how to change it. I thought holding back wouldnt work because I did over the summer, but the relationship wasnt in a good place either and he knew that, so why would he try if he knew Id probably reject him stone cold lol.
Yeah he’s smart…
I really dont want him coming off like a coldhearted jerk because he really isnt.

Thank you!

22

I guess the only thing I’d add, AshesBlue, is that what you are experiencing is normal. If you can see it that way, understand that a lot of people, men and women alike are in your same shoes, and get some perspective, things might go easier. I wouldn’t say, ugh about it, even though I know it feels that way to you right now. He isn’t doing any of this consciously. It is just the way the relationship waters flow when left to their own dynamics.

You might start by seeing this as a personal challenge to help the relationship grow. You can begin by not giving him any privileges he hasn’t earned or needs to re-earn - like staying at your place on the weekends. You don’t have to be nasty about it, just decide to put your needs foremost for a while. You don’t have to explain yourself, either. Just tell him you want your space in your own apartment for a while. Tell him you want to pamper yourself, or read a book or whatever. You just need to let him know that from now on you are going to put your own well being first, and that means giving yourself any kind of pampering you want.

What you don’t want to do is turn this into more pressure coming from you for him to change. So, don’t say things like, “I’m giving myself the pampering I should be getting from you,” even if it is true. He needs to be challenged, not backed into a corner. When he sees his value to you slipping, that you are no longer circling around him and instantly meeting his needs without him earning that, and he doesn’t know why, he’ll come around, if for no other reason than to find out why. Your job is to not tell him why, make him work at figuring it out.

You need to become active in meeting your own needs, making yourself the center of your attention. Do whatever it takes to make that a reality. Go shopping with some girlfriends, or by yourself. Lessen the hold he has on your attention by distraction if nothing else works. Grab some popcorn and rent a dozen movies if that’s what it takes. Turn off your phone once in a while. Be a little unpredictable. Be mysterious and flirty, but make him earn what you now give freely. Don’t withhold your love, but do withhold your attention until he earns it.

He needs to stop focusing on his needs and make your needs the focus of his attention - but he can only do that if you take a step back and give him room and time to do it. And that means getting hold of your fears the relationship won’t survive this change in dynamic. If it can’t stand this little change, if you truly think he is the kind of slug who likes tormenting you and keeping you in this uncomfortable place, then what are you doing with him anyway.

Relationships dynamics that are lopsided like this always work to reduce one kind of anxiety for another. But the trade-off is stagnation. So, look at your own fears of abandonment, or anxiety at being alone, or your need to be needed to have value, get a handle on them and take a deep breath. Everything will be fine. You deserve better, you know that. Change is always like taking a first flight, scary as hell, but awesome and powerful also.

Diane

23

Well I know what you are saying, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, I have been in relationships like this.
My bf does give me attention, he still open all doors for me, sounds silly but there are a lot of guys who dont do this.
He treats me really well, sometimes bendsoverbackwards. He has had a taste of what it is like to be w/o me. I actually did live w/him for a year, w/my son and we moved out because I couldnt stand the situation anymore.
However, things are much better. We even for awhile did have him not stay over night, but things got better and it was something we both wanted again.
When we first met, he did all the driving, he lives in the city, while I live on the outskirts about 30mins away. Then as time went by I started to do a lot of not most of the driving, this again has changed.
He does all the driving most of the time. I usually only go to his place if Im already going to the city for something else.
I think telling him I dont want him staying over on the weekends would be too much at this point, and I dont think Id be able to explain it so “lightly”, he’d think something was really wrong.
I think if I just held back on the intiation of sex would be suffice and if not then I could change the plan.
Im starting to admit that him having pure aggression for sex is probably not possible, it’s not his nature, it’s not just because Im catering to all his needs, this is just how he is, but I think we could work on the intiation for sex. I know this could go deeper, but this is where I want to start.
I know he has let me “in” emotionally much further than he has w/anyone hes every had a relationship with. I know things about him that no one else knows.
Im not trying to rationalize things at all here.

And yes I know I do have issues w/abandonment, it’s something Ive struggled w/for a really long time. But I think Ive gotten stronger, because if I hadnt Id still be miserable living w/him pretending like everything was fine.
I do not feel like we are stagnate, I felt that way about 6months ago, but I did take steps, I really was ready to thrown in the towel. he knew that and he woke up. Im trying to add to what we have.

Now I feel like Im defending him, myself and our relationship, ugh.

