how do you know you've OD'd? it's all about congruence..

[smoothplayer]

nbully posted something that brought me to a new idea about the whole OD concept. as some of you may know already, I’m quite fascinated with the OD experience and what it means, how it happens, etc.

Today may have well been an OD. i got the ‘disgusted looks’ from far away, etc. but I didn’t care about them. I didn’t pay much attention even though all signs, such as the total intimidation of coworkers and strangers, all pointed to an OD.

still, i got on with my day and tried to forget that I was even wearing 'mones. which, i didn’t even put any on today, it was just residue from lots of ammunition this past week.

the thing is, nbully asked if OD is the effect of what happens to the phero-user. I think so. because i feel like the times that i have “OD’d” are often times that i can’t handle to be congruent with the strong phero signature I’m giving off.

in other words, today, I took the lead in most situations and tried my best to be congruent with it. i felt a lot less hostility and much more respect / friendliness than before.

how do you guys know if you have OD’d or not, if you just go out and forget about the pheromones?

at this point, I think the “OD” is more about the user, and not everyone else. I don’t think the phero smell can be detected as easily as some say. when I see disgusted looks, I think it is that they are becoming suddenly overcome with anger / confusion, not a horrid smell. because a smell can’t travel that far, and it’s just not logical.

so, i think if you can be congruent with the signature you put out, there is no such thing as an OD. if you put out an aggressive vibe and try to rush through the day without engaging people that much (whether it’s lack of time or you’re just tired), you’ll come off awkward or you’ll think you OD’d, and then your subsequent reactions will emphasize that whole incongruence.

Another thing is something that brozie mentioned in the theory forum. My sense of smell also (like his) becomes super strong when i’m wearing 'mones, maybe in part because i’m trying to see if i smell or not. but i can literally smell food from 1/2 a mile away, and it makes me feel like some ferocious caveman. i think the ‘smell’ that people sense is not my pheromone but actually it’s their sense of smell also heightening when i’m around so they can suddenly smell all these different things. either that, or the whole nose rubbing thing is a subconcious body language sign that i am not yet familiar with, that probably signals discomfort. because i see people touching their noses a lot, for example today, but people were still gathering around me, and telling me all sorts of jokes and I laughed so much today it was insane.

so anyway, that’s my take on the whole OD thing. OD doesn’t really make sense if you know how to handle it.

[toilofday]

so, i think if you can be congruent with the signature you put out, there is no such thing as an OD. if you put out an aggressive vibe and try to rush through the day without engaging people that much (whether it’s lack of time or you’re just tired), you’ll come off awkward or you’ll think you OD’d, and then your subsequent reactions will emphasize that whole incongruence.

I think you are right on the money for the most part. Tacitus posted this reply in his thread High performance communication: a 650 mu megadose of MEO-EST and putatives

@tacitus

Ummmm… there’s a lot of backstory on this usage… probably too damn intense for the noobie ot the intermediate user… for some reason I do fine with gobs o’ pheromones, except maybe to much androstenone or androstadienol unless it is heavily buffered… I think this is like the difference between driving a Formula 1 car and a nice street legal Beemer… because of my extensive, and ongoing acting training I am used to maintaining unusually high levels of social and conversational concentration, and being in “head spaces” that would be strange, uncomfortable, too freaking intimate, whatever… so there is a long development of background emotional/communication and self regualtion skill that allows one to function easily in extreme psychological states, over time these have come to seem/feel/operate as completely natural to me… this might not be true (at all) , just like the beginner actor stands in front of a group of people and is paralysed with stage fright… because pheromones foster powerful states of connection and real communication, the kind that you gain large strides in emotional growth from, they also entail being able to go to places of emotional nakedness, risk, truthfulness, and real intimacy that might be completely foreign to John Q. Regular Guy… which always returns me to the belief that pheromones and emotional skill are intertwined things… the use of pheromones CAN be part of the process that lead one to places of much higher emotional intelligence… I suppose in the hands of a emotionally limited, neurotic, rigid, or highly suspicious personality, these dose ranges might seem like having all of one’s defenses removed before one was prepared… but the discomfort is psychological, although many psychological issues present themselfs as physiologic… so one might report tension, or tightness, or any number of autonomic-bodily sensations that are, in reality, emotional in orignin…

If you can maintain congruency with the amount of pheromones you will be ok, but their is a limit for every individual that no matter how much you try or in Tacitus case, train, you won’t be able to keep up. That’s when the ghost effect will come in to play. I am not an agressive person, plus i’m type O so if I wear -none it has to be an almost non existant amount. Tacitus is smooth enough to pull of very high doses and even major od’s for most people. I am sure though there is a level that even Tacitus would get the ghost effect from.

