My reasoning: Self control=good in bed and good in a crisis.
The good in bed part is pretty obvious (hard to get tantric or taoist or esoteric or kinky without self control). The good in a crisis part: if a guy pees his pants just because I give him a “look,” how likely is it that he can protect me from someone who is truly dangerous?
While self-control is important should you also care what your partner wants and thinks as long as you don’t go overboard? In addition there is something to be said for ethusiasm. Would you want a guy who seems detached when having sex, or would you want a guy who is into it?
and here’s my reply… ive heard this from 2 or 3 HBs I’ve clubbed with… I’ve candidly asked what kind of guy they want and received the following: a jerk for a one-nighter/hook-up but a nice guy for a relationship.. neither of which should be a limp noodle
… these were in club settings and the girls were intoxicated but seems valid
This is how I believe you should treat a woman:
Don’t lie to them
Don’t cheat
Treat them with respect
Don’t betray her trust if it is given to you
Defend her her honor and good name when it is questioned, if you care for her
These are some of the principles I live by. In short I believe in doing the honorable thing, and taking resposibility for your actions.
I think a woman should be treated as a human being, as well as I expect a woman to treat me as a human being. Those who manipulate get manipulated. That’s karma. Manipulation happens on both sides of the fence, and so that’s how the story goes. I will not take shit from anybody, including women. That doesn’t mean I will resort to physical violence, though – I do not believe in physically hitting a woman for any reason, unless it’s a life threatening situation. I honestly think that PUAs aim for women who play the game. If a woman goes for nice guys, then I really don’t think they are on the scene. I think they respectively understand human nature, which is a rarity for anybody nowadays, especially in America.
I’ve noticed that women generally do not like men without a backbone nor a jackass. Think about it, guys… do you like women who are scared to look you in the eye or are too bitchy to acknowledge your existence? No. These traits automatically lower their value in your own eyes. Both are signs of low self-esteem, and lack of self-confidence. Albeit, there are a select few who go for lower-value girls, and I think that’s because they are a victim themselves of low esteem and confidence. Now, whenever I use the term “lower-value”, I do not mean literal value. In other words, I do not believe anybody is better than me, nor do I believe that I am better than anybody else. It means that these people know who they are, and know where they are going as opposed to those who are simply lost. These are my observations of others as I am probably the worst off in the self-value category. One thing about myself is the fact that I do not give a fuck about what anybody else thinks about me – only what I think about myself. When I work out my “inner-game” issues, then my interaction with women will follow as my nature will improve with everybody. If you aren’t happy with yourself, then you will not be happy around others, and this will in turn be reflected right back onto you.
So, in essence, how do I think a woman should be treated? Look at yourself, and see what you’re doing wrong. Fix all of those flaws, and then treat the women you want with the same respect you just gave yourself. It really is that simple. Of course, the simplicity of fixing yourself is quite complex.
It’s a pitty you decided to get all emotionally out of shape because of the word wussy and ignored PheroQuirk’s very good advice. By the way, getting upset because you thought someone called you wussy and then saying someone might get ‘slapped’…nah I won’t go there, too easy.
Just a random aside, how many girls do you think are all that concerned with being what society has deemed “a lady” when dealing with guys? At a lot of bars I would be forced to conclude that a primary part of being a “lady” is trying to sucker guys into paying for their drinks. (In case you didn’t know this, DO NOT DO THIS.)
Once again, a MUCH better way of putting this: This is how I believe you should treat a person:
Don’t lie to them
Don’t cheat
Treat them with respect
Don’t betray their trust if it is given to you
The frame you project is women are so radically different and must be treated with kid gloves at all times because I am not worthy to be in their divine presence. Translation? “Nice guy” doing exactly what he has been socially brain washed to do: put pussy on a pedestal. Break free of bad programming designed to control you. You may not realize it right now, but it is better for you, and it is better for her.
By the way, David Deida is worth reading just for his very different viewpoint on things. Not to mention he was where I first learned that men can also have multiple orgasms. So yeah, worth a read.
While these qualities are true, and I live by them myself…these qualities alone will not make a woman attracted to you. In fact these qualities in excess, can in fact come off as a DLV, especially if your ‘game’ is led by these qualities alone. This is where ‘good guys’ get stuck becoming ‘nice guys’. Your most attractive qualities should never be how good you are to a woman. Women are attracted to men who can stimulate them emotionally, socially, intellectually, and most importantly, sexually. What a woman wants from a man is an experience that affects her in a significant way. She will not be attracted to you just because you respect her and treat her well, if she doesn’t feel stimulated (affected) by you…there needs to be a spark. Ideally a woman would feel stimulated (attracted to) by someone who knows how to treat a woman well, but we all know of situations where women were unattracted to men who would have treated them well. On that note we all know women who were attracted to someone who treated them quite badly.
Women feel stimulated by men who lead everything with confidence, who have a socially and emotionally strong presence…who not only give them something to work for, but put them in a position to want to work for it. Assholes just happen to carry these types of characteristics inherently, and many women like it. The downside to leading your ‘game’ with good guy qualities alone, is that they often diminish the characteristics that women find enticing. A solid ‘game’ to me, dances a line between giving a woman an experience that affects her, and knowing how to treat her well…it dances a line between the asshole and the good guy. Thinking that women will only like assholes and living by that mentality is a sign of weakness, but so is leading exclusively with ‘good guy’ characteristics. A solid game projects a sense that you know how to treat a woman well, without being needy, and while projecting the characteristics that women will find stimulating, enticing…attractive.
It seems you are seeking validation for the way you chose to live your life.