24

I should add that he has never been aggressive or initiated sex, so it’s not something that recently happened, because he’s taking me for granted (which I dont think is the case).
I have been in relationships where this was the case, that they lost interest because they knew Id always be there.
This relationship is not that.

If he had inititated sex early on and then changed I could see that more of a prospect. Most guys are usually aggressive to some degree early on in the “lala land of early relationship”, but not him.
Am I making any sense?

25

Yes. You make perfect sense. He has to be good for you in many ways or you wouldn’t care. And I didn’t mean to state or imply that I think you are catering to his every need.

But it was getting him to initiate sex that you want? Have you tried keeping everything else the same and just not initiating? What happens when you don’t initiate? How long have you waited before initiating? (Not when you were having problems with the relationship, but since then?)

Diane

26

Hmm I think at the most it was two weeks, sometimes stuff happens, like all of us were sick and then the next I was on my period, and well that’s not always a “sexy” thing lol and I also wasnt really in the mood anyway, just kinda meh.
It’s not like Im humping his leg 24/7 or anything.
Also if he says something stupid or whatever that I consider a turnoff then that will make me not interested at all lol.
So it’s a combo of how Im feeling both emotionally and hormonally.
Either one can snap me “out of it”. Im guessing that’s normal for women.
Yet sometimes I feel like a slave to my hormones, I know for a fact that when he’s getting more attention from me it’s cuz Im mostly likely ovulating.
Anyway, he didnt seem to be too bothered by the two weeks.
Once I got really mad at him because he basically rejected me and he felt really bad about it, and made it up to me the following night. :smiley:
So he has potential.
Most guys have walls and intimacy issues but I think because of his “genius/geek/computerengineer” he is really a “special case”. Guys like him are really hard to explain until you experience them yourself.
We or should I say I lol waited several months before we had sex. I think it was about 3 months or so, we also waited because we wanted to have sex because we had real feelings for eachother, ie falling in love. We didnt want sex to cloud our perception or have it be “just sex”. ahhh so sweet haha.
He didnt seem to mind that at all.
Im use to guys being at least a bit aggressive to a full on “get off of me before I punch your sorry ass”, so Glenn (the bf) really stumped me and through me for a loop.

We both know I have fear of abandonment issues, and he’s really never done anything to majorly push those buttons like other guys have, I mean he doesnt take advantage of that knowledge.
I wont say he hasnt gotten complacent at times, but I cant say I havent either.
But something does need to change, like I said I know I cant change him, I cant turn him into fabio (eww not that Id want to, hes gross, but you get the picture).
Just give me a lil help or just anything lol.

27

The pheromones will definitely help. But if he truly is just a low-sexed critter, that is just who he is. As far as I know there is no pheromone discovered to date for humans that is an aphrodisiac.

I’ve played with quite a few putatives and some of them have some interesting characteristics.

P83 is reported by some users to have forward momentum in this regard. But some users (myself included) find it has a bit of a nasty, pissy side.

P80 is another, but be careful using that one. Some men become just a tad too aggressive with it. I use pretty high doses of P80 in my sensuality mixes, but always balanced with a high dose of EST.

TAF is another that has been reported in a few cases to lend itself to physical desire, but it doesn’t have that characteristic in all cases, and is mostly reported to have motivational and attentional characteristics.

P93 ramps up desire in some men. Most people find it has better uses as a motivator and recruiting pheromone for chores.

P79 has been reported to ramp up desire in men by some users. But it is a wild-card and can take you at lightning speed where you least expect it.

P90 has been reported by some to have nice physical qualities for men. For me it was extremely physically motivating for chores, almost OCD-like.

Copulins have been reported in the literature to raise men’s testosterone levels and increase desire. Hopefully Androtics will have a viable Cops formula for us soon.

Androstenone can give a push in the right direction, sometimes, especially when combined with Cops. But it has the very real potential for overdose. Overdose can cause extreme anxiety in you, and cause extreme irritability. I’ve used TUTH, Androstenone, and Edge Gel packs, with unpredictable, mixed results. For my husband and myself (we are both 48) we’ve OD’d more than not, even trying to use low dose and be careful with it Androstenone.

Androsterone has been reported by some male users to give them a nice slow burn sensuality. You might try giving him A314 and convince him to wear it.

Diane

28

While Diane has given you some interesting advice, I think with holding initiating sex would do more damage then good.