It has also been said that if you go past the ghost effect levels people’s subconcious will just ignor it all together. It’s like cooking octopus. Time it right and it comes out tender. A little to much and it’s chewy, but if you keep cooking it for an extended period it will become tender once again even though at this point you’ve damaged your fine quizine’s integrity.

[toilofday]

Oh, I also feel there is such thing as a situational OD. What you wear at a club could be fine, but put it on somewhere else where you can’t act congruent due to societal standards and you can OD at the same level.

[Gegogi]

Today may have well been an OD. i got the ‘disgusted looks’ from far away, etc. but I didn’t care about them.

Methinks you need a lot more info to make that decision than a “disgusted looks’ from far.” People walk around with their thoughts, wearing their emotions on their faces. Just because you happened to be in their line of sight when they thought of their ex-BF or smelled a dead rat doesn’t an OD make. Plus pheromone molecules don’t travel at the speed of light, so reactions from afar take plenty of time even if your subject is downwind.

As far as conforming to normative expections, whether those of society or your pheromone signature, I think that little theory is really overrated. Sure, sometimes it works and is helpful. On the other hand, I’m a soft spoken, gentle and mellow looking Asian guy. They call me the little buddha. Nevertheless I can, at a moment’s notice, be an extremely aggressive and demanding cutthroat when I need or want to be. Not congruent with my persona but highly effective when needed. I find the element of surprise highly effective with my competitors or enemies. If they expected me to be an badass they’d be ready for me…

Also, I can nearly bathe in androstenone with little or no ill effects. It does have the unfortunate side effect of making many women horny. I’m probably naturally androstenone deficient. However I suspect the ability to control my persona helps tremendously to quiet the typical negative side effects of androstenone.

Incidentally, when you get an OD, you’ll know. People normally pleasant will largely ignore you, be indifferent, hostile or simply be uncomfortable around you.

[sigma]

An OD is simply a pheromone signal taken to an excessive level. It isn’t always a severely damaging situation, nor will it necessarily cause severely damaging reactions. I think this severe connotation we attach to OD’ing comes from the effects people have seen with androstenone, but truthfully, you can OD on just about anything. I’ve seen evidence of OD’ing with just about every pheromone I’ve tried, and it wasn’t always a bad thing either…just more than I was looking for.

Pheromone use is all about finding balance. To put things in a really simplified perspective, anytime you wear a particular pheromone, you’ll wind up at one of three effects.

1. You don’t wear enough

The effects aren’t pronounced enough…you see no effects

2. You wear just the right amount

Jackpot!

3. You wear too much

The effects are excessive. You get more of the effect than you would like.

Take alphanol for example. At a moderate dose it works well at opening people up and making them feel socially at ease…works wonders on the wearer too. At at higher dose, I start to see overly ‘goofy’, chatty type of effects from the people around me, and myself. Ironically alphanol OD’s are usually enjoyable at the moment, I’ll only think its excessive after looking at it in retrospect. Its simply too much of a good thing.

We more readily attribute ODing to androstenone, however, because androstenone OD’s can be much more of a problem. The same concept still applies though.

Androstenone has an inherently masculine/aggressive nature to it…this is what makes it so appealing to women as a sexual pheromone. It projects a strong physical presence. All an androstenone OD really is though, is that same masculine/aggressive ‘vibe’ taken to an excessive level.

@smoothplayer

so, i think if you can be congruent with the signature you put out, there is no such thing as an OD. if you put out an aggressive vibe and try to rush through the day without engaging people that much (whether it’s lack of time or you’re just tired), you’ll come off awkward or you’ll think you OD’d, and then your subsequent reactions will emphasize that whole incongruence.

True you can ‘own up’ to the pheromone signiature you put out and try to present yourself in a manner that is congruent to the pheromones you put out…but this isn’t always a good thing. Androstenone can put out a highly aggressive, intimidating vibe. It usually isn’t in your best interests to try to live up to and be congruent to that type of pheromone signal. I can think of quite a few people who seem to personify an androstenone OD without having ever used pheromones…they usually aren’t well liked.

On the flipside, others argue that you can live past an androstenone OD by carrying yourself in a less aggressive, more opening fashion. Honestly when you hit that OD range with androstenone, this is much easier said than done, but it is doable. I just think its inefficient to wear such an excessive amount of any pheromone and try to work past the negative effects. Its simply more effort on your part.

Pheromones work best when they seemlessly weave into your natural personality…how you would normally carry yourself. Anything that seems to stand out too much, or causes you to deviate too much from how you normally carry yourself could be considered an OD.