Since you affirm that you like to treat women with respect, and demonstrate that you do not extend respect or gentlemanly conduct to men, perhaps you would get more validation in the women’s forum.
Nonsense, he isn’t actively ignoring guys, he would probably love guys responses. But those responses are only welcome if they validate his existing nice guy beliefs.
If he had posted at just about any other forum, he would have gotten the validation he craves. Strangely he picked this one, one that has a much higher ratio of guys with a better understanding of male/female dynamics than the usual crap that is culturally brain washed into people. He didn’t get the validation he wanted, but if he follows some of the links provided (pheroquirk and rollercoaster) he would get some information he needed.
Oh yeah, because I forgot earlier, maybe I just hear this more often being deep in the heart of America’s bible belt, but a great response I have found to the “a gentleman would…” doormat/nonsense is:
“Gentle?! You think I’m gentle? Trust me, there is NOTHING gentle about me” - end with wolfish grin/smirk. Puts an end to the request, halts the “I have a pussy, do my bidding” mentality at some bars, and ramps up sexual tension. What’s not to love?
appreciating that there is no answer… life isn’t a formula, it can’t be lived well with formulas. I’ve checked out a ludicrous array of gurus, I mean, up close and personal, paid big bucks for access, ran questions, tried to get the deep-dope-skinny on life… my life lesson out of all that…
if it sounds like a recipe, it is a recipe, and a recipe will always give you the same chicken pot pie…
Plenty of people want, crave, desire a fixed set of rules… and in a percentage of life’s situations, you need some rules… a few of them really do matter, like “what goes around, comes around”… and “lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas”…
Every situation is diffferent. Even the same place is a different place on a different night. Every place and every situation will have an organic vibe, the natural energy of the moment. You have to be attuned to that sense of moment. What sounds brilliant in one energy state sounds moronic in another energy state or just flat in yet another… so stay tuned to the shifting energies…
Genuine is better than canned. Even the best chefs have to resort to canned ingredients in a pinch. The best chef can make canned taste pretty good. However, if you have something distinct and fresh about you, its like simple food well made beats a complicated production made from stale ingredients…
A friend who is my age called me and told me about an exam he’s being trying to pass but he thinks he’s too old…
I told him the only age that matters is how you feel inside really…
If you want for instance to improve yourself in behaviour, etc, you need to decide what steps to take to arrive at your desired destination… but you must want to get there…
I think this advice can be applied generally to many situations..
Tacitus, I happen to wholeheartedly agree with you on this. It is far better to have the ability to flow and not rely on formulas. To be honest the only reason I check up on this forum is catch up on your posts as well as MHarris (not that he posts much nowdays ). But I do think that in this case it is more important to realize that not everyone starts out at the same place as others. Having read so much of what you write, you come from almost a different plane of existence. I think it is far too easy to just say be unstructured, or an equivalent “just be yourself” when you ARE at that level, but others are NOT. So much of this is for people who are not to integrate this thinking or behaving so they do rise to a higher level. Yes there is always the danger for some to stop, to stunt their growth, relying on nothing but formulas. But it does give a better way of improving someone’s life, something that “just be yourself” has never done.
It reminds me of some of the prominent people that were preaching very structured game started switching over to very flexible, more natural game. They started declaring, “Hey guys it really is as simple as just be yourself.” They mistook their “great” revelation for the fact that what they had been following had become integrated and they had rising to a better level, a level where these formulas were no longer needed.
I just want to point out one thing, and I really believe this is why so few women are capable of progressing behind the knee jerk emotional “game = bad” reaction, and that is very few women are capable of understanding the world view of a lot of guys. It is so outside of their own reality it cannot be imagined. Allow me to demonstrate:
There’s a reason that I have been kind of a dick in this thread, I have BEEN THIS GUY. I wish I had had a pheroquirk or a rollercoaster come out of no where and point me in a better direction. I did not know a better direction existed, I didn’t know any guys there were really good with women and add on top of the usual bad social conditioning a religious background where anything short of kissing a woman’s ass was to also be considered a sin against god.
Think about that quote, his only world views that exist are: 1. wussy nice guy, 2. treat women like you don’t care about them, or 3. treat them bad. Not good options. But for the most part the only options society has given him. This is why I get annoyed when women have their emotional reactions and simply denouce all things as “bad.” Most women will never ever have come from such a place, and thus not really qualified to denounce them.
Sure people get caught up in what I would consider more low level arguments about mystery method versus juggler versus other flavor of the month, but FAR more importantly is to look at this more abstractly. And abstractly, the purpose of the community is to show that instead of just 3 limited world views, there in fact exists an entire continuum.
<-nice wussy guy----------------------------------------------------treat bad->
And to help arrive at a more optimal middle point that is best for everyone.
I started out with something very structured like mystery method. That was fine. With a head full of bad programming I NEEDED a very structured approach. Now I can just be me. Why? Because that structured approach allowed me to transform myself into a far more attractive me. I would merely ask that you not forget that the primary goal in an area such as this is not abandon formulas and become this or that, but instead that the primary goal should always be continual self improvement. And if some need a more structured approach in order to improve, not be so quick to denounce them as they try to improve their lives.
). But I do think that in this case it is more important to realize that not everyone starts out at the same place as others. Having read so much of what you write, you come from almost a different plane of existence. I think it is far too easy to just say be unstructured, or an equivalent “just be yourself” when you ARE at that level, but others are NOT. So much of this is for people who are not to integrate this thinking or behaving so they do rise to a higher level. Yes there is always the danger for some to stop, to stunt their growth, relying on nothing but formulas. But it does give a better way of improving someone’s life, something that “just be yourself” has never done.