Relationships are work there is no two ways about it. Usually as Diane mentioned one partner works a little harder then the other and takes the lead, the aggressive role. We all assume it should be the males role but in many relationships its not. Since he has always been this way perhaps your BF just has a submissive personality and needs for you to take that lead. It doesn’t mean he is not interested or doesn’t love you. Playing games and trying to manipulate him by not initiating and pretending nothing is different will just push him away and bring out feelings of discomfort and inadequacy intimately. It will be the beginning of building a wall between the two of you and once that wall is erected its hard to bring it down. It wont change who he is or how he thinks about sex.

While most men are the aggressor in the relationship and women have the passive traits that doesn’t mean something is wrong that should be changed when men have those passive traits. Talk to most men in relationships who are in the aggressive role and many will feel the same way you do. They wish there partners would initiate more. You don’t withhold initiation to attempt to change that persons personality. Your discover and enhance what influences his sex drive more. If you do withhold they remain passive because this is where there comfort zone is. They can also start to question their worth and in the relationship. You need to gently influence him to move out of his comfort zone.

Except that you have different roles in this relationship and don’t try to change those roles but enhance them, influence them, improve them and meet on a common ground where your both more comfortable.

Open honest communication is important and it seems you have that. Reinforcing your needs to him is important, then working productively on this together is key. He seems to want to please you which is good.

Remember its not you, He is who he is. Mones wont change who he is but they will enhance the relationship in many ways including sexually. While pheromones are not a aphrodisiac they do bring about feelings of arousal and desire and can be a tool for both of you to help you reach a more common ground.

Work on other sexual cues together as well. Signals that you have discussed and he is aware of, that indicate you are in the mood and need for him to initiate. Hell it could be wearing a certain pair of jammies. Tell him when you wear them you want him to initiate and take the lead and ask him if he will do this for you. Like I said he seems to want to please you and just may need more obvious cues to be comfortable stepping into the role as aggressor. After a while he will become more comfortable in the role. He will not change totally because he is who he is but he will meet you on a more common ground.

Pheromonally skip the putatives for now and work with the main stream products. Get used to them first. My situation is a bit different even though I began using mones to make him more interested in sex. He was always the aggressive one until he got older and life became more stressful. There are putatives which Diane has listed for you that can enhance the sexual response. We dont agree on P83. P83 has made very few people cranky when you look at the data as a whole. Something like 1 of 500 testers may feel negative mood turns with it. Testing is conducted outside of the forum as well. Its great for lowering inhibitions. P80 worn by the male can cause more aggression in them but like I said start with the main streams and we can work our way to the others if your interested in going that way.

Tisha

29

Although there is logic behind Diane’s reasoning, Tisha’s approach is how I would like it handled if it were me.
However to be honest I’m not exactly the passive type once the go ahead is given.

30

Taking things to the male side for a second ( I know, it’s always about us, isn’t it!:open_mouth:) After doing things right, Instant Honesty, communication etc and seeing improvements, I decided that things hadn’t come on far enough and started to withdraw, no longer tried to initiate anything and, whilst she initiated sex for the first time in over a year, I felt guilty and didn’t enjoy things nearly as much as I should have. I get the distinct impression ( and have yet to pluck up the courage to talk to her about it) that this has set our healing process back a little.

Whilst I appreciate that everyone’s situation is different and I certainly value Diane’s opinion ( who couldn’t, look at her posts for God’s sake), if your situation is in any way similar to mine, I would re-iterate Tisha’s comments below and ask that you burn them into your memory :wink:

31

I just wanted to second what Diamond said about Tisha’s comments.

I really believe, based on what you have said, that he really just simply doesn’t understand the need for him to be more aggressive. Think about it this way, he was probably raised to treat women with honour and respect. If he was not involved in male dominated activities growing up and was not exposed to a strong OPEN male role model, chances are he’s never gotten the message that treating a lady right and treating a lady right in the bedroom can be two different things. If you love him and if you want to work this out to both of your benefit, you are simply going to have to be open and upfront about your needs. That means GUY OPEN, flash cards, diagrams, coffee, snacks ect. :slight_smile: At the same time you need to be sensitive to his beliefs.

One last idea. Write out a fantasy. Steal it from a trashy romance novel if you aren’t a good writer. Set up a date to act it out and give it to him for Valentine’s Day. Yes it’s a little contrived and it may even feel that way when you do it, but sometimes we guys have to “fake it till we make it.” Have Fun!