[Dragonslayer]

Its like if u do use Turn Up The Heat or even Ammo, that has androstenone in it, it is better to counter it out with like Instant Shine or Instant Honesty, it should turn it down alittle bit. Like i plan i using 2 sprays of ammo with 1 spray instant shine and instant female magic if i go to like a party, but if i am going out, i would use 1 spray of ammo and 1 spray of instant shine. I believe that will show the best results now everybody is different so u have to experiment to find the right amount of pheromones, u might have to go with half sprays to find what is perfect for u.

[Lor]

i think an OD is a little more than just being congruent. if someone is swimming in 'none and pulling off the persona, thats not going to change me physically reacting to what high amts of 'none do to me, like make irrate,short tempered,edgy,and just plain agressive.
no amount of owning up to the dose will help.
so an OD is suspected when more people than not react negatively to your scent if you ask me.
there will always be people who genuinely appreciate that higher amount… i think there was talk about specific personalities/nationalities being drawn to high doses.
im over the ovulating theory. i agree with it 99% but theres still that percent that whether im ovulating or not,you stink.

[MarkL]

@smoothplayer

nbully posted something that brought me to a new idea about the whole OD concept.

All right! This is an area where we can all learn something new, I suspect.

@smoothplayer

… as some of you may know already, I’m quite fascinated with the OD experience and what it means, how it happens, etc.

Today may have well been an OD. i got the ‘disgusted looks’ from far away,

Perhaps it was your facial expression, demeanor, posture, gait … and even perhaps seeing you (at a distance) subtly twitch your nose … or perhaps the depth of your breathing that triggered an unconcsious “smell the air” response.

This same phenomenon has happened to me as well, and I agree that pheromones do not travel upwind. Nor do they travel through glass walls, etc.

However, we can’t discount our imaginative contribution – sometimes it might just be someone passing by a dead rat.

@smoothplayer

… etc. but I didn’t care about them. I didn’t pay much attention even though all signs, such as the total intimidation of coworkers and strangers, all pointed to an OD.

still, i got on with my day and tried to forget that I was even wearing 'pheromones. which, i didn’t even put any on today, it was just residue from lots of ammunition this past week.

So – what observable behaviors lead you to the conclusion that people were intimidated?

@smoothplayer

…

the thing is, nbully asked if OD is the effect of what happens to the phero-user. I think so. because i feel like the times that i have “OD’d” are often times that i can’t handle to be congruent with the strong phero signature I’m giving off.

I submit that one part of OD is internal, one part external. Those parts are not necessarily ever equal.

A small amount of pheros can be “too much” for me if I am tired – too much to live up to if I am meeting people.

@smoothplayer

…
in other words, today, I took the lead in most situations and tried my best to be congruent with it. i felt a lot less hostility and much more respect / friendliness than before.

how do you guys know if you have OD’d or not, if you just go out and forget about the pheromones?

at this point, I think the “OD” is more about the user, and not everyone else. I don’t think the phero smell can be detected as easily as some say. when I see disgusted looks, I think it is that they are becoming suddenly overcome with anger / confusion, not a horrid smell. because a smell can’t travel that far, and it’s just not logical.

It’s worth playing with the idea, and seeing where it goes; but I would give it time to mature, stretch. I’m not ready to conclude that OD is “mostly in the mind of the pherouser”, although I think self-effect of a high dose contributes to the experience…

@smoothplayer

… so, i think if you can be congruent with the signature you put out, there is no such thing as an OD. if you put out an aggressive vibe and try to rush through the day without engaging people that much (whether it’s lack of time or you’re just tired), you’ll come off awkward or you’ll think you OD’d, and then your subsequent reactions will emphasize that whole incongruence.

Another thing is something that brozie mentioned in the theory forum. My sense of smell also (like his) becomes super strong when i’m wearing 'pheromones, maybe in part because i’m trying to see if i smell or not. but i can literally smell food from 1/2 a mile away, and it makes me feel like some ferocious caveman. i think the ‘smell’ that people sense is not my pheromone but actually it’s their sense of smell also heightening when i’m around so they can suddenly smell all these different things. either that, or the whole nose rubbing thing is a subconcious body language sign that i am not yet familiar with, that probably signals discomfort. because i see people touching their noses a lot, for example today, but people were still gathering around me, and telling me all sorts of jokes and I laughed so much today it was insane.

so anyway, that’s my take on the whole OD thing. OD doesn’t really make sense if you know how to handle it.

I hope you keep fiddling with this aspect of OD; I think it’s inspired. I’d say you’re onto a good thing, but it still seems a little raw to me.