32

Relationship dynamics serve specific purposes. They protect your self image emotionally and protect you from feeling anxiety around specific issues. They provide stability. The relationship may be happy for one person, and miserable for the other, but it is stable.

When one person in a relationship gets so unhappy that somethings gotta give, but everything seems impossible without destroying what you have, it is called gridlock - between a rock and a hard place, with no way out no matter what you try. Gridlock is different for each couple. But no matter what the gridlock issue is, whether sex or something else, it always feels the same - too much pressure and something’s gotta give.

Some relationships stay in gridlock for years, decades even. Some relationships end when gridlock hits. And some relationships change and grow, using gridlock as the impetus. From what AshesBlue has shared, she may very well be in gridlock.

I appreciate everyone’s feelings around what I’ve said, and I’m not surprised at the responses. I never intended to imply a fast fix or that it would be easy. Nothing about changing a dynamic, especially a long standing dynamic, is easy or without resistance - from both partners. But, here’s the part I really appreciate from all of you guys and your responses: You can’t change one part of a relationship dynamic without the entire structure of the relationship changing… and that can feel like a huge threat to the relationship, and to you personally.

And along comes Diane, giving words of advice to AshesBlue to stop initiating and focus on herself if she wants her guy to initiate more. And it feels like a personal attack, doesn’t it?

Diamond, it reminded you of how uncomfortable it can be even when you get what you want. You think you set your healing back by feeling guilty over waiting for her to initiate. Maybe you are still feeling guilty about it. Maybe you feel that AshesBlue stopping initiating and waiting for her guy to initiate might be even be emotionally damaging to him. (Here’s a couple of questions for you. I don’t need a response, just something to think about. What would it be like for you if you had felt elated rather than guilty around this? What would be different if you had felt joy at her initiating and shared that with her?)

Tisha thinks I’m a conniver and disrespectful of men, manipulative, even.

Both Tish and Renny want AshesBlue to be even more understanding and accepting than she already has been. Renny wants AshesBlue to take her guy by the hand and go through a diagram! AshesBlue has already given so much, taken the lead always, and they both believe the answer is for her to keep taking the lead, don’t rock the boat, and just try harder. Only AshesBlue knows for sure, but from what she has written, it seems she’s already tried this route.

Holding a high bar for a partner’s behavior towards you is respectful to both yourself and your partner. But to do it you have to have respect for yourself and be willing to be honest with yourself about what it is you are willing and not willing to endure, and brave enough to risk what you have for what you want. There are areas where I’m not brave enough in my own relationship to risk what I have. I think that is true of everyone, so it’s not an indictment of anyone.

Only AshesBlue knows what she values in her relationship, what she wants to see improved, and what she risks, where she is brave, and where she is not. But one thing is certain, whatever her feelings are they are valid for her, just as yours are valid for you and and mine are valid for me.

But here are some truths that hold across the board. The low sex partner controls the amount and level of intimacy (not just sex!) in the relationship, and generally wants things to remain as they are, and resists change. The high sex partner wants change, wants more intimacy, and is frustrated in most attempts to change the situation. Any real, concerted attempt to change the dynamic will throw the underlying issues out into the open, and those can be very uncomfortable to work through, but necessary if the level of intimacy in the relationship is to grow.

Diane

33

Well, I won’t presume to speak or interpret Tisha23 but for my part Diane you are exactly right. As a recovering “nice guy” myself, I don’t think some women understand the confusion that the last 2 to 4 generations of sexual revolution has created in the average guy’s mind.

I am assuming that Amber’s beau is an intelligent guy who loves Amber and only wants to make her happy. I am also assuming that Amber feels the same way for him. All I’m really suggesting is that she takes the fact that he is a guy into account. I once had a girlfriend who expected me to know that when she had pink sheets on her bed it meant she needed it bad. I found that out when she broke up with me and dumped all the stuff that had been frustrating her with our relationship. To tell the truth I never noticed what color the sheets were. Mine are always white so I don’t have to worry what color the bedspread is and so I can use bleach when I wash them. I don’t think that makes me defective, just a guy.

I just want to make sure Amber’s beau finds out about the pink sheets before the relationship becomes intolerable to her.

34

Alrighty, Im back!
Thanks for all your responses, they are all very interesting to me! I like the back and forth.
I think Im somewhere in the middle between what Tish/Diamond/Renny have said and what Diane has said.
Partly because I have been doing what Tish and others have said, I am one of the most sensitive person’s when it comes to my bf’s emotional state. Not to say I cant be selfish, because I know I can lol, but when it comes to where his head and heart at in a deeper level, I absolutely consider that.

I have tried so hard to express myself to him, how I really need him to show at least a tiny bit of initiation. Like I said I dont expect Fabio, Tarzan or Valentino in the bedroom.
I have also tried to find out why he might be this way, childhood experiences, his family environment, bad sexual experiences, anything and everything, to no avail.
Just because he hasnt told me about these doesnt mean they arent there. There are things about his upbringing, that I know could have affected the way he feels about sex. I also know he has had one night stands, and he even told me he didnt “count those” as sexual partners. Im like huh? That makes no sense to me lol. It’s denial anyway you cut it.
Now, I in no way judge him on his amount of partners, only about how he was not honest w/me or himself about the amount of partners.
It’s hard to know when one doesnt tell you things.

I have tried to bring down my walls, partially in a sense of solidarity, to show him Ive done it for him and he can trust me.
Early on I think I just kept hoping he’d open up and w/that, would feel more comfortable and then be more apt to initiating. This did not happen, so then finally I had to be more specific in my communication and actually talking about sex. Which honestly is not always ok ever easy to do, especially when there is an issue.

As Ive stated before, the last thing I want to do is hurt him, but at the same time I deserve to have him know how I feel. It’s a delicate balancing act. Just by me trying so hard to communicate w/not only words but actions, is also me coming out of my comfort zone and “changing” the way I usually have had to deal w/things.
I do believe a compromise is fair.
As Ive said he is trying, and I just want to encourage that.

I dont want to always be the one to initiate, this is not news to him, he knows this.
So it’s not like Im just hitting him over the head w/this.
I dont think there is anything wrong w/doing things to encourage him to try and intitate, to come out of his comfort zone a little bit, to compromise.
I am not about playing head games and watching my man suffer.

I do think women in the past have picked up on his sexual passivity and reacted as such, but as you see they are not w/him anymore, I am.

So, to some extent he is use to being w/aggressive women and I think in some ways subconsciously have seeked out these women. So yes in some ways it is what he is use to, partly because it is naturally his nature but also because he has found mates who have fed into that, at least for awhile. You might say he sought out these partners, because of his passivity, then again this is also what he’s use to so why change?

I can and am agressive when it comes to sex, but I have never been in a relationship where I was always expected to be the aggressor and really was never “given the chance” to always be the aggressor. I have been turned down by partners in the past lol. As in the guy was actually not in the mood, the nerve! lol jk Did it suck? YES! Did I survive? Obviously.
I know all too well that yes typcially it is the male that is the aggressor and us women are the ones to say “oh no sir that is dirty, what kinda woman do you take me for!?” (bats eyelashes lol). Ok it’s not always exactly like that, but it can be.

I think Glenn does have some potential, in that some of it is psychological, past experiences, and somewhat hormonal. I dont expect him to do a 180, but just a lil tweaking would help both of us. I love him enough to do all that I can to try and make both of us happy. I do think he would be happier too, though he might not see that, because this requires change.

Ok this is a lot of info, probably way more than you wanted to know lol.

35

Ok Renny Im laughing here but not at you, the whole pink sheet thing. :confused:
I mean really? Im a chick/woman and there’s no way I wouldve picked up on that either?!? I mean I could see if she told you at some point in your relationship that this was your cue, like Trish suggested w/the PJ’s.
But for you to know that, well thats just beyond comprehension.
No one should have to deal w/that.

I am not like that at all lol. Then Id feel sorry for my bf.
As far as my sheets? They never match my bedspread, if they are clean at the time they are put on the bed, thats good enough for me.
Meh, Im lazy like that. :o
I dont have any undercover hints like that w/my bf.
My hints are physical, ie touching parts of his body in an obvious way, that even in a man in a coma would understand.

I was watching “The Mentalist” last night and the main character was at a suspects house and she asked if he wanted to search her house for evidence. He said no, because there was too much stuff to have to sift through, that it was messy and he didnt want to deal w/it (and also because he probably didnt think she was really a suspect lol).
But then he said, “Dont feel bad often messy women make the best lovers.”
I was like well finally something good about me being messy! haha.
This really has nothing to do w/anything lol.

36

Thanks for sharing that story, Renny. What do you think it all meant? Why do you think she couldn’t just come out and say something like, “Fuck me hard, lover!”? Why pink sheets? LOL. I guess in the end it was easier to dump it all on you and make you the bad guy because she couldn’t face the fact that she couldn’t state what she wanted and trust she’d get it.

I remember once, when my husband and I were first married, and he didn’t seem to be getting any of my signals… So one day, I came up behind his chair. He had the chair leaned back, his feet up, and his hands behind his head, all comfy watching some tv show. I leaned over to that my hair was tickling his cheek, and whispered in his ear, “Hey! Wanna fuck?” You’d have thought a bomb went off he sat bolt upright so fast. He turned around and looked at me with this wide-eyed, shocked expression on his face. I just stood there grinning, raising my eyebrows. He immediately got up, grabbed my wrist and dragged me into the bedroom. :smiley:

Before I did this I had to steel myself, and I was afraid. It was like, “OMG! What if he says, no? Or worse, what if he ignores me? What if he gets mad? What if he thinks less of me for talking this way?” I’d never said anything like this to him before, or been this bold.

Ya… about the defective comment… I changed it to clarify. But, yeah, sometimes you have to be blunt.

Also there are things that I do that he really likes. I use those as bargaining chips. It has become a game between us. One is home-made Chicken Noodle Soup. He’d kill for it. So, when he asks me to make some, I agree, but only if he promises to “be nice” to me later. He’s always agreed without hesitation.

All the time I’m in the kitchen making the soup, he’s popping in to complain about how long it’s taking, while copping a feel, a quick kiss to my neck, and I chase him out of the kitchen and complain about never being left in peace. Over dinner the flirting continues, sometimes blatant if he wants to embarrass the kids, sometimes not so blatant. It is all in fun.

Now both of us know that we don’t need to set up bargaining chips for intimate encounters. But the little game adds a bit of anticipation and spices it up a little. Spontaneous passion can be da bomb, but planning ahead by both of us gives us time to build tension and desire.

In this way we both initiated. I initiated the agreement and let him know what I expect, and he follows through by initiating when we go to bed. But this is possible only because he agrees to play the game, take some responsibility for his own game play, and put some energy and effort into it, and keeps a good humor about all of it.

If he got offended by me making that demand in exchange for what I do for him, or tried to guilt trip me into getting what he wants without giving anything in return it would be a whole nuther story. And we’d be banging heads instead of the headboard.

Oh, and imagine the dissapointment if he failed to initiate after I held up my side of the bargain… unbearable. The choice then would be black or white, wouldn’t it? That would be about the most blatant slap in the face I could imagine. But it would carry some truth about him, wouldn’t it?

Oh, in case you haven’t gotten it yet, my husband is the low sex drive partner in our marriage! :stuck_out_tongue:

Diane

37

Diane I dont not why you believe I think your a conniver and disrespectful of men. I never said any of those things about you and I would appreciate if you didn’t put words in my mouth. Every time I have a different opinion from yours you take it as a attack. I have the same right as anyone else to give advice and my opinion. Don’t presume you know me or what I am thinking because I guarantee you, you don’t.

Tisha

38

Hey Amber, we may drift around in threads like this and have differing opinions and what not but we really are like a big weird family and only want the best for each other. I hope the pheromones are all it takes to put the umph you want into your relationship. The main point is you are trying. That’s always a good sign. Good luck to you and your guy.

39

Ha I understand Renny, I think it’s good that people feel comfortable enough to express their feelings even and especially if they are different..
How else can we learn right?
It’s all good!
Anyone else have some suggestions?
I am enjoying this a lot!
Tomorrow is my birthday, so we are going out on Thursday instead of today. He would have come over tonight too, but I told him he really didnt have to, that’s a lot of driving!
So we are going to meet up w/a new group of people at a bar where they play pool.
Something he’s very good at, I basically suck so I wont be touching that stick!
It’s really embarassing just how bad I am lol.
The going out w/a group is something we havent done in a long time, so it should be interesting.
Then probably go out to eat, we might go back to his place (that sounds so cliche and cheesy.), so well see.
He’s taking Friday off too so he doesnt have to worry about waking up early to go to work, so it should be fun.

40

I have to say this is a common issue, my girlfriend has the same problem, 2 years after she started dating her boyfriend and moved in, the sex life dropped off a bit and he played the shy role, my approach to her issue was a tad different though helpful, as that was before my complete discovery of pheros and there effect on me and the people around me.

What has been the best ‘cover’ of cops? And if I may be a newb, how do you all do the mixing with cops and cover fragrance?